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All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,232 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Cool. Link to these numbers and explain how you got them.

    Don't just avoid this. By avoiding it, you're admitting it's not actually true.



  • Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭grofus2


    Well, I'm not going to, so it can't be true. An interesting concept though, given that, its exactly what mainstream media have been doing. Ignoring truths, banning, discrediting and threatening anyone that dares to question the official narratives. Kind of action one would expect from totalitarian dictatorships.

    Your government has taken your rights, your liberty and your very being and kicked into the gutter over a bad case of flu for the last 16 months.

    Now WHY? is salient question but you choose, instead to challenge me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,232 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Ok. You can't back up you claim. You're admitting it's not actually true. Great.

    Why should anyone take the rest of your silly hyperbolic rant seriously when it's all predicated on a factoid that at best you can't support or at worst is a outright lie.

    Also maybe you could do what conspiracy theorists haven't been able to for the last nearly 200 posts?

    Can you explain which measures are going to be permanent? Why will they be permanent? How do they benefit the people behind the conspiracy you believe exists?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,291 ✭✭✭meep


    2000 deaths in the US in the last week, within 7 days of vaccination.?

    in 2019, the US had an average of 54,000 deaths per week, within 7 days of not being vaccinated. What’s the point here? Some people who get vaccinated will die from unrelated causes. Where are these 2k deaths attributed to vaccination?

    Indeed, the US sees 3327 deaths on average per week from accidents alone, maybe these people are getting hit by a bus as they leave the vaccination centers?

    Source: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,232 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Also remember that conspiracy theorists throughout this thread have been dismissing the 4.1 million deaths from covid as insignificant and not worth worrying over.

    Yet somehow 2000 deaths (which grofus has admitted can't be shown to be due to the vaccine) are evidence of a global conspiracy to kill us all?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭grofus2


    I can back it up. You assume I can't because I won't waste my time doing so. All the while, you conveniently ignore my question.

    I'll just crawl back under my rock, goodnight



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,232 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    If you can back it up, do so.

    This pretending that you are too good to back up your claim is simply not going to work. No one is going to believe this. No one is that stupid.

    You can't provide the evidence you claim to have, because your claim isn't true.

    If this isn't the case, provide your evidence.

    If you are going to continue to refuse to do this, then we can all assume that this is you admitting that you can't do it.

    You could also just admit this, but experience with conspiracy theorists tells me that you aren't going to do this.


    And again, it's a bit bizarre to whinge about me not answering your silly vague question while at the same time declaring that you're not going to answer my direct one. And also again, all while we're nearing page 200 of conspiracy theorists ignoring the same central question.



  • Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭grofus2


    OK, King nob challenged me so, despite my bed calling, here is the data from EudraVigilance site.

    It relates only to the Pfizer vaccine administered in the EU and is upto date as of 17 July 21

    Total deaths from Tozinameran (Pfizer-BioNTech) 7709

    The data is broken down by cause as follows

    Cardiac disorder 1271

    Gastrointestinal 403

    Nervous system 958

    Respiratory 1057

    Infections & infestation 886


    It goes on to cover further categories to long to list here, but total is 7709 just for Pfizer-BioNTech in Europe

    Deaths for all four vaccines used in the EU to 17 July 21 total 17,503.

    These numbers are truly shocking. You check them out yourself here


    https://www.adrreports.eu/en/search_subst.html# click on C for covid and scroll down for the data set link.

    Do your own research. Why haven't you heard this on the "news"

    Consider this, the swine flu vaccine was pulled after 50 deaths. Conspiracy my backside, cover up more like



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,232 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    So did you not read all of that website?

    Particularly the very large, very clear, very prominent disclaimers it has?

    https://www.adrreports.eu/en/understanding_reports.html

    When you view a web report of suspected side effects (also known as suspected adverse drug reactions) for a medicine or active substance, it is important to understand how the web report fits into the overall safety profile of a medicine.

    Here is a list of important points to consider when viewing a web report:


    ...

    The information on this website relates to suspected side effects, in other words, effects that have been observed following administration of, or treatment with, a medicine. However, these suspected side effects may not be related to or caused by the medicine.


    ...

    A case can be reported on the basis of a suspicion that the side effect is associated with the medicine. It does not necessarily mean that any link between the medicine and the side effect has been established; the side effect may have occurred due to other factors, for example the disease for which the medicine is being taken or an interaction between two or more of the patient's medicines.


