UFC 254 - Khabib v Gaethje

mdwexford

MrStuffins wrote: »

If we're talking GOAT, then I think I has to be Jones.

Shogun, Machida, Rampage, Rashad, Vitor, Gus, DC........ he beat them all.

Is there a better CV in MMA? I'm not sure!

Very few of those were in their prime when he beat them would be my thinking on it.

Mellor

eagle eye wrote: »

Did you see the weigh in? Nothing questionable about it for you?

What do you think actually happened with the weigh in? If the guy was planning to cheat the weigh in, why would he need to mess with the balance?
What weight do you think Khabib was in there?, same question for Gaethje?

Dtp1979

MrStuffins wrote: »

If we're talking GOAT, then I think I has to be Jones.

Shogun, Machida, Rampage, Rashad, Vitor, Gus, DC........ he beat them all.

Is there a better CV in MMA? I'm not sure!

Ah come on, how is this still a topic? Was Lance Armstrong the best cyclist of all time? Was Marion Jones the best female sprinter of all time? NO, they were prolific arrogant drug cheats , the exact same as Jones. Whatever about Jones being a scumbag outside the ufc, inside it he’s a known drug cheat. He should only be rated from the day he tested clean. So he’s about 2/3 fights in IMO

Alf Veedersane

yourdeadwright wrote: »

But........Then there the failed testes

You don't think it actually was Cialis, do you?

MrStuffins

mdwexford wrote: »

Very few of those were in their prime when he beat them would be my thinking on it.

Ah come on, they were all Championship calibre fighters and every one of them (bar Gus) was the World Champion at one point and most were legitimate #1 contenders at the time.

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Ah come on, how is this still a topic? Was Lance Armstrong the best cyclist of all time?

Yes

Dtp1979

MrStuffins wrote: »

Ah come on, they were all Championship calibre fighters and every one of them (bar Gus) was the World Champion at one point and most were legitimate #1 contenders at the time.



Yes

So you consider proven drug cheats as legitimate champs?

MrStuffins

Dtp1979 wrote: »

So you consider proven drug cheats as legitimate champs?

That's a different question.

Do I think Lance is the greatest cyclist? Yes!

Do I think Jon Jones is the greatest Mixed Martial Artist? Yes!

Dtp1979

MrStuffins wrote: »

That's a different question.

Do I think Lance is the greatest cyclist? Yes!

Do I think Jon Jones is the greatest Mixed Martial Artist? Yes!

Do you think they would have achieved what they did without cheating?

MrStuffins

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Do you think they would have achieved what they did without cheating?

With Lance, I don't see why not. It's pretty obvious that everyone else was juiced to the gills. It's a massive problem in the sport.

With Jon Jones, yes. Yes I do. But who knows?

Dtp1979

MrStuffins wrote: »

With Lance, I don't see why not. It's pretty obvious that everyone else was juiced to the gills. It's a massive problem in the sport.

With Jon Jones, yes. Yes I do. But who knows?

We know Jones was a proven repetitive cheat. So I know, and everyone knows. It’s a huge pity because it’s such a huge blemish on a fighter who probably could have done this clean. But that’s guesswork and we’ll never know. So to put him up there p4p against fighters who haven’t been proven cheats is unfair to clean fighters, especially khabib

Vestiapx

Chances are that many many fighters are juicing, the likleyhood that Jones and Dillashaw were running crazy while everyone else was eating chicken is very very slim.

But I agree you can't be the goat with a drugs hit. My money is on the first fighter to win two belts simultaneously.

keane2097

Lance isn't even close to the GOAT cyclist if you take away the drugs.

finglashoop

Vestiapx wrote: »

My money is on the first fighter to win two belts simultaneously.

Amanda Nunes

MrStuffins

Vestiapx wrote: »

My money is on the first fighter to win two belts simultaneously.

finglashoop wrote: »

Amanda Nunes

This guy wants a word.......

Mellor

mdwexford wrote: »

Very few of those were in their prime when he beat them would be my thinking on it.

Shogun was champ after dethroned a prime Machida (and arguable beat him previous)
Machida fight was c.2 years after he was LHW champ
Gus gave his career best performance imo
DC was undefeated and had just made in LHW debut (first fight), and won the HW belt shortly after (second fight). Definitely prime DC

Fair enough with Rampage, Evans etc. But those 5 were prime imo. The funny thing with Jones was, when he beat guys, he made them reconsider their place in LHW and often was the catelyst for the end of their career.
Perfect example is Shogun.

The Ayatolla

Cough.

Mellor

Dtp1979 wrote: »

We know Jones was a proven repetitive cheat. So I know, and everyone knows. It’s a huge pity because it’s such a huge blemish on a fighter who probably could have done this clean. But that’s guesswork and we’ll never know. So to put him up there p4p against fighters who haven’t been proven cheats is unfair to clean fighters, especially khabib

At which point do you think Jones started cheating? At which point do you think he was dethroned without the drugs? Genuine question.

keane2097 wrote: »

Lance isn't even close to the GOAT cyclist if you take away the drugs.

