All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

PintOfView

Himnydownunder wrote: »

Hasn’t that been the case till now in Ireland? Open, numbers go up, lockdown again. Rinse, repeat.

And why do you think we locked down when numbers went up?
What do you think would have happened if we didn't lockdown?

And now that a lot of the population has been vaccinated,
do you think that will have no effect?

Himnydownunder

PintOfView wrote: »

And why do you think we locked down when numbers went up?
What do you think would have happened if we didn't lockdown?

And now that a lot of the population has been vaccinated,
do you think that will have no effect?

I don’t think the vaccines will prevent at least one more lockdown. As I said already the government are very worried about Covid numbers in a month like February, there’s no way they would reopen in February with 469 cases, like we had today. But for the summer/ Christmas they are happy to allow some sort of reopening, regardless of the number of Covid cases.

runawaybishop

Himnydownunder wrote: »

I don’t think the vaccines will prevent at least one more lockdown. As I said already the government are very worried about Covid numbers in a month like February, there’s no way they would reopen in February with 469 cases, like we had today. But for the summer/ Christmas they are happy to allow some sort of reopening, regardless of the number of Covid cases.

Barely anyone was vaccinated in Feb, we are at over 2 mill vaccines now, by the end of June they are still shooting for 80%. Its completely different.

Car99

Covid is on the run , the vaccine is winning .

Himnydownunder

runawaybishop wrote: »

Barely anyone was vaccinated in Feb, we are at over 2 mill vaccines now, by the end of June they are still shooting for 80%. Its completely different.

I appreciate your point. But 80% vaccinated by the end of June, surely even you don’t really believe that?

Himnydownunder

Car99 wrote: »

Covid is on the run , the vaccine is winning .

Okay Leo.;-)

runawaybishop

Himnydownunder wrote: »

I appreciate your point. But 80% vaccinated by the end of June, surely even you don’t really believe that?

Not really, they have missed most of their targets already, but I think it wont be a million miles away.

PintOfView

Himnydownunder wrote: »

I don’t think the vaccines will prevent at least one more lockdown. As I said already the government are very worried about Covid numbers in a month like February, there’s no way they would reopen in February with 469 cases, like we had today. But for the summer/ Christmas they are happy to allow some sort of reopening, regardless of the number of Covid cases.

You're looking at part of the picture and then putting an interpretation on it,
but you're not taking everything into account.

As runawaybishop says, we have a large percentage of the population vaccinated now,
do you not see that will prevent most of the deaths,
and the high need for hospital treatment, which are the main problems?

Himnydownunder

runawaybishop wrote: »

Not really, they have missed most of their targets already, but I think it wont be a million miles away.

The 80% target assumes that everybody will want the vaccine. With any vaccine you won’t get 100% compliance. Also, it’s the H.S.E. running the show, the latest hacking incident will surely set them back.

Himnydownunder

PintOfView wrote: »

You're looking at part of the picture and then putting an interpretation on it,
but you're not taking everything into account.

As runawaybishop says, we have a large percentage of the population vaccinated now,
do you not see that will prevent most of the deaths,
and the high need for hospital treatment, which are the main problems?

I doubt that enough people will have been vaccinated at the end of August even, to eliminate the threat of Covid. It’s Ireland not Israel that we are talking about.

GT89

Dohnjoe wrote: »

So, you believe that governments all over the world are not trying to reduce the pandemic with these measures, instead it's all some ruse to "take our freedoms away" only to reinstate them later

Why?

Because time after time we see government bringing in temporary measures only to continue them indefinitely case in point the universal social charge.

Our freedoms haven't been reinstated they have not given us our freedoms back yet. The fight will continue until we have freedoms we had in 2019 back and if they give them back the fight must still continue until the people and organisations who took away our freedoms under the guise of covid are brought to justice.

runawaybishop

Himnydownunder wrote: »

The 80% target assumes that everybody will want the vaccine. With any vaccine you won’t get 100% compliance. Also, it’s the H.S.E. running the show, the latest hacking incident will surely set them back.

