Discovery 3x04 - 'Forgot Me Not' **Spoilers Within**

corkie

Star Trek Discovery Season 3 Episode 4 - 'Forgot Me Not'.

Sorry AMKC, just posting before duplicates start to appear.

TheValeyard

Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight!

liamtech

I sound like a broken record no doubt

A Poor Episode - same complaints as last week.

Contrived story, the Trill would undoubtedly have records of Riker Joining. Of all species in star trek, the Trill would be the least possibile xenophobic, and yet they reacted in an almost comical display of outrage. The whole season is badly contrived imho

The only decent scene was when the Trill regained her memories

If this were any other show i would have fast forwarded the entire meal scene

Summing up - about on par with last week, but a very weak season thus far. When compared to season one (intrigued to see where the show was going), and season 2 (the sphere, the red angel, everything starting to develop), this is weakest season of discovery so far

All my opinion of course, next week looks interesting (to a point)

corkie

Trill ~ Host + symbionts

corkie wrote: »

"However, Riker's body begins to deteriorate due to the incompatibility of different biologies."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Host_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation)

In the years that have past the Trill may have developed medicine that overcomes that limitation. Or 'Adira' may have been more compatible?

It will be maybe explained next week:- Next Episode have us visiting Trill Home-world.

^^^ Cross Thread quote.


"Viewers have generally taken this to indicate Trill symbionts cannot join with humans without significant risk, but the truth may be a little more complex. It's important to remember less than half the Trill themselves are actually compatible with the symbionts, and thus there's no reason to assume the same is not true with humans as well. While Riker was not compatible, that does not mean there are no other humans who can join with a symbiont. Even if he is in fact the rule, there can quite easily be exceptions to it."
^^^ [screenrant] Star Trek Discovery Theory: How A Human Can Be A Trill Host

liamtech wrote: »

Contrived story, the Trill would undoubtedly have records of Riker Joining.

A temporary unsuccessful host over centuries ago, and given the guard nature of 'symbionts' that incident maybe have been suppressed at the time.

Disappointed that

'Gray' is not a proper fleshed out character, but just 'symbionts' memories/ghost.

Spear

I liked it overall. There's still criticisms though, again it follows the same template as the last few episodes of intruding on an unhappy equilibrium, and fixing it while paying lip service to federation ideals.

But at least there's finally some significant screen time for the rest of the crew. Including some surprisingly dark moments when Detmer cracks. It's good to finally see some past threads from her, and the sphere being followed upon. It even raises the possibility of Calypso still coming true.

Slydice

Ah that was a good episode!

I think the airing of views at the dinner might have been more beneficial than not.
I was Ooohhh, ah right when Detmer said her bit. For a second I was starting to think they might have been doing a long term Time Paradox with her.

Got really hyped when the Generation Ship was mentioned! Still an Enterprise possibility!
Some really cool Star Trek III vibes at the ending with Adira kinda like Spock.

Then the ship. The ship is started to sound like the Short Treks ship.

Goodshape

Much better!


SPOILERS BELOW FOR THIS EPP. We don't need spoiler tags for the episode in this thread, do we?


There was still too much standing around talking about the plot and how that makes everyone feel, but I was actually pretty invested in the rest of it.

Trill was good; proper Star Trek planet stuff. Enjoyed that. I think I like the (two) new Trill characters too.

The dinner scene was fine.

Burnham was fine. Wish they'd stop literally telling us how much she has changed and just get on with her being a better character. There did seem to be a bit of that better character on display once she got to the planet surface.

Definitely nice to be seeing more of the crew, and just having less INTENSE DISCUSSIONS and DRAMATIC STANDING.

So I've enjoyed episodes 2 and 4. Next weeks preview looked like it might annoy me again, but we'll have to wait and see.

corkie

^^^ Spoilers until it airs for people on Netflix tomorrow morning.
But I don't think people who want to watch it will read here before watching?

Started the thread, once i knew it was available, but had not watched at that stage.

Quite thread today, was starting to worry we had lost people's interest in the show?

Goodshape

corkie wrote: »

But I don't think people who want to watch it will read here before watching?

Yeah I'd consider these to be post-episode discussions and wouldn't open them myself until I've seen the episode. Unmasking spoiler tags in every post gets a bit annoying.

Speculation and discussion of future epsiodes should still be spoilered imo.

Quite thread today, was starting to worry we had lost people's interest in the show?

I think most are just better people and watch on Netflix tomorrow.

CastorTroy

I keep forgetting it's on Netflix tomorrow.

