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UFC 254 - Khabib v Gaethje

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    #332
    Eoinbmw
    Registered Users Posts: 1,566 ✭✭✭Eoinbmw


    Like him or hate him the man is a complete machine!


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    #333
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,517 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    MrStuffins wrote:
    Not surprised with the amount of bitterness in here this evening.

    What are you not surprised? What makes you such an expert in how people will act?

    I'm the type of guy who loves greatness. Michael Jordan is my favourite sportsman ever, Usain Bolt, Tom Brady and in UFC GSP, Anderson Silva, Jon Jones and if current champions, Volkanovski, Adesanya, Usman and the recently retired Cejudo. I like some others a lot but love the best.
    I have always said that Khabib is one of the greats but he hasn't done enough to be out on his own as the GOAT. He's never fought a high level grappler, he clearly is well big enough to have fought at welterweight where there are serious grapplers. If he'd moved up and win the title there he'd be the GOAT.
    Instead he's stayed in a division bereft of grapplers where he's had a huge size advantage on fight night.


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    #334
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,148 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    eagle eye wrote: »
    What are you not surprised?

    Because there are always the certain type of person who have something in them that will look for something to pull someone down first before even trying to recognise how great someone is.

    "Oh he climbed Kilimanjaro? Yeah but it's no Everest is it?"

    It's pretty sad!


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    #335
    nerd69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,632 ✭✭✭nerd69


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    Because there are always the certain type of person who have something in them that will look for something to pull someone down first before even trying to recognise how great someone is.

    "Oh he climbed Kilimanjaro? Yeah but it's no Everest is it?"

    It's pretty sad!

    In fairness if someone's saying they don't think he's the goat that's hardly saying he's ****. Your everest analogy makes sense but if you where talking about the goat mountain climber that would be a valid point


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    #336
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,148 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    nerd69 wrote: »
    In fairness if someone's saying they don't think he's the goat that's hardly saying he's ****. Your everest analogy makes sense but if you where talking about the goat mountain climber that would be a valid point

    Exactly...... "if".

    The negative posts started before the GOAT talk. Sure, when someone mentioned this GOAT business they continued, but the "He's boring" and the "He's the bigger fighter" stuff was before that.

    Stands to reason it would continue when the GOAT tag was brought up


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    #337
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,517 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    MrStuffins wrote:
    The negative posts started before the GOAT talk. Sure, when someone mentioned this GOAT business they continued, but the "He's boring" and the "He's the bigger fighter" stuff was before that.
    Well I mentioned the size difference early on during the fight.
    I never got involved loved in the hiring talk.


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    #338
    Fromvert
    Registered Users Posts: 5,081 ✭✭✭Fromvert


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    Not surprised with the amount of bitterness in here this evening.

    "He hasn't fought anybody"
    "He's too big"
    "He's boring to watch"

    There are always going to be those types. Almost every time it's a reflection of themselves, their own inadequacies.

    Like it or not, the guy is the best LW on the planet. He's fought all comers and he's made minced-meat of them all.

    Up until now the only thing anyone could even say about him was either "Michael Johnson rocked him" or "Dustin Poirier almost caught him in a guillotine".

    Even if either of those things were true (they're not) both of those fights ended with Khabib's opponent tapping.

    The man is incredible!

    The man is incredible, in the goat conversation. Jones still the best for me, slightly. (I know you're not arguing against the below but just quoted you to agree he is incredible)

    But **** me Gaethje was garbage and needs to be called on it. His defensive grappling was terrible, if a certain Irish man offered up that, he'd be crucified rightly.

    Gaethje was a top level wrestler but wants to strike and looks like a man that has spent no more than a wet week on his back in the last decade. He was triangled! Who the **** gets triangled, it's literally disappeared from high level MMA in the last decade


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    #339
    Esse85
    Registered Users Posts: 8,236 ✭✭✭Esse85


    Not sure how Jones can be considered GOAT over Khabib.
    How many times has Jon tested positive for steroids?


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    #340
    Mister Vain
    Registered Users Posts: 6,040 ✭✭✭Mister Vain


    Esse85 wrote: »
    Not sure how Jones can be considered GOAT over Khabib.
    How many times has Jon tested positive for steroids?
    Not only that, some of his fights were very close. I actually thought he lost his last fight. Whereas Khabib has dominated everyone.


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    #341
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users Posts: 20,523 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    To me Khabib can not be goat
    He fights at a time of 3 or four champ champs and he never once stepped up, to me he simply can be the goat or the p4p number one because of that,


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    #342
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users Posts: 20,523 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    Fromvert wrote: »
    The man is incredible, in the goat conversation. Jones still the best for me, slightly. (I know you're not arguing against the below but just quoted you to agree he is incredible)

    But **** me Gaethje was garbage and needs to be called on it. His defensive grappling was terrible, if a certain Irish man offered up that, he'd be crucified rightly.

