How would you feel if restrictions were lifted?

smck321

Bit cynical wrote: »

I don't think anyone on this thread is advocating a complete lifting of all restrictions. The OP's question was how would you feel if this were to happen; not whether or not you think it should.

Personally I think the correct approach is to keep the levels of the virus such that the health services aren't overwhelmed with additional protection for vulnerable people. This would minimize damage to the economy out of which future health services are funded. It also allows a level of immunity (not necessarily herd immunity) to develop among the non-vulnerable.

There was a lot of scepticism of Sweden in the early parts of the outbreak but now it looks like they are reaping the rewards with daily deaths now among the lowest in the EU and little need to reimpose restrictions.

Its always going to be a balancing act but I honestly cannot see the majority of the Irish public complying with measures to control the spread of the virus.

In just the last few weeks we've seen hundreds of examples of people and groups rationalising away personal responsibility and blaming others. How Sweden has magically done this I do not know but when you have GAA clubs rationalising dinners with 30 people, high level government ministers caught breaching restrictions and normal people ignoring restrictions on a daily level (at least in my line of work) it would never work. We could never rely on people to act in such a way that we could effectively control the spread of this virus.

bb1234567

Zebra3 wrote: »

114,000 cases of penalty points being issued in first 11 months of last year.

Lot of Irish motorists don't care about other people's lives.

And that's a really bad thing , you think it would be good if that amount of people Also disregarded covid restrictions. I don't get it, lots of people don't care about covid or car crashes, doesn't justify it

scamalert

Zebra3 wrote: »

Love all the virtue signalling.

"If someone in your family dies, blah, blah".

Look at the number of people killed on the roads every year.

Most Irish people don't give a toss about those deaths.

Huge numbers of Irish motorists speed, go through red lights, use their phones while driving, park illegally and endanger children and old people as a result.

But who cares about all those killed and maimed?

Lower speed limits?

Outrage.

Lower alcohol levels for motorists?

Outcry.

But once the word covid is mentioned, the hysteria breaks out.

Most of the same people don't care about the homeless numbers or the state of waiting lists for operations, but now present themselves as patrons of virtue.

well said, reality is people care about themselves and few close to them, they cant give a fck about someone else, there will prob be more dead in africa with famines this year but sure fck em, and as it is theres prob more then few thousand people suffering with cancer in ireland alone, thats worse then any covid ****e as most of those people actually have dates set on their lives. how many years in a row there was cries about hse not being able to cope with people on trolleys and waiting 24hrs to get help, and thats during boom times.
seem this misery feeds few pockets rest is BS made as we go, sure 1mill+ dead is horrible but in years time round the globe think theres 10tens of millions that die unnoticed from preventable illnesses and no one cares.


original poster had correct view we should of let it go trough, gov had ample time to prepare for what was coming, instead benefits handed out and fck all rinse repeat loop now.

twowheelsonly

GT89 wrote: »

Maybe but not by much. No restrictions in Belarus but yet dead bodies are not lining the streets of Minsk so why would it be any different here. Are Irish people more susceptible to covid than Belarussians?

There's a host of reasons, including how people socialise and where they live, as well as how different countries are interpreting their data, in particular in relation to deaths.

Belarus has a population density of 47 people per sq km.
Ours is 72 per sq km.
The Belorussian population spread is also more evenly spread across the country whereas we have a higher concentration running down the East of the country.

Brazil actually only has a population density of 25 per sq km but they have a massive concentration on their eastern coast with thousands of square miles virtually uninhabited further inland and to the west. (4 million cases in the eastern side of the country..)

Graham

GT89 wrote: »

False flag

:rolleyes:

36,289 deaths in Italy from Coronavirus

marilynrr

Zebra3 wrote: »

Love all the virtue signalling.

"If someone in your family dies, blah, blah".

Look at the number of people killed on the roads every year.

Most Irish people don't give a toss about those deaths.

Huge numbers of Irish motorists speed, go through red lights, use their phones while driving, park illegally and endanger children and old people as a result.

But who cares about all those killed and maimed?

Lower speed limits?

Outrage.

Lower alcohol levels for motorists?

Outcry.

But once the word covid is mentioned, the hysteria breaks out.

Most of the same people don't care about the homeless numbers or the state of waiting lists for operations, but now present themselves as patrons of virtue.

No one cared about that kind of thing during flu season when the elderly are vulnerable. No one even thought about it really. Everyone was always out and about with their viruses and so on not caring who they might spread it to!

It will be interesting to see how flu season is handled once the pandemic is over. Will doctors surgeries start social distancing and mask wearing to protect the vulnerable then?