Before the idea for dinner came up, I was thinking apart from Tilly people on this rarely interact without talking about work. Imagine Voyager if we didn't have the interactions between The Doctor and Seven or even them with others on the ship. Or Paris and Kim, even. And same with the other series.
This crew seems like when you only talk to ones in the office about work and even jokes are work related.
I know we have shorter season than previous shows, but I wouldn't mind seeing them interact more casually.

With the computer, I laughed a bit when Saru just assumes it's the sphere.
"Hmm, the computer suddenly started to sound different. Must be the sphere"

I do like that in 300 years the best comedy is seemingly still the likes of Buster Keaton.

Sesshoumaru

This episode gave me a good vibe, like a TNG episode. Number One got a proper away team type mission on a planet surface. I really liked it. I enjoyed the B plot on the ship with the rest of the Discovery crew as well. I'm glad they actually followed up on Detmer. That was a good episode.

Yes. Now that was a Star Trek episode.
Damn that was actual, honest to goodnes Trek.

Michael can be central to plot but other crew shining through.

The Trill didn't say there were no joinings between Symbiots and others. They said no successful.


As for Saru assuming it was the Sphere, didn't Sphere data flash up on screen just before Calypso voice appeared.

Future guess

The ship has to go back in time for Calypso to happen. Also needs to be missing the crew.
A way for Georgiou to get back, and make the ship wait in the nebula?

corkie

Deleted User wrote: »

As for Saru assuming it was the Sphere, didn't Sphere data flash up on screen just before Calypso voice appeared.

Saru back was to the screen before we heard the 'Zora' (not known as that yet) voice.

^^^ Not a spoiler if you have seen "Calypso,"?

AMKC

Just watched it now. It was an ok episode but definitely getting more like a Star Trek episode should be.
Would any of the Discovery crew have known about Trill do? I do not think the Federation knew about it until the 24th century sometime. Still nice to see it do and they did get a better reception there than at Earth. One has to wonder what Kronos would be like now and other worlds to Andorra, Bajor, Risa, Vulcan and more.

corkie

AMKC wrote: »

Would any of the Discovery crew have known about Trill do? I do not think the Federation knew about it until the 24th century sometime.

There is a Trill character in the Short Trek 'The Trouble with Edward', so the federation knew of the species then, but it was not well know that they had symbionts.

Saru got information from the sphere data in prior episode.

AMKC

corkie wrote: »

There is a Trill character in the Short Trek 'The Trouble with Edward', so the federation knew of the species then, but it was not well know that they had symbionts.

Saru got information from the sphere data in prior episode.

Awe ok. I might not have seen that Short Trek. Will have to watch it.

Evade

That's it. I'm done. I turned the episode off after Michael was the only one who could commune with Adira in the sacred pool no non Trill are allowed in. If you need to have Michael save the day in every episode stop setting up that she's the least likely person in the room to be able to do it.

Trill electro glaives are stupid too. Phasers exist and are much more effective unless you're a Klingon who can work yourself into a frenzy to shrug off a few hits.

Evade

AMKC wrote: »

Would any of the Discovery crew have known about Trill do? I do not think the Federation knew about it until the 24th century sometime.

Emony Dax had a fling with Bones when he was a young man while she was on Earth to judge a gymnastics competition.

Evade

Evade wrote: »

That's it. I'm done. I turned the episode off after Michael was the only one who could commune with Adira in the sacred pool no non Trill are allowed in. If you need to have Michael save the day in every episode stop setting up that she's the least likely person in the room to be able to do it.

Trill electro glaives are stupid too. Phasers exist and are much more effective unless you're a Klingon who can work yourself into a frenzy to shrug off a few hits.

It was dangerous and the other Trills needed to stick things in the water.
They also did not know Adira, for trust reasons alone Michael was most suitable. It was the reason she was sent down, in the first place.

This is the first time where I was like OK, the away "team" gets to do its thing.

It also got her off the damn ship

TheValeyard

Think we all know the rumour of who Adira actually turns to be?

mikhail

TheValeyard wrote: »

Think we all know the rumour of who Adira actually turns to be?

No? Perhaps best to spoiler tag any reply though.

corkie

TheValeyard wrote: »

Think we all know the rumour of who Adira actually turns to be?

No! Haven't heard.

But it would be a stretch to make any connection to 'Dax'.

TheValeyard

corkie wrote: »

No! Haven't heard.

But it would be a stretch to make any connection to 'Dax'.

Ding ding ding ding.