    Gaethje was a top level wrestler but wants to strike and looks like a man that has spent no more than a wet week on his back in the last decade. He was triangled! Who the **** gets triangled, it's literally disappeared from high level MMA in the last decade

    Khabib is unreal but getting triangled from mount without firstt suffering a complete beat down at that level is embarrassing


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    #343
    dubrov
    Registered Users Posts: 3,548 ✭✭✭dubrov


    Gaethje was really disappointing on the ground.
    I know Khabib is good but both times he gave up full mount within 30 seconds.


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    #344
    Too Tough To Die
    Registered Users Posts: 2,056 ✭✭✭Too Tough To Die


    The cynic in me thinks Khabib knows he's done at the weight and doesn't fancy his chances one division up.


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    #345
    Esse85
    Registered Users Posts: 8,236 ✭✭✭Esse85


    Mister Vain wrote: »
    Not only that, some of his fights were very close. I actually thought he lost his last fight. Whereas Khabib has dominated everyone.

    He was very lucky in a few.
    Dominic Reyes his last fight comes to mind.

    If Jones goes on to dominate HW division and is clean then he's right up there.

    But for me, he's a serial cheater and what he's done in the LHW division comes with an asterisk as a result of being caught with steroids in his system on more than one occasion.


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    #346
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,024 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    eagle eye wrote: »
    It was a very dodgy weigh in. The bar appeared to be still moving when he called the weight.

    If you don't agree with that no point talking to you. If you didn't notice the size difference tonight you are as blind as a bat.

    If the official wanted to cheat the weigh in. Would have been easy to take his weight and call out 155.


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    #347
    The Nal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    You can see why Justin was so wary of the takedown. Man vs boy on the ground. Easy night for Khabib.

    Hes right up there with the GOATs but still have Jones, GSP and Silva ahead of him. Maybe Fedor. They've fought and beaten better quality opponents over a longer period of time.

    Also have to consider Khabibs first 16 wins were in a 3 year period against nobodies. Not to say Khabib couldn't beat everyone at 155 if he continued mind you. He looked better than ever last night.. 13-0 in the UFC and only lost one round from 60 in his career. Ridiculous.


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    #348
    froog
    Registered Users Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭froog


    Disappointed the main event wasn't competitive. Khabib really did a number on him. Justin was gassed very quickly from the constant pressure. Nice finish from khabib.

    The rest of the card was enjoyable, plenty of finishes.


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    #349
    Whelo79
    Registered Users Posts: 2,649 ✭✭✭Whelo79


    I was very, very disappointed in Justin's wrestling/takedown defence/ground game. Pretty close to zero defense was offered up. Controlled, guard passed and mounted with ease. McGregor (who supposedly can't wrestle) done a far superior job v Khabib.


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    #350
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,024 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    MidlanderMan wrote: »
    But his transition to mount both rounds was phenomenal. The transition from head and arm triangle to mounted triangle attempted to armbar setup and back to the triangle was grappling at a level that only a handful of people on earth, most of them BJJ world champions, are capable of.
    The takedowns and transitions to mount (both rounds) were incredible. But you are vastly overstating the triangle.

    The mount to triangle was pretty standard imo.
    If anything the initial triangle was kinda loose hence the switch to armbar. A clean finish on top first time would have been “better”.
    The biggest takeaway for me from that sequence was that Gaethje was terrible and dived into it head first.
    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    Khabib is unreal but getting triangled from mount without firstt suffering a complete beat down at that level is embarrassing

    ^This


    Funny the way McGregor was slated for tapping. And “found out” by Khabib. But Gaethje was simply outclassed.
    Genuinely disappointed that Khabib is likely retired. Although, contradicts comments he made earlier in the week.


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    #351
    Fall_Guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 776 ✭✭✭Fall_Guy


    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    To me Khabib can not be goat
    He fights at a time of 3 or four champ champs and he never once stepped up, to me he simply can be the goat or the p4p number one because of that,

    I get where you are coming from, but the man has arguably never lost a round in his whole UFC career. Maybe mcgregor took a round off him when he took the time to get his wind back after putting a lot into the beating he handed out in round 2 of their fight, but thats it.

    I know the rounds in the Tibau fight early in his UFC tenure were close but I still gave them all to Khabib.

    I don't think there's any other fighter in history that can claim to have had that level of dominance throughout their career. It certainly trumps any of the recent "champ champ"s career achievements for me, given that each of them has been soundly beaten at least once.

    Granted you can argue that most of his early fights were against sub-par opposition, but the level of dominance he displayed against the best lightweights on the planet over the last few years sort of nullifies that argument i think.

    He definitely has a legitimate claim to the title of lb 4 lb GOAT for me, and if he was to have decided to fight on for a year or 2 more I think he would have put it beyond doubt to be honest.


