Administrative Officer 2020 in the Civil Service

November Golf

Hi All,

Upcoming Campaign

The Administrative Officer campaign is due to open on the 02/10/2020

• General Stream (All Disciplines)
• Business and Finance Stream
• Health Policy Analyst Stream
• Human Resources Stream
• Economists & Policy Analysts Stream

https://www.publicjobs.ie/en/graduate-opportunities

... ... ...

Currently Advertising

The Public Appointments Service are current advertising for following

1. Graduate Industrial and Employee Relations Specialists in the Public Service
2. Third Secretary in the Department of Foreign Affairs
3. Development Officer in the Department of Foreign Affairs

These positions are open to applications on 18/09/2020.

The closing date for the IR/ER role is the 28/09/2020
The closing date for the TS/DOS role is 08/10/2020

https://publicjobs.ie/en/graduate-opportunities
... ... ...

Cheeseplant

wonder what will be involved in the Health Policy stream and more importantly, will i qualify?!

floorpie

Great! Is it my imagination or are there an unusually large number of campaigns going on at the moment? I naively assumed that there'd be a hiring embargo due to Covid

Gus Ivey

Can't see anything about job descriptions and eligibility requirements on OP's link.

Can someone please advise on eligibility? I have a level 8 honours degree, is that enough? Or do you need to have a few years experience in the CS?

floorpie

Gus Ivey wrote: »

Can't see anything about job descriptions and eligibility requirements on OP's link.

Can someone please advise on eligibility? I have a level 8 honours degree, is that enough? Or do you need to have a few years experience in the CS?

Click "Learn more and apply" on the two positions that are open, then scroll down to the bottom and click the Information Booklet link

November Golf

floorpie wrote: »

Great! Is it my imagination or are there an unusually large number of campaigns going on at the moment? I naively assumed that there'd be a hiring embargo due to Covid

Well the AO Health Policy stream and the DFA Development Officer are new this year but the rest are all the usual annual campaigns.

Anyway, PAS may run campaigns but it doesn't gaurantee jobs or numbers so an embargo of some kind may still come in the budget.

doc22

floorpie wrote: »

Great! Is it my imagination or are there an unusually large number of campaigns going on at the moment? I naively assumed that there'd be a hiring embargo due to Covid

Trying to get staff in the door before any embargo perhaps

Augme

floorpie wrote: »

Great! Is it my imagination or are there an unusually large number of campaigns going on at the moment? I naively assumed that there'd be a hiring embargo due to Covid

From a PR (and economics) perspective the government will not want to send out the message that their is an embargo so Id very much expect it to look like business as normal.

Very much different behind the scenes though. The panels will move much slower and the numbers taken will see a massive reduction compared to previous comptetitions.

Wonderstruck

Augme wrote: »

From a PR (and economics) perspective the government will not want to send out the message that their is an embargo so Id very much expect it to look like business as normal.

Very much different behind the scenes though. The panels will move much slower and the numbers taken will see a massive reduction compared to previous comptetitions.

There's a load of people due to retire in October after the last PSSA pay increase, they may be contingency planning by having a lot of panels ready to go. Though nothing like causing yet another retirement cliffedge to deal with when they put in another embargo :pac::pac::pac:

Aes Triplex 94

If you apply for several streams for the AO competition, do you have to do separate aptitude tests for each stream or would they use the results of your first attempt for the other streams?

Aleece2020

There are people in the AO position currently offering advice in the form of one-to-one video calls on gradIreland's website. Register for the gradIreland fair and book an appointment with one of them. Received some extremely solid advice from two of them today and would recommend that others do the same.

job seeker

Aleece2020 wrote: »

There are people in the AO position currently offering advice in the form of one-to-one video calls on gradIreland's website. Register for the gradIreland fair and book an appointment with one of them. Received some extremely solid advice from two of them today and would recommend that others do the same.

Is this the careers fair you're referring too?

https://gradireland.com/events/gradireland-graduate-careers-fair-virtual

If so that ended today..

job seeker

Aes Triplex 94 wrote: »

If you apply for several streams for the AO competition, do you have to do separate aptitude tests for each stream or would they use the results of your first attempt for the other streams?

I assume it'll be the one aptitude test. The reason why I'm thinking this is, a couple of years ago I applied for CO in the prison service and CO in immigration. I was only required to one aptitude test for both separate competitions. Sure you can apply and see what happens?

Conqueror

The general competition has now opened.