    ...

    The information on this website cannot be used to determine the likelihood of experiencing a side effect. Other information, such as how many people take the medicine and how long it has been on the market, need to be considered.


    Also this page that specifically comments on conspiracy theorists and anti vaxxers looking for stuff to support their claims:

    https://www.adrreports.eu/en/covid19_message.html

    The information on this website relates to suspected side effects, i.e. medical events that have been observed following the administration of the COVID-19 vaccines, but which are not necessarily related to or caused by the vaccine. These events may have been caused by another illness or be associated with another medicine taken by the patient at the same time.

    So why are you claiming that this site says that the vaccine killed 7000 people?

    The site itself specifically states that it's not saying that.

    Why lie?



  • Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭grofus2


    Thousands more permanently injured ranging from blindness, paralysed or constant tremors.

    What has been perpetrated is utterly disgusting and the culprits need to swing from rope. Oryou could just pretend it hasn't happened.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,232 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    But is the evidence for these side effects the same as your lie about the evidence you had to support the number of deaths?

    Remember also, that covid has killed 4.1 million people and left many with permanent injuries also. Why do you dismiss those numbers?


    Is it not disgusting to lie and promote misinformation during a pandemic?



  • Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭grofus2


    It is listed under the primary heading of adverse reactions from Tozinameran, how is it a lie.

    Put your head back 8n the sand chap, it'll be grand



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,232 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Why are you ignoring my other post where I show that you are lying about your source for the side effects of the vaccines?

    Like with the deaths, the adverse reaction reports cannot be solely used to link vaccines to specific side effects or make judgements about how often they occur. You have claimed that thousands of people will be permanently harmed by Tozinmeran. The adverse reaction reports cannot support that claim. Hence you are lying.

    Why do you have to lie to support your conspiracy theory?

    How is ignoring my posts and other questions different from "putting your head in the sand?"



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,486 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Ugh, just seen join date/Post count....I really should check this more before I engage.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,092 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    That is just a much nicer laid out format of the data that has been posted multiple times like the reports from the UK regarding post vaccine health conditions. That you are using those stats to claim the vaccine is killing people in their thousands just proves that you don't understand what you are looking at.


    The UK reports include cases of people taking up smoking, getting sunburn, breaking limbs and even becoming pregnant post vaccine. None of those things are claimed as being side effects of the vaccine, those reports are purely just for statistical analysis by people that understand it to look for unusual trends in the data.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,848 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Source for this?

    Because it sounds like you are regurgitating anti-vax disinfo




  • Registered Users Posts: 17,848 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Did you read your own link?

    Adrreports.eu

    "The information on this website relates to suspected side effects , i.e. medical events that have been observed following the use of a medicine, but which are not necessarily related to or caused by the medicine.

    Information on suspected side effects should not be interpreted as meaning that the medicine or the active substance causes the observed effect or is unsafe to use. Only a detailed evaluation and scientific assessment of all available data allows for robust conclusions to be drawn on the benefits and risks of a medicine.

    The European Medicines Agency publishes these data so that its stakeholders, including the general public, can access information that European regulatory authorities use to review the safety of a medicine or active substance. Transparency is a key guiding principle of the Agency."






  • Registered Users Posts: 12,662 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    They clearly didnt read their own link even after "doing their research". (cringe)



  • Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭grofus2


    I've not actually seen that, but do find it laughable that the BBC is used as a reliable source of info. The same BBC thT viewers are leaving in droves by not paying licence fees. The same BBC that has received 100's k of funding from The Gates Foundation. You couldn't have made my point any better.

    Thank you



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,453 ✭✭✭EyesClosed


    So the BBC are involved in a conspiracy? What is it? What is going to be permanent and why?

    Also how do the permanent measures which the BBC are some how involved in line up with yesterday's freedom day in England?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,848 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,092 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    No. That would be an entirely separate charitable organisation which the Gates Foundation has provided funding for. A whole two seconds of searching on Google would have told you that:

    And a further bit of reading on their actual website would have told you about their charitable status and that it is not in anyway the BBC TV company of news organisation that it funded by entirely separate means:




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,137 ✭✭✭323



    "It only makes sense that fully vaccinated people can pass through borders (or go to e.g. large events)." Why? back at you

    Don't think any of this makes any sense, period. None of these vaccines claim to prevent infection or re-transmission. (I've personally seen over a dozen twice vaccinated people return positive PCR tests results in the last two weeks alone). Correct me if I'm wrong, I believe the main marketing sell is to reduce potential hospitalisation of those exposed.

