2020 NFL season - Week 5 thread

Foxtrol

Blut2 wrote: »

Even at Dalton's absolute best hes not close to Dak's level. His best case scenario is probably a Nick Foles style redemption story - he does exceptionally well this year and gets himself a big money, multi-year contract with a team that needs a QB, and will be happy with a mid-tier one. Hes never going to be a top 5 QB like Dak.

Dalton's also about to turn 33 which is going to limit him massively. He wasn't good enough at his peak to be hanging on much past 36, he doesn't have as much "cushion" for performance dropoff as the guys like Rodgers or Brees.

I've felt Dalton was underrated for most of his career but I can see the same arc happening as Foles and a team being similarly disappointed when they pay him.

Part of me can see Dalton staying with the Cowboys if he does a passable job and Dak moving on, especially if Dak can't prove his fitness before FA. I think the Dak relationship is destroyed at this point and Jerry will now try to low ball him and not want to pay the franchise tag number.

BonnieSituation

Does a Manning and joins us. That'll work for me.

BonnieSituation

Some start for TEN on only the second ever Tuesday night game since 1946.

Mad stat.

eagle eye

Blut2 wrote:

Even at Dalton's absolute best hes not close to Dak's level. His best case scenario is probably a Nick Foles style redemption story - he does exceptionally well this year and gets himself a big money, multi-year contract with a team that needs a QB, and will be happy with a mid-tier one. Hes never going to be a top 5 QB like Dak.

Dak isn't that good.
Dalton is grossly underrated by you.

Blut2 wrote:

Dalton's also about to turn 33 which is going to limit him massively. He wasn't good enough at his peak to be hanging on much past 36, he doesn't have as much "cushion" for performance dropoff as the guys like Rodgers or Brees.

When was his peak, the last three years in Cincy when he had a porous offensive line?

BonnieSituation

I hate that sky don't show US studio punditry.

eagle eye

A thing that's told to many QBs is the count, one, one thousand, two one thousand, three, one thousand get rid of the ball. That's how long you get.

I've watched plenty of Andy Dalton the last three years including live at Wembley last year. You got one, one thousand, two and the ball is either gone or he's on his backside sacked. That's been a very common thing for him for the last three years.
It'll take him a couple of games to get up to speed with his new team but once he does you'll see how good he is.

That's of course if he doesn't have scars from the last three years that won't heal. I think he'll be fine though.

eagle eye

Bills in real trouble here, defense decimated by injury, Allen off his game. Titans are going to win this one comfortably.

BonnieSituation

You've got the courage of your convictions, I'll give you that.

BonnieSituation

That second INT was criminal. The roughing penalty was execution worthy.

Then Allen goes and throws a wonderful throw to Yeldon. Wow.

BonnieSituation

And that's that.

Titans have been supremely impressive.

Spooch

Benefits of essentially two weeks off? Titans looked powerful

eagle eye

Titans are 4-0 now.

TheDoctor

Good lord I think Henry just retired Norman with that stiff arm.

paulie21

paulie21 wrote: »

42-21

Buccaneers @ Bears
Cardinals @ Jets
Panthers @ Falcons
Bengals @ Ravens
Jaguars @ Texans
Raiders @ Chiefs
Eagles @ Steelers
Rams @ Washington
Bills @ Titans
Dolphins @ 49ers
Giants @ Cowboys
Broncos @ Patriots[/B]
Colts @ Browns
Vikings @ Seahawks
Chargers @ Saints

10-4 brings me to 52-25

Blut2

eagle eye wrote: »

Dak isn't that good.
Dalton is grossly underrated by you.

When was his peak, the last three years in Cincy when he had a porous offensive line?

I don't think Dalton is a bad player to be clear. But hes never been a top tier QB, and never will be. Dak this year on the other hand was behind Mahomes/Wilson/Rodgers, but was easily up there with Jackson/Allen competing to round out the top 5. Three out of his 4 games this year he was at over 450 yards like.

All of the stats show QBs peak at age 28/29 - the best combination of years of experience in the league but a body still not suffering too badly from age yet. The peak can be a few years long plateau for the better players (26-31 is generally the range I've seen), but age 33 is most definitely on the wrong side of things. Its only downhill from there, quite rapidly once over 35.

Itssoeasy

Itssoeasy wrote: »

40-23 coming in after four weeks.

Buccaneers @ Bears
Cardinals @ Jets
Panthers @ Falcons
Bengals @ Ravens
Jaguars @ Texans
Raiders @ Chiefs
Eagles @ Steelers
Rams @ Washington
Bills @ Titans
Dolphins @ 49ers
Giants @ Cowboys
Broncos @ Patriots
Colts @ Browns
Vikings @ Seahawks
Chargers @ Saints

10-4 so 50-27 for the season.
I watched last nights game until it was 7-7 and then went to bed. I certainly didn’t expect the score I saw this morning though. After two weeks of practically no practice that’s a good showing by the Titans.

