UFC 254 - Khabib v Gaethje

Still Ill

Why is everyone even entertaining this nonsense?

eagle eye

All those responses but not one of you have anything to say about the weigh in.
You just repeat the line that he made weight.
Unbelievable.
And people quoting my post saying I'm disrespecting his skills when I'm saying in the post that he's great on the ground.
I know he's great on the ground, know he's an excellent grappler but this was different to any other fight, any other Khabib fight. He just overpowered Gaethje due to a massive weight and size advantage.

Mellor

eagle eye wrote: »

As regards the weigh in, I don't think he waited for the bar to stop.
Khabib looked like death warmed up at the weigh in.
As regards their weights in the ring, I have no idea but there looked to be a big difference in size and weight.

eagle eye wrote: »

All those responses but not one of you have anything to say about the weigh in.
You just repeat the line that he made weight.
Unbelievable.

I comment on the weigh-in a few times. You've either missed it or ignored it, I assume the former.
I agree that it looked like he reset the scales quickly. But I haven't looked closely at the scales in the past to comment on whether that's uncommon.

If you are saying the movement of the bar means he was over 155, then why did the official call out 155?
If you are saying the official was in on the fix and was going to call out 155 regardless. Why would he not just balance the scales (at 156, 157, etc) and call out 155. I suggested actions make no sense logically.

eagle eye

Mellor wrote:

If you are saying the movement of the bar means he was over 155, then why did the official call out 155? If you are saying the official was in on the fix and was going to call out 155 regardless. Why would he not just balance the scales (at 156, 157, etc) and call out 155. I suggested actions make no sense logically.

The weigh in was too quick and even Javier Mendez said that if he was unbiased looking in he'd say something was up the way it was done.

Mellor

eagle eye wrote: »

The weigh in was too quick ...

As you've repeated. I've agreed it was quick.
You suggested something was dodgy about it being quick. Fair enough.
I'm asking you dodgy how? To what purpose. I'm asking to elaborate and have a basic critical look at what you are suggesting.

What possible scenerios could explain, dodgy or otherwise;

Like, A) He knew from experience that it was on weight, or
The UFC told him Khabib was over, or he knew in advance some other way, and intended to fake the weight. In that case, making the scales balance for the camera, and announce 155 is the obvious move,
C) Khabib was a c.1/2lb over and he decided on the spot to not announce it. Which is not really Khabib problem, he has hours left to weigh-in, so it's likely a nonissue.


That's about all I can think of. Maybe I'm missing something. But one of those is very unlikely and the other two not an issued imo.

derfderf

Isn't the actual weigh in done backstage, and this is kind of ceremonial? Unless I heard lies.

Mellor

derfderf wrote: »

Isn't the actual weigh in done backstage, and this is kind of ceremonial? Unless I heard lies.

That was the official weigh-in. Not the one on stage. (ie the one that counts)
The stage one with the face offs, fans etc, is ceremonial. Although, with Fight Island, Covid, there is less of a difference between them.

Alf Veedersane

Mellor wrote: »

As you've repeated. I've agreed it was quick.
You suggested something was dodgy about it being quick. Fair enough.
I'm asking you dodgy how? To what purpose. I'm asking to elaborate and have a basic critical look at what you are suggesting.

What possible scenerios could explain, dodgy or otherwise;

Like, A) He knew from experience that it was on weight, or
The UFC told him Khabib was over, or he knew in advance some other way, and intended to fake the weight. In that case, making the scales balance for the camera, and announce 155 is the obvious move,
C) Khabib was a c.1/2lb over and he decided on the spot to not announce it. Which is not really Khabib problem, he has hours left to weigh-in, so it's likely a nonissue.


That's about all I can think of. Maybe I'm missing something. But one of those is very unlikely and the other two not an issued imo.

It's not A anyway. Not judging by how long he waited before calling others' weight.

I'm not going to speculate about reasons for it...I don't think its necessarily a conspiracy. Nor do I think it changes the course of the fight but given how wrecked he looked, having to drop another pound or even two by the end of the weigh ins...I wouldn't agree it's a non-issue for him.

ASOT

eagle eye wrote: »

The weigh in was too quick and even Javier Mendez said that if he was unbiased looking in he'd say something was up the way it was done.

Do you have a link to Mendez saying that as that'd be interesting.