Our pool of vulnerable people might also be a lot higher once restrictions are eased simply due to the fact that life has been restricted and that vulnerable people also took precautions that they would never have been likely to take before...so it might look like we have a particularly bad flu season once the pandemic is over! I can't see the government having any restrictions in place for that!

marilynrr

scamalert wrote: »

theres prob more then few thousand people suffering with cancer in ireland alone, thats worse then any covid ****e as most of those people actually have dates set on their lives.

There was a lady on the radio quite early on in lockdown with terminal cancer, a young mother in her 30s, her cancer was terminal but she was receiving treatment which was prolonging her life and stopping the cancer from progressing.
She got a phone call from a nurse to say her treatment was being stopped due to covid and she said the nurse was crying on the phone to her as it wasn't the first phone call like that that she'd had to make that day!

bb1234567

scamalert wrote: »

well said, reality is people care about themselves and few close to them, they cant give a fck about someone else, there will prob be more dead in africa with famines this year but sure fck em, and as it is theres prob more then few thousand people suffering with cancer in ireland alone, thats worse then any covid ****e as most of those people actually have dates set on their lives. how many years in a row there was cries about hse not being able to cope with people on trolleys and waiting 24hrs to get help, and thats during boom times.
seem this misery feeds few pockets rest is BS made as we go, sure 1mill+ dead is horrible but in years time round the globe think theres 10tens of millions that die unnoticed from preventable illnesses and no one cares.


original poster had correct view we should of let it go trough, gov had ample time to prepare for what was coming, instead benefits handed out and fck all rinse repeat loop now.

True, but it wasn't in the developed world that they were dying. COVID is big news because the west iis probably the most affected region of the world., along with other more developed regions of the world such as parts of South America and Middle Easr which also have large elderly populations. If this was just another epidemic circulating in Africa and Asia but still killing same number of people it would be yesterday's news like ebola

marilynrr

bb1234567 wrote: »

True, but it wasn't in the developed world that they were dying. COVID is big news because the west is deeply, even the most affected region of the world. If this was just another epidemic circulating in Africa and Asia but still killing same number of people it would be yesterday's news like ebola

It's big news also because of the way it was handled.
The world could have went the other way and not locked down and it would still be in the news a lot and it would have been scary but we would have thought about it very differently.

The thought process probably would have went like "it's absolutely awful but what can we do? we can't shut down the whole of society" and everyone would have agreed and carried on as much as possible!

Antares35

Zebra3 wrote: »

Love all the virtue signalling.

"If someone in your family dies, blah, blah".

Look at the number of people killed on the roads every year.

Most Irish people don't give a toss about those deaths.

Huge numbers of Irish motorists speed, go through red lights, use their phones while driving, park illegally and endanger children and old people as a result.

But who cares about all those killed and maimed?

Lower speed limits?

Outrage.

Lower alcohol levels for motorists?

Outcry.

But once the word covid is mentioned, the hysteria breaks out.

Most of the same people don't care about the homeless numbers or the state of waiting lists for operations, but now present themselves as patrons of virtue.

Gawd can we get a ban on the use of the term "virtue signalling"... It's more rampant than covid these days.

These things you've listed are not mutually exclusive and are therefore irrelevant to the discussion really. Also how do you figure people who care about restriction compliance don't care about other issues?

Rubberchikken

I honestly wouldn't mind.
I work in a medical environment and have followed every restriction to the letter but I'm practical.
People die. Old people die. It's a fact. No one lives forever. We can't live in fear forever which is happwning., Make no mistake about it.

The only thing that annoys me is the fact that people still support china. That the usa, probably the strongest country in the world, hasn't done something to make china face up to the fact that they've f#$ked up a lot of lives.

bb1234567

Rubberchikken wrote: »

I honestly wouldn't mind.
I work in a medical environment and have followed every restriction to the letter but I'm practical.
People die. Old people die. It's a fact. No one lives forever. We can't live in fear forever which is happwning., Make no mistake about it.

The only thing that annoys me is the fact that people still support china. That the usa, probably the strongest country in the world, hasn't done something to make china face up to the fact that they've f#$ked up a lot of lives.

Who supports China? What is the altnerative,some severe boycott of the largest country on earth which most countries of the wolrd have strong economic ties with? Should over a billion people endure some kind of hardship because a small number of people who make up their ruling government ****ed up?

I don't have faith many other countries woud have handled the initial outbreak much better. Imagine it had started in Brazil or Mexico, I think we would be even worse off at this point if that was the case

Antares35

bb1234567 wrote: »

Who supports China? What is the altnerative,some severe boycott of the largest country on earth which most countries of the wolrd have strong economic ties with? Should over a billion people endure some kind of hardship because a small number of people who make up their ruling government ****ed up?

I don't have faith many other countries woud have handled the initial outbreak much better. Imagine it had started in Brazil or Mexico, I think we would be even worse off at this point if that was the case

At least Brazil or Mexico might have told the rest of the world about it sooner.

marilynrr

Antares35 wrote: »

At least Brazil or Mexico might have told the rest of the world about it sooner.