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    #352
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,517 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    The Nal wrote:
    You can see why Justin was so wary of the takedown. Man vs boy on the ground. Easy night for Khabib.
    Man vs boy size wise too.


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    #353
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,024 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Fall_Guy wrote: »
    I get where you are coming from, but the man has arguably never lost a round in his whole UFC career. Maybe mcgregor took a round off him when he took the time to get his wind back after putting a lot into the beating he handed out in round 2 of their fight, but thats it.
    There’s no maybe, McGregor took a round off him. Factually, officially, whatever we want to call it.
    I know the rounds in the Tibau fight early in his UFC tenure were close but I still gave them all to Khabib.
    He got the official decision, but I felt Tibau was robbed. But record books are only concerned with official results. So fact remains.
    I don't think there's any other fighter in history that can claim to have had that level of dominance throughout their career. It certainly trumps any of the recent "champ champ"s career achievements for me, given that each of them has been soundly beaten at least once.

    Granted you can argue that most of his early fights were against sub-par opposition, but the level of dominance he displayed against the best lightweights on the planet over the last few years sort of nullifies that argument i think.

    He definitely has a legitimate claim to the title of lb 4 lb GOAT for me, and if he was to have decided to fight on for a year or 2 more I think he would have put it beyond doubt to be honest.
    Agree with all of this. Maybe he hasn’t push himself climbing divisions, or fighting for longer at the top. But that’s his choice. Being undefeated was very important to him.


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    #354
    Esse85
    Registered Users Posts: 8,236 ✭✭✭Esse85


    I will be disappointed if I don't see Khabib fight again.
    Is there other more exciting fighters in the division, absolutely.

    He's only 32, still many years left in him. He's in his prime, not like his performances are dipping,the opposite in fact.

    He's not fully appreciated or understood for his talents. In time people might look back and appreciate his contribution to the sport more, but for now, he's not getting the credit he deserves for being so vastly dominant in his fights, undefeated, fought the very best, hardly lost many rounds, never failed a steroid test, the likes of that doesn't come around too often in a sport where it can be game over in a second.

    It seems the typical armchair fan has more appreciation for KOs and trash talking rather than the skills and technique needed for ground and pound.


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    #355
    Brussels Sprout
    Registered Users Posts: 6,521 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    https://twitter.com/i/status/1320167968630837250


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    #356
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Khabib's takedown was one the best ever executed in the UFC.


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    #357
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,517 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    That twitter video is mad. Khabib is so much bigger you can't even see Gaethje at points.


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    #358
    Liamo08
    Registered Users Posts: 338 ✭✭Liamo08


    eagle eye wrote: »
    That twitter video is mad. Khabib is so much bigger you can't even see Gaethje at points.
    eagle eye wrote: »
    Man vs boy size wise too.
    eagle eye wrote: »
    You just had to look at the size of the two of them. There was a huge difference, you'd want to be blind not to see it.
    eagle eye wrote: »
    Well I mentioned the size difference early on during the fight.
    I never got involved loved in the hiring talk.
    eagle eye wrote: »
    Simple fact of the matter is that Gaethje was beaten before that fight started. Dodgy weigh in yesterday and we seen a big welterweight fighting a lightweight tonight.
    Very unfair to everybody.
    eagle eye wrote: »
    If Khabib fights again it should be at welterweight.
    eagle eye wrote: »
    He's up there but never faced really too class fighters.
    If he'd moved up to welter and won the belt there I'd agree that he's be the goat.

    Like he has a huge size advantage at lightweight.
    eagle eye wrote: »
    Dominant performance but the difference in size was very noticeable.
    It was like a lightweight vs big welterweight.

    I don't understand how he can get that big in 24 hours.

    Like the size advantage was huge.
    eagle eye wrote: »
    Khabib looks at least a stone heavier, looks like fighters from two different weight classes.

    So do you think Khabib was bigger or what’s the story?


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    #359
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    eagle eye wrote: »
    That twitter video is mad. Khabib is so much bigger you can't even see Gaethje at points.

    is this sort of rubbish being put out there why he is so dominant?

    he doesn't look that much bigger to me.

    they both get weighed the day before and that's the long and short of it.

    Khabib has a lean wiry build to start with.

    Gaethje looks broader even in this clip ffs

    It's not like McGregor fighting midgets at 145


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    #360
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Liamo08 wrote: »
    So do you think Khabib was bigger or what’s the story?

    on the spectrum that stuff


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    #361
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,595 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Both similar sized men..

    Not sure fight night weights, but I’d assume both close to 170 lbs..

    I don’t think any size was relevant.

    Gaetje fought with little confidence/assuredness. Poor feet, poor eye contact and just kind of swinging and hoping. He did not stand firm, strong, imposing....and this gave the false vibe that he was outmatched physically..

    Separate: just saw the Cutelaba fight. Lovely KO. Very unlikable chap.


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