Alf Veedersane

ASOT wrote: »

Do you have a link to Mendez saying that as that'd be interesting.

https://www.mmafighting.com/2020/10/26/21535265/javier-mendez-surprised-at-khabib-nurmagomedov-retirement-at-ufc-254-addresses-weigh-in-controversy

“I’m like, what the hell are people talking about? He was right on point,” Mendez said. “There’s no way something went wrong. And then I watched the weigh-in, and the guys that were doing the scale thing, man, those guys were speedy Gonzales? What the hell were they doing? That was so damn quick the way they did that. I would think something’s up myself, personally.
“If you watch [the weigh-in], which I did watch, Khabib grabbed both of those guys hands, he steps on the scale, and as soon as he releases his hands, the guys are like already. It’s like, what the f*ck? Why’d they go so fast with the scale? He was on weight. He was on point.”
Mendez said a close review of the video shows Nurmagomedov was on weight, but admits the episode “did look suspicious.” The responsibility for the bad look, however, rests with the weigh-in officials, not Nurmagomedov.

But if they weight him out the back and he's on weight, so be it.

Just looked dodgy on the scale.

Mellor

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

It's not A anyway. Not judging by how long he waited before calling others' weight.

I'm not going to speculate about reasons for it...I don't think its necessarily a conspiracy. Nor do I think it changes the course of the fight but given how wrecked he looked, having to drop another pound or even two by the end of the weigh ins...I wouldn't agree it's a non-issue for him.

I wasn’t necessarily suggesting it was any of those scenarios. They were just the only ones that came to mind.
The point being that “it was dodgy” on repeat is meaningless with out a plausible reason. Which is exactly how BS conspiracies get spread.

FWIW that was 1/2 a lb, not 1-2lbs.
He had little chance of cutting 2lbs. And there was no chance of him going out first if he had 2 to go.
Where as if he was 155.5lbs he had only needed to drop a 100g or so due to rounding of the lbs.

Effects

eagle eye wrote: »

I know he's great on the ground, know he's an excellent grappler but this was different to any other fight, any other Khabib fight. He just overpowered Gaethje due to a massive weight and size advantage.

He just seemed to overpower Gaethje the same way he overpowers almost everyone.

Alf Veedersane

Mellor wrote: »

I wasn’t necessarily suggesting it was any of those scenarios. They were just the only ones that came to mind.
The point being that “it was dodgy” on repeat is meaningless with out a plausible reason. Which is exactly how BS conspiracies get spread.

Ok, it looked like he called it too fast before letting it settle to show the actual weight. Remove the 'dodgy'. Javier Mendez said it looked off but he knew there was no issue so it's not surprising other people thought there was an issue.

If he weighed 155 out the back, so be it.

Tazzimus

In fairness, your man did that for a lot of the fighters. Just flew threw them.

evil_seed

eagle eye wrote: »

And for any of you that haven't seen the weigh in go look at it and how the bar wasn't let stop before he called it.

Go watch all the weigh ins. The guy did the same for everyone

Mellor

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Ok, it looked like he called it too fast before letting it settle to show the actual weight. Remove the 'dodgy'.

Which suggests maybe he was comfortable with the equipment, and knew it was close enough to target weight. Especially if he did it with others.


And even if he was 1/4 lb over. What would that change?
Gathje still fights Khabib, he's eligible to become champ.
1/4lb doesn't change anything about the outcome.
Khabib still wins.
And he still retires are the undefeated champion with a 29-0 record.

Beersmith

evil_seed wrote: »

Go watch all the weigh ins. The guy did the same for everyone

No he didn't. Go watch them and he always allowed the balance arm to come back downward.

MrStuffins

This thread has been great for my lockdown mental health.

My gym is closed and until this weekend, I thought that the only way to get better at grappling was to actually train. But hey, turns out I just need to be a little heavier.

Considering all of the baking i've been doing, i'm on the fast-track to black belt!

walshb

In the octagon fight night weights?

Anyone know them?

AlmightyCushion

walshb wrote: »

In the octagon fight night weights?

Anyone know them?

If the fight is in California then they do record and publish the fighter's weight on fight night. Outside of that I don't think anywhere else does it, definitely not Nevada and Fight Island any way. I really wish it was done for every fight, the information is interesting.

Mellor

evil_seed wrote: »

Go watch all the weigh ins. The guy did the same for everyone

Beersmith wrote: »

No he didn't. Go watch them and he always allowed the balance arm to come back downward.

That should be a fairly straightforward argument to settle. The full video is there.

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

If the fight is in California then they do record and publish the fighter's weight on fight night. Outside of that I don't think anywhere else does it, definitely not Nevada and Fight Island any way. I really wish it was done for every fight, the information is interesting.

