Rushed Covid 19 vaccine

Dionaibh

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

As per your links he isn't their top donor

"PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP announced Friday afternoon that the United States would be "terminating" the country's relationship with the World Health Organization and redirecting funding elsewhere. If such a halt on U.S. funding to the WHO becomes permanent, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation would become the top donor to the international agency, above any government in the world."

It says in the opening paragraph of one of the articles that he would be. Maybe I should've said it set to become.

Timberrrrrrrr

Dionaibh wrote: »

"PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP announced Friday afternoon that the United States would be "terminating" the country's relationship with the World Health Organization and redirecting funding elsewhere. If such a halt on U.S. funding to the WHO becomes permanent, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation would become the top donor to the international agency, above any government in the world."

It says in the opening paragraph of one of the articles that he would be. Maybe I should've said it set to become.

Article is wrong.

From.the WHO website

https://www.who.int/westernpacific/about/partnerships/donors

Our top voluntary contributors

United States of America
United Nations
Republic of Korea
Australia
Gates Foundation
Japan
GAVI Alliance
National Philanthropic Trust
United Kingdom
New Zealand
Bloomberg
European Commission

Heart Break Kid

Dohnjoe wrote: »

I am questioning the logic of it. Some individuals decide they "know more" than large bodies of experts on a subject they know actually know very little about.

Also if people don't take vaccines, it can put others at risk.

Not anti Vax by any means but blindly trusting large organisations seems a tad naive.

It’s important to ask questions and look at actual scientific facts. This mad rush for a vaccine seems far too convenient.

Dohnjoe

patnor1011 wrote: »

You can not compare vaccines which were developed, tested, used and studied for a long time with current covid vaccines which are still in development and then state if people dont take them it can put others at risk.

If people don't get vaccinated, there's a chance they can catch and spread an infectious disease to others. So yes, people choosing not to vaccinate can put others at risk

You seems to dismiss the fact that there are trials lasting years where participants are monitored for very long time to see if there may be some delayed response or damage. Drugs or vaccines can be declared safe only after number of years pass without signifficant number of complications.

If the experts who spend 5 or 10 or 15 years making vaccines, state that (at some point) this new Covid-19 vaccine is relatively safe, then we have to trust them and the science

People on the internet who are paranoid of authority, or think they know more than experts or trust their "gut instincts" can (and will) do whatever they want - it has no relevance to whether the vaccine is effective and relatively safe

patnor1011

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Article is wrong.

From.the WHO website

https://www.who.int/westernpacific/about/partnerships/donors

Our top voluntary contributors

United States of America
United Nations
Republic of Korea
Australia
Gates Foundation
Japan
GAVI Alliance
National Philanthropic Trust
United Kingdom
New Zealand
Bloomberg
European Commission

Do you realize that number 5 and number 7 are the same?

Timberrrrrrrr

patnor1011 wrote: »

Do you realize that number 5 and number 7 are the same?

No they aren't, and will you now admit that you were wrong about Gates being the WHO biggest donor?

Sconsey

Heart Break Kid wrote: »

Not anti Vax by any means but blindly trusting large organisations seems a tad naive.

It’s important to ask questions and look at actual scientific facts. This mad rush for a vaccine seems far too convenient.

Do you trust the regulating bodies that oversee the trials and introduction of vaccines? Because it's the same guys applying the same regulations. So even if you don't trust the vaccine developers, you should trust the regulation.

It’s important to ask questions and look at actual scientific facts. This mad rush for a vaccine seems far too convenient.

Huh? convenient? I don't get that at all.....I know this is the conspiracy theory forum but are you really thinking the virus was produced so someone could make a few quid off a vaccine? If that is the case you should check out how much these companies actually stand to make, not a huge amount really. Coupled with the fact that most governments have already paid for a lot of them there is no mad incentive to rush them on a financial basis....now on a purely humanitarian basis it makes sense to make them available asap.

Dohnjoe

Heart Break Kid wrote: »

Not anti Vax by any means but blindly trusting large organisations seems a tad naive.