    Safe to say, I've probably received more vaccination shots than over 99% of those my age group, 50's, never been an issue. So find the current goings on very worrying, like something from the inquisition, anyone daring to question the one true narrative is instantly labelled anti-vaxx, conspiracy theorist.

    “Follow the trend lines, not the headlines,”



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,848 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe



    Vaccines reduce the severity, viral load and transmission - often quite significantly. People are still going to get Covid, but it's effects are drastically reduced among the vaccinated, meaning they don't have to take hospital beds, meaning there is significantly less chance they die, also meaning the chance they infect others is halved.

    Thanks but the conspiracy victim card isn't needed, what genuine questions do you have? what is the "one true narrative"? there has been huge debate between experts, scientists, medical professionals, politicians, so what does that even mean?



  • Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭grofus2


    Oh really, perhaps the inventor of the technology might hold some credibility here

    mobile.twitter.com/RWMaloneMD

    And there has been no debate between those imposing restrictions and pushing vaccines and those with expert medical knowledge. Plenty of censorship and discrediting though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,848 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Okay. Care to address the question I asked, which part of the article is incorrect?



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,232 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Hi, Sorry. You seem to have missed my posts entirely.

    I showed that you were lying about the evidence you claimed to have.

    Do you not have a response to this? Why are you ignoring it?

    You understand that everyone else saw my post and by refusing to address or even acknowledge it, you're kind of killing your own credibility, right?

    Why do you think ignoring my post and other points and questions is helping you?



  • Registered Users Posts: 857 ✭✭✭PintOfView


    Have a read of the Pfizer vaccine trial report here https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7745181/ and see if it makes sense.

    Quick summary, 40,000 people in the trial, 20,000 given the vaccine, 20,000 given the placebo, all told to go home and live as they have been.

    At the end of 100 days the following were the results 162 of the Placebo people got Covid (9 severe) vs 9 of the vaccinated (1 severe)

    Can you not see from this that the vaccine does improve the situation (8 vs 162 getting symtomatic covid, 1 severe vs 9 severe)?

    From the trial you can see that it's not a magic bullet, but does prevent a lot of severe covid. How can you say getting severe covid is better than gettting the vaccine?

    And by the way, 6 of the 40,000 people died during the trial, 4 of the placebo takers, and 2 of the vaccinated!!! Do you conclude from that that the vaccine causes people to die?



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,662 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    All the nutters have gone quiet havent they? Theres a palpable sense of regret everywhere at the moment. Their little predictions have been proven to be total nonsense. Theyve been had.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,137 ✭✭✭323


    No "The Nal", not gone away. Working abroad atm, so between 15/16 hours a day work and very limited bandwidth, only have a look in here occasionally as a distraction. Insufficient bandwidth to see that report, so thanks "PintOfView" for the summary.

    First, I'm in no way belittlement this issue, had to get a guy on current project home to asia last week who's wife was reported very ill with Covid. Hear this morning she passed away, poor guy is stuck in a hotel quarantine for the next week, very tragic and shocking.

    "Do you conclude from that that the vaccine causes people to die?" Said nothing of the sort, you might be mistaking me for someone else.

    So, according to Pfizer, of 20000 on their placebo

    0.81% showed symptoms (162): 0.045% had severe symptoms (9), 0.02% died (4) : Or to put it another way, a lower risk of dying from Covid than from a road accident, for a US citizen in a given year.

    Versus, 20000 on their trial vaccine

    0.04% showed symptoms (8): 0.005% had severe symptoms (1), 0.01% died (2) : A similar risk of dying from Covid to that of dying in a road accident for a UK citizen in a given year.

    Those numbers by Pfizer's for their placebo subjects are much better than I expected. Nothing like the doom and gloom killer numbers being touted to justify the removal of many of our basic human rights. Some of those that back to the first democracy in Greece, all for something that is 20 to 40 (depending where you live) less likely to kill us than driving to work.

    Also, curious as to why did 2 people with the vaccine die if only 1 had severe Covid? Will read that report when can get get a chance.

    “Follow the trend lines, not the headlines,”



This discussion has been closed.
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