Administrative Officer 2020 in the Civil Service

motjuste

This may sound trivial, but as a foreigner who doesn't live in Ireland, I'm really not sure what the Zoom dress code is (for a man). What have people been wearing?

Ravelleman

motjuste wrote: »

This may sound trivial, but as a foreigner who doesn't live in Ireland, I'm really not sure what the Zoom dress code is (for a man). What have people been wearing?

My experience of the AP competition was that the interviewers were dress formally, presumably in order to avoid any risk of putting off the interviewee. I imagined that this was going to be the case beforehand and wore a white oxford shirt and a tweed tie - by no means formal but at the same time acknowledging that it was not a regular Zoom chat. Adjust to taste.

You'll find that dress code in the Civil Service is a mixed bag.

2020Survivor

motjuste wrote: »

This may sound trivial, but as a foreigner who doesn't live in Ireland, I'm really not sure what the Zoom dress code is (for a man). What have people been wearing?

Always and ever for a job interview with the civil service I would recommend that you be dressed formally, in this case where you indicate it’s a man doing the interview, a suit, with jacket and tie. I wouldn’t go three piece though, I’ve rarely ever see anyone wearing a three piece suit in the civil service, and the ones I have, well let’s just say, they’re not very popular in their office, serious attitude problems, they think they’re better than everyone else, probably think they should also be higher up the ladder than they have achieved.

Another tip, probably not relevant during winter, but I have been advised in the past by senior civil servants that have been on many interview boards, that even if it’s a sweltering hot day and the interviewers extend you the opportunity to take your jacket off, that you should politely decline.

yop_mayo

Anecdotally, I was wearing just a shirt for the first batch of interviews and placed top 10 in my panel.

smellyoldboot

motjuste wrote: »

This may sound trivial, but as a foreigner who doesn't live in Ireland, I'm really not sure what the Zoom dress code is (for a man). What have people been wearing?

Put it this way, you will rarely/never be marked down or thought less of in this country for being too formally dressed for an interview whereas you're always taking a chance if you decide to go too casual.

Augme

A shirt and decent jumper are also perfectly acceptable for the level it is at. It's been heavily promoted as a graduate position lately. Throw on a tie if you really want to go wild.

Cossie44

How long were people waiting for results of their interview/Presentation for the general stream?

Thanks

Ravelleman

2020Survivor wrote: »

Always and ever for a job interview with the civil service I would recommend that you be dressed formally, in this case where you indicate it’s a man doing the interview, a suit, with jacket and tie. I wouldn’t go three piece though, I’ve rarely ever see anyone wearing a three piece suit in the civil service, and the ones I have, well let’s just say, they’re not very popular in their office, serious attitude problems, they think they’re better than everyone else, probably think they should also be higher up the ladder than they have achieved.

Another tip, probably not relevant during winter, but I have been advised in the past by senior civil servants that have been on many interview boards, that even if it’s a sweltering hot day and the interviewers extend you the opportunity to take your jacket off, that you should politely decline.

I actually can't tell if this is a joke.

floorpie

smellyoldboot wrote: »

Put it this way, you will rarely/never be marked down or thought less of in this country for being too formally dressed for an interview whereas you're always taking a chance if you decide to go too casual.

Going to a tech company dressed formally is the "taking a chance" option, in my experience. That being said...

motjuste wrote: »

This may sound trivial, but as a foreigner who doesn't live in Ireland, I'm really not sure what the Zoom dress code is (for a man). What have people been wearing?

My AO panels were dressed formally on Zoom, for non-IT and IT competitions. I wore a suit and didn't feel overdressed.

floorpie

Ravelleman wrote: »

You'll find that dress code in the Civil Service is a mixed bag.

<advice to wear a suit>

Ravelleman wrote: »

I actually can't tell if this is a joke.

It seems that you're admitting you underdressed for a senior position, why advise other to do the same? I've done many Zoom interviews for the CS from EO-AP and in all cases the panels were wearing suits, even though all members were sitting at home.

Perhaps if you're an amazing candidate it wont matter. Otherwise, I think it's a simple way to reduce risk if, like many candidates, you're on the verge of succeeding/passing in any given interview. That said, I wouldn't go out of my way to buy one in current circumstances.

Augme wrote: »

A shirt and decent jumper are also perfectly acceptable for the level it is at. It's been heavily promoted as a graduate position lately. Throw on a tie if you really want to go wild.

"Graduate position" means that it requires a degree. Recent graduates can apply but you may be competing against people with significant experience.

