Your New WHS Index

Seve OB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121137921#Comment_121137921

I’d go as far as saying…. Most

but to answer fixes question, I’d say really only an option for a few golfers in the overall scheme of things.

however, yes the poster above who doesn’t seem to understand the system and is upset that his handicap froze over the winter could play that one game he thinks he needed to go from 11.7 back up to 16 🤣

billy3sheets

You could play qualifying golf anywhere through winter and get your index back down so you wouldn't have the cap in effect.

FixdePitchmark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121137941#Comment_121137941

I think Corballis tries to keep qualifying?

Rikand

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121128951#Comment_121128951

If you are close to your hard cap or hitting it, your handicap committee should be reviewing you at some point soon and giving you an upward revision. There is a report there for handicap committees and in my club we do a periodic review of people hitting their hard cap and seeing if they player deserves an upward revision. Sometimes it works well, sometimes it backfires.

We have a member in our club who used to be a very good golfer. He encountered some serious health issues and when he was finally able to return to golf he got a number of upward revisions. We gave him a very recent upward revision and 1 week afterwards, he won a club major. Handicap committee got a lot of slagging and in no way do I think he was sandbagging his handicap, but sometimes getting a whole pile of shots can give a player renewed confidence. He's now back down below the handicap he was when we gave him his last increase. It just took a few extra shots for him to realise he is a better golfer than the handicap he was given.

Seve OB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121140221#Comment_121140221

Didn’t mean price

meant location and access

corballis grand for north side dubs and ever surrounding counties but not for rest of country

FixdePitchmark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121140709#Comment_121140709

Look if there is a will there is a way ..

If I needed a qualifying comp to avoid some.sort of winter stagnation..I'd travel and do it.

Lots of places have a winter series ..

If people want to hang up their clubs in September..they are not golfers anyway..

coillcam

@Rikand not sure if it was you or someone else who mentioned being HC secretary before. General question for those in the role.

How much time does it take to do that job and how much easier/worse has it become since WHS introduction?

gerrykeegan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121137941#Comment_121137941

Sorry but I have been playing golf for nearly 40 years now so I absolutely understand the system, don't understand where you got your comment from or the need for it. Say two friends A & B both off 17 at the start of qualifying in 2022 both play really well during the summer and both get down to 12 by the end of the summer. Player A has one good scoring round falling away just before winter kicks in. They both go out the week before qualifying (say 1/10/22) finishes and both play badly. Player A goes out .2 to 12.2 Player B stays at 12.

In this example Players A's Hard/Soft cap falls away on 30/9/23 Player B's will still be in place until qualifying recommences (most likely Mar April 23)

I just thought that to be harsh/strange that two very similar stories results in a cap being in place for 12 months and one 18/20 months

Seve OB

there Is .2 difference in their handicap. That is not going to affect the soft or hard cap in any significant manner. As it, it basically doesn’t make any difference

gerrykeegan

And if they head off to Corballis for the winter for a change in scene then its qualifying all winter there. Player A's cap is gone Player B's is not for another 6/8 months. It is just an observation nothing more.

Seve OB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121142062#Comment_121142062

But where is it gone?

maybe another bad round and it goes out .2

Rikand

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121141243#Comment_121141243

I'm not actually secretary but I'm on the handicaps Committee in my club. There are 3 of us and we all just work together on things. The hardest part about the job for the Sec would be the email complaints I would say. That seems to be the most frustrating thing and you need a level head/calm demeanor for it. I'd be too brash to be looking after the emails.

Setting up a new member with a handicap takes 15 minutes total between keying the 3 cards, linking with your club software (clubv1 for us) and contacting the new member to inform them.

I look after casual rounds. That involves popping out to the club once a week to grab any cards that have been handed in, making sure they are keyed or keyed correctly. Again, takes about 15 to 20 minutes and I can bring the cards home to do them at home or do them on my phone in the club.

Other than that, it's checking reports for which there is about 20. I login every few days to check scores, make sure there are no duplicate entries, unsatisfied score intents, look at penalty scores, etc. Other reports are checked periodically. This could all be a chore for some people but I have a real grá for the handicap system, so its no hassle for me.

I wasn't involved with handicaps before whs, so I can't compare but the handicap sec said he preferred the reports available on the older systems. Made the job much easier, etc...

I find it very rewarding and I've already been asked to be involved again next year which I'm happy about. Tbh, at the moment, I hope it's my voluntary job for life. I don't take on the actual handicap sec role because I can't attend committee meetings for which the Sec is supposed to attend.

Anything else you want to know ? 😂

Seve OB

Why do you review casual rounds cards?

surely they are just entered y player and signed off by their market.

I mean, playing boards society I stick my rounds in down in Killarney, Cavan and wherever else into the GI app. I don’t keep the card to bring it back to my club

finglashoop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121142575#Comment_121142575

Is he checking for banditry

Rikand

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121142575#Comment_121142575

Not everyone uses the app or the computer outside the pro shop. We've a lot of senior members who still stick in their score cards. Plus mistakes happen sometimes too between the card and the computer. It's just good practice to check them

spacecoyote

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121142096#Comment_121142096

This is what's confusing me, your low index is a rolling 12 month mark, so it ultimately doesn't matter how much you play in that 12 month period right?

Is the OP just confused around the fact its a rolling number?

bakerbhoy

The op does have a valid point.

