Cycle infrastructure planned for south Dublin

bazermc · 20-03-2022 2:51pm

No comment on this one.

AndrewJRenko · 20-03-2022 9:12pm

Consultation on Roebuck Road changes closing on Tuesday

https://dlrcoco.citizenspace.com/transportation/traffic-road-safety-roebuck-road-cycle-route-goats/

CramCycle · 21-03-2022 7:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118811309#Comment_118811309

Dear lord no, prepare for the rollercoaster with driveways. They have actually done a half decent job already, just stick with more permanent bollards to stop parking the length of the road. And cut off the speedway from Clonskeagh road and from Fosters Avenue, job done

Seth Brundle · 09-05-2022 10:54pm

Here we go again...

https://twitter.com/CatzStocker/status/1523746994220457984?t=XeSTUkbRVxrAsyV5KH9wNg&s=19

Thelonious Monk · 09-05-2022 11:37pm

Brilliant, at least it keeps us entertained. Not a chance of it ever happening though in my opinion so a total waste of time really, fair play to them for trying though.

09-05-2022 11:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119038907#Comment_119038907

Excellent.

I said it when all this kicked off before that blocking that trial would either result in it being challenged by the council in the courts or legislation would be drafted to specifically allow for such trials to occur.

Delighted to see not one, but both of those taking place.

End result will be bike lanes on that stretch, just delayed due to the silliness

buffalo · 10-05-2022 11:38am

Some fantastic submissions on this piece of infrastructure in Greenhills/Perrystown: https://consult.sdublincoco.ie/en/node/8371/submissions

Someone obviously started a campaign of misinformation and FUD - quite a few objections to the bollards and cycle lanes on a couple of roads where the plan is just to paint some giant bicycle symbols. One submission objecting to a road not even included in the scheme. However, the comments are telling:

Placing poles along my road means, I wont be able to get out of my driveway and see up the road for oncoming traffic.

I can't see past the plastic wands! And the school children? How dare they use a residential road to cycle to school! Let them play with the traffic!

They go to School on Limekiln Road and hamper every other driver cycling 3 a breast at slow speeds. Let them get used to cycling on main roads instead of using my road as a rat run when it suits them.

I love the faux concern too:

The surface of Fernhill Road and Mountdown Park are cracked and uneven therefore unsafe for cyclists.

There are speed bumps on Fernhill Road and Mountdown Park which are unsafe for inexperienced cyclists.

Larbre34 · 10-05-2022 1:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119039088#Comment_119039088

Not just time. A total waste of your money and mine, on a fools errand.

DaCor, you're living in dreamland. The whole premise for the cycle lane trial, Covid mobility measures, has passed.

The statutory instrument for the trials was supposed to be enacted as a regulation (stroke of the Ministers pen) in Sept 2021 and yet it wasn't, and then was supposed to appear as an amendment to primary legislation in tandem with the variable speed limits and the eScooters and yet it wasn't and yet both of those issues have been progressed under separate Bills. Have you not asked yourself, where the Trials Bill has disappeared to and why?

10-05-2022 3:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119040787#Comment_119040787

It's hardly a fools errand, Justice Meenan had a novel interpretation of what constitutes a 'road development' and what scale of 'road development' requires an EIA. He also had a novel interpretation of what requires an EIA vis-a-vis the habitats directive.

He overruled/disregarded the primary legislation contained in the Public Transportation Regulation Act, 2009, and displayed a seeming bout of dementia in stating that residents having to travel south for 1 kilometre before turning north was the council somehow suggesting that residents should walk or cycle to the Airport.

"The judge also noted that Brendan O’Brien. the council’s head of technical services, environment and transportation, had stated the reduction of traffic on Strand Road and the provision of a safe two-way cycle route would mean residents and business owners in the area could travel northbound by walking, cycling or other modes of transport allowed on the cycleway.

This would seem to suggest that residents and other persons in the affected roads, should they wish to go to Dublin Airport, would have to either walk or cycle”, the judge said."

Can you provide any evidence as to why you believe appealing a high court decision that had a novel interpretation of several areas in respect of 'road development'/EIAs, and that disregarded primary legislation is 'a total waste of money on a fools of errand' given that this high court decision has ramifications for projects across all of Ireland?

Larbre34 · 10-05-2022 4:15pm

I'm definitely not the one who needs to provide evidence here, the written judgement speaks for itself.

You've convinced yourself a High Court interpretation was novel and that the Judge is demented!

I'm saying neither of those assertions are true and that the Judgement came out more or less as I expected it would when the challenge was lodged.

I suppose if the Court of Appeal finds against the City Council too, you'll be coming on here telling us that the three judges are mad, bad and dangerous to know.

Viscount Aggro · 10-05-2022 4:21pm

How do you deal with someone filming you on your cycle trip.