What do you think we would have done differently? Our government didn't act even when they did know anyway!

bb1234567

Antares35 wrote: »

At least Brazil or Mexico might have told the rest of the world about it sooner.

What would telling have done? Thousands of people in China had died by the time first infections in Europe were discovered and it wasn't even big news until cases started cropping up outside China,there was already studies being published on how infectious it was and China openly displayed it's means of covid prevention to the world through lockdown, transport ban and yet flights arriving from China were not halted by most countries until it was too late. No country wanted to act until there was a need to do so and as we known with covid once there's a need to stop spread you already have a large mess on your hands. Can almost guarantee it would have gone the exact same way if it had started in any developing country but everyone loves a scapegoat

topmanamillion

Probably a controversial view but I think we should be lifting restrictions not imposing more.

Everyone's so caught up with Covid there's no one watching the bigger picture.

What will the implications on people's mental health be? We probably won't see a true reflection on that for another 6-12 months. But I would imagine you'll be looking at a spike in suicides and depression due to isolation and financial worries.

I'd certainly advocate the swedes approach.
We're supposed to be "living" with Covid by now.
The big concern back in March was that ICUs would be over ran. Even with an average of 800 cases a day we're no where near that happening.
We know far more about covid now than we did 6 or 7 months ago and we have a far bigger capacity for testing.

I say protect the vulnerable which would mean regular covid tests for staff and visitors to nursing homes, pay the full wages of vulnerable adults to work/stay at home i.e the ones with underlying conditions and have students with underlying conditions stay at home with money pumped into distance learning.

All that would be as effective as the current approach without crippling small business and be far more cost effective to boot.

We have the testing capacity now to keep a close eye on the viruses progress and the knowledge to protect the vulnerable. Instead we're destroying the quality of life of the very young and the elderly and those with physical and mental health issues.

Antares35

bb1234567 wrote: »

What would telling have done? Thousands of people in China had died by the time first infections in Europe were discovered and it wasn't even big news until cases started cropping up outside China,there was already studies being published on how infectious it was and China openly displayed it's means of covid prevention to the world through lockdown, transport ban and yet flights arriving from China were not halted by most countries until it was too late. No country wanted to act until there was a need to do so and as we known with covid once there's a need to stop spread you already have a large mess on your hands. Can almost guarantee it would have gone the exact same way if it had started in any developing country but everyone loves a scapegoat

Yeah, saints they are sure Selling defective PPE equipment too. Set a house on fire then sell buckets of water.

Out of interest, why would the outcome have been worse if it was Brazil or Mexico??

Jim Gazebo

GT89 wrote: »

How would you honestly feel if the government turned around tommorrow and said the pubs can reopen to full capacity, all businneses can reopen that were closed, no more restrictions on gatherings, no more mandatory masks, people working from home should go back to work, full capacity on public transport, matches can go ahead with 80k fans, no more social distancing meaning life can return to exactly how it was before last March.

And this assumes that there is not a vaccine or effective treatment the virus would essientially be let loose. How would you feel and be 100% honest. Personally I would be delighted but know our spineless coward politicians would never have the balls to pull such a move.

Do this and advise those at risk to cocoon, provide support payments for this. It's about personal responsibility now. I'm quite happy to take the risk. We are wasting years of life now.

Jim Gazebo

Jim Gazebo wrote: »

Do this and advise those at risk to cocoon, provide support payments for this. It's about personal responsibility now. I'm quite happy to take the risk. We are wasting years of life now.

Multiply the 4 million odd people in ireland by 6 months to see time lost

Contact tracing is the best hope in my opinion

Protect people by restricted the contacts of positive individuals

Jim Gazebo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Multiply the 4 million odd people in ireland by 6 months to see time lost

Contact tracing is the best hope in my opinion

Protect people by restricted the contacts of positive individuals

It looks like we are on the brink of disaster in Ireland now anyway. And that will fall on MM head for not having the bollocks to either lockdown or lift restrictions, he's gone to halfway house and if it doesn't work he's ****ed.

Improving the health system, contact tracing, testing and results is the only way to fight this properly and live a somewhat normal life at the same time I think. Instead we pour money into everything else imaginable.

Jim Gazebo

Jim Gazebo wrote: »

It looks like we are on the brink of disaster in Ireland now anyway. And that will fall on MM head for not having the bollocks to either lockdown or lift restrictions, he's gone to halfway house and if it doesn't work he's ****ed.

Improving the health system, contact tracing, testing and results is the only way to fight this properly and live a somewhat normal life at the same time I think. Instead we pour money into everything else imaginable.

Yes, 100% testing and contact tracing. They want to save money but sometimes you have to spend money to save money.