Lionbacker

Lionbacker wrote: »

Currently sitting at 39-24

Buccaneers @ Bears
Cardinals @ Jets
Panthers @ Falcons
Bengals @ Ravens
Jaguars@ Texans
Raiders @ Chiefs
Eagles @ Steelers
Rams @ Washington
Bills @ Titans
Dolphins @ 49ers
Giants @ Cowboys
Broncos @ Patriots
Colts @ Browns
Vikings @ Seahawks
Chargers @ Saints

10-4 as well, which brings me to 49-28 so far.

BonnieSituation

BonnieSituation wrote: »

44-19 (0.698) coming in

Buccaneers @ Bears x
Cardinals @ Jets o
Panthers @ Falcons o
Bengals @ Ravens o
Jaguars @ Texans o
Raiders @ Chiefs x
Eagles @ Steelers o
Rams @ Football Team o
Bills @ Titans x
Dolphins @ 49ers x
Giants @ Cowboys o
Broncos @ Patriots ---
Colts @ Browns x
Vikings @ Seahawks o
Chargers @ Saints o


I see me coming back to this before Thursday

That week fizzled for me.

9-5 (0.643) brings me to 53-24 (0.688) for the season

eagle eye

Blut2 wrote:

I don't think Dalton is a bad player to be clear. But hes never been a top tier QB, and never will be. Dak this year on the other hand was behind Mahomes/Wilson/Rodgers, but was easily up there with Jackson/Allen competing to round out the top 5. Three out of his 4 games this year he was at over 450 yards like.

He wasn't near the top five last year unless you are going on passing yards where he finished second to Jameis Winston. Are you ranking Jameis highly?

I'd put him in a bracket that includes Derek Carr and Matthew Stafford.

He wasn't near the top five.

I'll take Wilson, Mahomes, Rodgers, Jackson, Brees, Allen, Brady and Tannehill ahead of him without question.

Blut2 wrote:

All of the stats show QBs peak at age 28/29 - the best combination of years of experience in the league but a body still not suffering too badly from age yet. The peak can be a few years long plateau for the better players (26-31 is generally the range I've seen), but age 33 is most definitely on the wrong side of things. Its only downhill from there, quite rapidly once over 35.

Brady, Brees, Manning, Rodgers, Favre, Marino, Elway, Rivers, Roethlisberger and Warner all.played top level well past the age of 33 and that's just off the top of my head.

Hoki

Hoki wrote: »

42-21

Buccaneers @ Bears
Cardinals @ Jets
Panthers @ Falcons
Bengals @ Ravens
Jaguars @ Texans
Raiders @ Chiefs
Eagles @ Steelers
Rams @ Washington
Bills @ Titans
Dolphins @ 49ers
Giants @ Cowboys
Broncos @ Patriots
Colts @ Browns
Vikings @ Seahawks
Chargers @ Saints

10-4 for the week meaning 52-25 on the season.

Blut2

eagle eye wrote: »

He wasn't near the top five last year unless you are going on passing yards where he finished second to Jameis Winston. Are you ranking Jameis highly?

I'd put him in a bracket that includes Derek Carr and Matthew Stafford.

He wasn't near the top five.

I'll take Wilson, Mahomes, Rodgers, Jackson, Brees, Allen, Brady and Tannehill ahead of him without question.

Brady, Brees, Manning, Rodgers, Favre, Marino, Elway, Rivers, Roethlisberger and Warner all.played top level well past the age of 33 and that's just off the top of my head.

If you're seriously arguing this season that you'd take Brady, Brees or Tannehill ahead of how Dak was performing then I don't know what to say to you, other than "watch more football".

They all played top level after 33, but all of them were better at age 31 than age 36. And they're obviously extreme outliers - you've listed probably the top 10QBs in the last three decades in the NFL, out of hundreds of QBs. All of them were performing at a far higher level than Dalton is when they were 32.

The data on QB peak performance age doesn't lie, its completely accepted:

"with players’ peak ages ranging from 24 for running backs to 28 for most offensive linemen and quarterbacks. " -- https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-nfl-is-no-league-for-old-men/

"a quarterback’s peak age is 25 for all but one of the stats, with 26 to 28 not far behind. There seems to be a steep, upward trend at the beginning of a quarterback’s career, and a gentler fall from their peak." -- https://bleacherreport.com/articles/215283-nfl-aging-curves-by-position-rookie-qbs-third-year-wrs-and-age-30-rbs

"The graph shows that a typical QB should peak at age 29" - https://www.pro-football-reference.com/articles/des.htm

etc. Its not my idle speculation.

boccy23

boccy23 wrote: »

41-22 so far.

Buccaneers @ Bears L
Cardinals @ Jets W
Panthers @ Falcons W
Bengals @ Ravens W
Jaguars@ Texans W
Raiders @ Chiefs L
Eagles @ Steelers W
Rams @ Washington W
Bills @ Titans L
Dolphins @ 49ers L
Giants @ Cowboys W
Broncos @ Patriots
Colts @ Browns W
Vikings @ Seahawks W
Chargers @ Saints W

Most of this weeks games seem obvious. Watch me go 4-11!