There's a woman in Ranelagh doing this daily, posting it online.

Larbre34 · 10-05-2022 4:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119041830#Comment_119041830

Filming or photographing someone or something in the public realm is not against the law.

However, if you believe there is an intention to harass, intimidate or abuse in any way, by their actions, gather your own evidence of this and report it to the Gardaí.

Ben D Bus · 10-05-2022 4:30pm

Dress for the destination and look happy on your bike? Set a positive example 🙂

10-05-2022 4:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119041802#Comment_119041802

Yes, the written judgement that is being appealed.

Your logic seems to be "an appeal is a waste of time because the judgement it's appealing was made in the first place", which is obviously stupid. Extrapolating that further, your belief is that all appeals are a fools errand and a waste of money. So, how is it that appeals are often successful, and why does an appeals system even exist?

I also said he displayed a 'seeming bout of dementia' in portraying residents having to drive a short distance south before driving northbound = the council taking the attitude that residents should walk or cycle to the airport. Please explain how his claim was rational if you disagree with this characterisation, rather than making a hyperbolic statement about how I'll claim 'all three Court of Appeal Judges are mad, bad and dangerous to know'.

If the Justice Meenan's ruling didn't have several novel aspects of it, please cite the previous cases that addressed the Public Transportation Regulation Act, 2009 / 'what constitutes a 'road development' and what scale of 'road development' requires an EIA and separately how 'any road development' requires an EIA vis-a-vis the habitats directive'?

If you can't do that, why are you claiming that there is nothing novel in his judgement on these issues given you are tacitly admitting that you are ignorant on this topic?

Your reply had nothing of substance. Please offer substance when making claims or assertions. You are quite literally just typing out your thoughts as if thoughts are a replacement for evidence, knowledge or insight.

Fian · 10-05-2022 4:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119041830#Comment_119041830

Is she back? she went kind of viral before covid doing exactly that, lots of kids started deliberately aggravating her so they could post the reactions on tiktok. My kids showed them to me. She posts her videos on tik tok too, along with fairly odd commentary. Especially if she perceives someone is breaking the rules. She recorded me a few times on my commute.

She does not tend to be taken very seriously and iIthink she probably needs help more than anything else.

Viscount Aggro · 10-05-2022 4:47pm

She's not harmless, and she's not nuts either.

I asked her to stop filming me.

She read me the law, and gave me a mouthful of abuse.

I know where she works.. some govt. Dept, so point in complaining to employer.

10-05-2022 4:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119040787#Comment_119040787

DaCor, you're living in dreamland. The whole premise for the cycle lane trial, Covid mobility measures, has passed.

Covid kick-started a lot of measures as there was a sudden lack of car users, but they were needed before it and are needed after it. Covid or no covid, protected infrastructure is needed along that stretch and many others.

The statutory instrument for the trials was supposed to be enacted as a regulation (stroke of the Ministers pen) in Sept 2021 and yet it wasn't, and then was supposed to appear as an amendment to primary legislation in tandem with the variable speed limits and the eScooters and yet it wasn't and yet both of those issues have been progressed under separate Bills. Have you not asked yourself, where the Trials Bill has disappeared to and why?

Nope, it'll be done when its done, I'm patient. Its coming, just a matter of when.

Announced in Feb

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/eda6d-government-approves-amendments-to-road-traffic-and-roads-bill-2021/

The last bit of it states

Separately the Minister intends to use regulations and guidelines to allow local authorities progress experimental traffic management schemes that promote active travel throughout the country.

So as I said, just a matter of when

This all feeds into the National Sustainable Mobility Policy, launched in April. Principle 1 of that policy is focused on Safe and Green Mobility with the number 1 goal listed under that being "Improve mobility safety."

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/848df-national-sustainable-mobility-policy/

There's a lot more to come on this

Larbre34 · 10-05-2022 5:20pm

Yeah sure man.

He's been intending to use his powers in this area for ten month now, and yet nothing. Regulations and guidelines? All sounds a bit weak willed and mealy mouthed to me.

Does it not concern you how open to challenge such impotent measures would be compared to primary legislation? Ryan really has backpedalled (no pun intended) from his forthright stance on the matter when the Judgement was originally handed down last summer.

And do you know why he has? Because just like turf and distributor roads in Limerick, whenever he gets too big for his boots, the backbenchers of his partner Parties in Government remind him what a weak position he is in politically, and that if he pushes trivial matters too far and precipitates an election, it'll be his Party that disappears off the map, not their's.

If FF and FG don't deliver on the NSMP, the voters won't give a monkey's, because it's a luxury, a frivolity. The only thing on the minds of the electorate are inflation, housing and healthcare. Even voters with climate change at the heart of their thinking know the NSMP is only tinkering and that real change is down to renewable energy, reduced consumption in the built environment and agricultural technology and offsetting measures, those being 70% of the ball game.