The_Conductor

As an EO my everyday work wear was smart casual (dockers and a smart shirt) unless I was going to MCMs, Interdepartment meetings or meetings with interest groups etc- in which case, smart casual went out the window and it was a formal suit etc.

Different Divisions in different Departments will have different expectations as to what workwear is normal or expected- however, EO and up- if you're dealing with the public- tends to be formal wear.

This, in my experience, would hold for interviews- most people will dress on par with the people who are interviewing them, and will not be noted for the wrong reasons.

By the way- as EO, HEO, AO, AP etc- you are likely to have to attend formal meetings from time to time, where formal wear is the norm. Even as a code monkey, I had project boards etc which I was on the regular invitee list for. I might have gotten away with jeans and t-shirt on the days I wasn't meeting anyone- but full suit was always kept pressed in my wardrobe for the regular days when it was needed.

Zoom is a bit different- insofar as you're presentable, and have as neutral a background for your video as possible, its probably ok. I'd go with the suggestion of an Oxford shirt and a tie- and something neutral behind you (I have a large 4 foot by 12 foot map of Ireland that I sit in front of- which does the job nicely). For god's sake- do not use any of the Zoom backgrounds- you're asking for trouble unless you have a bluescreen).

Its an interview. Dress up rather than down.

Ravelleman

floorpie wrote: »

<advice to wear a suit>


It seems that you're admitting you underdressed for a senior position, why advise other to do the same? I've done many Zoom interviews for the CS from EO-AP and in all cases the panels were wearing suits, even though all members were sitting at home.

Perhaps if you're an amazing candidate it wont matter. Otherwise, I think it's a simple way to reduce risk if, like many candidates, you're on the verge of succeeding/passing in any given interview. That said, I wouldn't go out of my way to buy one in current circumstances.

The only thing that qualifies me to opine on the matter is success in the interview for which you deem me under-dressed.

The suggestion above that someone should not remove a suit jacket in a Civil Service interview in summer is either pure, satirical poetry or madness.

delricyo

Ravelleman wrote: »

The only thing that qualifies me to opine on the matter is success in the interview for which you deem me under-dressed.

The suggestion above that someone should not remove a suit jacket in a Civil Service interview in summer is either pure, satirical poetry or madness.

I agree with your point about removing the jacket. If you are warm and they offer, definitely remove it. I was offered to remove it during a very hot day. I politely declined and just sat out the 40 minutes

The_Conductor

Ravelleman wrote: »

The only thing that qualifies me to opine on the matter is success in the interview for which you deem me under-dressed.

The suggestion above that someone should not remove a suit jacket in a Civil Service interview in summer is either pure, satirical poetry or madness.

I hear you.
It sounds more like some sort of a punishment than anything else.
I'm not sure whether that suggestion was serious or not.

floorpie

Ravelleman wrote: »

The only thing that qualifies me to opine on the matter is success in the interview for which you deem me under-dressed.

You noticed that you weren't as formally dressed as the panel. That's a bad thing to notice in my opinion. You were successful and that's great, perhaps you're an exceptional candidate, but I'd rather reduce the risk that I, e.g.,: appear to the panel to be not bothered, that I misunderstand the culture, that there's a mismatch between my appearance and my CV, etc.

I doubt a suit will ever make or break you, but I'd just rather remove that variable from the equation when I have a suit sitting in my wardrobe anyway.

The suggestion above that someone should not remove a suit jacket in a Civil Service interview in summer is either pure, satirical poetry or madness.

Sorry yeah, on this I agree Though the older I get the more I realise that there's wisdom to boomer advice (all you need is a firm handshake and eye contact). I've yet to reach "swelter in your jacket and you're guaranteed the job" levels of boomerism.

Ravelleman

floorpie wrote: »

You noticed that you weren't as formally dressed as the panel. That's a bad thing to notice in my opinion. You were successful and that's great, perhaps you're an exceptional candidate, but I'd rather reduce the risk that I, e.g.,: appear to the panel to be not bothered, that I misunderstand the culture, that there's a mismatch between my appearance and my CV, etc.

I doubt a suit will ever make or break you, but I'd just rather remove that variable from the equation when I have a suit sitting in my wardrobe anyway.


Sorry yeah, on this I agree Though the older I get the more I realise that there's wisdom to boomer advice (all you need is a firm handshake and eye contact). I've yet to reach "swelter in your jacket and you're guaranteed the job" levels of boomerism.

These are very valid points.

Ultimately, people should do what makes them comfortable, be that physically, mentally or emotionally. If a suit removes a worry from the equation, then wear that suit by all means.