Note the closing date of 15:00 next Thursday, 8th October

Campaign booklet

beanyb

This is an oddly short closing date, no?

ciano316

Has anybody applied for this already?

Not the same as before or am I missing something?

I clicked apply and there was 1 single form to fill out

rostalof

beanyb wrote: »

This is an oddly short closing date, no?

Yes, but it was much the same last year.

ciano316 wrote: »

Has anybody applied for this already?

Not the same as before or am I missing something?

I clicked apply and there was 1 single form to fill out

This is similar to last year too. I think the next stage will be the online tests and they whittle the numbers down from there. I presume there'll be a more detailed form at some stage down the line. This way saves some hassle for everybody involved. You may fill out the form at a later date if you progress and PAS only has to screen these forms, which is far less than the amount to be screened if every applicant submitted one.

ciano316

rostalof wrote: »

Yes, but it was much the same last year.



This is similar to last year too. I think the next stage will be the online tests and they whittle the numbers down from there. I presume there'll be a more detailed form at some stage down the line. This way saves some hassle for everybody involved. You may fill out the form at a later date if you progress and PAS only has to screen these forms, which is far less than the amount to be screened if every applicant submitted one.

Ah OK. Few years since I did the AO one. It was 2 full forms last time I did it. One online and one you download. Thanks

rostalof

ciano316 wrote: »

Ah OK. Few years since I did the AO one. It was 2 full forms last time I did it. One online and one you download. Thanks

Yeah, that's how it was done until last year.

beanyb

rostalof wrote: »

Yes, but it was much the same last year.



This is similar to last year too. I think the next stage will be the online tests and they whittle the numbers down from there. I presume there'll be a more detailed form at some stage down the line. This way saves some hassle for everybody involved. You may fill out the form at a later date if you progress and PAS only has to screen these forms, which is far less than the amount to be screened if every applicant submitted one.

Interesting! I guess there's no need for a long lead in date when the application process is so simple.

doc22

Is it dublin only this year again?

rostalof

doc22 wrote: »

Is it dublin only this year again?

Seems to be unfortunately.

StevenToast

Its says 'Nationwide' on the business/finance info page but dublin elsewhere...

With remote working in place for a long time, might be worth sticking application in

doc22

StevenToast wrote: »

Its says 'Nationwide' on the business/finance info page but dublin elsewhere...

With remote working in place for a long time, might be worth sticking application in

By the time one would start as AO I'd hope the vaccine will be well on it's way. AO is not the grade to attempt to transfer down the country either(i.e I wouldn't leave a good job in hope to transfer back).

StevenToast

I think remote working is here to stay...maybe 2 or 3 days in the office

newbie18892

Well that was the easiest application form i've ever filled in lol

job seeker

It states that the general stream was nationwide. Will I just take this as all the positions been in Dublin similarly to how it was stated as being nationwide two years ago. With all the positions in Dublin? (From what I recall reading on that particular thread..)

BlueJay424

I graduated in 2014, so not exactly recent. Reckon it's ok to apply?

Conqueror

BlueJay424 wrote: »

I graduated in 2014, so not exactly recent. Reckon it's ok to apply?

More than OK. What matters is that you meet the criteria, it doesn't matter when you obtained them.

job seeker

BlueJay424 wrote: »

I graduated in 2014, so not exactly recent. Reckon it's ok to apply?

Yes!

AOHopeful2019

BlueJay424 wrote: »

I graduated in 2014, so not exactly recent. Reckon it's ok to apply?

Yeah I graduated a couple of years before that and I got an AO position this year!

BlueJay424

Thanks, the numerical for the EO was quite tough I thought so maybe I'll get a second chance here!

The_Conductor

At least its a simple application form- may as well apply, if only to get a bit more experience in the online tests.

Vologda69

BlueJay424 wrote: »

Thanks, the numerical for the EO was quite tough I thought so maybe I'll get a second chance here!

Generally AO tests are more difficult than EO ones. That said, this years EO numerical was far more difficult and bore no resemblance to previous EO tests.

HairyCabbage

Hi, I currently work as an AO in the CS and have done for about 3 yrs. I was considering entering this competition as the rollout of the new mobility scheme for AOs has been delayed due to Covid and I would really like to transfer and gain some experience in a different Department. Does anyone know if I will remain at my current point on the payscale or if I will revert to point 1? If I remain at my current point will the date of my increment change? Also, will I have to go through a probation again? Thanks!

rostalof

HairyCabbage wrote: »

Hi, I currently work as an AO in the CS and have done for about 3 yrs. I was considering entering this competition as the rollout of the new mobility scheme for AOs has been delayed due to Covid and I would really like to transfer and gain some experience in a different Department. Does anyone know if I will remain at my current point on the payscale or if I will revert to point 1? If I remain at my current point will the date of my increment change? Also, will I have to go through a probation again? Thanks!

