Rushed Covid 19 vaccine

4068ac1elhodqr

auspicious wrote: »

Will the companies providing said vaccinations stand by and recompense 'victims ' if the vaccines throw-up untoward, irreversible, detrimental effects after administration? That is to say there should be no get out clause with government if the undesirable happens.

Chances are the term 'emergency licencing' cover-all term will kick in, and make any expensive, lenthy cases, many multiple of times more tricky to resolve, than even the Swine Flu vaccine: Pandemrix®

Irish cases (x80) from that are now relying upon support from a uk based charity from these incidents, from a decade prior. https://www.narcolepsy.org.uk/tags/vaccine
https://www.narcolepsy.org.uk/blog/narcolepsy-uk-supporting-irish-pandemrix%C2%AE-victims

SusieBlue

I think there’s no harm in being a bit cautious and I resent being lumped in with conspiracy theorists just because I’d rather not be top of the queue for the vaccine.

When the trials and research ends and the list of potential side effects and their likelihood of developing is released, I’ll make my decision then, as I do with every other medication and vaccine I’ve had.
I’m generally pro vaccinations and the benefits have always far outweighed the risks in regards to the previous ones I’ve gotten.
So for this it will just depend on what they are. I don’t think this is an unreasonable or crackpot position to take.

I’ll most likely wait a year or two and see how others get on before getting it myself. I don’t think the vaccination should be legally mandatory or enforced though, there absolutely should be freedom of choice.

King Mob

patnor1011 wrote: »

Not a lot in NY and not a lot in ireland mainly when obesity is concerned. But I would go out of a limb here saying tha I do not think you are correct lumping "all the old people" with people with underlying conditions. I know a lot of old people who are healthy and also few who had covid and beat it without any problem.

Ok. But the issue I was responding to was the claim that only 6% percent of deaths attributed to Corona virus were actually caused by the virus and that the remaining 94% were actually caused by underlying issues that didn't have anything to do with the virus.
You understand this is not the case

The poster I was responding to was using this incorrect notion to argue that the mortality rate was much lower that experts and organisations claim.

patnor1011 wrote: »

Are all obese people going to die when infected? Absolutely not.

I didn't argue that.

King Mob

SusieBlue wrote: »

I resent being lumped in with conspiracy theorists just because I’d rather not be top of the queue for the vaccine.
.

Then maybe tell the people making wacky conspiracy claims, claiming your support and drowning out your concerns to stop?

Sir Guy who smiles

FutureTeashock wrote: »

The article succinctly explains how these experimental vaccines work. I suggest you take the time to read it (if you can).

The fundamental point is these vaccines are new, experimental, untested, and I won't be taking one.

The article does not describe how the cell's native DNA is modified or scrambled, as you describe it.

I am waiting for you to explain it, since you brought t up.

ranto_boy

If you're under 50 and of reasonable health, you'd have to be mad in the head to rush into what vaccine they pump out. I'll certainly be staying clear of it for a few years at least.

I have no doubt that the powers that be will amp up the social pressure to induce shame and anger directed towards those that don't comply. If you'd told me in April that it wouldn't be unusual to see people scold and abuse others who aren't wearing masks, I wouldn't have believed you. But here we are.

Hoop66

I won't be taking any rushed vaccine.

I trust vaccines when they're properly researched, tested and implemented.

Any vaccine that is rushed out now is almost certainly discarding huge swathes of good practise for political reasons. To make things look good for Mr Trump in the US for instance. Or for Mr Johnson in the UK.

LessOutragePlz

ranto_boy wrote: »

If you're under 50 and of reasonable health, you'd have to be mad in the head to rush into what vaccine they pump out. I'll certainly be staying clear of it for a few years at least.

I have no doubt that the powers that be will amp up the social pressure to induce shame and anger directed towards those that don't comply. If you'd told me in April that it wouldn't be unusual to see people scold and abuse others who aren't wearing masks, I wouldn't have believed you. But here we are.

Yup I feel the same way I'll be in no rush to take any vaccine.

Dionaibh

ranto_boy wrote: »

If you're under 50 and of reasonable health, you'd have to be mad in the head to rush into what vaccine they pump out. I'll certainly be staying clear of it for a few years at least.

