All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

robinph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117704544#Comment_117704544

Any examples of the extreme conspiracy theories that have come to pass?

mksbart1948

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117704704#Comment_117704704

Yes I did.

'The question you asked is manipulative and asked to make the addressee look silly. However, I agree that you have the right to ask it because it refers to the title of this thread (not created by me) Neither I nor you have a glass ball, so neither can I confirm that the restrictions will be permanent, and you cannot prove that they will not be'

So I did what u asked me before. I admitted that you can't answer that question without looking stupid. Now, instead of doing what you accused me of and asking deflecting questions be a man of your word and tell me what's the goal exactly that we need to reach to scrap mask mandates (mandate is a key word that bothers me, not mask - to be clear), vaccine passports and seasonal lockdowns so they won't become permanent :>

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117704544#Comment_117704544

Ah you are back. Can you address the strange interpretation of figures you had in this post

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117638229#Comment_117638229

Your views generated quite a few unaddressed questions and points, including the below by me:

What "doom and gloom killer" numbers? what "basic rights" have been removed?

Over 4 million people have died in 15 months from a preventable infectious disease, national health services have come close to collapse. According to your personal opinion countries around the world should have done what exactly?

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117704736#Comment_117704736

Ok. So you can't point to any measures that will be permanent. You can't explain why making any measures permanent will benefit anyone behind a conspiracy.

So therefore we can conclude that no measure will be permanent as you admit it makes no sense for any measure to be permanent? Right?

As for your question, Dohnjoe gave you a pretty concise and direct answer that I agree with completely.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117704590#Comment_117704590

There's been a recent rise in hospitalisations, so there's still some concern. The UK has decided to drop nearly all measures, we haven't. That's the decision of the government, we are playing it safer. The more people vaccinated against this the better. Reduce Covid means exactly that, there isn't some magic level, it's just whatever level of hospitalisations, deaths, cases, spread, variants etc that the experts feel comfortable enough with to lift all measures (or gradually).

Vaccine passports are not there to "convince" anyone. It's simply a way to open up things quicker, and make situations with people in close proximity relatively safer. A packed event with vaccinated people is less risky than a packed event with a mix - it's just basic common sense.

If you agree with the above, fine. If you don't agree with the above, then explain what you think is really happening..

mksbart1948

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117704760#Comment_117704760

We need to 'reduce covid' is your answer? Talking about reflection 😂 What does it mean? Do we need to wait till virus cell become smaller? I understand this is some kind of hyperbole, but I can't decypher it, can you tell me what does it mean.

Yeah, I don't understand why someone would want to impose on someone else's rights (and Varadkar admitted himself that this is what lockdowns were exactly). I also do not understand how it can not disturb someone. But I also don't understand how you can be a communist, I don't understand where the drive for totalitarian rule comes from, I don't understand what it is like to be corrupted by power. I do not understand what it is like to be in the top 10 richest people in the world when all the money in the world already belongs to you - I do not understand what can motivate you further and what are your next goals in this situation. I do not understand how it does not raise suspicions on television, which tells you to trust the authorities in 100% and do 100% what it tells you to do because they are so good.

Just because I don't understand it is not proof that the permanent restriction scenario is unrealistic and we can just relax and do what we are told.

You know what I understand as a citizen of a country that has survived two totalitarianisms in the last 80 years and has not existed on maps for 150 years in the last 200 years? That I love freedom above all else and when the authorities tell citizens to call black what is white and white what is black and that we have to give up basic human rights for the sake of security, there is a chance that dark times are coming and we need to be vigilant and watch such authorities. Hope these are just empty worries.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117704910#Comment_117704910

Sorry, you're again deflecting.

I asked you a direct question. Answer it please. I provided you a direct answer. There's no need for these empty ramblings.

You agreed you can't point to any specific measures that will be permanent. You agreed that you can't provide any plausible reason for why any measures will be permanent.

Since this is the case, then we can conclude that no measure will be permanent as such a thing doesn't make any sense.

Do you agree with this or not?

If you dodge again, I will take that as you saying that you agree with this conclusion.