Not sure if it's a good idea or not.

flazio

I'm not spoilering this because the idea is nuts.
It's not the Dax symbiot. For one thing, We've seen all the previous hosts in the pool and they carry the Tal name.
Now admittedly I'm not fully up on my Dax history, I'm only up to the first DS9 episode after First Contact movie. I could easily see this type of plot slot into DS9. It'd just be filmed and scored differently.
Holograms are back, which is good to see.
Am I to take it that Saru has combined the ready room and briefing room into one space? Certainly seems efficient.
Culber must be the CMO, even if he was just referred to as the "medical officer" by Saru. Why else would he be called to the captains dinner? Not sure about Chief engineer though. Maybe it's the other big alien.
Anyway excellent episode in my opinion.

ilovesmybrick

Without changing the trend of the story too much I would have been far happier if Culber had gone down to Trill. You could have had the exact same plot points, but had Culber using the symbiont pool to work through his issues (which seemed to completely disappear at the start of this season) alongside Adira. I didn't quite buy his reason for sending Michael and it would help develop the other characters that aren't called Michael.

Also, is it just me, but there was a twee soundtrack between Adira and Michael again this episode that happened last week with Adira and Stamets that I just find too much on the nose, and it irritates the hell out of me. It just seems to make the emotional beats a bit too on the nose.

CastorTroy

What did Adira's boyfriend mean when he asked why she didn't tell Michael about him?

somuj

TheValeyard wrote: »

Ding ding ding ding.



Not sure if it's a good idea or not.

Hasperat

Spear

flazio wrote: »

Culber must be the CMO, even if he was just referred to as the "medical officer" by Saru. Why else would he be called to the captains dinner? Not sure about Chief engineer though. Maybe it's the other big alien.
Anyway excellent episode in my opinion.

He's the former CMO, and still married to Stametz. It seems the new CMO is never allowed leave the sickbay.

Then again the suggestion from the compute was to invite the bridge crew, so half of those present shouldn't be there.

Spear

CastorTroy wrote: »

What did Adira's boyfriend mean when he asked why she didn't tell Michael about him?

I interpreted that to mean his ghostly manifestation, rather than the more detached memories of past hosts.

corkie

CastorTroy wrote: »

What did Adira's boyfriend mean when he asked why she didn't tell Michael about him?

corkie wrote: »

Trill ~ Host + symbionts

Disappointed that 'Gray' is not a proper fleshed out character, but just 'symbionts' memories/ghost.

^^^ Reason she didn't tell them she was seeing him.
^^^ Removed the spoiler tag from original post.

Star Trek Discovery's

Twist Is More Confusing Than DS9's

"The final surprise of "Forget Me Not" was that Gray manifested independently of Adira's memories and became a vision that, presumably, only Adira can see, talk to, and interact with. "

+

"But Star Trek: Deep Space Nine did this same narrative trick years before in the season 7 episode, "Field of Fire", where Ezri Dax interacted with a prior Dax host, Joran Dax (Leigh J. McCloskey)."

+ Read the link more on Trill Rite of Emergence

Edit: - Sorry @flazio but not spoiler tagging stuff from older shows.

There was enough references to DS9 in this episode without a need to string a connection to 'Dax'. The only loose connection is that maybe Gray Tal or another trill host was a decedent of a 'Dax' host. <<<< @TheValeyard

IrishZeus

Thought it was going great till CMO talked Michael into going on the away mission. Initial reaction was “here we go again... it’s all about Burnham!”

But pleasantly surprised in the end - definitely had more of a Trek feeling to it. I’m enjoying this series more than the others to be honest.

flazio

CastorTroy wrote: »

What did Adira's boyfriend mean when he asked why she didn't tell Michael about him?

Michael can't see Gray. Clearly the symbiont is communicating to it's human host in a different way then they do with Trill and Adria is afraid Michael won't understand.

Goodshape

Culber talking Burnham into going down to the planet was an awful scene but once she got there it wasn't too bad. Burnham seems a lot more confident and less confused than she used to be (we know this because the dialogue explicitly and repeatedly tells us so) but mostly, despite jumping into the magic water for moral support, she was just standing around while the plot focused on Adira.

And god love her but it might have been worse if she was on the ship and in the middle of that b-story.

CramCycle

Again, silly sending Michael down, they could have easily sent the MO, although with a 3rd person.

Also Saru was far to calm about the ship becoming sentient unless I missed other stuff. Also, stand down yellow alert, they seem grand.

Yet another episode which was OK but would have been better with the right editor. The plot was too jumpy.

TheValeyard

They really making use of those drone things this season.

Banana Republic 1

corkie wrote: »

Star Trek Discovery Season 3 Episode 4 - 'Forgot Me Not'.