You'll continue at your current point on the payscale and with the same increment date. You're an established AO so probation won't apply either. You have nothing to lose. I know because after 4.5 years as an EO I moved department via an open competition last year and I retained my point on the salary scale, my increment date and I had no probation period. My initial contract said there would be a probationary period, but it turned out that was because the department hadn't been informed I was an established serving EO.

HairyCabbage

rostalof wrote: »

You'll continue at your current point on the payscale and with the same increment date. You're an established AO so probation won't apply either. You have nothing to lose. I know because after 4.5 years as an EO I moved department via an open competition last year and I retained my point on the salary scale, my increment date and I had no probation period. My initial contract said there would be a probationary period, but it turned out that was because the department hadn't been informed I was an established serving EO.

Thanks! I wonder if it's the policy of the CS that you don't have to do a probationary period for the same role twice or if it's at the discretion of the Department? Do you know if your pension was affected? As if there'd been a break? Was your new job treated as a transfer by your old and new Dept? Sorry for all the questions!

doc22

HairyCabbage wrote: »

Thanks! I wonder if it's the policy of the CS that you don't have to do a probationary period for the same role twice or if it's at the discretion of the Department? Do you know if your pension was affected? As if there'd been a break? Was your new job treated as a transfer by your old and new Dept? Sorry for all the questions!

Id say it's up to the department, when you apply for an open role there's meant to be probation. But my previous role that going into I was not established in didn't even have probation in the sense of meeting and reviews as departments/staff didn't want the bother.

But say as an established EO I apply for an IT EO role(and get it), the employing department has no obligation to keep me if I'm crap at IT after 12 months and back to my old department/redeployment I go if I'm not up to it(all recent comps seem to have this condition). But this is the civil service and NOONE fails probation.Mobility "officially" is a different ball game, when you're gone you're gone.

rostalof

doc22 wrote: »

Id say it's up to the department, when you apply for an open role there's meant to be probation. But my previous role that going into I was not established in didn't even have probation in the sense of meeting and reviews as departments/staff didn't want the bother.

But say as an established EO I apply for an IT EO role(and get it), the employing department has no obligation to keep me if I'm crap at IT after 12 months and back to my old department/redeployment I go if I'm not up to it(all recent comps seem to have this condition). But this is the civil service and NOONE fails probation. Mobility "officially" is a different ball game, when you're gone you're gone.

That's the exact situation I was in. I started as an EO ICT in 2015, then moved into general service to get a transfer out of Dublin. Then three years later I was successful in another EO ICT competition and moved department. Where was this condition specified in the recent competitions? The new department might well be able to send you back if they wanted due to poor performance (although I'm not sure about that either), but if you're established as an EO or an AO for that matter, you are not obliged to undergo probation again for a grade that you are established in. If you moved to a new department while still on probation, yes, you'd have to continue as a probationer. I got that from the HR department in my new department last year. Someone else in DPER confirmed it to me.

doc22

rostalof wrote: »

That's the exact situation I was in. I started as an EO ICT in 2015, then moved into general service to get a transfer out of Dublin. Then three years later I was successful in another EO ICT competition and moved department. Where was this condition specified in the recent competitions? The new department might well be able to send you back if they wanted due to poor performance (although I'm not sure about that either), but if you're established as an EO or an AO for that matter, you are not obliged to undergo probation again for a grade that you are established in. If you moved to a new department while still on probation, yes, you'd have to continue as a probationer. I got that from the HR department in my new department last year. Someone else in DPER confirmed it to me.

This text seems to be on all open comps now(didn't see it before much)

All appointees will serve a one-year probationary period. If an appointee who fails to satisfy the conditions of probation has been a serving civil servant immediately prior to their appointment from this competition, the issue of reversion will normally arise. In the event of reversion, an officer will return to a vacancy in their former grade in their former Department

The above text was in EO IT,EO general and EO revenue comps but would apply to all grades.

