How would you feel if restrictions were lifted?

Hector Savage

kippy wrote: »

I'd be packing up the family and as many supplies as I could and heading off to the nearest uninhabited island for a few months, 6 or 7 maybe.

Thankfully it's not likely or possible that any politician would do that.......even the more alternative ones.
I'd also try get you on a watch list of some description.

Yep some people loving this and wanting it to go on and on .... and a watchlist ? you'd be just the type to call the stasi police on neighbours, I thought people like you didn;t exist anymore...

Graham

Hector Savage wrote: »

Yep some people loving this and wanting it to go on and on .... and a watchlist ? you'd be just the type to call the stasi police on neighbours, I thought people like you didn;t exist anymore...

"Stasi police" is just laughable in the face of the current light touch approach.

Zebra3

Antares35 wrote: »

Gawd can we get a ban on the use of the term "virtue signalling"... It's more rampant than covid these days.

These things you've listed are not mutually exclusive and are therefore irrelevant to the discussion really. Also how do you figure people who care about restriction compliance don't care about other issues?

Because I know people with these attitudes.

paw patrol

Graham wrote: »

"Stasi police" is just laughable in the face of the current light touch approach.

thats due to the garda but hasn't stopped hordes of concerned citizens ringing the garda station nor the the local bussybodies trying to shame/call out their neighbours on social media.
Go to any facebook page for residents committees and the usual suspects are crying our for a garda crackdown on fun, naming and attempting to shame.
Ive even seen sneaky photos taken and put up on facebook

One fella (late30/early 40s) even complained on the fb page about my kids visiting their pals (in lusk) to play on the green. moron. wouldn't say it to me though.

gozunda

paw patrol wrote: »

I'm a bit late to this thread.
OP - I'm fully with you on this. The notion of lockdown or restrictions is immoral and stupid.
The people who are vulnerable should take steps (and receive support from the state) to protect themselves. The rest of us should be able to make risk assessment and judgement to our activities.
Using the pub as an example but it applies to all social settings:If you are vulnerable you should be in a the pub EVER tbh...or you are taking a risk , during covid or flu season or any time tbh. If you are caring for a vulnerable person you should not be down the pub either. People will talk about vulnerable people catching covid but where will that happen? Where will they be in close contact to people who are taking risk assessments? There is no evidence that it is transmitted in shops or supermarkets - despite supermarkets being open and doing a roaring trade - Dunnes Stores best year ever say the financials - there is any major outbreak among staff. You can order online anyway.And the HSE say that to be a close contact you must be 15mins with a person , this doesn't happen in a shop setting. If you are worried you can follow the current restrictions as guidelines - they'll limit your exposure. Work from home too.
Something tells me most of the posters agree and support the current rules so what is the problem , you are all protecting yourselves , that is good to see.

I don't follow the restrictions , my life is too important to me to waste my time doing stuff I don't believe in.

Anybody in my life who would be a close contact knows how I behave and acts accordingly . I have some close friends/family I've not seen because our life choices are not compatible and both sides fully accept this. But for some reason instead of allowing people behave in accordance with their own risk assessment and life choices the state decides to shut the whole fcuking thing down. They are absolute $h1tehawks ,as are some of the posters on this thread with a special mention to: what a weird comment only that only an utter gimp would say. It's people like you ruin society with your slavish deference the to government and its' commands . No doubt you will be curtain twitching on Halloween taking notes of the people who aren't living in fear. pathetic.

Quite the expert eh?

Reality works like this - those who are vulnerable including old people, young people with conditions such as diabetes and asthma and others cannot simply lock themselves up alone in a room with no contact whatsoever.

Old people are dependant on carers, sick people on medical staff etc etc. Vulnerable children live with the parents and siblings and parents go to work and children go to school.

It only takes one eejit "I'm all right Jack" to infect either a carer or a medical staff or even a family member of one of these to fuk up an entire nursing home or hospital.

But hey go ahead - you're way to important for that crap eh.

One thing for sure - those trying to make sure hospitals are not overrun and helping to reduce the number of people bieng infected and dying are doing it right.