10-4 this week. Makes it 51-26 so far.

Foxtrol

Blut2 wrote: »

If you're seriously arguing this season that you'd take Brady, Brees or Tannehill ahead of how Dak was performing then I don't know what to say to you, other than "watch more football".

They all played top level after 33, but all of them were better at age 31 than age 36. And they're obviously extreme outliers - you've listed probably the top 10QBs in the last three decades in the NFL, out of hundreds of QBs. All of them were performing at a far higher level than Dalton is when they were 32.

The data on QB peak performance age doesn't lie, its completely accepted:

"with players’ peak ages ranging from 24 for running backs to 28 for most offensive linemen and quarterbacks. " -- https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-nfl-is-no-league-for-old-men/

"a quarterback’s peak age is 25 for all but one of the stats, with 26 to 28 not far behind. There seems to be a steep, upward trend at the beginning of a quarterback’s career, and a gentler fall from their peak." -- https://bleacherreport.com/articles/215283-nfl-aging-curves-by-position-rookie-qbs-third-year-wrs-and-age-30-rbs

"The graph shows that a typical QB should peak at age 29" - https://www.pro-football-reference.com/articles/des.htm

etc. Its not my idle speculation.

That poster has some weird issue with Dak, so I wouldn't take the comments seriously.

Last offseason they claimed that if Mike White was given a run of games he could show that he was the better QB on the Cowboys roster. That same Mike White was cut later that offseason and the Cowboys didn't even try to bring him onto their practice squad. He is currently on the Jets practice squad.

eagle eye

Blut2 wrote:

If you're seriously arguing this season that you'd take Brady, Brees or Tannehill ahead of how Dak was performing then I don't know what to say to you, other than "watch more football".

I've probably watched more football in the last week than you, in the last month, in the last year, in the last decade and in the last 35 years.

Blut2 wrote:

etc. Its not my idle speculation.

When was Drew Brees best statistical season? 2018
Tom Brady's second best? 2016
Peyton's second best was 2013.
I've only searched three.

Blut2

:rolleyes: right, you know better than all of the decades of stats in pro-football so. You should write into fivethirtyeight, bleacher report and every other statistical analysis site out there and correct them on the error of their ways.

Foxtrol's take on you seems to be correct.

Lionbacker

BonnieSituation wrote: »

The state of the short highlights sometimes.

They showed the drive then they completely ignore the kick/doink and straight into the OT. Nonsense.

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

Didn't even show how the Chargers were stopped in overtime, 1st & 10 after the field goal then "video over"

Every 2nd comment is about how much of a sh*t show the highlights have been this year.
I've watch some games that decided touchdowns are not wort showing? Like wtf?

Just on this, NFL took down that video & re-uploaded it with the missing highlights now included.
Fair play to them, that they took the comments on board & re-edited it, but it should'nt have happened in the first place.

eagle eye

Blut2 wrote:

right, you know better than all of the decades of stats in pro-football so. You should write into fivethirtyeight, bleacher report and every other statistical analysis site out there and correct them on the error of their ways.

I just showed you three recent examples of great QBs having some of their very best seasons well past the age of 29 or even 33.
The most important stat is wins and losses. I know that's not all on the QB but 39-27 isn't spectacular by any stretch.
Andy Dalton who you think is crap is 70-61-2.

Realt Dearg Sec

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

47-16 coming in

Buccaneers @ Bears
Cardinals @ Jets
Panthers @ Falcons
Bengals @ Ravens
Jaguars @ Texans
Raiders @ Chiefs
Eagles @ Steelers
Rams @ Washington
Bills @ Titans
Dolphins @ 49ers
Giants @ Cowboys
Broncos @ Patriots
Colts @ Browns
Vikings @ Seahawks
Chargers @ Saints

9-5
56-21 overall

Whitters22

Whitters22 wrote: »

42-21 for the season.

Buccaneers @ Bears
Cardinals @ Jets
Panthers @ Falcons
Bengals @ Ravens
Jaguars @ Texans
Raiders @ Chiefs
Eagles @ Steelers
Rams @ Washington
Bills @ Titans
Dolphins @ 49ers
Giants @ Cowboys
Broncos @ Patriots
Colts @ Browns
Vikings @ Seahawks
Chargers @ Saints

Feel like the Chiefs are yet to hit top gear even though they are 100% after a tough opening schedule on paper. They can essentially clinch the division this Sunday with a win.

8-6 disaster of a week. Thought I had the Titans but so be it.

BonnieSituation

Foxtrol wrote: »

That poster has some weird issue with Dak, so I wouldn't take the comments seriously.

Last offseason they claimed that if Mike White was given a run of games he could show that he was the better QB on the Cowboys roster. That same Mike White was cut later that offseason and the Cowboys didn't even try to bring him onto their practice squad. He is currently on the Jets practice squad.

Jarrett Stidham could do a job for the Cowboys.