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Rachel Allen's son arrested again...

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    #152
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    That is garbage. Everyone is entitled to free legal aid, unless you don't fit the criteria. In Joshua's case he could possibly elect to receive legal aid, I don't know what age he was when he was busted. But if he was 18 and not living at home and had no income... Eitherways there is nothing wrong with paying for your own legal cover. None of the real criminals pay for it either.

    There is no "pay it away " in Ireland. You can opt to pay to be incarcerated in an open prison, with the approval of your sentencing judge. If he was your kid you would pay it too if you could afford it.

    Such facilities are neither the Allens' or Joshua fault. These are provisions offered by the laws of the country. Only nutters end up in Mountjoy or other high security prisons and not for all that long either.

    Are you not referring to Siobhán Lankford?

    Their wealth really seems to bug you, am I right in assuming this?

    I never said he wasnt entitled to either a defence or free legal aid.
    He was 19 when the Guards arrested him but they were watching to bust him for a long time. He didnt pay for his own legal aid, his parents did.
    If my own "kid" was in prison I would tell him he was old enough to commit the crime and he is old enough to do the time.... and he wouldnt be a kid. He would be a man and not fit to be called mine.

    You are not grasping to what I am referring to when I say "pay it away". I mean they dont accept responsibility for their actions and give money into the poor box/charity/BS psychologist reports. The Judge said last time he had no interest in these reports when he set out conditions for that last trial.

    I was refering to Samantha Lankford, that is correct.

    once again its not the Wealth its the refusal to accept responsiblity for criminal actions.


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    #153
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    The Muppet wrote: »
    Nobody's suggesting sweeping anything under the carpet. Actions have consequences, for a person with a parent who happens to be a celebrity there are added consequences , I'm not sure that's fair on the child or the parents.

    The first incident was swept under the carpet. That was paid away. IF you have questions get a far back copy of investigative journalism done years ago in the Sunday independent. Money was paid and the problem went away.

    €40,000 was paid at a trial to get a suspended sentence. at another trial.

    BS psychology reports, publicity shots and charity donations were used to sway the judge but he saw through them.

    Yes you can try and "pay it away". The Allens tried to make it happen and have been successful.


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    #154
    The Muppet
    Registered Users Posts: 14,003 ✭✭✭✭The Muppet


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    once again its not the Wealth its the refusal to accept responsiblity for criminal actions.

    Is it your belief that parents should accept responsibility for the actions of their 20 year old children?


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    #155
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    The Muppet wrote: »
    Is it your belief that parents should accept responsibility for the actions of their 20 year old children?

    No, its my belief that parents should let 20 year old men accept responsibility for their own actions.

    BIG DIFFERENCE. 20 year olds are not children in the eyes of the law.


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    #156
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    The first incident was swept under the carpet. That was paid away. IF you have questions get a far back copy of investigative journalism done years ago in the Sunday independent. Money was paid and the problem went away.

    €40,000 was paid at a trial to get a suspended sentence. at another trial.

    BS psychology reports, publicity shots and charity donations were used to sway the judge but he saw through them.

    Yes you can try and "pay it away". The Allens tried to make it happen and have been successful.

    Ehhhhh , link please?

    40K to who exactly?


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    #157
    The Muppet
    Registered Users Posts: 14,003 ✭✭✭✭The Muppet


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    No, its my belief that parents should let 20 year old men accept responsibility for their own actions.

    BIG DIFFERENCE. 20 year olds are not children in the eyes of the law.

    Did he not plead guilty at his trial. Was that not him accepting responsibility for his actions?


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    #158
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    Ehhhhh , link please?

    40K to who exactly?

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/repentant-allen-pays-price-for-his-crime-1.345627#:~:text=A%20businessman%2C%20Tim%20Allen%2C%20was,to%20possession%20of%20child%20pornography.

    To a charity to get a reduced sentence. Same family same methods.


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    #159
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    The Muppet wrote: »
    Did he not plead guilty at his trial. Was that not him accepting responsibility for his actions?

    That is just verbal, The judge was not impressed by his progress reports from Ard Cluain. Also he was caught rotten with the import and had no option but to plead guilty.


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    #160
    Gods Gift
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,713 ✭✭✭Gods Gift


    If he’d had hit a tree they could have called it Joshua’s Tree.


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    #161
    vicwatson
    Registered Users Posts: 28,403 ✭✭✭✭vicwatson


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/repentant-allen-pays-price-for-his-crime-1.345627#:~:text=A%20businessman%2C%20Tim%20Allen%2C%20was,to%20possession%20of%20child%20pornography.