The Nal

Some people dont seem to understand what communism is

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117703774#Comment_117703774

I dont even have to do any of that anymore, fully opened I'm England, but apparently the restrictions are "permanent"

mksbart1948

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117704945#Comment_117704945

You said: If you can't answer this question (and we all know you guys can't) just admit this and then we can deal with your deflection question'

That's what I did. Question can't be answered without looking stupid. I admitted that. So again,  instead of doing what you accused me of and asking deflecting questions be a man of your word and tell me what's the goal exactly that we need to reach to scrap mask mandates, vaccine passports and seasonal lockdowns so they won't become permanent. And please be more exact than 'we need to reduce covid' because that's disrespectful and I'm treating you with respect.

mksbart1948

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117704946#Comment_117704946

I'm sure you understand it better than eastern Europeans that fought that disease for half of a century and oftentimes whose family members were killed, tortured and sent to Siberia by communist regime because your progressive art teacher told you all about it 🤣

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117704910#Comment_117704910

Empty worries. This forum goes back 13 years, read any post and you'll instantly find someone with the same "worry". It's simply paranoia of authority.

The Nal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117705051#Comment_117705051

So are people again being killed, tortured and sent to Siberia? Or Connaught?

mksbart1948

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117705064#Comment_117705064

So you can't say what's the goal is?

robinph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117704852#Comment_117704852

"Vaccine passports are not there to convince anyone" - Not strictly true in some countries. The UK governments only motivation for their ideas on vaccine passports, at least for use internally, is purely for the purposes of trying to convince certain groups that are less well vaccinated to get their jabs. Don't think that it will actually come to pass that you need a vaccine to get into a nightclub as it's just totally unfeasible to implement and the nightclubs will likely refuse to do it. But by having a few "leaks" from government about the idea it will get a few more people that are otherwise sat on the fence out to get their jabs.

I think I've found a conspiracy though, the UK government is "conspiring" with Deliveroo and Uber to give discounts on food and free rides to vaccination centres for young people.

The horror!!! :D

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117705076#Comment_117705076

I replied to your post. I suggest you read it.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117705024#Comment_117705024

But I did answer your question directly and concisely. Dohnjoe explained it to you in a very good summary. I agree with that completely.

You are still dodging mine. You are also contradicting yourself now because your rants and rambling have gotten away from you.

You say that you can't explain which measures are going to be permanent. But then you're also now saying that masks and lockdowns are going to be permanent.

Which is it?

If masks and lockdowns are going to be permanent, what is the benefit for the people behind the conspiracy?

If you are going to fall back to your position that you can't point to any permanent measures and can't explain why any would be permanent, do you then agree that none will since it makes no sense.

You can't whinge about "respect" all you like. If you actually wanted to show respect, answer questions directly without going go rants. No one really cares about your empty waffle when you are demonstrating that there's nothing behind them by running away and deflecting.

Dohnjoe

Should have kept a scorecard on this since the beginning of all these threads, I reckon the last one is in the lead

The Fascists are coming

Satan is behind it

The NWO is about to take over

The Jews are coming

The Elites are taking over

The Communists are coming ✓

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117705084#Comment_117705084

Indeed, I should realise my target audience when writing this stuff (Vaccine passport = 1984 !!!)

323

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117677942#Comment_117677942

But vaccinated workers can also walk in to the same work environment and infect others. These vaccines do not and have not been claimed to prevent a person getting this virus or transmitting it. Have witnessed this myself in the last month. Isolated group a little over 100, friggn PCR test every 3 days, new guys arrive on site(all double jabbed) and started getting positive results returned, jabbed guy included. So is it the vaccine or the PCR tests, personally no faith in either.

Also, couple of french guys on the job mentioned a few weeks ago they're being told they have to get a third jab. Thought it sounded nuts, until hear that Pfizer now pushing for a third jab. (Revenue stream slowing down??) Last week, from the horses mouth, seems their double jab drops in efficiency from a stated 96% to 84% after 6 months, they're saying could be at 50% after 12 months.

So reads like some time shortly after 6 months the double jabbed will be back to where 80% of of the human race were before these vaccines, ie the 80% asymptomatic to begin with.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117705171#Comment_117705171

But you are misrepresenting things.

No one claimed that the vaccines would 100% stop people from being infectious.

The vaccines however will reduce the number of people who are infectious and how infectious they are. You are pretending as if the vaccines are useless. This is a lie.

Do you disagree with this fact?

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117705171#Comment_117705171

Vaccinated workers are less likely to infect than unvaccinated workers. So it's a better solution. We don't have something that 100% stops transmission, so it's the best feasible solution we have.

If a third jab increases protection why does it sound "nuts" to you? what does your personal incredulity have to do with the efficacy of immunization?

Why have you not addressed the other questions I asked in my post? Third time asking. In a previous post you made claims regarding "doom and gloom killer" numbers, and "basic rights" being removed:

What "doom and gloom killer" numbers? what "basic rights" have been removed?