I have no doubt that the powers that be will amp up the social pressure to induce shame and anger directed towards those that don't comply. If you'd told me in April that it wouldn't be unusual to see people scold and abuse others who aren't wearing masks, I wouldn't have believed you. But here we are.

And the constant moving of the goalposts is extraordinary. Two week lockdown is now looking like being two years. Flatten the curve is now eliminate the virus. It's unreal.

I would suggest people consider emigrating, if their circumstances allow them to.

Dionaibh

I've never been to Russia, but compare the attitude of the people in the following article with the hysteria in Ireland, the UK, and several other European countries:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/01/world/europe/russia-moscow-coronavirus.html

I hope the article isn't behind a paywall. Just in case, here are a few quotes from it:

"When Nest, a cramped Moscow cocktail lounge, reopened for business in late June after more than two months of lockdown, it offered free masks and antiseptic lotion at the entrance to help calm any fears drinkers might have about sitting just inches from each other around tiny round tables.

It needn’t have bothered.

“Nobody could care less so we quickly stopped offering,” said Roman R. Pometkov, the head bartender and a coronavirus survivor. He became infected soon after the pandemic first hit the Russian capital with full force in March and now, after recuperating in isolation at home for 28 days, is back at work.

Like everyone else in his packed bar on a recent evening, Mr. Pometkov was not wearing a face mask. “Everyone just wants to get back to a normal life,” he said. “Cocktails and masks don’t really go together.”

"Russia’s macho leader, Mr. Putin, while avoiding health hazards like guzzling vodka that have traditionally been seen as marks of manliness in Russia, has outdone even President Trump in shunning the face mask. The only time he has appeared in public with his face covered was in March when he visited a Moscow coronavirus clinic wearing a respirator and a hazmat suit.

Polina Fedotova, a 27-year-old customer at the Nest cocktail bar, said she has many friends in the United States, so is well aware of what she called the “hellish” situation there. While not entirely confident Russia won’t end up in the same place, she has decided that the benefits of having a normal life far outweigh any potential risks."

“It is better to get out and live normally and perhaps even get sick than to stay at home forever doing nothing,” she said.

Ms. Fedotova’s companion for an evening of cocktails was a 28-year-old doctor who works at a large Moscow hospital and who contracted the virus, but barely had any symptoms and has now recovered.

“It was not so bad,” said the doctor, who declined to give her last name. “We are people, not robots, and want to have a life.”

Compare that with the daily hysteria in this part of the world over case numbers. People on boards.ie calling every day for everything to shut down over a rise in case numbers, seemingly oblivious to the fact that increased testing means more cases. While they won't even open pubs in Ireland, and have even gone as far as to disparagingly refer to them as 'wet pubs', people in Russia try to get on with life. Look at the photos of people dancing in that Moscow bar. Unthinkable in Ireland at the moment with these experts deciding what people can do, how they can exist (not live) etc.

Russia also has a vaccine which I believe to be safe and effective and, as I have said, I would not hesitate to take.

I've never been to Russia, and know very little about the country, but I am just trying to compare and contrast the attitude of the people there with the attitude of the vast majority of people in Ireland and the UK.

So I would say that emigration is definitely worth considering.

MOH

patnor1011 wrote: »

I do, I am not sure you understand what a civilised debate is.
All fine and dandy until one side start throwing insults on another one.

I spent time constructing a reasonably detailed post with a link to my source of data. Someone who I now realise is the OP responded to it with a childish tantrum. There's only one side throwing insults.

You are asuming too much. Numbers and data are rather more telling than asumptions.
As of today 950k people died with covid. Undoubtedly some of them died from covid. However, during the same timeframe 36,000,000 people died, roughly 150k of people die every day.

How many other people have died is totally irrelevant. And your number is wrong by just over 7%, so far this year average daily death figure worldwide is roughly 161k. (Not sure why you'd deliberately misrepresent this :rolleyes:)

And your asumptions about 4% mortality rate are straight from science-fiction realm.
Take New York which was one of the most dense places and also one of the most affected yet at the peak of pandemic they managed to get just 1.4% infection fatality rate and 0.28% crude mortality rate.