    To a charity to get a reduced sentence. Same family same methods.

    An Indian charity too ffs


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    #162
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/repentant-allen-pays-price-for-his-crime-1.345627#:~:text=A%20businessman%2C%20Tim%20Allen%2C%20was,to%20possession%20of%20child%20pornography.

    To a charity to get a reduced sentence. Same family same methods.


    His uncle's pedophilia has nothing to do with Joshua's issues? He was 3 years old and possibly not even born when his uncle was committing those crimes.

    Why do you think it is fair to chastise Joshua over his Grandfather's crimes? Do you think that is an appropriate accusation?


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    #163
    NSAman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,388 ✭✭✭NSAman


    Still shocked that a Range Rover Evoke costs 70k....


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    #164
    Gods Gift
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,713 ✭✭✭Gods Gift


    NSAman wrote: »
    Still shocked that a Range Rover Evoke costs 70k....

    She’s an ambassador for Range Rover. So may not even own it.


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    #165
    The Muppet
    Registered Users Posts: 14,003 ✭✭✭✭The Muppet


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    That is just verbal, The judge was not impressed by his progress reports from Ard Cluain. Also he was caught rotten with the import and had no option but to plead guilty.

    That makes no sense. Every defendant has the option of how they plead, and your comments above about a court imposed fine in a a different case involving a different defendant to the person being discussed here is very strange.

    Do you know this family in real life ?


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    #166
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    vicwatson wrote: »
    An Indian charity too ffs

    Did you read the rest of the article? The judge refused to admit some pictures into evidence. the article needs a lot of dissection and fleshing out so to speak.

    The good news is :

    Dr Humphreys described the defendant as an indirect threat to children. He was "culpable of contributing to an exploitable industry but not a threat to children that come into his company".

    Calling for a non-custodial sentence, defence counsel said he attached "huge significance" to the fact that the defendant had sought assistance prior to the raid.

    He added that the "sad saga" had attracted the "most lurid" sort of publicity.

    "The dogs on the printing presses have been roaring in a highly speculative manner on the demon that supposedly my client is," Mr Allen said.

    His client was not a demon, nor a monster, but a kind and caring person and loving husband and father.


    A lot of people made a lot of money on reports, reports for judges, charities and what not. The important this is all of this has now been white washed.


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    #167
    twowheelsonly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,268 ✭✭✭twowheelsonly


    Godeatsboogers wrote: »
    Didnt he get caught with copious amounts of weed and get locked up this year for 15 months? Quarter of 15 is 3.75 months, so 11 months really, how much tr did he get?

    Backdated to November so he would have been due out in October. Presuming he's out a month or so he probably got about 3 months TR.
    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    Isnt it an automatic violation of his parole?

    No. Generally speaking unless it's a violent offence or breach of barring /protection order then it has to be proven first.
    It might sound ridiculous but it stops fellas being banged back up for frivolous reasons just on the word of a Garda (who may for his own reasons have a hard-on for some fella..)
    Nexytus wrote: »
    It's interesting that the Judge at his last trial believed a particular sentence was appropriate. And they decide according to a comprehensive sentencing guidelines. This would factor in a lot of things and include keeping the public safe and teaching the convicted lad a lesson - making him a better person.

    And then the Irish Prison Service without any referral back to the Judge can decide off its own bat - its completely unqualified bat - to apply a completely different sentence. 'Temporary Release' or 'Early Release'. And then when it goes wrong - as happens every day of the week - nobody in the Prisons is asked to account for it.

    And before anyone mentions prison spaces has the governor of the prison that Joshua was held in written an urgent letter to the government stating that his prison is too small and he is being forced to let convicts out the door inappropriately and dangerously? I haven't heard of any such communication being discussed by government or in the Dáil.

    If someone is sentenced to fifteen months then they should serve that to the day. Time should be added on for bad behaviour. No discounts.

    The Government, and Judges, are well aware of the pressure on prison spaces. Prisons, or prison Governors, don't 'just decide' to give someone TR either. Nowadays Probation & Welfare, Psycologists, Doctors, Teachers and senior prison management are all involved in the decision making process.
    On your last point, remission, rightly or wrongly, is automatic in this country. Poor behaviour loses you some of this remission. If someone loses every day of remission then he still has to be released on his release date. The Prison Service / Governor can't just be Judge and Jury and decide to add on to it.
    IAMAMORON wrote: »

    There is no "pay it away " in Ireland. You can opt to pay to be incarcerated in an open prison, with the approval of your sentencing judge. If he was your kid you would pay it too if you could afford it.

