Rushed Covid 19 vaccine

LLMMLL

King Mob wrote: »

But history hasn't born that out as we can see from the persistence of pretty much every other conspiracy theory.

That would.imply that the only tactic to date has been ignoring them. Lots of these persistent CTs have been extensively challenged. So challenging them doesn't do much either.

But I don't disagree with him. I've said several times that his concerns are reasonable. I've said several times that it's clear his concerns are separate from the wacky ones being proposed.

My point again is that the wacky theories are going to drown out the reasonable concerns.
Ignoring them, hoping they'll go away and getting huffy when people point at them isn't going to stop that.

Then why do you need him to disavow the crazies. It's not fair to ask people to preface their opinions with "I'm not one of the crazies but....". That just makes them sound like a crazy.

And the particular CTs posed on this thread have been TOO whacky to ever gain any traction. Mark-of-the-beast-new-world-order is like ten million levels above my-child-got-autism.

FutureTeashock

King Mob wrote: »

But history hasn't born that out as we can see from the persistence of pretty much every other conspiracy theory.


But I don't disagree with him. I've said several times that his concerns are reasonable. I've said several times that it's clear his concerns are separate from the wacky ones being proposed.

My point again is that the wacky theories are going to drown out the reasonable concerns.
Ignoring them, hoping they'll go away and getting huffy when people point at them isn't going to stop that.

You need to accept that a large % of people won't be taking the vaccine and there's nothing you can do about it.

The reason each individual rejects the vaccine is irrelevant, it's their personal choice.

King Mob

LLMMLL wrote: »

That would.imply that the only tactic to date has been ignoring them. Lots of these persistent CTs have been extensively challenged. So challenging them doesn't do much either.

Then why do you need him to disavow the crazies. It's not fair to ask people to preface their opinions with "I'm not one of the crazies but....". That just makes them sound like a crazy.

And the particular CTs posed on this thread have been TOO whacky to ever gain any traction. Mark-of-the-beast-new-world-order is like ten million levels above my-child-got-autism.

But why not directly address the conspiracy theorists posting their wacky theories on this thread to take it elsewhere?
Why not when creating the "safe space for sceptics of the vaccine" specifically exclude the wacky stuff?

FutureTeashock

King Mob wrote: »

But why not directly address the conspiracy theorists posting their wacky theories on this thread to take it elsewhere?
Why not when creating the "safe space for sceptics of the vaccine" specifically exclude the wacky stuff?

I'm the architect of this thread and I'm 100% unequivocally in favour of freedom of opinion and expression.

Create your own limited thread if this offends you.

King Mob

FutureTeashock wrote: »

The reason each individual rejects the vaccine is irrelevant, it's their personal choice.

But it is relevant.
One person might be doing so because of legitimate concerns.
Other people might be doing it because they believe it's the mark of the beast.

Are you saying there's no difference there?
Are both reasons valid?

King Mob

FutureTeashock wrote: »

I'm the architect of this thread and I'm 100% unequivocally in favour of freedom of opinion and expression.

Create your own limited thread if this offends you.

Then as I said, any legitimate concerns are going to be drowned out by the wacky theories.

LLMMLL

King Mob wrote: »

But why not directly address the conspiracy theorists posting their wacky theories on this thread to take it elsewhere?
Why not when creating the "safe space for sceptics of the vaccine" specifically exclude the wacky stuff?

It's in the CT forum. What more do you want?

LLMMLL

King Mob wrote: »

But it is relevant.
One person might be doing so because of legitimate concerns.
Other people might be doing it because they believe it's the mark of the beast.

Are you saying there's no difference there?
Are both reasons valid?

There's definitely a difference but the ones with valid concerns do not have to deal with the crazies. They are not their responsibility.

LessOutragePlz

King Mob wrote: »

Yes. I believe that is all of the type of stuff LessOutragePlz has said he doesn't want his reasonable concerns to be lumped in with.

Thank you for outlining them.

LessOutragePlz, do you want your beliefs lumped in with the above claims?
Do you believe the above claims are worth considering and holding on equal terms to your concerns?
Dionaibh seems to believe so.

No I wouldn't want my beliefs to be lumped in with those claims as I don't believe those claims so I don't see any reason for them to be included with mine.

