Gyms to Reopen 2021???

Black Sheep

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118309962#Comment_118309962

I went on to say they’d be much less likely to end up there. If you want to pedantic guess my first post was too absolute but fundamentally the point remains - being vaccinated would dramatically increase their chances, whatever other risk factors they have going on. We can dance around that but yeah that is a fact borne out by the past year.

If I got your back up by making such a pedestrian argument in favour of vaccination then I can only imagine how difficult things are for you right now in terms of where we are and what you’re likely reading and hearing all over the place: Best of luck with it.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118310042#Comment_118310042

Your assertion that "lunatics" are to blame for the current situation regarding covid is the issue I have.

Yesterday we had Fintan O'Toole writing in the Irish Times that the unvaccinated are a cohort of fascists and soon to be fascists. Complete and utter nonsense stirring up division and hatred amongst the people of this country in the what is notionally regarded as the paper of record.

This "other-ing" of the unvaccinated is a handy tool for politicians who have for generations failed to curate our health service correctly, something that has been an issue for decades, in fact every year in living memory pre covid we have had a winter "trolley crisis" in our hospitals, now the government can take to the airwaves and declare this to be the fault of the unvaccinated. That is a cop out, a get out of jail free card for our self serving political class and our media institutions are backing them up because the notion of unvaccinated = far right conspiracy theorist allows the like of Fintan O'Toole to write absolute garbage like what I referred to above and have people like you nod along in agreement.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308543#Comment_118308543

Just on the point of this being a short term measure for a month or two.

Certs will likely be required for the next 18 months for any settings where they are currently required. Next year when case numbers drop (over the last two years covid has shown itself to be somewhat seasonal) the push to try to get to Zero Covid will keep certs in place through the summer months, the numbers will increase by the end of 2022 as they have this year. Boosters will be a requirement for keeping your cert valid in summer time so there's that to consider.

Essentially if you're not vaccinated and the boosted you won't be seeing the inside of a gym for the guts of two years, in my estimation of course and I'd happily be proven wrong, I'm just applying the logic of what's gone before.

Black Sheep

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118310782#Comment_118310782

Happy to accept I am critical of the hold-outs who are still not vaccinated but it’s over simplistic to say they are to blame for the current situation overall, which of course is why I have never said that on here. Can you show me where I did?

You should write in to the IT and give your critique of Fintan’s piece. :)

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118311101#Comment_118311101

You're happy to characterize anyone who hasn't been vaccinated as "nutty". You're perpetuating the narrative that the government and the media wants you to. Blame the unvaccinated for the state of the current situation and base the willingness to apportion that blame on the basis that the unvaccinated are all "nutty" or fascists. You're part of the problem here, unless of course you have irrefutable evidence that every unvaccinated person in Ireland is indeed "nutty".

Black Sheep

So you can’t show me where I said what you said I did?

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118311582#Comment_118311582

Sure can, watch out for the next post...

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308519#Comment_118308519

Second paragraph.

Black Sheep

Still waiting for you to show me where I said the unvaccinated are to blame for our current situation. :)

I do think the anti vaxxer position is pretty nutty, I have no problem saying that. It’s so clearly at odds with the consensus expert opinion it’s hard to say otherwise. I appreciate that seems to cause you upset when you hear that, but sure that’s life, if someone is going to be an anti vaxxer these days they’d need to grow a pretty thick skin.

But no, I never said they were to blame for our current predicament. It’s too complex to be that simple.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118311641#Comment_118311641

I never said that you said the unvaccinated are to blame for the current situation. I said that the language you're using to describe the unvaccinated is the same that is used by those who do believe that.

You're demanding I show where you said something, but I never accused you of that, so I could start with the same nonsense you're going on with any say "show me where I said X".

I'm offended by the stupidity of people being whipped up into a frenzy against a small cohort of people as a means of deflecting responsibility from the government and past governments who have created a situation where out health system is continuously incapable of dealing with anything, be that this pandemic, or a standard winter flu season.

If you think all unvaccinated people are "nutty" that's fine by me, it isn't true but you're entitled to the right to have a daft opinion. You have after all gotten all bent out of shape about something to THINK I said but never did, so who's to say who and what is "nutty"?

Black Sheep

You wrote-

“Your assertion that "lunatics" are to blame for the current situation regarding covid is the issue I have”

Now thank you for agreeing I never asserted that :)

I appreciate you don’t like me describing anti vax ideas as nutty or from a lunatic fringe, but yes, not much I can say about that as I think that is the majority view and quite accurate, it is what it is.

I’m not put out btw. It’s only a discussion forum. If someone gets upset by what someone says on boards they should take a break from it (really!).

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118311735#Comment_118311735

You got me there.

This isn't the only discussion I've been having about this, got my wires crossed somewhere along the way.

My point is that the ongoing labeling of people as "nutty" as you said, or fascists as Fintan O'Toole said in his piece yesterday isn't helping the situation.

When you chastise and marginalise people you are guaranteed to make their position more entrenched. Essentially, if the goal is to make unvaccinated people come around to your way of thinking and take a vaccine, calling them names and making assumptions about them is not the way to go about it.