For example established COs take positions in Airport and Prison service at CO levels but if the role isn't for them they often revert.Once your established in new role(passed probation) you can't revert roles.Although I read in forsa that at the time justice wanted COs to resign from their original role(presumably rather then transfer into roles)

rostalof

doc22 wrote: »

This text seems to be on all open comps now(didn't see it before much)

All appointees will serve a one-year probationary period. If an appointee who fails to satisfy the conditions of probation has been a serving civil servant immediately prior to their appointment from this competition, the issue of reversion will normally arise. In the event of reversion, an officer will return to a vacancy in their former grade in their former Department

The above text was in EO IT,EO general and EO revenue comps but would apply to all grades.

For example established COs take positions in Airport and Prison service at CO levels but if the role isn't for them they often revert.Once your established in new role(passed probation) you can't revert roles.Although I read in forsa that at the time justice wanted COs to resign from their original role(presumably rather then transfer into roles)

True, that's in all current competition information booklets. I've always taken that paragraph to refer to a promotional appointment, as it specifies returning to your former grade, similar to section 43 in the attached PDF. The option to revert certainly exists to my understanding in the case of being appointed at the same grade, and it's entirely possible that probation is applicable if moving to a specialist type role in an equivalent grade as you described. But for a current standard AO to be appointed as a standard AO again, there shouldn't be a probation period. In my case I was established as an EO ICT initially, so returning to the same role meant probation wasn't applicable in this case.

Minifox

If you are an established EO and you get AO in an open competition, do you go back to point 1 on the salary scale for AO? I suppose so, as it’s a different grade. And a one year probation period too, I guess?

Minifox

Minifox wrote: »

If you are an established EO and you get AO in an open competition, do you go back to point 1 on the salary scale for AO? I suppose so, as it’s a different grade. And a one year probation period too, I guess?

If your salary is higher as a eo you can try claim back the salary point

The_Conductor

Minifox wrote: »

If you are an established EO and you get AO in an open competition, do you go back to point 1 on the salary scale for AO? I suppose so, as it’s a different grade. And a one year probation period too, I guess?

You go to the point closest to your current salary point, without suffering a reduction in pay. Your increment date changes to your offical date of appointment in the new grade. You have a new 1 year probationary period, which if you're deemed unsatisfactory at the end of- you revert to your previous substantive grade. You would not be entitled to your old post back- you would be entitled to the next available post at your old grade that arises. It pays to keep on good terms with HR in your original Home Department........

rostalof

The_Conductor wrote: »

You go to the point closest to your current salary point, without suffering a reduction in pay. Your increment date changes to your offical date of appointment in the new grade. You have a new 1 year probationary period, which if you're deemed unsatisfactory at the end of- you revert to your previous substantive grade. You would not be entitled to your old post back- you would be entitled to the next available post at your old grade that arises. It pays to keep on good terms with HR in your original Home Department........

Spot on Conductor. https://www.gov.ie/en/circular/57443f-082019-starting-pay-on-promotion/#

AngryLips

Is it possible to apply to more than one stream of this competition?

The_Conductor

AngryLips wrote: »

Is it possible to apply to more than one stream of this competition?

Certainly it is- you just need to ensure you hold the requisite qualifications necessary for the different streams. Note- if you do get through to interview and are in multiple streams- you only have one interview- not multiple interviews- and the marks from that interview carry for all the panels you have applied for.

lucat

Anyone else find it odd that this competition is only open for 6 days?

The_Conductor

lucat wrote: »

Anyone else find it odd that this competition is only open for 6 days?

They did the same last year- yes, its a tight window- however, they will still have possibly 20-30 candidates for every post that might arise. Particularly at times like this- the Public Sector have no issue attracting prospective employees- whether or not they hang around when better times beckon, is a different story.

So- yes, there is precedent in having very tight windows- however, this particular competition was announced over a month ago- only you couldn't apply immediately- so most people who are interested presumably set up alerts etc.

lucat

The_Conductor wrote: »

They did the same last year- yes, its a tight window- however, they will still have possibly 20-30 candidates for every post that might arise. Particularly at times like this- the Public Sector have no issue attracting prospective employees- whether or not they hang around when better times beckon, is a different story.

So- yes, there is precedent in having very tight windows- however, this particular competition was announced over a month ago- only you couldn't apply immediately- so most people who are interested presumably set up alerts etc.

I only found out about it this morning but I haven't been searching for it on Publicjobs to be fair.

It's funny you say that about the public sector- I'm probably going to be leaving it soon
for more moolah in the private sector! Just waiting on an offer.

AngryLips

lucat wrote: »

Anyone else find it odd that this competition is only open for 6 days?

I'm assuming it's because the application is literally you ticking a check-box and hitting submit ...how much time do people need for something like that? It's not like you're prepping a CV or lengthier application form