    You can ???? Since when ??? I'm over 20 years working in Prisons and I've never heard of this !!


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    #168
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    His uncle's pedophilia has nothing to do with Joshua's issues? He was 3 years old and possibly not even born when his uncle was committing those crimes.

    Why do you think it is fair to chastise Joshua over his Grandfather's crimes? Do you think that is an appropriate accusation?

    IT was his grandfather, the family are employing the same tactics since the early 1990's. I am not chastising Joshua over his grandfathers peccadilloes. I am criticizing the whole family of their approach to the law and refusing to take responsibility for their actions. Different decade, different people same strategies.


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    #169
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    twowheelsonly wrote: »
    You can ???? Since when ??? I'm over 20 years working in Prisons and I've never heard of this !!

    Thought that sounded too good to be true, open prison are only for extremely low risk and aged prisoners. Like the ones that are so old they would have a heart attack bolting for the gate.


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    #170
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    twowheelsonly wrote: »
    You can ???? Since when ??? I'm over 20 years working in Prisons and I've never heard of this !!

    Where do tax defaulters and non violent inmates go?

    ie Loughan House or Shelton House.


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    #171
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    Where do tax defaulters and non violent inmates go?

    ie Loughan House or Shelton House.

    They dont pay to go there that is their classification.


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    #172
    Etc
    Registered Users Posts: 537 ✭✭✭Etc


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    Where do tax defaulters and non violent inmates go?

    ie Loughan House or Shelton House.

    How much does it cost ?


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    #173
    E mac
    Registered Users Posts: 403 ✭✭E mac


    Aside from Tim Allens case (and Joshua's) what other legal problems have the Allens had?


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    #174
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    They dont pay to go there that is their classification.

    You tell me, you seem to know all about how much the Allen's are forking out these days?

    How come the Dublin hill gang aren't getting sent there?

    Well?


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    #175
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    Etc wrote: »
    How much does it cost ?

    I don't know, I was never offered a place.


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    #176
    twowheelsonly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,268 ✭✭✭twowheelsonly


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    Where do tax defaulters and non violent inmates go?

    ie Loughan House or Shelton House.

    Not neccessarily. Both prisons are generally speaking for offenders nearing the end of their sentences. Plenty of non-violent prisoners in the system and a few tax defaulters (which is rare enough to get jail-time for anyway) that have never been near either institution and probably never will be.

    You certainly can't pay to go there !!!


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    #177
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    E mac wrote: »
    Aside from Tim Allens case (and Joshua's) what other legal problems have the Allens had?

    Cant talk about it here. Go consult back issues of the Sunday independent from 25 years back. I suspect that it has been removed from the internet. It was something very very serious that was paid away.

    Mods would shut down the thread if it was discussed and anyone discussing it would get banned


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    #178
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    IT was his grandfather, the family are employing the same tactics since the early 1990's. I am not chastising Joshua over his grandfathers peccadilloes. I am criticizing the whole family of their approach to the law and refusing to take responsibility for their actions. Different decade, different people same strategies.

    You have a real awful chip on your shoulder. I mean that.

    But I reckon it goes further than the Allens', this is a "class" thing with you, am I right?


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    #179
    The Muppet
    Registered Users Posts: 14,003 ✭✭✭✭The Muppet


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    IT was his grandfather, the family are employing the same tactics since the early 1990's. I am not chastising Joshua over his grandfathers peccadilloes. I am criticizing the whole family of their approach to the law and refusing to take responsibility for their actions. Different decade, different people same strategies.

    You are obviously pushing an agenda here . Whats your connection to this family?


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    #180
    Etc
    Registered Users Posts: 537 ✭✭✭Etc


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    I don't know, I was never offered a place.

    Given you've made it up I guess you could have made up a price too !


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    #181
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    twowheelsonly wrote: »
    Not neccessarily. Both prisons are generally speaking for offenders nearing the end of their sentences. Plenty of non-violent prisoners in the system and a few tax defaulters (which is rare enough to get jail-time for anyway) that have never been near either institution and probably never will be.

    You certainly can't pay to go there !!!

    Ok, my misunderstanding. I always assumed a few quid got you in there.


This discussion has been closed.
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