How would you feel if restrictions were lifted?

lawred2

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Just goes to show, we are in lockdown anyway and getting used to it, so anything outside of lockdown is not normal now anymore..

we were actually never in a lockdown

we were in a highly restricted movement phase but nothing resembling the actual lockdowns that were experienced in China, Spain and Italy

weldoninhio

Graces7 wrote: »

Really? Have you been to Minsk lately? Also it is not only about deaths. Do you have any idea of the folk who are long term ill after covid? permanently disabled.

Ah the elusive "Long Covid" :D:D

weldoninhio

Oranage2 wrote: »

Hospitals would be overrun, then when they hit capacity people will have to deal with any illness by themselves covid or non covid, more will end up dying when they could have been treated. People will end up having to pay for private treatment which would cost people more then the extra tax they'd have to pay from the lockdowns.

Most work places that can work from home will still do.

Even if it's not mandatory private businesses and workplaces will still have a mask rule.

Overall it will cause a huge rich-poor divide. The rich would be able to pay for private hospitals and safe private schools whilst the rest will have to live life in fear, hoping not to get sick as it would be almost unaffordable.

Hospitals in Ireland are over run every winter. Are you new here?

The only difference this year is they have Covid as an excuse for it.

lawred2

weldoninhio wrote: »

Hospitals in Ireland are over run every winter. Are you new here?

The only difference this year is they have Covid as an excuse for it.

true - the scary thing is the amount of money being pumped in now for C19 will just disappear into an annual budget and nothing will really have changed for the better..

we'll still have the third world scourge of waiting lists and a two tier system that makes millionaires out of doctors.

weldoninhio

lawred2 wrote: »

true - the scary thing is the amount of money being pumped in now for C19 will just disappear into an annual budget and nothing will really have changed for the better..

we'll still have the third world scourge of waiting lists and a two tier system that makes millionaires out of doctors.

I'd love to see a comparison of the numbers in hospital, including ICU etc for this time last year vs this year. I doubt there's much difference.

lawred2

weldoninhio wrote: »

I'd love to see a comparison of the numbers in hospital, including ICU etc for this time last year vs this year. I doubt there's much difference.

I'm not really jumping on this train - without restrictions; we would without doubt overwhelm our pathetic hospital system..

I just know that more money has never been the solution to anything that the HSE has responsibility for. And C19 will prove no different. We will not see a reduction in the HSE budget post C19. Just a bigger budget and the same problems.

SeaBreezes

CalamariFritti wrote: »

I am serious, yes. If we are all masked up and socially distanced and we cant meet for years or for our lifetime, how do you meet your life partner?

Letting it loose in a controlled manner is EXACTLY what we are trying to do now? But it isnt working.

There.is NO SUCH THING as herd immuity. Its the ultimate gaslight. Especially for a coronavirus that weakens Tcells. We couldnt even get herd immunity for measles, without a vaccine, even though once you get it you are immune for life.

And this virus in the moderate to severe.cases reduces sperm production by 50%. They have no idea if its permanent, will.need to check in 6 months again.
So, the opposite might be true. Letting the virus loose may mean you can TRY to procreate all you want..

And allowing this virus free reign means more mutations, more variables, less vaccination oppertunities.

So, no. The only option should be, like NZ, taiwan, japan, south korea, china, s africa, singapore, hong kong and vietnam. Strict lockdown, wipe it out test trace isolate and better controls at airports.

circadian

GT89 wrote: »

There's a 0.00039% of that happening so I think I'd take my chances. My parents are healthy and not vulnerable so probably even less than that.

Sesame Street teaches better math and statistics than this.

There's a 0.00737372% chance of an asteroid hitting the earth on Saturday afternoon. I pulled that out of my hole and I'll stand by it!

smck321

Bit cynical wrote: »

We don't know how long immunity lasts with the virus as it hasn't been around that long. We do know that reinfections, as recently reported, are very rare. Moreover, for those waiting for a vaccine, we won't know how long immunity from that lasts either until the same amount of time has passed.

Nursing homes could easily have been better protected in Ireland by not moving infected patients into them from hospitals. A lot more is known about how to manage the virus and prevent it spreading in critical areas than in the early days.

There's no ideal solution though. Each has its problems.