The israelis mandate tracking, not sure if we want to go down that road

Wanderer78

GT89 wrote:

And this assumes that there is not a vaccine or effective treatment the virus would essientially be let loose. How would you feel and be 100% honest. Personally I would be delighted but know our spineless coward politicians would never have the balls to pull such a move.

What are you on about? Why would our politicians wanna do such an idiotic thing?

GT89

Graham wrote: »

:rolleyes:

36,289 deaths in Italy from Coronavirus

The military trucks supposedly carrying coffins was a likely a false flag. Those trucks were likely empty 43,155 deaths in the UK supposedly but no army truck trucks carrying coffins over there at any point.

Wonder did Italy count all the people who died of covid or all the people who died with covid alongside underlying conditions. 99% of deaths there had an underlying condition.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-18/99-of-those-who-died-from-virus-had-other-illness-italy-says

Wanderer78

GT89 wrote: »

The military trucks supposedly carrying coffins was a likely a false flag. Those trucks were likely empty 43,155 deaths in the UK supposedly but no army truck trucks carrying coffins over there at any point.

Wonder did Italy count all the people who died of covid or all the people who died with covid alongside underlying conditions. 99% of deaths there had an underlying condition.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-18/99-of-those-who-died-from-virus-had-other-illness-italy-says

what?

GT89

Wanderer78 wrote: »

what?

Show me evidence those trucks were stuffed with coffins? Italy is well known to exggerate a crisis it was likely a fear and intimidation tatic to scare people. Explain to me where were the trucks of coffins in the UK where deaths were supposedly higher again.

Wanderer78

GT89 wrote: »

Show me evidence those trucks were stuffed with coffins? Italy is well known to exggerate a crisis it was likely a fear and intimidation tatic to scare people. E plain to me where were the trucks of coffins in the UK where deaths were supposedly higher again.

again, what?

CalamariFritti

It wasn't a false flag as in it was fake news but it was a highly emotional picture. It was like the picture of the dead refugee kid on the beach. Typical modern media style. Shock and awe for clicks. Both terrible pictures and very sad things to happen but it lead to a knee jerk reaction blurring the bigger picture ever since.

Graham

CalamariFritti wrote: »

It wasn't a false flag as in it was fake news but it was a highly emotional picture. It was like the picture of the dead refugee kid on the beach. Typical modern media style. Shock and awe for clicks. Both terrible pictures and very sad things to happen but it lead to a knee jerk reaction blurring the bigger picture ever since.

And if it wasn't published the tinfoil hatters would be screaming government cover up.

I'm not entirely sure it is possible to report the removal of hundreds of dead bodies without feeling any emotion.

Graham

GT89 wrote: »

Show me evidence those trucks were stuffed with coffins? Italy is well known to exggerate a crisis it was likely a fear and intimidation tatic to scare people. E plain to me where were the trucks of coffins in the UK where deaths were supposedly higher again.

Over thirty six thousand people died in Italy.

Say that out loud to yourself.

Thirty six thousand.

paw patrol

I'm a bit late to this thread.
OP - I'm fully with you on this. The notion of lockdown or restrictions is immoral and stupid.

The people who are vulnerable should take steps (and receive support from the state) to protect themselves. The rest of us should be able to make risk assessment and judgement in our activities.

Using the pub as an example but it applies to all social settings:
If you are vulnerable you shouldn't be in a the pub EVER tbh...or you are taking a risk , during covid or flu season or any time tbh. If you are caring for a vulnerable person you should not be down the pub either.
People will talk about vulnerable people catching covid but where will that happen? Where will they be in close contact to people who are taking risk assessments?

There is no evidence that it is transmitted in shops or supermarkets - despite supermarkets being open and doing a roaring trade - Dunnes Stores best year ever say the financials - there isn't any major outbreak among staff. You can order online anyway.
And the HSE say that to be a close contact you must be 15mins with a person , this doesn't happen in a shop setting.


If you are worried you can follow the current restrictions as guidelines - they'll limit your exposure. Work from home too.
Something tells me most of the posters agree and support the current rules so what is the problem , you are all protecting yourselves , that is good to see.

I don't follow the restrictions , my life is too important to me to waste my time doing stuff I don't believe in.
Anybody in my life who would be a close contact knows how I behave and acts accordingly . I have some close friends/family I've not seen because our life choices are not compatible and both sides fully accept this.

But for some reason instead of allowing people behave in accordance with their own risk assessment and life choices the state decides to shut the whole fcuking thing down.
They are absolute $h1tehawks ,as are some of the posters on this thread with a special mention to:

kippy wrote: »

I'd also try get you on a watch list of some description.

what a weird comment only that only an utter gimp would say. It's people like you ruin society with your slavish deference the to government and its' commands . No doubt you will be curtain twitching on Halloween taking notes of the people who aren't living in fear. pathetic.