I believe it was 80% of those who want a vaccine will have one, i don't think we have a large percentage of people that will refuse one anyway, compared to France/Germany for example.

HSE may have their faults, but they have a proven track record when it comes to vaccines. They do a massive amount of flu vaccines in a couple of months and last time i checked were doing 40k covid vaccines a day, and that isn't even them running at capacity.

Fighting Tao

GT89 wrote: »

Because time after time we see government bringing in temporary measures only to continue them indefinitely case in point the universal social charge.

Our freedoms haven't been reinstated they have not given us our freedoms back yet. The fight will continue until we have freedoms we had in 2019 back and if they give them back the fight must still continue until the people and organisations who took away our freedoms under the guise of covid are brought to justice.

What is the definition of freedom you work of?

runawaybishop

GT89 wrote: »

Because time after time we see government bringing in temporary measures only to continue them indefinitely case in point the universal social charge.

Our freedoms haven't been reinstated they have not given us our freedoms back yet. The fight will continue until we have freedoms we had in 2019 back and if they give them back the fight must still continue until the people and organisations who took away our freedoms under the guise of covid are brought to justice.

:rolleyes:

Your freedoms end where other peoples freedoms begin.

GT89

PintOfView wrote: »

You're looking at part of the picture and then putting an interpretation on it,
but you're not taking everything into account.

As runawaybishop says, we have a large percentage of the population vaccinated now,
do you not see that will prevent most of the deaths,
and the high need for hospital treatment, which are the main problems?

If that's the case why not give us back our freedoms now then. The threat of covid to the healthcare system is now minimal as the majority of people who were at risk of requiring hospital treatment because of covid are now all vaccinated but yet we still continue to have restrictions.

PintOfView

Himnydownunder wrote: »

I doubt that enough people will have been vaccinated at the end of August even, to eliminate the threat of Covid. It’s Ireland not Israel that we are talking about.

But you don't need 100% of people to be vaccinated for it to be effective.
For herd immunity you seem to need 70 - 80%

However even at levels lower than that, the virus may still transmit,
but if the majority of the vulnerable are vaccinated then the threat of deaths, and
of overwhelming the hospitals, will be greatly reduced.

How does that not change the picture entirely?

GT89

runawaybishop wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Your freedoms end where other peoples freedoms begin.

Utter tosh. My freedoms do not impinge on anyone else's. If others feel like they are at high risk from covid they have the freedom to stay in their homes if not they should stop bitching and accept the risk.

GT89

PintOfView wrote: »

But you don't need 100% of people to be vaccinated for it to be effective.
For herd immunity you seem to need 70 - 80%

However even at levels lower than that, the virus may still transmit,
but if the majority of the vulnerable are vaccinated then the threat of deaths, and
of overwhelming the hospitals, will be greatly reduced.

How does that not change the picture entirely?

The health system is no longer at risk of being overwhelmed but yet we continue to have restrictions.

runawaybishop

GT89 wrote: »

Utter tosh. My freedoms do not impinge on anyone else's. If others feel like they are at high risk from covid they have the freedom to stay in their homes if not they should stop bitching and accept the risk.

Yeah, that's not how a decent society works. You don't get to run around with an infectious disease and swamp health facilities. I get that you don't care about anyone but yourself, but the rest of society have decided to take that decision out of your hands and if you don't like it, then leave the society.

runawaybishop

GT89 wrote: »

The health system is no longer at risk of being overwhelmed but yet we continue to have restrictions.

We are lifting restrictions, slowly, to ensure we don't have to bring any back in. If we went with your 'idea' and lifted them back in March we'd be right back where we started.

PintOfView

GT89 wrote: »

If that's the case why not give us back our freedoms now then. The threat of covid to the healthcare system is now minimal as the majority of people who were at risk of requiring hospital treatment because of covid are now all vaccinated but yet we still continue to have restrictions.