Sorry AMKC, just posting before duplicates start to appear.

I thought this episode started well, no cut away camera movement, Tilly got a slap of a wet sock I thought this is going good. Course Burnham was crowbarred in subtly but still. When the all started arguing at the dinner I was thinking finally a bit of genuine darkness. It was long till the whole super fun happy slide nonsense started up with the crying and hugging they couldn’t leave well alone and the trill character with the blue hair it’s fairly obvious that that sob story will be forced down our throats in the future. O and the AI is still in the ship que they way home.

flazio

TheValeyard wrote: »

They really making use of those drone things this season.

I've christened them "Burn-Es" in honour of a similar repair drone seen in the Pixar movie Wall-E which got a funny short made about it. I think it's on Disney+ if you've a subscription for watching The Mandalorian.

Banana Republic 1

Goodshape wrote: »

Culber talking Burnham into going down to the planet was an awful scene but once she got there it wasn't too bad. Burnham seems a lot more confident and less confused than she used to be (we know this because the dialogue explicitly and repeatedly tells us so) but mostly, despite jumping into the magic water for moral support, she was just standing around while the plot focused on Adira.

And god love her but it might have been worse if she was on the ship and in the middle of that b-story.

If Burnham stayed on the ship it would be all about her. Pity they didn’t phaser the shuttle craft to hell so she would never come back.

TheValeyard

Do they always fly with the shuttle bay door open?

Evade

TheValeyard wrote: »

Do they always fly with the shuttle bay door open?

It doesn't look like it has a door. Mirandas don't either. Was the clutter between the shuttle and the forcefield was really off-putting to anyone else?

CastorTroy

Does Detmer have an implant? I thought something had broke in it.
She was starting to sound like she was auditioning for the boat scene in Willy Wonka.

CramCycle

Evade wrote: »

It doesn't look like it has a door. Mirandas don't either. Was the clutter between the shuttle and the forcefield was really off-putting to anyone else?

Surely that's a big design flaw if there is ever power outages etc.

CastorTroy wrote: »

Does Detmer have an implant? I thought something had broke in it.
She was starting to sound like she was auditioning for the boat scene in Willy Wonka.

I really hope it's PTSD and it's explored TNG style rather than some cooky bond with the ship or remnant of last season's bad guy.

Evade

CramCycle wrote: »

Surely that's a big design flaw if there is ever power outages etc.

Maybe but Starfleet does like to have backups for its backups. A stray torpedo would have been more dangerous but then they do have magic blast doors now.

TheValeyard

Evade wrote: »

It doesn't look like it has a door. Mirandas don't either. Was the clutter between the shuttle and the forcefield was really off-putting to anyone else?

Has to have a door. :pac::pac: in STO you can open and close the door.

McGiver

A bit sentimental, but very decent episode overall.
The show is on the right track (within limits and constraints of contacts etc).

Looking forward to seeing another episode directed by Frakes. I believe this one wasn't.

Enjoyed the part on trill. Not sure what the party was about

AMKC

McGiver wrote: »

A bit sentimental, but very decent episode overall.
The show is on the right track (within limits and constraints of contacts etc).

Looking forward to seeing another episode directed by Frakes. I believe this one wasn't.

Nope this episode was not directed by him. The last one was.

SouthWesterly wrote: »

Enjoyed the part on trill. Not sure what the party was about

It was not a party it was a dinner with the Captain and it was to try and give this crew of perfects some new meaning to there lifes and to except that things are not now normal as they are 932 years in the future now so all there dates like birthdays all there celebrations all the people they have ever known are gone now.

TheValeyard

I liked the dinner bit and movie bit.

Trill was nice.

Would have made more sense for Dr.Culber to go to the planet.

When did the Trill get Ori weapons?

Close the fcuking back door of the ship....

Saru is a good Captain.

Ship is AI has totally merged with Sphere to become self aware.

Generation ship makes sense.

Needs less Michael, more Saru, Stamets.

Detmer said more in that episode than the last two seasons combined.

alchemist33

Just remembered, Michael said "milennia" instead of "milennium" for their jump forward in time. Not so perfect now, Ms Smartypants.

PirateShampoo

So if Adria lived on a generation ship (implying it's a slow, minimum contact type of deal) how did she end up on earth working for the Earth Defence Force?

PirateShampoo

PirateShampoo wrote: »

So if Adria lived on a generation ship (implying it's a slow, minimum contact type of deal) how did she end up on earth working for the Earth Defence Force?

I took that it was a Starfleet ship locked a 100, or so, years away after the Burn