Parallel to that, the blame game the government are engaged in with the unvaccinated is a classic case of never let a good crisis go to waste, they are using the unvaccinated as scapegoats for their own failings, in a way seeing everyone vaccinated would be a good thing from the position of giving our elected officials nowhere to hide on the issue of their mismanagement of the health system.

In the end its just disappointing to see how easily people can be turned against one another. It seems like we should be above this type of thing but humans are pretty stupid when you think about it.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118311735#Comment_118311735

You said that the "hold outs" are a "nutty fringe". That suggests that anyone who hasn't been vaccinated is part of that "nutty fringe".

That's just lazy name calling. Do you really believe that all unvaccinated people should be described that way?

Are you suggesting that I should take a break from posting? Not your call to make I'm afraid. I got my wires crossed on one sentence earlier (I didn't have to acknowledge my mistake but I did) but I still believe what your saying is not constructive and is part of a wider consensus that any rational person shouldn't tolerate.

Black Sheep

Appreciate you saying you got your wires crossed.

What I would say is I actually don’t hate anyone for being unvaccinated, if anything I tend to think of them as misguided. I think there are various reasons people adopt anti vax positions and not all are bad faith. If I think of the small number of anti vaxxers I know personally, I would describe some of them as quite vulnerable people.

Some are nutty though, yes, and some propagate nutty ideas, it is what it is. I get you don’t like that but that is undoubtedly what people are thinking if you air anti vax ideas in public, whether people say it to you or not.

I have some sympathy with the reluctance of communities from former soviet states, actually, I can understand how there might be a really tangible distrust of state advice, passed down from parents and grandparents.

In terms of convincing people in general, I wouldn’t see it as my business. I do think government should be trying I guess. Not sure there is much more we can do at this stage, I think we have nearly the highest vax rate in the world so we aren’t doing too bad anyway.

Not sure there’s more I can say! We are so far off topic.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118312004#Comment_118312004

The only thing I'd add is that anti Vax and unvaccinated are not the same thing. That's the nub of the issue really.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118310823#Comment_118310823

That is really not a sustainable model at all for leisure activities, nor for an economy. Remember this measure also includes outdoor outdoor events and entertainment as well. Booster rates will be lower so that means even more of a falloff in business if that's how they are pursued. Imagine businesses being faced with 4-5 times as any people who are not vaccinated according to the cert.

For gyms and other places they will be over soon enough and you can expect the government to drop them for all other domestic use as soon as they can, i.e. the all powerful case numbers fall away enough. The travel use is probably the one place where they will probably remain for a long while.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118313089#Comment_118313089

Like I said, I'll gladly be proven wrong. I do feel however with NPHET being the puppet masters of this government, certs are here to stay for the foreseeable future with the reasoning being that a repeat of the stop start reopening not being wanted this year.

The numbers that are still unvaccinated shouldn't be causing the problems they are purported to be causing, at least in a properly functioning health system they wouldn't. Unless there are plans to expand the number of ICU beds in the next six months I think the current restrictions will remain with the continued use of the unclean, sorry unvaccinated as a buffer by the government.

Ultimately time will tell, I'd gladly be proven wrong on this but looking at what's gone before in this crisis I think we'll be getting booster after booster in order to be able to use the gym for the foreseeable future.

iguana

So are gyms still allowed open past 8 or are they counted as "cultural?"

billyhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118339117#Comment_118339117

Of course there allowed to open past 8 for members with a vaccine cert.

iguana

All hospitality and cultural, cinemas, etc, have to shut at 8 from Monday. I'm assuming gyms aren't affected but not 100% sure.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118277535#Comment_118277535

Same as ours, problem is about 40% of people are no longer sanitising or mask wearing moving between equipment/rooms and stations…there is a gang of younger lads who spend about half their time there, leaning on equipment, which they don’t sanitize, maskless and yapping non stop to each other, staff are very good but there are a whole lot less of them in fact it’s a skeleton crew and the senior manager she is about as useful as a condom with air vents…. Next time I see her is hopefully in the obituary column, anyway…

i am just doing my bit as I expect of others…sanitiser and mask when required

Black Sheep

I don't feel like we are going to go down this route in Ireland, but worth noting that gyms are in the crosshairs again elsewhere in Europe.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/netherlands-to-go-into-lockdown-from-midnight-sunday-1.4759144

billyhead

Hopefully not.

FlubberJones

UGH.... not again,

silverharp

if the gyms close again, I will join a protest march for the first time in my life

c.p.w.g.w

With restrictions lifted, does this mean that certs and masks won't be required for gym?

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118523652#Comment_118523652

certs will be gone but they might keep the masks in common areas if thats how it was before

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118523652#Comment_118523652

They need to ban young lads looking at their phones instead of lifting in my gym.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118549189#Comment_118549189

Hate that. They don't care about other people waiting on weights, machines.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118550613#Comment_118550613

There seems to be so many of them as well since the reopening last year. Saw one dope injure himself last week not lifting properly.

They seem to be obsessed with working their triceps in isolation for some reason. Phones constantly in their hands. I feel like getting a hammer and smashing every phone I see in their hands for more than a few seconds.