Tbh Its all too easy to spot the real "$h1tehawks" and "gimps' who bizarrely think they know better.

Graham

paw patrol wrote: »

thats due to the garda but hasn't stopped hordes of concerned citizens ringing the garda station nor the the local bussybodies trying to shame/call out their neighbours on social media.
Go to any facebook page for residents committees and the usual suspects are crying our for a garda crackdown on fun

Would I be correct to assume your version of fun involves multiple people socialising regardless to the consequences of a deadly pandemic and its main method of spreading via private homes?

That sort of fun?

bb1234567

GT89 wrote: »

The military trucks supposedly carrying coffins was a likely a false flag. Those trucks were likely empty 43,155 deaths in the UK supposedly but no army truck trucks carrying coffins over there at any point.

Wonder did Italy count all the people who died of covid or all the people who died with covid alongside underlying conditions. 99% of deaths there had an underlying condition.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-18/99-of-those-who-died-from-virus-had-other-illness-italy-says

Deaths in the UK were much more spread out in terms of time and across the country. Lombardy was proportionally hit much worse than the rest of Italy, and the outbreak grew remarkably quickly.
Excess deaths in Bergamo were 0.55% of the city's population, which is 1.1 million, so a similar size to Dublin. That's over 6000 extra deaths in about an 8 week period in the city. False flags the military trucks were certainly not, there was simply an astonishingly high death rate in Bergamo in March and April. Not far off Spanish flu levels for this city.

Of course in some senses it was dramatised, the bodies didn't need to be transportted by the military surely,and could probably have been transported at different times of the day or consective days rather than dozens of trucks all moving off at once. But yeh, there's really no underplaying how many people died in cities in Lombardy regardless.

ThewhiteJesus

Personally i'd be delighted but i'd be worried about my elderly parents is the honest answer.

fly_agaric

paw patrol wrote: »

The notion of lockdown or restrictions is immoral and stupid.
...
I don't follow the restrictions , my life is too important to me to waste my time doing stuff I don't believe in.

That is it in a nutshell really.

Nicely encapsulates a major factor in why "we" have failed to control the virus in this country (and across Europe it seems also).

If it really goes to shít over the coming weeks, all the errors of Michael Martin, Leo Varadkar, the government, the HSE/public sector will be wheeled out and picked over.

Nothing to do with "me" and my choices.

Something tells me most of the posters agree and support the current rules so what is the problem , you are all protecting yourselves , that is good to see.

Nope, I think most of the "rules" are aimed at stopping a person spreading the virus if they have it.

Hector Savage

Graham wrote: »

"Stasi police" is just laughable in the face of the current light touch approach.

My point is people like that still exist (the callers), I'm not saying the police in Ireland are acting like the stasi..

paw patrol

gozunda wrote: »

Quite the expert eh?

Reality works like this - those who are vulnerable including old people, young people with conditions such as diabetes and asthma and others cannot simply lock themselves up alone in a room with no contact whatsoever.

Old people are dependant on carers, sick people on medical staff etc etc. Vulnerable children live with the parents and siblings.

It only takes one eejit "I'm all right Jack" to infect either a carer or a medical staff to fuk up an entire nursing home or hospital.

But hey go ahead - you're way to important for that crap eh.

One thing for sure - those trying to make sure hospitals are not overrun and helping to reduce the number of people bieng infected and dying are doing it right.

Tbh Its all too easy to spot the real "$h1tehawks" and "gimps' who bizarrely think they know better.

Assuming they are following to rules (as is) they aren't having contact anyway. People like me shouldn't be restricted (or punished as I see it) because people aren't honest about their behaviour. That's a mad situation where you are proposing rules to manage society based on exception cases. That's bang-on nanny statism there.

and in answer to your dig at me, yes my life is all I have it's very important to me . I don't think we are one hive mind but are all individuals and certainly not morally beholden to the state. If people expect some sort of thanks for "doing it for the team" they are sadly misled.