Your 4% asumption is the same as Imperial college of London model failure.

I've provided numbers and data. There's no assumption here.

patnor1011 wrote: »

Crackpot theory is to divide "resolved cases" by number of deaths disregarding number of tested people and mainly what caused the death.
950k of people died with covid and not from it.

Again, there's no "crackpot theory", or assumption. This is basic mathematics.
Death rate for Covid = number dead / total number of cases (excluding the cases which are still active which may result in either recovery or death).
The number of tested people is irrelevant. It's still irrelevant even when you're trying to deliberately conflate this with the overall mortality rate in a population over a period of time.

As far as the data goes, I haven't done it lately, but before I started using that site as a source I verified the figures they're quoting by spot checking against the deaths due to Covid being reported by some of the national health agencies.

Now, you may have some crackpot theory (your words) that the deaths due to Covid are being deliberately overstated in order to facilitate the ushering in of a new world order or a vaccine that will somehow mind control us all, or whatever. But that conveniently means you don't have any legitimate source of hard figures, so everyone would just have to rely on your say so

ranto_boy

King Mob wrote: »

Then maybe tell the people making wacky conspiracy claims, claiming your support and drowning out your concerns to stop?

I think for me it was something akin to the opposite. Lots of things don't add up and asking questions about the agreed common consensus was increasingly met with snides about being a looney CTer. Well if asking the questions I am, and pointing out some of the stuff that makes no sense and asking why, makes me a CTer... well then I guess I am one?

Dionaibh

ranto_boy wrote: »

I think for me it was something akin to the opposite. Lots of things don't add up and asking questions about the agreed common consensus was increasingly met with snides about being a looney CTer. Well if asking the questions I am, and pointing out some of the stuff that makes no sense and asking why, makes me a CTer... well then I guess I am one?

You're right. None of this makes any sense. We're supposed to believe that the government suddenly cares about saving us all when they've never cared before. WEF just happens to have a "reset" plan ready to go. All of what's going on just happens to be accelerating Agenda 21/2030. World leaders just happen to say "new normal" at the same time. But question any of this and you're a conspiracy loon, apparently.

ThewhiteJesus

ranto_boy wrote: »

I think for me it was something akin to the opposite. Lots of things don't add up and asking questions about the agreed common consensus was increasingly met with snides about being a looney CTer. Well if asking the questions I am, and pointing out some of the stuff that makes no sense and asking why, makes me a CTer... well then I guess I am one?

Some people have limits on how far or how deep they can intellectually consider something like this, so to cover their inability, they shout tin foil hat wearer or a looney ect, when in actual fact, they are just proving everyone elses opinion of them.

Dionaibh

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

Some people have limits on far or how deep they can intellectually consider something like this, so to cover their inability, they shout tin foil hat wearer or a looney ect, when in actual fact, they are just proving everyone elses opinion of them.

I wonder is the possibility that something sinister is happening so frightening to contemplate that people would prefer to mock those who are contemplating such a possibility by calling them loons, tin foil hat wearers etc.

If one stands back and examines what is being called a pandemic, it is very difficult, in my opinion, to justify the continued destruction of the global economy, the destroying of mental health, lives, small businesses etc.

Why the fuss over this virus and not other far more serious illnesses and diseases?

4068ac1elhodqr

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

Some people have limits on far or how deep they can intellectually consider something like this, so to cover their inability, they shout tin foil hat wearer or a looney ect, when in actual fact, they are just proving everyone elses opinion of them.

Agree a certain poster here won't accept there is (or was ever), any slightly credible CTs, in the complete history of mankind, since the dawn of time itself.

This is a bizzare thinking. Each and every time one is presented, they immediately resort to the default (now exposed and tiresome) 'auto-bot' like questions:

e.g. So where is 'the detailed and peer-reviewed evidence {ideally via snopes, as will he will only accept this debatable source}', and also, 'so what's the conspiracy?' right after it has been presented. Truely bizzare. They'll often throw in religion to the debate as an act of misdirection.