Those of us advocating stricter lockdowns need to examine the assumptions they are making to support that course of action. Are we thinking there will be a vaccine in the early part of next year? How effective will the vaccine be? How long will it take to vaccinate everyone? How many will refuse the vaccine? How long will immunity last from it?

How will the economy be affected by a protracted lockdown? How will the health service function without funding if the economy is badly affected?

It sounds like theres still a lot of unanswered questions, dont you think it would be better to err on the side of caution rather than not to. The death and hospitalisation rate is creeping up with the number of active infections currently. The higher they go the more strain will be placed on our healthcare service.

You're right theres no answer here but in more cautious approach seems more correct in the balance of probabilities currently. By taking the approach of leaving things open and not preventing infections might help the economy at the cost of lives, the failure of the healthcare service which is already under strain and the eventual damage to the economy anyway due to the effects this has. It really is a case of perhaps the known unknowns are better than the unknown unknowns.

For an example of this look at the US, more open than us but economic data is shocking, people arent spending or going out. So theres this bizarre situation whereby businesses get to stay open while also watching their business struggle anyway.

bb1234567

GT89 wrote: »

How would you honestly feel if the government turned around tommorrow and said the pubs can reopen to full capacity, all businneses can reopen that were closed, no more restrictions on gatherings, no more mandatory masks, people working from home should go back to work, full capacity on public transport, matches can go ahead with 80k fans, no more social distancing meaning life can return to exactly how it was before last March.

And this assumes that there is not a vaccine or effective treatment the virus would essientially be let loose. How would you feel and be 100% honest. Personally I would be delighted but know our spineless coward politicians would never have the balls to pull such a move.

Why would be delighted? I can understand that some people might think the current restrctions are overly cautious and not balanced with the effect on the economy, sure, but completely unnecessary events like gathering mass crowds at a concert is not important to the economy or livelihoods of any significant number of people and will undoubtedly leads to hundreds or even thousands of deaths being caused and significant distress on our healthcare system. I don't see how you could be glad about that happening unless you were sadistic and hoping for chaos/collapse

No politician will suggest it not because they are spineless but mass gatherings are not in the best interest of anyone in the country right now

bb1234567

GT89 wrote: »

Maybe but not by much. No restrictions in Belarus but yet dead bodies are not lining the streets of Minsk so why would it be any different here. Are Irish people more susceptible to covid than Belarussians?

Relaxed restrictons in Mexico and Brazil and yet worse case scenario. So why risk it for a ducking day out at croker. Jesus H crhist this thread is scary

endacl

GT89 wrote: »

Maybe but not by much. No restrictions in Belarus but yet dead bodies are not lining the streets of Minsk so why would it be any different here. Are Irish people more susceptible to covid than Belarussians?

Feck off to Minsk so. And stop posting shyte here.

Antares thanks for responding. I read my post back and my reference to what you wrote seemed a bit off. Of course you weren't saying that you didn't care and I knew that. My apologies. My frustrations can be misplaced too.

I think I see the reactions of others in a different light to most. It's no surprise to me that those moaning about no pub or football match would irritate. As I wrote in my post where we are is bigger than all of us. However it just shows me the longing some have for normality and that's something I empathise with.

Extreme responses and opinions in my view come from a place of coping. Take the OP of this thread for example, people are annoyed with him. They see him as being selfish, reckless, ridiculous. I see something different. I see desperation and fear and struggle.

It's the same for those who want us to lock down and stay inside and never set foot in a social setting until a vaccine is found. Some will ridicule them. Again they aren't understanding that it's a position taken from anxiety and worry and fear.

The above is just an opinion I have and I maybe completely off the mark.

bb1234567

Deleted User wrote: »

Antares thanks for responding. I read my post back and my reference to what you wrote seemed a bit off. Of course you weren't saying that you didn't care and I knew that. My apologies. My frustrations can be misplaced too.

I think I see the reactions of others in a different light to most. It's no surprise to me that those moaning about no pub or football match would irritate. As I wrote in my post where we are is bigger than all of us. However it just shows me the longing some have for normality and that's something I empathise with.

Extreme responses and opinions in my view come from a place of coping. Take the OP of this thread for example, people are annoyed with him. They see him as being selfish, reckless, ridiculous. I see something different. I see desperation and fear and struggle.