Take away the drugs and they're no cycllists left.

Jones is a better mixed martial artist than Khabib. It's not even close. Khabib has one incredible skill and good at another or too.

The Floyd p

Deleted User wrote: »

Jones is a better mixed martial artist than Khabib. It's not even close. Khabib has one incredible skill and good at another or too.

Jones is a good clinch fighter now, that's all. He was gifted a decision win over Reyes who himself is flawed. And was battered by Santos as well.

Mellor

Deleted User wrote: »

Jones is a better mixed martial artist than Khabib. It's not even close. Khabib has one incredible skill and good at another or too.

Jones is more well rounded, closer to elite in more areas. That's obvious.
But I'm not sure that you can say that being better in more areas = better mixed martial artist over all.

Khabib is further ahead in grappling than Jones is in any area. Khabib is the best grappler the sport has seen.

eagle eye

MidlanderMan wrote:

There could be an arguement that if there was a 10lbs difference between weight classes he could fit better at 165 with the likes of Diaz, RDA, Cowboy etc, but the division doesn't exist, so the arguement is stupid.

He wouldn't be small at welterweight, it's well known he often gets up to 190 when not in camp.

He looked bigger than ever last night. I'm not saying he was always that big on fight night. I was very skeptical about the weigh in, I posted that long before the fight.

It looked like a welterweight fighting a lightweight to me last night. Size difference was clearly massive.

Mellor

eagle eye wrote: »

He wouldn't be small at welterweight, it's well known he often gets up to 190 when not in camp.

He looked bigger than ever last night. I'm not saying he was always that big on fight night. I was very skeptical about the weigh in, I posted that long before the fight.

It looked like a welterweight fighting a lightweight to me last night. Size difference was clearly massive.

His weight when not in camp is irrelevant. His fight week weight is what matters.
I think you are overstating the difference. But I’m interested in you thoughts on my question from earlier.

Mellor wrote:

What do you think actually happened with the weigh in? If the guy was planning to cheat the weigh in, why would he need to mess with the balance?
What weight do you think Khabib was in there?, same question for Gaethje?

Esse85

This one man argument about the size/weight "advantage" is ridiculous and should not even be entertained.

For the record, there are many fighers who were cutting considerate weight to be the bigger man in different divisions yet found that their performance improved when they actually went up a weight. On reflection they said that the extreme weight cut effected their performance.

derfderf

Esse85 wrote: »

This one man argument about the size/weight "advantage" is ridiculous and should not even be entertained.

For the record, there are many fighers who were cutting considerate weight to be the bigger man in different divisions yet found that their performance improved when they actually went up a weight. On reflection they said that the extreme weight cut effected their performance.

Whittaker for one. Said his whole camp used to focus on the weight cut, now they actually focus on training.
Gaethje is another one that doesn't cut a lot of weight. That probably emphasized Khabib being the bigger fighter at the weekend.

In saying that, I don't think Khabib would be one who'd benefit from moving up. His size and strength are a huge part of his gameplan. That would suffer if he moved up. That's without mentioning how many more strong wrestlers there are at welterweight.

Tazzimus

MrStuffins wrote: »

This guy wants a word.......

The juiciest of organisations.

keane2097

Edit - not really relevant

AbusesToilets

That is one area that has me curious, is Khabib that much stronger than everyone else in the division? I know he's hugely technically skilled, but being able to overpower his opponents plays a large part in his style. Would he be that much stronger than McGregor for example, or Lee?

Tazzimus

AbusesToilets wrote: »

That is one area that has me curious, is Khabib that much stronger than everyone else in the division? I know he's hugely technically skilled, but being able to overpower his opponents plays a large part in his style. Would he be that much stronger than McGregor for example, or Lee?

Don't think it's so much a strength thing as a style thing. His style of grappling is to smother you and make you carry as much of his weight as possible while he's getting you flattened on the mat. That's exhausting, especially when he's so relentless with it.

He also has ridiculous back and lat muscles from doing that all his life, so he does have strength in him when he needs to power through something.

eagle eye

Mellor wrote:

His weight when not in camp is irrelevant. His fight week weight is what matters. I think you are overstating the difference. But I’m interested in you thoughts on my question from earlier.

As regards the weigh in, I don't think he waited for the bar to stop.
Khabib looked like death warmed up at the weigh in.
As regards their weights in the ring, I have no idea but there looked to be a big difference in size and weight.

froog

Esse85 wrote: »

This one man argument about the size/weight "advantage" is ridiculous and should not even be entertained.

For the record, there are many fighers who were cutting considerate weight to be the bigger man in different divisions yet found that their performance improved when they actually went up a weight. On reflection they said that the extreme weight cut effected their performance.

weight is a huge advantage in MMA. it's why conor looked invincible at FW and more human at LW and WW. it's definitely a big thing in khabibs favour. he should be fighting at WW. just like conor had no real business fighting at FW.