Graham wrote: »

Would I be correct to assume your version of fun involves multiple people socialising regardless to the consequences of a deadly pandemic and its main method of spreading via private homes?

That sort of fun?

suppose , fun can come in many guises.
And yes, I have had people over and I have visited people for nights on the piss. I'll be honest I'm 43, sadly a house party for me isn't the ones we've seen in the whatsapp video...getting 5 lads (and partners) out would be a huge party at my age. Its' usually 3 - 6 people.

fun means anything tbh.

deadly pandemic? Ebola is deadly, covid is not.
200k deaths in the USA for people with covid, yet 500k deaths from obesity in same period. Why the fuss over covid? Unless we want to live in permanent panic now?

fly_agaric wrote: »

That is it in a nutshell really.

Nicely encapsulates a major factor in why "we" have failed to control the virus in this country (and across Europe it seems also).

If it really goes to shít over the coming weeks, all the errors of Michael Martin, Leo Varadkar, the government, the HSE/public sector will be wheeled out and picked over.

Nothing to do with "me" and my choices.

Nope, I think most of the "rules" are aimed at stopping a person spreading the virus if they have it.

If I had it , I wouldn't be spreading it to vulnerable people only to those who chose to be around me. If you are worried take the required action and avoid risky situations. It's not hard to do and would be easier still with state support. I don't see my grandmother now cos she is 101 but we talk on the phone - we all know the score and that's just the way it is.



You won't stop the virus spreading unless you achieve zero covid in Ireland which won't happen unless you close the boarders. Then once they reopen ...BOOM covid again. It's here to stay we need to face up to the fact it needs to be embraced.

My father and father in law both said something that i admire them for, they'd rather risk covid and die that avoid seeing their families and grand kids. that's what living life is about - that shows true appreciation for living rather than surviving. That's my attitude.

Hector Savage

"deadly pandemic" - this kind of hyperbole nonsense!!!

gozunda

paw patrol wrote: »

Assuming they are following to rules (as is) they aren't having contact anyway. People like me shouldn't be restricted (or punished as I see it) because people aren't honest about their behaviour. That's a mad situation where you are proposing rules to manage society based on exception cases. That's bang-on nanny statism there.
and in answer to your dig at me, yes my life is all I have it's very important to me . I don't think we are one hive mind but are all individuals and certainly not morally beholden to the state. If people expect some sort of thanks for "doing it for the team" they are sadly misled.

Not even going to bother re-explaining in detail why everyone needs to pull together in this tbh. You know this - but apparently just don't give a damn. And do get a grip - no-one is "punishing" you. Its a pandemic and we are simply all expected to act like responsible adults and not kids throwing their toys out of the pram.
by the way that was simply an obvious reparaphrasing of your own multiple "digs" referring to posters as "gimps" and "$hitehawks" from your last comment.

Oddly enough though you've one thing correct when you say - your " life is all I have it's very important to me"

Well that's it in a nutshell. Everyone's life is important to them. And thats why we need to stop this infection running riot and overrunning medical services.

Graham

Hector Savage wrote: »

"deadly pandemic" - this kind of hyperbole nonsense!!!

Pandemic that has killed 1,087,069 people so far.

Does that work any better for you or were you looking for a more flowery description?

fly_agaric

paw patrol wrote: »

If I had it , I wouldn't be spreading it to vulnerable people only to those who chose to be around me. If you are worried take the required action and avoid risky situations. It's not hard to do and would be easier still with state support. I don't see my grandmother now cos she is 101 but we talk on the phone - we all know the score and that's just the way it is.

You won't stop the virus spreading unless you achieve zero covid in Ireland which won't happen unless you close the boarders. Then once they reopen ...BOOM covid again. It's here to stay we need to face up to the fact it needs to be embraced.

My father and father in law both said something that i admire them for, they'd rather risk covid and die that avoid seeing their families and grand kids. that's what living life is about - that shows true appreciation for living rather than surviving. That's my attitude.

Not much point in a long debate about it as we have very differrent views on this, never the twain will meet & all that...

I will just point out a few errors in statements underpinning your reasoning.