It's the same for those who want us to lock down and stay inside and never set foot in a social setting until a vaccine is found. Some will ridicule them. Again they aren't understanding that it's a position taken from anxiety and worry and fear.

The above is just an opinion I have and I maybe completely off the mark.

Sometimes posts of that nature have come across that way to me too, that they lash out because of a desperate desire for things to not be the way they are right now and to return to normal, it's the only thing I think can justify such callous indifference on the surface of such posts

bb1234567

bb1234567 wrote: »

Sometimes posts of that nature have come across that way to me too, that they lash out because of a desperate desire for things to not be the way they are right now and to return to normal, it's the only thing I think can justify such callous indifference on the surface of such posts

It is fascinating to step back and objectively observe the discourse that's taking place around Covid. Part of my work is all about human behaviour. The country is vulnerable and in trauma. People are impacted in different ways by both of those states. They can lose all rational thought and act purely from emotion, or they can go the opposite and take comfort in logic and statistics. They are just two possible responses. How we cope with this pandemic will be connected to who we are and our own lived experiences. These are unnatural times.

gozunda

GT89 wrote: »

Or maybe everyone could disregard the guidelines and then the guidelines would cease to exist. The problem is not people disobeying the guidelines the problem is people obeying them. The quicker people stopped following the guidelines the sooner we go back to normal.

On which planet?

GT89

GT89 wrote: »

Maybe but not by much. No restrictions in Belarus but yet dead bodies are not lining the streets of Minsk so why would it be any different here. Are Irish people more susceptible to covid than Belarussians?

How quickly we forget.

Bit cynical

smck321 wrote: »

It sounds like theres still a lot of unanswered questions, dont you think it would be better to err on the side of caution rather than not to. The death and hospitalisation rate is creeping up with the number of active infections currently. The higher they go the more strain will be placed on our healthcare service.

You're right theres no answer here but in more cautious approach seems more correct in the balance of probabilities currently. By taking the approach of leaving things open and not preventing infections might help the economy at the cost of lives, the failure of the healthcare service which is already under strain and the eventual damage to the economy anyway due to the effects this has. It really is a case of perhaps the known unknowns are better than the unknown unknowns.

I think the important thing is that we recognize that the current strategy of maximum suppression until vaccination is itself not without risks.

What makes me worried is the extent to which we turn on those with a dissenting view like that HSE consultant who, imo, made very reasonable points but felt the need afterwards to resign.

Zebra3

Love all the virtue signalling.

"If someone in your family dies, blah, blah".

Look at the number of people killed on the roads every year.

Most Irish people don't give a toss about those deaths.

Huge numbers of Irish motorists speed, go through red lights, use their phones while driving, park illegally and endanger children and old people as a result.

But who cares about all those killed and maimed?

Lower speed limits?

Outrage.

Lower alcohol levels for motorists?

Outcry.

But once the word covid is mentioned, the hysteria breaks out.

Most of the same people don't care about the homeless numbers or the state of waiting lists for operations, but now present themselves as patrons of virtue.

Beasty

Thread title updated to give some clue as to the topic

Bubbaclaus

Zebra3 wrote: »

Love all the virtue signalling.

"If someone in your family dies, blah, blah".

Look at the number of people killed on the roads every year.

Most Irish people don't give a toss about those deaths.

Huge numbers of Irish motorists speed, go through red lights, use their phones while driving, park illegally and endanger children and old people as a result.

But who cares about all those killed and maimed?

Lower speed limits?

Outrage.

Lower alcohol levels for motorists?

Outcry.

But once the word covid is mentioned, the hysteria breaks out.

Most of the same people don't care about the homeless numbers or the state of waiting lists for operations, but now present themselves as patrons of virtue.

Never knew road deaths were contagious.

smck321

Bit cynical wrote: »

I think the important thing is that we recognize that the current strategy of maximum suppression until vaccination is itself not without risks.

What makes me worried is the extent to which we turn on those with a dissenting view like that HSE consultant who, imo, made very reasonable points but felt the need afterwards to resign.

The main issue I see is those calling for removing lockdown and going on as normal are very sketchy in the details. My boss is and anytime I try to get him to go into specifics suddenly it's becoming very boring and I'm too detail orientated.

Same thing with that big signature fest in the UK the Barrington agreement. All pomp and ceremony but lacking in detail and actual statistical modeling.