Of course there is endless CTs since the begining of time, some valid and others (perhaps most) are not.

Before the recent Panama papers, Weinstien, Epstien, BigPharma opiods scandals etc, etc, there were early unproven theories. That then developed, and the evidence flowed and proof grew over time, to their final conclusions of a then 'proven conspiracy' which as a result led to charges and conclusions.

Bribery and fraud (such as FIFA, L'Armstrong, US College admissions, Ruska Athletics etc) all started as sketchy loose CTs, that developed over time. These incidents are all natural, a small but unfortunate part of the human psyche: human nature. That's life folks.

King Mob

ranto_boy wrote: »

I think for me it was something akin to the opposite. Lots of things don't add up and asking questions about the agreed common consensus was increasingly met with snides about being a looney CTer. Well if asking the questions I am, and pointing out some of the stuff that makes no sense and asking why, makes me a CTer... well then I guess I am one?

Well yea, if you're alleging that there's a big conspiracy based on stuff you read on the internet, then you are a conspiracy theorist by definition.

At the same time, there are people on this thread and forum who are claiming that this pandemic is the catalyst to bring about the mark of the beast from the bible.
Others are claiming that the sinister conspirators have left clues about their plot in a song sung by a children's choir.

Should people not point out that stuff?
Should people not question your information and conclusions?
Is it too offensive and upsetting for some people?

Dionaibh

King Mob wrote: »

Well yea, if you're alleging that there's a big conspiracy based on stuff you read on the internet, then you are a conspiracy theorist by definition.

At the same time, there are people on this thread and forum who are claiming that this pandemic is the catalyst to bring about the mark of the beast from the bible.
Others are claiming that the sinister conspirators have left clues about their plot in a song sung by a children's choir.

Should people not point out that stuff?
Should people not question your information and conclusions?
Is it too offensive and upsetting for some people?

It's good to ask questions, but I think people are often too quick to dismiss things as conspiracy rubbish if they sound outlandish. But I've yet to hear an explanation for "a new world order behind closed doors". All I've heard is "why would they be stupid enough to sing it in a song?", "a loon thinks a new world is coming because of a line in a song" and so on. But why would the UN have a choir sing the words "a new world order behind closed doors"? For a laugh? One poster suggested it could mean "a new world inside", but, in that case, why "new world order" and not "new world"?

But not if the source on the internet is the organisation's site itself. The Great Reset is on WEF's own website. The song containing the lyrics "a new world order behind closed doors" is on the UN's own website.

I just don't understand how people can dismiss out of hand the planet being reset and a global organisation possibly hinting at establishing a new world order.

King Mob

Dionaibh wrote: »

It's good to ask questions, but I think people are often too quick to dismiss things as conspiracy rubbish if they sound outlandish. But I've yet to hear an explanation for "a new world order behind closed doors". All I've heard is "why would they be stupid enough to sing it in a song?", "a loon thinks a new world is coming because of a line in a song" and so on. But why would the UN have a choir sing the words "a new world order behind closed doors"? For a laugh? One poster suggested it could mean "a new world inside", but, in that case, why "new world order" and not "new world"?

But not if the source on the internet is the organisation's site itself. The Great Reset is on WEF's own website. The song containing the lyrics "a new world order behind closed doors" is on the UN's own website.

I just don't understand how people can dismiss out of hand the planet being reset and a global organisation possibly hinting at establishing a new world order.

Again, thank you for demonstrating what I was referring too.

Can we assume that all you guys who "question the vaccine" agree with Dionaibh's claim?

LessOutragePlz

King Mob wrote: »

Again, thank you for demonstrating what I was referring too.

Can we assume that all you guys who "question the vaccine" agree with Dionaibh's claim?

Why do you keep trying to group us all together?

As I've previously said there are perfectly legitimate reasons that people have provided for not wanting to take a rushed vaccine.

Dionaibh's claims or beliefs are his/her own and don't belong to anyone else.

4068ac1elhodqr

Agree with dionaibh, in specifc regards to the sing-song does have a 'Denver Airport' theme about it, i.e. so 'out there' that's it easier to dismiss, as a bit of a laugh.