There are regulators, review boards, experts, governments, scientists all working together to come up with a safe and effective vaccine. It's a massive operation involving scrutiny, checks and balances on every level. These people, their families, their relatives, colleagues, etc will be taking the vaccine.

There are some people, with no medical knowledge or understanding, who will blindly distrust that whole process, which has been producing effective vaccines for decades... but trust their own complete lack of knowledge on the subject.

4068ac1elhodqr

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Our top voluntary contributors

United States of America (nation)
United Nations (group of nations)
Republic of Korea (nation)
Australia (nation)
Gates Foundation
Japan (nation)
GAVI Alliance

Worth noting that these two independent groups, are two of the same coin, Gates (BGF) greatly funds GAVI. The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation pledged $1.6 billion to the (GAVI) the organization, of which it helped to establish two decades ago. Also closely tied to these two groups in various projects are the Rockefellers (loadsamoney, even more than Bill). They are also all tied closely to a powerful MIT Team, that has a great sway of medi-tech software and vaccine device soloutions.

GAVI also held the Global Vaccine Summit recently, hosted by Boris and chums. They've recieved more billions from states and independent wealthy individuals. Perhaps more in the last 6mths that at any time prior, which hasn't registered on some wikipage as of yet. They GAVI also helped found and partner a huge DigitalID program (id2020.org) tied closely to vaccines.

patnor1011

Dohnjoe wrote: »

If people don't get vaccinated, there's a chance they can catch and spread an infectious disease to others. So yes, people choosing not to vaccinate can put others at risk

Sure. As is the case with most of the vaccines but not this one. Not yet.

Dohnjoe wrote: »

If the experts who spend 5 or 10 or 15 years making vaccines, state that (at some point) this new Covid-19 vaccine is relatively safe, then we have to trust them and the science

None of them stated that yet. Since they know their field none of them would go on record unless 5 or 10 or 15 years will pass.
That is why you have people with zero medicinal experience pushing for accelerated global use of something they invested money in. It is called return of investment.

Dohnjoe wrote: »

People on the internet who are paranoid of authority, or think they know more than experts or trust their "gut instincts" can (and will) do whatever they want - it has no relevance to whether the vaccine is effective and relatively safe

But we do not know that yet right? You and me and those experts you mention still do not know if it is effective and have no idea if it is safe.

Define "relatively safe" please. Put some numbers to it. How many dead or disabled people is acceptable to declare something is "relatively safe"?

Dionaibh

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

No they aren't, and will you now admit that you were wrong about Gates being the WHO biggest donor?

I was actually the poster who said he was. I was wrong. Thanks.

patnor1011

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

No they aren't, and will you now admit that you were wrong about Gates being the WHO biggest donor?

You lost the plot a little confusing me with someone else.
Since Gates foundation is founding partner of Gavi then yes, they are the same or better said there are the same people behind both of them.

Timberrrrrrrr

patnor1011 wrote: »

You lost the plot a little confusing me with someone else.
Since Gates foundation is founding partner of Gavi then yes, they are the same or better said there are the same people behind both of them.

No, they are not the same. Maybe do some research and come back to me when you understand why they are not the same.

Dohnjoe

patnor1011 wrote: »

None of them stated that yet. Since they know their field none of them would go on record unless 5 or 10 or 15 years will pass.
That is why you have people with zero medicinal experience pushing for accelerated global use of something they invested money in. It is called return of investment.

The same scientists, organisations, regulators who worked on those vaccines that you arbitrarily trust are working on Covid 19 vaccines that you arbitrarily don't appear to trust

You and me and those experts you mention still do not know if it is effective and have no idea if it is safe.

Exactly, yet some posters here are deciding it's a no-go already.

Define "relatively safe" please. Put some numbers to it. How many dead or disabled people is acceptable to declare something is "relatively safe"?

Nothing is perfectly safe. Water, food, seat-belts, etc, etc. Therefore we use the term relatively.

When it comes to vaccines, that margin of safety has to be very high.

