Leo Varadkar story in The Village??? - Mod Notes and banned Users in OP updated 16/05

yabadabado

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Something can be both verified and defamatory.

For example, somebody could say that Mr McMurphy was seen running away from a playground with a scared looking child and has not been seen since.

McMurphy could verify the story that he did indeed run away from the playground with a child, but that the child was his son and he was running to get out of the rain.

Hahaha

Jaysus this is comical stuff.What is defamatory about that example.

Nobotty

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Lad he admitted to giving them a confidemtial contract that wasnt in public domain


Like,your free to claim all.this normal ethicall correct carry-on and deosnt breach above regulations....but to my eyes it deos,and sooner this lands in front of a judge/tribunal the better

But there's the problem
We do not know if the documents were covered under the official secrets act
In fact can documents that are not exclusive to cabinet and the civil service be covered by cabinet confidentiality at all?
The internal discussion at cabinet can
But once members of the public (Gp's their wives and families) have a document, then its not a cabinet or government document
If I'm able to see something that simple, The village is ****ed IMO

Bubbaclaus

weldoninhio wrote: »

Neither of the above is defamatory hahaha

It is if it issues in the Village Magazine with MCMURPHY, PEADO splashed across the cover.

I Am The Law

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

It is if it issues in the Village Magazine with MCMURPHY, PEADO splashed across the cover.

Now that's defamatory.

s1ippy

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

It is if it issues in the Village Magazine with MCMURPHY, PEADO splashed across the cover.

Who hurt you

Get Real

Paddygreen wrote: »

Homophobia is alive and well I see. Leave Leo alone, it was only an oversight ok. This is a grubby, heinous plan hatched by that semi-coherent Cork bog plugger Martin in conjunction jealous reprobates on the FG back bench, and Christian far right groups.

What on earth has this got to do with anything regarding the alleged leaking of confidential documents?

Using someone's sexuality to defend them when it has nothing to do with the issue at hand, is just as bad as using someone's sexuality to attack them.

You're using sexuality as a tool to discredit others. The irony.

Cute Hoor

Can I ask any of the Mount St lads - do you see anything wrong with Varadkar giving an official Government document marked 'Confidential / not for circulation' to a buddy.

Bubbaclaus

weldoninhio wrote: »

Neither of the above is defamatory hahaha

It actually is. Have you read the defamation law in Ireland? It is a very low bar.

Doc07

McMurphy wrote: »

https://twitter.com/nwl88444048/status/1322848149640282112?s=19

Not defending what Leo did, but it’s so far away from the broadband stuff to be a different sport really.

Gruffalux

Look, doesn't Leo know that the only way to kill it dead is to call it a Russian plot. Come on, man!

joemurt

Can not wait for next months addition of the village. Harris must be sweating buckets atm. ''Be Kind everyone'' tweets incoming (while removing funds for youth mental health projects)

Can now see why the whistleblower went to that outlet as apposed to a D O'Brien organ, The 'Irish' Times or RTE.

Government to end before 2020.

Criminal stuff.

Gruffalux

Get Real wrote: »

What on earth has this got to do with anything regarding the alleged leaking of confidential documents?

Using someone's sexuality to defend them when it has nothing to do with the issue at hand, is just as bad as using someone's sexuality to attack them.

You're using sexuality as a tool to discredit others. The irony.

Paddygreen is a well-known world-class epidemiologist and now pundit of the political imbroglio. He is never wrong. Show some respect.

McMurphy

https://twitter.com/MaryLouMcDonald/status/1322861757942169602?s=19


MLMD getting her dig in on Twitter, you know well this will upset many of Leo's defence team on boards, but best of all, seeing as the man seems to live a hefty portion of his life in twitter, you also know well Leo will have seen this tweet, and as the man is shinner-19 obsessive positive, and he's no comeback, that will be making his piss actually curdle.

This week in the Dail will be interesting, I personally think there's a greater chance of martians fielding a team in next year's all Ireland final than the leaky one ever being Taoiseach again.

Shaping up to be an interesting November.

yabadabado

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

It actually is. Have you read the defamation law in Ireland? It is a very low bar.

You obviously haven't.

It may be a low bar but its not completely absurd like the example you gave .

joemurt

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

It is if it issues in the Village Magazine with MCMURPHY, PEADO splashed across the cover.

:eek::eek::eek:

weldoninhio

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

It actually is. Have you read the defamation law in Ireland? It is a very low bar.

How does describing a child defame someone hahahahaha. Such nonsense.

smurgen

Any tendering process Varadkar has been involved in will have to be looked at now. Given the spiraling costs of the national broadband plan and the national children's hospital lots of discretionary payments could have been wiggled into the budgets.

Take this for example:

"In a letter to the then-Taoiseach, BAM Ireland chief executive Theo Cullinane said he had received a chart purporting to list BAM projects with cost over-runs from the Department of the Taoiseach under the Freedom of Information Act.