'The Big Reset' 2021 as named by WEF/Davos/BBergs is 'out there' also.
The WEF website actually praises China's approach to their WuFlu, good job China.

Dionaibh

King Mob wrote: »

Again, thank you for demonstrating what I was referring too.

Can we assume that all you guys who "question the vaccine" agree with Dionaibh's claim?

I'm not questioning the vaccine. I don't want to take one because the risk of the virus to the vast majority of people is low, but if I had to I'd take the Russian one.

I referred to the song to highlight how no explanation has been put forward, save for 'a new world inside', for the UN getting a choir to sing "a new world order behind closed doors".

Similarly, it is, according to some, to be a conspiracy theorist to be concerned the Great Reset, about which a book has been written, and that is being heavily promoted.

Dionaibh

Jose Substantial Armada wrote: »

Agree with dionaibh, in specifc regards to the sing-song does have a 'Denver Airport' theme about it, i.e. so 'out there' that's it easier to dismiss, as a bit of a laugh.

'The Big Reset' 2021 as named by WEF/Davos/BBergs is 'out there' also.
The WEF website actually praises China's approach to their WuFlu, good job China.

And Bill Gates, whom Klaus Schwab thanked for his help with the Great Reset, also thanked the people of Wuhan for their sacrifice. He also referred to the vaccine as the final solution.

King Mob

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

Why do you keep trying to group us all together?

Dionaibh's claims or beliefs are his/her own and don't belong to anyone else.

So you don't agree with them?

Why not?

Kinda seems like you're dismissing them out of hand as "crazy conspiracy nonsense".

How about the talk about "the Great Reset" is that a legitimate concern?
If not, why not?

Dionaibh

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

Why do you keep trying to group us all together?

As I've previously said there are perfectly legitimate reasons that people have provided for not wanting to take a rushed vaccine.

Dionaibh's claims or beliefs are his/her own and don't belong to anyone else.

There are indeed, and you're right when you say that we shouldn't all be lumped together.

Dionaibh

King Mob wrote: »

So you don't agree with them?

Why not?

Kinda seems like you're dismissing them out of hand as "crazy conspiracy nonsense".

How about the talk about "the Great Reset" is that a legitimate concern?
If not, why not?

Do you think talk of wanting to reset the planet and every aspect of human activity over a virus that is harmless to the vast majority of people is a legitimate concern? You've asked other people questions, but I'd be interested to know what you think.

King Mob

Dionaibh wrote: »

Do you think talk of wanting to reset the planet and every aspect of human activity over a virus that is harmless to the vast majority of people is a legitimate concern? You've asked other people questions, but I'd be interested to know what you think.

But I have answered this very directly and clearly before.

No.
Because
1. you aren't accurately representing things.
2. you aren't explaining why you are worried or what you concerns are.
3. you can't provide any soild details about your conspiracy or it's effects or when they will happen.
4. You claim things that are patently untrue.
5. conspiracy theorists have claimed exactly the same stuff many times before and they have been wrong every single time.

Dionaibh

King Mob wrote: »

But I have answered this very directly and clearly before.

No.
Because
1. you aren't accurately representing things.
2. you aren't explaining why you are worried or what you concerns are.
3. you can't provide any soild details about your conspiracy or it's effects or when they will happen.
4. You claim things that are patently untrue.
5. conspiracy theorists have claimed exactly the same stuff many times before and they have been wrong every single time.

Thank you.

To be clear, I am concerned about what WEF has said it is planning to do, namely to reset the planet and every aspect of human activity.

When it will happen, that is when the Great Reset will take place, is in September 2021.

ranto_boy

King Mob wrote: »

Well yea, if you're alleging that there's a big conspiracy based on stuff you read on the internet, then you are a conspiracy theorist by definition.

Well I'm not. A lot of stuff about it and recent events doesn't add up. I question that and the likes of you pop up to dismiss it all and sundry!

King Mob

Dionaibh wrote: »

Thank you.

To be clear, I am concerned about what WEF has said it is planning to do, namely to reset the planet and every aspect of human activity.

When it will happen, that is when the Great Reset will take place, is in September 2021.

And when this doesn't happen?