Dionaibh

Jose Substantial Armada wrote: »

Worth noting that these two independent groups, are two of the same coin, Gates (BGF) greatly funds GAVI. The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation pledged $1.6 billion to the (GAVI) the organization, of which it helped to establish two decades ago. Also closely tied to these two groups in various projects are the Rockefellers (loadsamoney, even more than Bill). They are also all tied closely to a powerful MIT Team, that has a great sway of medi-tech software and vaccine device soloutions.

GAVI also held the Global Vaccine Summit recently, hosted by Boris and chums. They've recieved more billions from states and independent wealthy individuals. Perhaps more in the last 6mths that at any time prior, which hasn't registered on some wikipage as of yet. They GAVI also helped found and partner a huge DigitalID program (id2020.org) tied closely to vaccines.

And conveniently MIT declared in March that we would not be going back to normal. And a few months later WHO said it.

https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/03/17/905264/coronavirus-pandemic-social-distancing-18-months/

Almost as if they knew something that the rest of us didn't know.

patnor1011

Bill Gates, the billionaire who founded Microsoft and, along with his wife, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, just called for a complete and utter shutdown and quarantining of the entire American nation, saying the spottiness of some states doing it and some states not has put all in coronavirus jeopardy.

This — from the guy who’s poised to make some cool millions in the market chaos of recent weeks.

This — from the guy who practically controls policy at the World Health Organization.

Link: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/apr/2/bill-gates-and-his-coronavirus-conflicts-of-intere/

And since this is conspiracy theory forum let us throw in some more of interesting reading about Saint Bill which of course will be dismissed as conspiracy theory:

Bill Gates — Most Dangerous Philanthropist in Modern History?

Bill Gates, Big Pharma, Bogus Philanthropy.

Humanitarian Imperialism: Charity for Power.

The Giant Virus in the Room: Corporate Vaccine Makers Need More Pandemics, to Grow

Dionaibh

patnor1011 wrote: »

Bill Gates, the billionaire who founded Microsoft and, along with his wife, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, just called for a complete and utter shutdown and quarantining of the entire American nation, saying the spottiness of some states doing it and some states not has put all in coronavirus jeopardy.

This — from the guy who’s poised to make some cool millions in the market chaos of recent weeks.

This — from the guy who practically controls policy at the World Health Organization.

Link: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/apr/2/bill-gates-and-his-coronavirus-conflicts-of-intere/

And since this is conspiracy theory forum let us throw in some more of interesting reading about Saint Bill which of course will be dismissed as conspiracy theory:

Bill Gates — Most Dangerous Philanthropist in Modern History?

Bill Gates, Big Pharma, Bogus Philanthropy.

Humanitarian Imperialism: Charity for Power.

The Giant Virus in the Room: Corporate Vaccine Makers Need More Pandemics, to Grow

And now he's going on about the UN's Agenda 21:

"The SDGs represent the values that we have for humanity as a whole," Gates said.

"The importance of the goals if anything is reinforced by the pandemic," he said. "After all, the pandemic has in almost every dimension made inequity worse."

Dohnjoe

patnor1011 wrote: »

Bill Gates, the billionaire who founded Microsoft and, along with his wife, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, just called for a complete and utter shutdown and quarantining of the entire American nation, saying the spottiness of some states doing it and some states not has put all in coronavirus jeopardy.

This — from the guy who’s poised to make some cool millions in the market chaos of recent weeks.

This — from the guy who practically controls policy at the World Health Organization.

Link: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/apr/2/bill-gates-and-his-coronavirus-conflicts-of-intere/

And since this is conspiracy theory forum let us throw in some more of interesting reading about Saint Bill which of course will be dismissed as conspiracy theory:

Bill Gates — Most Dangerous Philanthropist in Modern History?

Bill Gates, Big Pharma, Bogus Philanthropy.

Humanitarian Imperialism: Charity for Power.

The Giant Virus in the Room: Corporate Vaccine Makers Need More Pandemics, to Grow

Any conspiracy theorist in here that doesn't loathe Bill Gates?