"The source of these figures is unclear, but they are completely factually incorrect. It is concerning that they are apparently sitting on a file in your department and available to inform Government commentary in relation to our company," Mr Cullinane said"

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/builder-challenged-leo-to-apologise-for-incorrect-figures-39506657.html

Rothko

Paddygreen wrote: »

Homophobia is alive and well I see. Leave Leo alone, it was only an oversight ok. This is a grubby, heinous plan hatched by that semi-coherent Cork bog plugger Martin in conjunction jealous reprobates on the FG back bench, and Christian far right groups.

Another poster citing homophobia where there is none. Can you quote some of the supposedly homophobic posts?

Baggly

Paddygreen wrote: »

Homophobia is alive and well I see. Leave Leo alone, it was only an oversight ok. This is a grubby, heinous plan hatched by that semi-coherent Cork bog plugger Martin in conjunction jealous reprobates on the FG back bench, and Christian far right groups.

Mod

Produce some credible evidence, or dont come back to this thread.

Lads....this thread last night and this morning is shocking. You are all doing yourselves no favours with the standard of posting. Improve it please.

McMurphy

**Not a Peado**

(For clarity) :pac:

Jinglejangle69

tipptom wrote: »

So we can all get confidential documents couriered round to us when even the shadow minister for health does not know the contents and is not even finalised?

Just Whatsapp Leo for instant hand relief and a happy ending

There ya go.

Bubbaclaus

Rothko wrote: »

Another poster citing homophobia where there is none. Can you quote some of the supposedly homophobic posts?

There was a good few yesterday, way back in the thread at this stage. Presumably deleted/snipped.

boombang

Nobotty wrote: »

But there's the problem
We do not know if the documents were covered under the official secrets act
In fact can documents that are not exclusive to cabinet and the civil service be covered by cabinet confidentiality at all?
The internal discussion at cabinet can
But once members of the public (Gp's their wives and families) have a document, then its not a cabinet or government document
If I'm able to see something that simple, The village is ****ed IMO

That Village said the leak was potentially illegal. That said, the headline on the article was said Leo is a "Leobreaker".

Eh rothko , 100% bang on..thats the get out card every time. Its like in the movie "this is 40, the father plays the jew card". Then hes called on it by his son who says you cannot play the jew card anymore dad... to which comes the reply..."of course i can still play the jew card, you can always play the jew card...thats the whole point of a jew card". Very funny and well written...point if fact...he will always play the homophopia card..and his ilk.

Signore Fancy Pants

This part of the Official Secrets Act is ambiguous in relation to this incident.

"PART II

Official Information

Disclosure of official information.

4.—(1) A person shall not communicate any official information to any other person unless he is duly authorised to do so or does so in the course of and in accordance with his duties as the holder of a public office or when it is his duty in the interest of the State to communicate it."

The defining questions will be:

1. Was LV authorised to disseminate the relevent document? It could be argued that ultimately (being the Taoiseach), he was. However, he should not have carte blanche to authorise it himself, it should either be a concensus or through official transmission through the relevent Minister.

2. Was the document transmitted by official protocols for classified information? It could be argued that it was not. That is an offence.

3. Regardless of the dissemination and transmission of the classified document. Was the reciever authorised to recieve the classified document?

4. Can it be argued that it was in the interest of the State to be released to that person?

LV is not a stupid person. However, the dissemination of a classified document by unofficial means to a person that may not be authorised to recieve it (in general or at that specific time), is a stupid thing to do.

If there were no complications with releasing the info officially, it would have been done officially.

The defence of "not best practice" is more to do with the the transmission of the document rather than the document itself. It's deflection and an admittance of the minor issue ratger than the main one.

If the opposition released a draft classified document, im sure LV would be very critical of it. He appears to be losing the run of himself.

suicide_circus

So how big a banana skin will this prove to be for Leo?

AndrewJRenko

seligehgit wrote: »

Cheers your posts have been very informative.

That article is behind a paywall.

Any other link to it?

More details in this article, no paywall;

https://www.businesspost.ie/health/do-not-resuscitate-how-the-national-association-of-general-practitioners-fell-apart-26caad85

Reports into the NAGP’s financial affairs found significant failings and outlined unusual payments, unvouched expenses and large cash withdrawals from the company credit card.

If Shane Ross had been caught sending papers to John Delaney, he'd have been crucified, and rightly so.

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

He gave an agreed new GP agreement to the president of a body which represented 40% of GPs. Did he go about it the wrong way? Yes, the Department of Health should have officially provided it earlier than he did.

This rationale doesn't stand up to analysis. If he wanted to build consensus among GPs for the new agreement, he would have been just as concerned about tne 40% of GPs who weren't a member of any association, as the 40% of NAGP members.