His club 'fictional '' is a links. Counting all year. Does not play for a number of months, any reason , work, health etc. Is it 12 months or is it 18 months as stated?

billy3sheets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121141243#Comment_121141243

During the counting season, from April to October roughly, there's not an awful lot to do. WHS looks after itself mostly. Most work involves processing new handicaps, which takes 20 minutes or so, and average of 2 per week in my club. I keep a spreadsheet with past handicaps issued so I can refer back and maintain consistency.

During non-counting, from November to March, we implement our own system to adjust based on winter scoring - observation as such. This requires a bit of work and really helps if you're adept with spreadsheets.

Another aspect is responding to emails. These are mostly asking to cancel unattested penalty scores. Quite a few query handicap index movements, so you need to develop a thorough understanding of how WHS works in order to respond competently. I've only encountered a few tetchy emails and the sender is usually happy when they receive a polite response with a good explanation.

There's a couple of Golf Ireland meetings to attend and the annual reports to submit. A few reports to check periodically. We've a WhatsApp committee group where we can discuss matters. Once a month attendance at club committee meetings.

I'm in my second year of it. It's quite enjoyable and rewarding. Helps if you're competent with computers, especially Excel. Great banter with the members about getting watched, cut etc.

I'd be happy to chat about it if you want to DM me.

paulos53

Are 17 hole competitions allowed under WHS? Drainage works started recently in my club so there is 1 hole out of play each day.

I assumed that the out of play hole would go down as a nett par but that wasn't the case and this weekends rounds were non-qualifying for us. A bit annoying as my round would have been my lowest score differential of the year.

Seve OB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121151102#Comment_121151102

I thought they could be allowed

thewobbler

How could 9 hole competitions count but 17 hole ones wouldn’t?

something is amiss.

OEP

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121151434#Comment_121151434

Each 9 holes has it's own course rating

PARlance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121151434#Comment_121151434

Here's one for you... how could a club host a 10 hole evening competition during the summer... when playing that additional hole (that makes it non counting) actually means playing away from the clubhouse... literally going out of our way to make it non-counting.

There was a push to get it turned into a counting 9-hole competition this year but the power of the club teams is strong I guess.

bakerbhoy

We have 11 hole. Finishes at clubhouse.

Seniors, long and 4 ball .

29 30 pts normally required.

All non counting.

Seve OB

From R&A

3.2

When a Hole is Not Played

There are various circumstances that may result in holes not being played, for example, due to:

Fading light or bad weather,

Player injury or illness,

A match finishing before the final hole, or

A hole declared out of play by the Committee for maintenance or reconstruction purposes.

A score may only be used for handicap purposes if, among other things, the round has been played over at least the minimum number of holes required for either a 9-hole or an 18-hole score to be acceptable.

Where the minimum number of holes has been completed which is less than 9 or 18 holes, and the reason for a player not playing a hole is valid, the player must scale up their score to produce either a 9 or 18-hole score.

If the reason for a player not playing a hole, or holes, is considered invalid, the Handicap Committee may consider applying a penalty score.

from USGA

Adjustment of Hole Scores

Q. How many holes must be played to post an acceptable score?

A. For a 9-hole score to be posted, at least 7 holes must be played. For an 18-hole score to be posted, at least 14 holes must be played.

If more than 9 but fewer than 14 holes are played, you must post a 9-hole score – which is then combined with another 9-hole score to create an 18-hole score. (Rule 2.2, Rules of Handicapping)

Adjustment of Hole Scores

Q. I did not play a hole. What score to do I post?

A. When a hole is not played, for example, due to darkness or construction, the score recorded for handicap purposes is net par, equal to par plus any handicap strokes you are entitled to receive based on your Course Handicap™.

For example: A Player with a Course Handicap of 21 receives 1 handicap stroke on all 18 holes and 2 handicap strokes on holes with a stroke index of 1 through 3 on the scorecard.

On a par-3 hole with a stroke index of 17, the player’s net par score is 4 (3 + 1). (Rule 3.2, Rules of Handicapping)

IMO that means @paulos53 you were correct and round should be counting

paulos53

Thanks Parlance and bakerbhoy. Looks like other clubs are doing the same thing.

@Seve OB Maybe it is a directive from Golf Ireland to only accept 9 & 18 hole rounds?

Funnily enough, I know of 1 guy who entered a general play score in the app instead of playing in the competition and his score was accepted for handicap purposes.

1 of 7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121154096#Comment_121154096

I believe it is a directive from golf Ireland to only accept nine and eighteen hole scores. Their representatives have stated that 14,15 or 17 competitions is against the spirit of the rule and should be non counting. The Whs allows for 14,15, 17 hole scores to count but Golf Ireland doesn’t seem to accept this as a method for counting golf.

Seve OB

What did that fella stick in for the hole that was closed?

I guess he technically could have put in a net par, but he probably shouldn’t have.

also, the club have the control to block the GI app from allowing general play rounds to be submitted, so I suppose they just forgot to block it.

handicap sec could go back and remove it from the players record

PARlance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121153805#Comment_121153805

28 points won the last six 10 hole comps in our place. (CAT 2 - anyone above single figures).

CAT 1 (single figures) is much less outrageous generally, usually 23/24 wins that.

They brought categories into it rather than making it counting. Lads off 2 didn't fancy entering it if they had to shoot 6,7,8 under to be in with a chance.

paulos53

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121154311#Comment_121154311

I don't remember the exact wording but there is an option in the app to select something like "Didn't Play" when you scratch a hole and the system then inserts a nett par with an asterisk next to it.