I believe those claims can be discussed and debated but I think there's a lot less evidence if any to support those claims but if evidence was produced to support those claims I'd change my opinion on them

People are entitled to believe that my claims about the vaccine and their claims "belong" together but at the end of the day that's their opinion and they're entitled to their opinion so I'm not going to try silence them or berate them for having a different opinion to mine.

FutureTeashock

King Mob wrote: »

But it is relevant.
One person might be doing so because of legitimate concerns.
Other people might be doing it because they believe it's the mark of the beast.

Are you saying there's no difference there?
Are both reasons valid?

Absolutely, because vaccine extremists are calling on those who forego the jab to be banned from entering shops and travelling. That essentially is the mark of the beast.

English: "17And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Nothing crazy at all about that view.

King Mob

FutureTeashock wrote: »

Nothing crazy at all about that view.

And case and point.

Like I said. Reasonable concerns are going to be drowned out by the crazy theories like biblical prophesies.

And when the majority of people refusing the vaccine are doing so for silly, unscientific reasons, it will be a bit to late to moan about people being lumped together with conspiracy theorists.

Dohnjoe

LLMMLL wrote: »

I don't agree about challenging conspiracy theories. I think that legitimizes them. I think if the conspiracy theories were ignored they'd die out. But people argue about them and the conspiracy theory holder gets more emotionally invested in them and believes them even more.

Unfortunately conspiracy theorists and woo merchants have learnt to disguise themselves as "skeptics", the main anti-vax thread on AH was full of the "I'm just concerned about.. " types. All too often we've seen that the BiG pHaRmA = EviL stuff is not far behind.

Look at this thread, it was moved to conspiracy theorists, even the mods can see through it at this stage. If there are posters with reasonable concerns/questions, that's fine, but that's what the experts and professionals are for.

FutureTeashock

King Mob wrote: »

And case and point.

Like I said. Reasonable concerns are going to be drowned out by the crazy theories like biblical prophesies.

And when the majority of people refusing the vaccine are doing so for silly, unscientific reasons, it will be a bit to late to moan about people being lumped together with conspiracy theorists.

Many people will reject the vaccine for multitudinous reasons, so your point is rubbish.

For me it's an all you can eat buffet of reasons why I'm not taking the vaccine.:o

Dionaibh

FutureTeashock wrote: »

Absolutely, because vaccine extremists are calling on those who forego the jab to be banned from entering shops and travelling. That essentially is the mark of the beast.

English: "17And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Nothing crazy at all about that view.

Exactly. But notice the argument, or claim, is never addressed. It's just dismissed as 'conspiracy rubbish' even though, as you say, not being able to enter shops or travel is essentially the Mark of the Beast.

I fear that the issue may be more to do with the Mark of the Beast being a biblical prophecy. There exists a tremendous hatred for Christianity in the West, particularly in Ireland.

Dionaibh

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Unfortunately conspiracy theorists and woo merchants have learnt to disguise themselves as "skeptics", the main anti-vax thread on AH was full of the "I'm just concerned about.. " types. All too often we've seen that the BiG pHaRmA = EviL stuff is not far behind.

Look at this thread, it was moved to conspiracy theorists, even the mods can see through it at this stage. If there are posters with reasonable concerns/questions, that's fine, but that's what the experts and professionals are for.

Why is it unreasonable to believe that 'a new world order behind closed doors' does in fact mean 'a new world order behind closed doors'? Unreasonable to be concerned about the planet being reset? Unreasonable to be concerned about doctors and scientists being censored?

LLMMLL

King Mob wrote: »

And case and point.

Like I said. Reasonable concerns are going to be drowned out by the crazy theories like biblical prophesies.

And when the majority of people refusing the vaccine are doing so for silly, unscientific reasons, it will be a bit to late to moan about people being lumped together with conspiracy theorists.

There is no way that a significant number of people who don't get the vaccine will be doing so because of the mark of the beast.

Dohnjoe

Dionaibh wrote: »

Why is it unreasonable to believe that 'a new world order behind closed doors' does in fact mean 'a new world order behind closed doors'? Unreasonable to be concerned about the planet being reset? Unreasonable to be concerned about doctors and scientists being censored?

Yes, it's unreasonable. (No offense) It shows that person has a low grip on reality and poor critical thinking skills.

King Mob

LLMMLL wrote: »

There is no way that a significant number of people who don't get the vaccine will be doing so because of the mark of the beast.