If you had it (you might not be aware of it of course) you cannot know who you may spread it to or who is at the end points of chains of infection you start. Probably someone you'll never meet, so out of sight out of mind.

There's very few places with "zero Covid" but there are places doing far better than Europe (and able to live without imposing blunt "lockdowns" etc) that we could take lessons from. Borders of such countries are not completely closed but admit they are restricted compared to a "normal" situation + inward travellers are going to have to put up with infringements on their liberties if they want to enter.

Hector Savage

Graham wrote: »

Pandemic that has killed 1,087,069 people so far.

Does that work any better for you or were you looking for a more flowery description?

If you're gonna call that a deadly pandemic, then you might as well call the yearly flu with between 200k and 600k deaths a "Very very dangerous" pandemic.

Tomrota

I still see people in public touching lots of things in shops or opening doors without sanitising and then touching their face. I feel like proper mask usage, proper hand sanitation usage and proper social distancing are the key to this, not further lockdowns and restrictions. The initial lockdown was fine, as I thought they were going to increase hospital bed capacity ten fold, but that never happened cause FFG or something.

Antares35

Zebra3 wrote: »

Because I know people with these attitudes.

Ah anecdotal evidence I say no more, you have convinced me.

Graham

Hector Savage wrote: »

If you're gonna call that a deadly pandemic

Ahhh ok, we're pretending over a million extra dead from a pandemic means the pandemic is somehow not deadly.

Got it.

I'm not sure there's any debating that kind of 'logic'.

bettyoleary

GT89 wrote: »

How would you honestly feel if the government turned around tommorrow and said the pubs can reopen to full capacity, all businneses can reopen that were closed, no more restrictions on gatherings, no more mandatory masks, people working from home should go back to work, full capacity on public transport, matches can go ahead with 80k fans, no more social distancing meaning life can return to exactly how it was before last March.

And this assumes that there is not a vaccine or effective treatment the virus would essientially be let loose. How would you feel and be 100% honest. Personally I would be delighted but know our spineless coward politicians would never have the balls to pull such a move.

This would result in not just the collapse of the health service but all other services. If the virus was allowed to rip community transmission would grow exponentially.Then firemen, guards, more teachers, gp's etc etc etc would get sick. They may not die, but they would be unable to work as many would have symptoms and be on sick leave.It would be total chaos. Why cant you see that?

gozunda

Hector Savage wrote: »

If you're gonna call that a deadly pandemic, then you might as well call the yearly flu with between 200k and 600k deaths a "Very very dangerous" pandemic.

Nope.

Common question. What is the definition of a pandemic?

A pandemic is defined as “an epidemic occurring worldwide, or over a very wide area, crossing international boundaries and usually affecting a large number of people”. The classical definition includes nothing about population immunity, virology or disease severity.

By this definition, pandemics can be said to occur annually in each of the temperate southern and northern hemispheres, given that seasonal epidemics cross international boundaries and affect a large number of people. However, seasonal epidemics are not considered pandemics.

bb1234567

Hector Savage wrote: »

If you're gonna call that a deadly pandemic, then you might as well call the yearly flu with between 200k and 600k deaths a "Very very dangerous" pandemic.

You can't compare an estimate with a confirmed figure. If we compare the 'estimated' deaths for COVID with estimated flu then you compare it with excess deaths. Excess deaths in Latin America are hundreds of thousands higher than the confirmed death toll

Peru Excess deaths 85,000, COVID deaths 33,000
Mexico excess deaths in August 122,000, confirmed covid deaths at the time 40,000
USA excess deaths 280,000 in September , covid deaths then 210,000


Etc..

That's 200,000 unexplained excess deaths during the pandemic in just 3 countries.
Even in Europe..countries like Spain, Netherlands and UK excess deaths are 50-100% higher than the official covid death toll.

We won't know the official estimated glonbal covid death toll for a good while until it is long over and there have been many studies done on it. Only then could you compare it to the estimated flu death toll

GT89

bettyoleary wrote: »

This would result in not just the collapse of the health service but all other services. If the virus was allowed to rip community transmission would grow exponentially.Then firemen, guards, more teachers, gp's etc etc etc would get sick. They may not die, but they would be unable to work as many would have symptoms and be on sick leave.It would be total chaos. Why cant you see that?