There's one other place released them ,can't remember where though. But yeah, def not Nevada or Abu Dhabi.
I think it interesting too, and it also shuts down a lot of madness after the fights

AlmightyCushion

Mellor wrote: »

There's one other place released them ,can't remember where though. But yeah, def not Nevada or Abu Dhabi.
I think it interesting too, and it also shuts down a lot of madness after the fights

Yeah, it is very interesting. I remember for Garbrandt Dillashaw 2, which was in California, on fight night 2 fighters were over the limit for the division that was 2 divisions above them. Perez weighed 126 at the official weigh ins and then on the night weighed more than 146. The other was 135 at the weigh ins and more than 156 on fight night. Those are some crazy cuts. Perez who weighed 146 on the night while fighting at 125, was actually a few pounds heavier than Garbrandt who was fighting at 135. Most of the guys fighting at 135 that night were a good bit heavier than Garbrandt and most of the guys fighting at 125 were either similar weight to Garbrandt of a bit heavier. So Cody seems relatively small for that division which makes his performances there even more impressive.

Alf Veedersane

Mellor wrote: »

Which suggests maybe he was comfortable with the equipment, and knew it was close enough to target weight. Especially if he did it with others.


And even if he was 1/4 lb over. What would that change?
Gathje still fights Khabib, he's eligible to become champ.
1/4lb doesn't change anything about the outcome.
Khabib still wins.
And he still retires are the undefeated champion with a 29-0 record.

He didn't it with Gaethje anyway. Or pretty much everyone. He at least waited for the bar to come down and see where it was likely to settle.

I don't disagree that Khabib still win either way. But you either make championship weight or you don't. There is no 'close enough'.

But it seems he did out the back so maybe it's much ado about nothing.

Mellor

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

But you either make championship weight or you don't. There is no 'close enough'.

That’s not actually true. You can be over 155 and still make championship weight.
Weights are rounded to nearest half pound, sometimes to the pound depending on commission.
GSP once weigh in at 170.9 for a Welterweight which was classed as making 170.

The contender misses and it changes to non-title. But champ can miss and nothing really happens other than a fibe.

Alf Veedersane

Mellor wrote: »

That’s not actually true. You can be over 155 and still make championship weight.
Weights are rounded to nearest half pound, sometimes to the pound depending on commission.
GSP once weigh in at 170.9 for a Welterweight which was classed as making 170.

That's still making the weight if the rules allow for 155.4 or 155.9 to be considered 155.

Ultimately it doesn't change the result. I just don't think it would be glossed over so easily if it was Jones, for example, that had been on the scales. Maybe I'm wrong.

Beersmith

Mellor wrote: »

That should be a fairly straightforward argument to settle. The full video is there.




There's one other place released them ,can't remember where though. But yeah, def not Nevada or Abu Dhabi.
I think it interesting too, and it also shuts down a lot of madness after the fights

https://youtu.be/okEA5d1Ebe4

Yeah and I watched them all. He waited until the balance (or whatever its called) on the left went downward if it first went up except for khabib. I don't know how anyone can argue otherwise!

H8GHOTI

I agree, the weigh-in looks suspicious. Let’s say for arguments sake, there was a cover up & he was 156lbs. What difference does it make?
He totally outclassed Gaethje & I don’t think him weighing 155 or 156 the day previous to the fight makes a difference. He was just better.

Alf Veedersane

H8GHOTI wrote: »

I agree, the weigh-in looks suspicious. Let’s say for arguments sake, there was a cover up & he was 156lbs. What difference does it make?

I don't disagree about the result. But making the weight is part of the game.

ASOT

Khabib got his wish

#1 on the p4p list.

https://www.mmafighting.com/2020/10/27/21536655/khabib-nurmagomedov-overtakes-jon-jones-as-the-no-1-pound-for-pound-fighter-in-ufc-rankings

The Nal

Apologies if already posted but DC speaking to Helwani saying Khabib changed from an armbar to a triangle choke as he didn't think Justin would tap and didn't want to break his arm in front of Justins family.

Just toying with him on the ground.

"He told me when he was watching the interviews over the course of the week, he saw that Justin said he would never tap. Justin would never tap.

So when he was going to the submission, he said it was his dad’s favourite position, into the mounted position going into the armbar, going into the triangle, he said it was his father’s favourite submission.

So when he got there, he was going to do the armbar. But he had heard Justin say all week that he would never tap and he didn’t want to hurt him in front of his parents. So he went to the triangle and just kind of put him to sleep.

I promise you. He actually told me that. Where he goes, ‘I didn’t want to hurt him in front of his parents, so I said I’m going to put him in the triangle. If he goes to sleep, he goes to sleep, you wake up, you’re fine.

That’s exactly what he told me. He didn’t want to hurt Justin in front of his parents.”