Well I didn't just mean specifically because of the mark of the beast.
There are many silly and ridiculous reasons that have been presented.
A large amount of people believe that the virus is artificial.

Specifically, for the mark of the beast, we have at least 3 people who seem to give it some weight, including the author of the thread.

King Mob

FutureTeashock wrote: »

Many people will reject the vaccine for multitudinous reasons, so your point is rubbish.

Yes. And a large portion of them will be silly unscientific reasons.

LLMMLL

King Mob wrote: »

Well I didn't just mean specifically because of the mark of the beast.
There are many silly and ridiculous reasons that have been presented.
A large amount of people believe that the virus is artificial.

Specifically, for the mark of the beast, we have at least 3 people who seem to give it some weight, including the author of the thread.

Yeah but we're in the CT forum. It's not reresentative.

Dionaibh

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Yes, it's unreasonable. (No offense) It shows that person has a low grip on reality and poor critical thinking skills.

None taken

But I don't know what else 'a new world order behind closed doors' could mean. If they meant 'a new world behind closed doors'. i.e. staying at home, then surely that's what they would've said.

And WEF has said they want to reset every aspect of human behaviour. I find that alarming.

But just to get back the vaccine, as I said previously, I would be willing to take the Russian vaccine as I believe it to be safe based on what I've read about it.

FutureTeashock

King Mob wrote: »

Yes. And a large portion of them will be silly unscientific reasons.

They don't need a scientific reason to reject the vaccine. In fact they don't need any reason at all. It's their choice! Why is it so hard for you to grasp that?

briany

Guys,
It succeded me, via an insider, to get this Russian vaccine against COVID-19. And for people who are scared that it is not tested and sæfe, i can tēll yöū i triəd itski and thëræ is hardly efectoski secundarioski и меня зовут Лопес Обрадор, и я коррумпирован и лжец и почему я даю чистые прямые награды.

King Mob

LLMMLL wrote: »

Yeah but we're in the CT forum. It's not reresentative.

It was started elsewhere.
By someone who believes the mark of the beast angle is reasonable.

It's pretty representative I think.

FutureTeashock

King Mob wrote: »

It was started elsewhere.
By someone who believes the mark of the beast angle is reasonable.

It's pretty representative I think.

Don't put words in my mouth! My reasons are stated in the first post.

I meant I can see why people are citing the mark of the beast.

Those people, unlike me, are obviously religious.

Dohnjoe

LLMMLL wrote: »

There is no way that a significant number of people who don't get the vaccine will be doing so because of the mark of the beast.

Measles is making a comeback because this exact problem exists. There are a multitude of reasons why people refuse vaccines, many of these "reasons" are related to vaccine-denial disinfo, and increasingly many are linked to this new wave of "vaccine skepticism", aka the art of casting doubt of vaccine effectiveness

It's all underscored by a lack of understanding by lay-people, some of whom falsely believe they know as much or more than the consensus of medical science. Often these people display the same traits of not trusting authority (experts, researchers, regulators, etc) and instead turning to internet "info" on the subject. Likewise, they are often easily manipulated by isolated cases, or isolated "experts", rather than anything systematic.

King Mob

FutureTeashock wrote: »

They don't need a scientific reason to reject the vaccine. In fact they don't need any reason at all. It's their choice! Why is it so hard for you to grasp that?

But shouldn't that choice be based on good information and clear thinking?

What if the reason they don't want to get the vaccine isn't true (like the idea that it's a giant world government plot as predicted in the bible.)?
I guess we're not allowed to point that out or explain why it isn't true cause it will interfere with their choice?

LessOutragePlz

Dionaibh wrote: »

And WEF has said they want to reset every aspect of human behaviour. I find that alarming.

I'll admit that I've only browsed the WEF site in relation to the great reset.

Just wondering if there a link to their plan to reset every aspect of human behaviour?

King Mob

FutureTeashock wrote: »

Don't put words in my mouth! My reasons are stated in the first post.

I meant I can see why people are citing the mark of the beast.

Those people, unlike me, are obviously religious.

But you said it was a valid reason for rejecting the vaccine.

Do you not believe the bible predicted these vaccines?
Are the people who do believe that wrong?

storker

Dionaibh wrote: »

His predictions have a habit of coming true, and he has extraordinary influence on global health.

Maybe he's a prophet.