In my case, before my Zoom interview, I correctly imagined that the board would be formally dressed to avoid putting me or other candidates off if I/we were dressed formally. However, for me, the pretense that I was sitting in my kitchen at home on Zoom in a full suit on a Tuesday morning was too much to bear, so I went for a neat look, rather than a formal one.

General comment: my experience of the Civil Service is that there are a lot of different cultures at play simultaneously. Dress is a reflection of that and people very legitimately wear different things on different days to match contexts, as The Conductor explains. There is room for personal interpretations and tastes too.

floorpie

Ravelleman wrote: »

However, for me, the pretense that I was sitting in my kitchen at home on Zoom in a full suit on a Tuesday morning was too much to bear, so I went for a neat look, rather than a formal one.

This was difficult for me to get past, right enough.

AngryLips

delricyo wrote: »

I agree with your point about removing the jacket. If you are warm and they offer, definitely remove it. I was offered to remove it during a very hot day. I politely declined and just sat out the 40 minutes

*joins zoom call*


Sorry do you mind if I take my blazer off, I've the heating on too high

Maelenn

FYI
General stream on OOM 12

Source: PAS

yop_mayo

Maelenn wrote: »

FYI
General stream on OOM 12

Source: PAS

Snail’s pace, but all progress is welcome, given the circumstances.

PeachL00pies

Do we know up to what number General Stream candidates were called from the first stage OoM? I placed 170s following this, and submitted my application, but haven't heard back. I've just had a very confusing email exchange with PAS regarding this, and was told that people who scored more than 127 were called through to the second stage of the General Stream...

Edit: I realise now that they were referring to the combined score for Verbal Reasoning and Situational Judgement! Very confusing to jump from OoM to scores.

floorpie

PeachL00pies wrote: »

Do we know up to what number General Stream candidates were called from the first stage OoM? I placed 170s following this, and submitted my application, but haven't heard back. I've just had a very confusing email exchange with PAS regarding this, and was told that people who scored more than 127 were called through to the second stage of the General Stream...

Edit: I realise now that they were referring to the combined score for Verbal Reasoning and Situational Judgement! Very confusing to jump from OoM to scores.

I don't know how accurate it is, but someone in the thread mentioned 32 being called for interview in the first batch.

FenFlynn

I'd say up to 127 called is correct. I had my interview and presentation last Wednesday and I was a few numbers after oom 100, so anything after 127 will have to wait till this panel is established I guess.
This week is the last week of stage 2 for this batch. Hopefully we'll hear back next week.

floorpie

FenFlynn wrote: »

I'd say up to 127 called is correct. I had my interview and presentation last Wednesday and I was a few numbers after oom 100, so anything after 127 will have to wait till this panel is established I guess.
This week is the last week of stage 2 for this batch. Hopefully we'll hear back next week.

Is there a difference between a batch and a stage?

Ravelleman

floorpie wrote: »

Is there a difference between a batch and a stage?

Yes, a stage is a round of assessment, while batches are the groups by which people are taken through the stages. The selection process is staggered across stages via batches.

Pogue eile

2020Survivor wrote: »

Another tip, probably not relevant during winter, but I have been advised in the past by senior civil servants that have been on many interview boards, that even if it’s a sweltering hot day and the interviewers extend you the opportunity to take your jacket off, that you should politely decline.

Pretty sure someone was taking the piss out of you!

FenFlynn

floorpie wrote: »

Is there a difference between a batch and a stage?

Yeah, you are batch 1 after two stages of assessments. If I'm lucky enough to pass everything I'll be given an OOM for batch 2. We'll only be called after the first batch is exhausted.

belgowho

Did anyone else get interruptions very soon into your answers? I didn't get much time to answer a few of mine. I understood that we may get them for the benefit of time but I got a few like 20 seconds into some answers

floorpie

belgowho wrote: »

Did anyone else get interruptions very soon into your answers? I didn't get much time to answer a few of mine. I understood that we may get them for the benefit of time but I got a few like 20 seconds into some answers

I feel like panels tend to move on once they hear what they want to hear, even if that just takes a few seconds...? I also think that the common advice to construct answers using STAR is good for preparation, but in practice interviews tend to be more conversational, i.e., sometimes short replies are enough. I wouldn't fret it.

belgowho

floorpie wrote: »

I feel like panels tend to move on once they hear what they want to hear, even if that just takes a few seconds...? I also think that the common advice to construct answers using STAR is good for preparation, but in practice interviews tend to be more conversational, i.e., sometimes short replies are enough. I wouldn't fret it.

STAR is definitely useful and worked perfectly previously.

In this case, it was a bit hard as in some answers, not all, I couldn't even get past the S part.