Over 4 million people have died in 15 months from a preventable infectious disease, national health services have come close to collapse. According to your personal opinion countries around the world should have done what exactly?

Dohnjoe

Hundreds of posts and dozens of threads..

No one has demonstrated that vaccines don't work as intended

No credible conspiracy has been presented

No one has demonstrated how any of the facts/figures are grossly wrong

No alternative figures have even been presented

No doomsday predictions have been correct

No one has reasonably explained which measures will be permanent nor why

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117705780#Comment_117705780

Again a perfect demonstration of how empty and meaningless the conspiracy theories are. It's just lazy thinking that people like to dress up as informed brave opinion.

And still, we're gonna keep hearing how "conspiracy theorists were proved right!" and "the vaccines are bad!" and "All measures are going to be permanent!"

PintOfView

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117705024#Comment_117705024

Can I ask you what's your solution to this whole virus thing? Do you think it's just the flu and we don't have to worry about it? Or do you think it might cause serious health issues for a percentage, with some of those resulting in fatalities?

brianhere

Again, I don't mean to repeat myself, but the management of this forum put this thread into this separate 'conspiracy theory' forum. Therefore any questions relating to 'conspiracy theories' ought to be put to said management, and have nothing to do with the writers commenting here. This is about whether or not we are being lied to about these restrictions, that they are not some short term emergency measure but in fact look like becoming permanent and for reasons other than their stated ones. I think people who question their governments instructions like this, are very frequently well informed or are just experienced in politics and know that regularly governments lie to their populace through - in this country - a very compliant media. This is only common sense and does not of itself make one some kind of 'conspiracy theorist'.

I think its also common sense to point out that these measures were introduced in an atmosphere of only 10 days to defeat this virus, then 'two weeks to flatten the curve' etc etc, an atmosphere that is still ongoing one and a half years later. The common sense point is that this timescale itself ought to tell you something, that maybe they are just stringing you along.

Also I don't understand how people can say the restrictions have eased much? Here you cannot enter virtually anywhere as God intended you to be, breathing normally, i.e. without a mask, and up until very recently you couldn't enter a pub or go to a restaurant etc. The government strung the proprietors of these establishments along, with endless talk of just a few more weeks until they could open, until finally they had the vaccine passport system ready to go and now you can only enter with that and further ID and details given etc etc. That is, we have now, clearly, the beginnings of the Chinese communist style social credit system, where what used to be 'inalienable rights' are now only available if you go through various government permission steps etc. The atmosphere in Ireland right now is that they are poised to roll this out further, that businesses will not allow employees on the premises without these passes, or to enter supermarkets, universities etc etc.

Anyway I think people can see that the noose is tightening here, there is no prospect whatsoever of these measures being eased, I would suggest. The writing is on the wall from other countries too, which are increasing state control as well under the latest hypology, the delta variant, and not a few of them, like Israel, with huge vaccination rates. This is the atmosphere in Australia for example:

[QUOTE]"The current situation in Sydney, Australia

by mickr000

Afternoon Reddit folk,

Just need to vent/Rant· Apologies if its TL;DR or a bit Rambly

So the current situation in Sydney, Australia is:

We are Balls deep in Delta strain according to the media, in a city of 6ish million people, we are at our "peak cases" at the moment which is circa 200 each day give or take. Daily testing is l00K tests per day..

We are just entering week **** 6 of Hard lockdown, Cannot go further than 5km, mandatory mask wearing inside, mandatory QR track and trace codes at every place of businesses.

No Domestic or International travel in or out of the country permitted at all.

All Gyms are closed, All retail closed (bar "essential groceries etc") All construction and non essential trades (plumbing, electrical, building etc) ARE NOT ALLOWED TO OPERATE OR FACE FINES.

You can't have any visitors to your household at all, you can't visit anyone regardless of relationship or risk heavy fines and penalties.

As of today the[y] rolled out the AUSTRALIAN DEFENSE FORCE to local areas to "enforce compliance"

pray for the people of Australia reddit, we are so well and truely fucked...

My business is done, gone, caput. but I will be ok.

Many others I feel won't be ok, and the even scarier thing is. there is still more to come.