One side is doing the modeling and the other throws up a few graphs and a flight of ideas.

Zebra3

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Never knew road deaths were contagious.

They're not, but they are still deaths caused in a lot of cases by people's contempt for others.

But it's only covid deaths count. Other behaviour that kills innocent people is fine. We only get worried about covid.

MadYaker

Zebra3 wrote: »

They're not, but they are still deaths caused in a lot of cases by people's contempt for others.

But it's only covid deaths count. Other behaviour that kills innocent people is fine. We only get worried about covid.

When was the last time road deaths overwhelmed a health system?

ressem

GT89 wrote: »

0.000391% chance of dying probably even even less if someone is healthy. But we're all vulnerable according to you. Do you honestly think the bubonic plague only had a 0.000391% chance of death out of the entire population or did they need to falsify death statistics to make the bubonic plague look worse than it really is.

Really ignoring the hint about your maths skills.

0.000391% = 0.000391/100 = 0.00000391

1.09 million deaths globally / 0.00000391 = a world population of 278 billion.

4,937,786 people X 0.00000391 = 19.3 people
Rep of ireland population (from google 2020)
----
You probably meant 0.0391% chance of catching and dying from Covid 19 or it's complications.

2) The pandemic is not history yet. In april 70,000 deaths were attributed to it, yesterday 1.087 million.

In Lombardy, northern italy, they probably have close to "herd immunity numbers" in some towns like Bergamo where 60% were testing positive for antibodies.
Lombardy population 10 Million, covid attributed deaths 16,979
16979/10000000 * 100/1 = 0.16%

3)
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02599-5
Covid possibly damaging the brain's blood supply, even though some patients only had mild respiratory symptoms.
Some viruses can take years before the full effects are known.

bb1234567

Zebra3 wrote: »

Love all the virtue signalling.

"If someone in your family dies, blah, blah".

Look at the number of people killed on the roads every year.

Most Irish people don't give a toss about those deaths.

Huge numbers of Irish motorists speed, go through red lights, use their phones while driving, park illegally and endanger children and old people as a result.

But who cares about all those killed and maimed?

Lower speed limits?

Outrage.

Lower alcohol levels for motorists?

Outcry.

But once the word covid is mentioned, the hysteria breaks out.

Most of the same people don't care about the homeless numbers or the state of waiting lists for operations, but now present themselves as patrons of virtue.

Don't agree with the analogy particularly, speeding is massively frowned upon behaviour as it endangers others, as is breaking red lights, drink driving, talking on phone. Most people would be cursed at or honked at by others for doing many of those things, so I don't think the comparison stands up or reinforces the point youre trying to make

Zebra3

MadYaker wrote: »

When was the last time road deaths overwhelmed a health system?

So we don't care about people dying?

Unless they're dying untreated for covid in hospitals?

Zebra3

bb1234567 wrote: »

Don't agree with the analogy particularly, speeding is massively frowned upon behaviour as it endangers others, as is breaking red lights, drink driving, talking on phone. Most people would be cursed at or honked at by others for doing many of those things, so I don't think the comparison stands up or reinforces the point youre trying to make

114,000 cases of penalty points being issued in first 11 months of last year.

Lot of Irish motorists don't care about other people's lives.

Bit cynical

smck321 wrote: »

The main issue I see is those calling for removing lockdown and going on as normal are very sketchy in the details. My boss is and anytime I try to get him to go into specifics suddenly it's becoming very boring and I'm too detail orientated.

Same thing with that big signature fest in the UK the Barrington agreement. All pomp and ceremony but lacking in detail and actual statistical modeling.

One side is doing the modeling and the other throws up a few graphs and a flight of ideas.

I don't think anyone on this thread is advocating a complete lifting of all restrictions. The OP's question was how would you feel if this were to happen; not whether or not you think it should.

Personally I think the correct approach is to keep the levels of the virus such that the health services aren't overwhelmed with additional protection for vulnerable people. This would minimize damage to the economy out of which future health services are funded. It also allows a level of immunity (not necessarily herd immunity) to develop among the non-vulnerable.

There was a lot of scepticism of Sweden in the early parts of the outbreak but now it looks like they are reaping the rewards with daily deaths now among the lowest in the EU and little need to reimpose restrictions.

GT89

[Deleted User] wrote: »

How quickly we forget.

False flag