Ryan may be stupid, but he's not stupid enough to sign his own political death warrant.

10-05-2022 5:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119042102#Comment_119042102

Primary legislation was successfully challenged in the Sandymount scheme we were just discussing. Namely, Public Transportation Regulation Act, 2009. Which I have already mentioned.

Yet here you are waffling on (incorrectly) about how Ministerial orders are more open to challenge than primary legislation.

If you had any knowledge of how the Irish legal system works, you would be aware that the overwhelming majority of Irish legislation are Statutory Instruments rather than Bills (primary legislation), e.g.:

"In 2020, there were 32 Acts of the Oireachtas signed into law, and 760 Statutory Instruments."

I accused you of being someone who just carelessly throws out opinions without any actual insight, knowledge or evidence and you immediately prove me to be correct.

The only difference in how SIs and Acts are treated by the courts is that SIs are open to being struck down by being outside of the scope of a Minister's legal authority. That's it.

Please stop spoofing.

10-05-2022 7:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119042102#Comment_119042102

Guess we'll have to wait and see but I'm pretty confident.

You're not, cool, c'est la vie

Effects · 11-05-2022 10:14am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119041830#Comment_119041830

I thought she had switched to harassing car drivers since she came out of retirement?

Macy0161 · 11-05-2022 11:07am

I'm not a legal expert (like many on here I imagine!), but it would be remiss of DCC not to appeal such a far reaching judgement. Active travel and a move away from cars isn't a Government policy that is going to disappear with a change of Government or rising sea levels in Sandymount...

Larbre34 · 11-05-2022 2:26pm

I can tell you that what the residents of Sandymount want, is the long vaunted flood protection berm or wall with coastal cycleway integrated into it and for everything else to be left the hell alone.

I appreciate that that's not exactly consistent with the provision of a city wide network of any sort, but the City Council would be naive to think the money is not there to tie this up in legal knots for ten years, if that's what it takes.

11-05-2022 2:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119046452#Comment_119046452

Thankfully NIMBYism and fear of change are not what dictate progress, they delay it from time to time, sure, but they rarely stop it

Weepsie · 11-05-2022 4:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119046452#Comment_119046452

Some of the residents want, yet some want the changes and plenty more in surrounding areas too.

You have to stop talking in absolutes as if you talk for everyone

Larbre34 · 11-05-2022 5:49pm

I don't talk for everyone, only those with the resources to make an impact.

But that aside, it was clear that a majority of Sandymount, Ringsend and Irishtown residents were against the Council's plan, let's have no revisionism on that one. The public consultation fora might have allowed input from all over the Country, but when it came to direct contact and the feeling on the doorsteps, the local public reps were under absolutely no illusion which side their bread was buttered on.

Larbre34 · 11-05-2022 5:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119046709#Comment_119046709

Apart from when they do.

Your definition of progress isn't universally accepted, of course.

Weepsie · 11-05-2022 7:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119047495#Comment_119047495

It wasn't a majority that took any action. It was a well heeled few. Stop talking in absolutes that are nothing but complete bollocks if you can't back it up.

We have one person from a local residents group make the claim, but there's no data backing it up. We have data from the consultation process that shows a majority does back it. People in the area backed it too

And remember it was hevaily pushed by a councillor who is hanging in there by a thread, in a Burrough that has lumped on the green vote.

12-05-2022 12:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119047495#Comment_119047495

More claims!

Can you please provide evidence for:

a) That a clear majority of Sandymount, Ringsend and Irishtown residents were against the Council's plan

b) The basis for you claiming to know exactly what local residents want

c) That residents can 'tie this scheme up in legal knots for a decade', given the CoA is about to start hearing the appeal and the only further legal venue is an appeal to the Supreme Court? Please do bear in mind that an appeal from the CoA to the SC is available only under very narrow circumstances. Even if the SC accepts an appeal and refers aspects of it to the CJEU, that has never taken 'ten years' from start to finish. Current casetimes for the Court of Justice are approx. 18months start to finish.

Do remember, words have meanings: 'evidence' does not mean "run away from your claims and pretend you didn't make them" nor does it mean "re-state your opinions saying that they are obviously true". You have been challenged multiple times on specific claims you have made and thus far, you have given exactly zero answers. 0. To anyone.

Why are you on a discussion board if your approach is not to discuss, but to instead state inane, incorrect and false opinions endlessly even when confronted with evidence to the contrary?

Macy0161 · 12-05-2022 9:29am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119047495#Comment_119047495

Infrastructure is not just for the immediate residents - it is for the anyone who uses, or would potentially use, the infrastructure. Much like Deansgrange, residents should have a say, and not a veto. They are not the only ones affected by the (lack of) infrastructure.

Cycle infrastructure planned for south Dublin

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