Dohnjoe

patnor1011 wrote: »

None of them stated that yet. Since they know their field none of them would go on record unless 5 or 10 or 15 years will pass.
That is why you have people with zero medicinal experience pushing for accelerated global use of something they invested money in. It is called return of investment.

There's global pressure to get a vaccine ready because we need it now to address the current pandemic. Hence the "rush". To simplify this further, the people who made vaccines in the past are making this one. They are the same people and the same expertise.

Dionaibh

Dohnjoe wrote: »

There's global pressure to get a vaccine ready because we need it now to address the current pandemic. Hence the "rush". To simplify this further, the people who made vaccines in the past are making this one. They are the same people and the same expertise.

But what I don't understand is why the focus on this virus and not on more dangerous illnesses. Since June more people have died from the flu and pneumonia in the UK than from the virus.

And I actually support vaccines. But I would not like to be forced to take one in order to take part in society. But, as I've said before, I would not hesitate to take the Russian vaccine as I consider it to be extremely safe.

Dionaibh

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Any conspiracy theorist in here that doesn't loathe Bill Gates?

I don't think it's that people loathe him, but rather that they are wary of him. I certainly don't loathe him.

Dohnjoe

Dionaibh wrote: »

But what I don't understand is why the focus on this virus and not on more dangerous illnesses. Since June more people have died from the flu and pneumonia in the UK than from the virus.

And I actually support vaccines. But I would not like to be forced to take one in order to take part in society. But, as I've said before, I would not hesitate to take the Russian vaccine as I consider it to be extremely safe.

I reckon you do understand

4068ac1elhodqr

Dionaibh wrote: »

But what I don't understand is why the focus on this virus and not on more dangerous illnesses. Since June more people have died from the flu and pneumonia in the UK than from the virus.

The panicked rush for this flu's lockdown and emergency use vaccine sure is starting to outweigh the benefits. Some of the stories appearing in recent weeks (mostly from the uk) give some perspective since lockdown (<6mths):

• 322,000 there are now behind in their rents of accomodation.
• 174,000 have 'eviction action' started against them, an eviction ban was also lifted this week.
• 'Dangerous' drinking levels up approx 1/3rd (with 1/2m extra at increased levels, classed:dangerous) from 1.6m to 2.2m
• Domestic violence levels up approx 200%
• Increase of abortions via telemedicine (skype etc) for home use for both stages of early medical abortion (without scans) in response to the COVID-19 pandemic. Est. 200,000per annum E&W. There is a lack of mental or counselling support or in-person consultations, associated with telemedicines.
• Calls to adult helplines with mental issues up around 200%
• Zero deaths(covid) of any healthy children*, and no recommendations (<11) to wear facecoverings, yet many primary schools (<11) proudly enforcing manditory usage of on all pupils on social media.
• Calls to childline also up approx 200%, largest risk to youngsters is now actually self-termination incidents.
• Long-term damage due to isolation/distancing policies (some even regard this as a torture technique)
• Long-term increase in other health issues, e.g. Cancers due to reduced access to services, and outweigh covid (1m global so far) by many multiples.
• Collapse of enterprise activities, 186,000 redundancies since March 23.
• Obese people (1/4 of population) are 200% more likely to succumb to covid, yet lockdowns only increase this trend further, due to panic/comfort eating and sport, outdoor restrictions.

It will be interesting to watch Sweden's once controversial approach, and observing the spread of the most contagious (D614G) mutation, which is also the least dangerous.