Did that happen in Belarus?

circadian

GT89 wrote: »

Did that happen in Belarus?

I think you should stop holding Belarus up as some sort of kryptonite for your argument. It's considered the last dictatorship in Europe, is actively suppressing open journalism and is in the midst of massive social upheaval. Getting actual useful information from a place like that is impossible.

CalamariFritti

Graham wrote: »

And if it wasn't published the tinfoil hatters would be screaming government cover up.

I'm not entirely sure it is possible to report the removal of hundreds of dead bodies without feeling any emotion.

I agree with you on all of this. I'm not saying it shouldn't be published. But it is part of that early panic picture that comes with models of 100,000 deaths or more in Ireland. It is now being used to counter what we since have learned about this disease.

As in how can people forget, nothing has changed.

When in reality, if we'd let this virus fly, no measures no distancing nothing, we probably would never even reach 5% of such a number and that would be over a long time.

bb1234567

GT89 wrote: »

Did that happen in Belarus?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_Freedom_Index
https://emerging-europe.com/news/belarus-named-as-one-of-worlds-10-most-censored-countries/
Have a quick look into the censorship in practice in Belarussian media before you bleat on anymore about what is occurring within what is effectively a dictatorship . You don't hear a single thing about Belarus that their government doesn't want you to.

Stick with Sweden if you want to glamorise an unrestricted covid expirement, Belarus' apparent success does not hold up in debate as it's lacking actual verifiable proof

GT89

circadian wrote: »

I think you should stop holding Belarus up as some sort of kryptonite for your argument. It's considered the last dictatorship in Europe, is actively suppressing open journalism and is in the midst of massive social upheaval. Getting actual useful information from a place like that is impossible.

True but the social upheaval there has nothing to do with covid it's because the leader is a dictator and they want a democracy. It does not appear that their health service has been overwhelmed and the poster I replied to was suggesting that there would be a state of chaos if there was no restrictions as there would be no Gardai as they would be all off sick.

That is not the case in Belarus and there appears to be no shortage of police and army to push back against the protestors.

bb1234567

GT89 wrote: »

True but the social upheaval there has nothing to do with covid it's because the leader is a dictator and they want a democracy. It does not appear that their health service has been overwhelmed and the poster I replied to was suggesting that there would be a state of chaos if there was no restrictions as there would be no Gardai as they would be all off sick.

That is not the case in Belarus and there appears to be no shortage of police and army to push back against the protestors.

How would you know whether the health service has been overwhelmed or not in Belarus? Do you think this would be allowed to be published in Belarussian media?

GT89

bb1234567 wrote: »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_Freedom_Index
https://emerging-europe.com/news/belarus-named-as-one-of-worlds-10-most-censored-countries/
Have a quick look into the censorship in practice in Belarussian media before you bleat on anymore about what is occurring within what is effectively a dictatorship . You don't hear a single thing about Belarus that their government doesn't want you to.

Stick with Sweden if you want to glamorise an unrestricted covid expirement, Belarus' apparent success does not hold up in debate as it's lacking actual verifiable proof

Well the news about the riots there seems to have gotten out. I can't see the government there wanting to inform the world that there's riots there.

Ok Belarus seems like a messed up country with serious issues I accept that but they seem to have the reaction to covid spot on. It does not appear their entire country is dead or seriously ill.

weldoninhio

bb1234567 wrote: »

Who supports China? What is the altnerative,some severe boycott of the largest country on earth which most countries of the wolrd have strong economic ties with? Should over a billion people endure some kind of hardship because a small number of people who make up their ruling government ****ed up?

I don't have faith many other countries woud have handled the initial outbreak much better. Imagine it had started in Brazil or Mexico, I think we would be even worse off at this point if that was the case

We don't mind sanctions hurting the little people in North Korea, Iran or Yemen. Where has the compassion for the little person come from??