The obvious response would be to publish the agreement for all, or to nudge the Minister of Health to publish.

His attempt to hide his tracks using an untracked communications channel is a very strong indicator was that he knew well he was on very dodgy ground himself.

circadian wrote: »

I find it interesting that many posters who would usually call fake news, complain about "leftists" etc are taking a story from a left leaning publication and running with it without questioning the accuracy as they would if it were an article about someone further to the right.

Leo confirmed the basic facts of the story yesterday.

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

The deal had been made public, and a quick search of the IMO website can provide the dates to back that up, but the full text of the agreement had not yet been finalised for distribution, hence why the version that was sent contained the water marks and writing over it.

The deal hadn't been made public, that is untrue.

Dempo1 wrote: »

Intriguing actually, how quite FG TD'S have been, it also let slip (I wonder from whom), that Simon Harris, the actual Health Minister at the time & current "wannabe" health Minister, knew nothing about the offending documents sent to Leo's medical buddy.

This is actually a very big issue. He undermined his own Minister who was continuing to work with the IMO on the deal.

Deleted User wrote: »

I agree....the only thing to be decided,is if the material provided was of benefit to leos mate firm??

The facts are leo distributed confidential info to his mates....undisputed-hes admitted as much

This info wasnt published for a month after they received it (also confirmed)


Whether they benfited or not is another qs,the fact said firm folded few months later is perhaps an indicator they didnt.......

either way,IMO theres no way out of this,without an tribunal inquiry to satify FF backbenchers who are pissed about leo undermining micheal martin

Phoebas wrote: »

You'd have to show the benefit. The deal was done with the IMO. There were no negotiations with the NAGP. The information was no longer sensitive and was fully published a few weeks later, with nothing occuring within that timeline.

The glee shown by the NAGP 'Inner Sanctum' in their WhatsApp group is a fairly good indicator of their benefiting.

Nobotty wrote: »

I'll just repeat my question, he gave a copy of the agreement to the then president of an organisation that represented DOUBLE the number of Gp's as the IMO
Is he not just going to walk into the Dáil Monday and apologise for the method used to share it and then make the point of how great he was for working to get them on board?
He is after all a narcissist
What people are also understandably trying to make a point of here is he had no legal authority to do so
I don't know if he does or if he required the minister for healths permission
If he did Simon Harris is going to say he gave this
In fact for all we know Harris couriered the package
The more I look at it,I think the Village have been stupid here and are exposed, I could be wrong, its just my opinion
I know its not what some people here will want to hear but I have to say it because it jumps out at me

seligehgit wrote: »

Perplexed as to the motivation behind the leak as NAGPI ( that appears to have folded due to clinical governance issues ) was not an official trade union/negotiating partner ?

Was this a bit of one upmanship,an internecine warfare between 2 medical respresentative bodies striving to recruit new members?

NAGPI had 40% of the membership versus 20% in the IMO.

Or simply bringing the majority of GPs on board?

If he was 'working to get them all on board', why would he have ignored the 40% of GPs that weren't in any organisation?

BringBackMick wrote: »

That document may have had that marking on it from months before and it was no longer applicable

People here are really desperate by the looks of it for Leo's head

If Leo goes for this then every member of the Dail will have to follow suit bar perhaps a handful

Desperate smear campaign here by angry men like Paddy Cosgrave

If it was no longer applicable, he would have a copy of a later version without the confidential markings. People here are really desperate to play down this leak that undermined his own Minister.

joemurt

Rothko wrote: »

Another poster citing homophobia where there is none. Can you quote some of the supposedly homophobic posts?

Someone yesterday mention Varadkar being a ''gay GP'' when including ''gay'' had zero relevance to the point they where making.



Why they included it, only they know, but it was irrelevant, unnecessary and cheap.



Gives Fine Gaellers ammo to deflect and derail the thread though, which is nice.

Wombatman

McMurphy wrote: »

https://twitter.com/nwl88444048/status/1322848149640282112?s=19

The worst thing about Golfgate for me was the stench of cronyism.

This is just more of it. While the golden circle might not be illegal as such, it really sticks in the craw of the average working stiff.

Every time the public hear of this type of carry on, they get another message that it's OK to bend the rules. Without getting on the high horse, this type of sh1te damages the fabric of society and feeds into rule bending, say around Covid rules, tax evasion or social protection fraud. Call me naïve, but I expected more from Leo as part of the FG 'new guard'. Are Harris, Convey and Donohoe just new versions of Michael Lowry, but better at managing the cronyism and corruption?

Makes you wonder how massive contracts, like the one for kitting out the national children's hospital for example, are really awarded.

Leo always delivers, but I expect only to those who have delivered to him, and his ilk, first.

smurgen

Four other legislators on Dail record on Tuesday 16th saying they hadn't seen the details.

https://twitter.com/OConnorOisin/status/1322577088415674369?s=19