Dohnjoe

Jose Substantial Armada wrote: »

The panicked rush for this flu's lockdown and emergency use vaccine sure is starting to outweigh the benefits. Some of the stories appearing in recent weeks (mostly from the uk) give some perspective since lockdown (<6mths):

• 322,000 there are now behind in their rents of accomodation.
• 174,000 have 'eviction action' started against them, an eviction ban was also lifted this week.
• 'Dangerous' drinking levels up approx 1/3rd (with 1/2m extra at increased levels, classed:dangerous) from 1.6m to 2.2m
• Domestic violence levels up approx 200%
• Increase of abortions via telemedicine (skype etc) for home use for both stages of early medical abortion (without scans) in response to the COVID-19 pandemic. Est. 200,000per annum E&W. There is a lack of mental or counselling support or in-person consultations, associated with telemedicines.
• Calls to adult helplines with mental issues up around 200%
• Zero deaths(covid) of any healthy children*, and no recommendations (<11) to wear facecoverings, yet many primary schools (<11) proudly enforcing manditory usage of on all pupils on social media.
• Calls to childline also up approx 200%, largest risk to youngsters is now actually self-termination incidents.
• Long-term damage due to isolation/distancing policies (some even regard this as a torture technique)
• Long-term increase in other health issues, e.g. Cancers due to reduced access to services, and outweigh covid (1m global so far) by many multiples.
• Collapse of enterprise activities, 186,000 redundancies since March 23.
• Obese people (1/4 of population) are 200% more likely to succumb to covid, yet lockdowns only increase this trend further, due to panic/comfort eating and sport, outdoor restrictions.

It will be interesting to watch Sweden's once controversial approach, and observing the spread of the most contagious (D614G) mutation, which is also the least dangerous.

Okay, what's the conspiracy?

r439z5ifwt8soq

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Okay, what's the conspiracy?

Did you not read his important statistic about obese people being driven to comfort eating? :pac:

King Mob

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Okay, what's the conspiracy?

That the evil satanists in power are overblowing the effects of the pandemic to introduce sinister measures that will aid them in eventually marking everyone with a microchip/barcode/tattoo as per the biblical prophesy.

Timberrrrrrrr

King Mob wrote: »

That the evil satanists in power are overblowing the effects of the pandemic to introduce sinister measures that will aid them in eventually marking everyone with a microchip/barcode/tattoo as per the biblical prophesy.

What was the name of this movie again?

King Mob

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

What was the name of this movie again?

"Left Behind" I think.

Sccye

I'm in the odd position of doing ethnographic research on the HPV vaccine, so I've been rattling around a lot of spaces in Dublin and thinking a lot about vaccines. I definitely have my reservations about a hastily produced vaccine being distributed at scale; particularly if measures are brought in to make it mandatory.

But, as with everything, there's nothing that's totally safe or totally effective; the question is whether the ultimate benefits outweigh the risks. But COVID is about more than body counts; it's intensely political, economic and has huge ramifications for health in other ways. I've seen the guidance on masks change twenty times in the last 6 months, from doctors being sacked for wearing masks at the wrong times when it wasn't hospital policy to people claiming they were totally unnecessary, to now 'anti-masker' being a synonym for 'anti-vaxxer'. The issues are about morality and politics that are tangled up in the 'science', which is far from settled or clear. And speaking like that, I sound like some of my participants who are definitely on the sceptical end of the spectrum around vaccines.

It's dicey as balls and I wouldn't blame anyone for being hesitant about getting the shot.

Dohnjoe

Sccye wrote: »

I'm in the odd position of doing ethnographic research on the HPV vaccine, so I've been rattling around a lot of spaces in Dublin and thinking a lot about vaccines. I definitely have my reservations about a hastily produced vaccine being distributed at scale; particularly if measures are brought in to make it mandatory.

But, as with everything, there's nothing that's totally safe or totally effective; the question is whether the ultimate benefits outweigh the risks. But COVID is about more than body counts; it's intensely political, economic and has huge ramifications for health in other ways. I've seen the guidance on masks change twenty times in the last 6 months, from doctors being sacked for wearing masks at the wrong times when it wasn't hospital policy to people claiming they were totally unnecessary, to now 'anti-masker' being a synonym for 'anti-vaxxer'. The issues are about morality and politics that are tangled up in the 'science', which is far from settled or clear. And speaking like that, I sound like some of my participants who are definitely on the sceptical end of the spectrum around vaccines.

It's dicey as balls and I wouldn't blame anyone for being hesitant about getting the shot.

Right. What's the conspiracy?