But restrictions are lifting. The people who make the decisions have much
more information that you or me, and their judgement is to open up slowly.

This make sense to me, as it avoids spreading the virus widely while we are
still vaccinating everyone.

Himnydownunder

PintOfView wrote: »

But you don't need 100% of people to be vaccinated for it to be effective.
For herd immunity you seem to need 70 - 80%

However even at levels lower than that, the virus may still transmit,
but if the majority of the vulnerable are vaccinated then the threat of deaths, and
of overwhelming the hospitals, will be greatly reduced.

How does that not change the picture entirely?

It only takes a new strain of the virus to undo all the progress. So you are saying we need over 3.1 people vaccinated for herd immunity? or at least a mixture of 3.1 million people who have either had the virus or been vaccinated in order to have herd immunity? I can’t see that number being reached by the end of August.

Timberrrrrrrr

GT89 wrote: »

Utter tosh. My freedoms do not impinge on anyone else's. If others feel like they are at high risk from covid they have the freedom to stay in their homes if not they should stop bitching and accept the risk.

I should be free to drive drunk at a hundred miles an hour, If others feel like they are at high risk from my driving they have the freedom to stay in their homes if not they should stop bitching and accept the risk.

runawaybishop

Himnydownunder wrote: »

It only takes a new strain of the virus to undo all the progress. So you are saying we need over 3.1 people vaccinated for heard immunity? or at least a mixture of 3.1 million people who have either had the virus or been vaccinated in order to have heard immunity? I can’t see that number being reached by the end of August.

1,922,913 were given at least a first dose as of 8 days ago, add another 750k to that by the end of this month. We are still heavily giving out first doses (which offer the majority of the protection) so June should easily see another 1 million doses. That's based on current vaccination numbers too, which are supposed to rise as we go on.

Car99

Himnydownunder wrote: »

Okay Leo.;-)

I have some classified files if you want to see for yourself shhhh.

GT89

runawaybishop wrote: »

Yeah, that's not how a decent society works. You don't get to run around with an infectious disease and swamp health facilities. I get that you don't care about anyone but yourself, but the rest of society have decided to take that decision out of your hands and if you don't like it, then leave the society.

And you assume everyone is with you up on your moral high ground. Reminder that Florida has had no statewide covid restrictions since last September but hospitals there were never overwhelmed, swamped or whatever over dramatised term you like to use much to the disgust of Democrats btw.

GT89

PintOfView wrote: »

But restrictions are lifting. The people who make the decisions have much
more information that you or me, and their judgement is to open up slowly.

This make sense to me, as it avoids spreading the virus widely while we are
still vaccinating everyone.

Florida and Texas think differently

Himnydownunder

Car99 wrote: »

I have some classified files if you want to see for yourself shhhh.

It would be nice to see the classified files on how the vaccine is beating the virus

GT89

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I should be free to drive drunk at a hundred miles an hour, If others feel like they are at high risk from my driving they have the freedom to stay in their homes if not they should stop bitching and accept the risk.

So all the US states that have lifted restrictions are basically allowing the equivalent of drink driving at high speeds.

PintOfView

Himnydownunder wrote: »

It only takes a new strain of the virus to undo all the progress. So you are saying we need over 3.1 people vaccinated for heard immunity? or at least a mixture of 3.1 million people who have either had the virus or been vaccinated in order to have heard immunity? I can’t see that number being reached by the end of August.

If a new strain of the virus comes along that the vaccine doesn't protect against
then we'll have to deal with that if it happens.

However so far this doesn't seem to be the case, so things are still looking optimistic.

Re needing to vaccinate 3.1m, we have just under 2m vaccinated with first dose already,
why do you think we won't have 3.1m done by end of August?
(may take longer for 3.1 m to have had the second dose, but even one dose confers a lot of protection)