Hope your all doing better than me, I'm loosing my **** mind."[/QUOTE]

You will have noticed then, I hope, that all this social distancing, masks, vaccines, and the destruction of social life didn't make a blind bit of difference in coping with this exaggerated virus. We can say that because they are going ahead with new lockdowns after the already huge lockdowns and all these other measures that they already took. Do people not feel conned that they are mask wearing and scared of new variants despite vaccines et al, you still believe them? None of that was ever going to help, as many reputable and independent - independent of the all powerful state and pharmaceutical companies that is - scientists have all along being telling us. Mask wearing for example, is often described as using a chain link fence to keep out mosquitos, so of course it was pointless and useless, if you believe it was for anti-viral protection that is.

If it was social control, that is getting the populace to feel comfortable just abiding by government/media regulations and instructions as opposed to acting like citizens of a democratic country and questioning - and at times not abiding by - their governments instructions, laws and regulations, then it has been a great success. From the PTB point of view it must be wonderful to see all this visible compliance.

So yes, that is why they are doing what they are doing, it is social control, these measures make it easier for crooked governments to control their populace, and its working spectacularly well. Yes that is similar to Communism, and why not? Why is it that some here react in much the same way as saying that Ireland is run by aliens or walking talking lizards, when you raise the prospect of Communism? Communism exists you know, it a huge and gigantically powerful worldwide movement, for example arguable the most powerful country in the world, economically anyway, China, is a Communist country. Many key decision makers like the head of the WHO, or one of the key figures in SAGE in the UK, as pointed out earlier, are Communists. Huge swathes of the world, at least half of Europe for example, were in the throes of that until very recently, why would anybody assume that we here in Ireland now are immune to the possibility? And no, surprising enough, I cannot give you the minutes of the last meeting of these controllers, or some other daft level of evidence that some here think is possible. Rather 'by the fruits you shall know them', you ought to be able to see the way Ireland is moving is very similar to the doctrines of Communism and the controlled way that those governments dominate their populace.

Also you can take one issue in microcosm. One area that always excites Communists, is religion and the Catholic Church in particular. Even in modern day China its stunning how much they focus in on rooting out or oppressing religion in the countries they seek to dominate. (Because they want you body and soul, they want your complete mind, they want the State to tell you what is right and wrong and religion can interfere with that.) Now observe the way that the state in Ireland actually dominates the media, a lot of people in this country didn't understand how much that was true until now, but now I am sure many see how the Irish deep state/media operate in lockstep on serious issues (they are very happy to hype up silly insignificant issues to disguise this close relationship though). Now that you can see that, ask yourself whether or not the current generation of Irish people have been subjected to endless anti-Catholic media hype over the last few decades? I would say its been remorseless, and in fact, generally, completely over hyped or made up or at least unjustified. So can see from that the influence of Communism in our state and media, who else would be so interested in this huge slander? Now look at the lockdown and the Church, its just incredible how much these measures have the destruction of Church activities in their crosshairs, and, again, totally unjustifiably so. Hence, again, 'by the fruits you shall know them'?

So thats where its at, but I guess this thread will still be going two or three years from now as the media hype up the latest variant which justifies another round of ever so coincidental state domination and control!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117707583#Comment_117707583

An amazing post.

It didn't occur to me that the delay in reopening the pubs was to allow the vaccine passport system to be completed.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117707583#Comment_117707583

You literally believe Ireland is about to turn Communist. You've written a (batshiat insane) manifesto blog post about this, yes I skimmed through it. It's full on tin-foil cliched conspiracy stuff.

All that aside, which measures will be permanent in Ireland and why?

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117707583#Comment_117707583

Yup. Empty ranting without any substance.

What measures do you believe are going to be permanent?

What lies do you believe are being told and specifically why are we being told them?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117707689#Comment_117707689

But you have agreed that the vaccine passports aren't going to be permanent because you've admitted that you can't explain why they would be permanent.

Why are you changing your mind now? Why are you still ignoring questions to praise this empty rambling?

PintOfView

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117707583#Comment_117707583

You know the way you can take the facts on the ground, and mould a theory around them, and fill in all the blanks with stuff you think is likely!

With your way of thinking, where you extrapolate and imagine the bits that you can't see, how would you know the difference between a fake pandemic and a real one? Are you aware of how many real pandemics there have been over the centuries - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandemic

Do you think the US faked 400,000 excess deaths in 2020? or Brazil is faking large numbers of excess deaths? If they are not faking the numbers then what are people dying of? And what makes you think that if we did what you seem to want (open up everything and act like there is no virus) that we wouldn't have the same results?

What makes you think you're right, and everyone else who is fighting this virus is wrong?