Is it time for a Dublin lockdown?

Jackman25

Strumms wrote: »

I tend to agree.

In order for restrictions to work and be effective, there has to be a deterrent to breaking them.

There isn’t, no pub has been closed down, no organization has been sanctioned for organizing marches and encouraging the disregard for social distancing.

The tone was set by that absolute slow out of the blocks corporate gimp fûckwit Varadkar, the chinless muppet is off hiding behind Martin now as part of a damage limitation strategy.

The right tone needed to be set from minute one. It wasn’t and proved the overriding catalyst for the ensuing trouble, illness and deaths ... then he hid, absolute cretin, coming out for his hospital photo ops... fûck off Leo, joke of a human being and even worse leader / public ‘servant’.. right.

Will you ever calm down.
Every post a tirade of expletive-laden hate-filled, furious bile. If you're that terrified, lock yourself down.

Tenzor07

A City wide lockdown just won't work, will do more harm than good...

"Wider lockdown is probably too blunt an instrument at this point," he said.

Mr Hughes noted that Dublin lost 35,000 jobs during the March-May lockdown period, and only some of them have returned to the capital.

"Any significant second lockdown would mean you'll see a hit to employment running into several thousand. It would have a knock-on impact on the rest of the economy."

Davy chief economist Conall Mac Coille agreed that a Dublin lockdown "could have a much more severe economic impact than the lockdowns we've seen in other counties".

Graham

Strumms wrote: »

In order for restrictions to work and be effective, there has to be a deterrent to breaking them.

There isn’t, no pub has been closed down

Gardai objected to the renewal of a license for a pub in Achill yesterday for ongoing breaches’ of Covid-19 legislation.

That said, a few high-profile cases to demonstrate enforcement in all areas wouldn't go amiss.

yourdeadwright

Honest question what's the point of another Lockdown down ?
,
Surely we have seen lockdown works but as soon as its lifted cases rise again ,

There is no point of lockdown unless there willing to do it until a vaccine is available ,

Tenzor07

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Honest question what's the point of another Lockdown down ?Surely we have seen lockdown works but as soon as its lifted cases rise again , There is no point of lockdown unless there willing to do it until a vaccine is available ,

McConkey wants to shut down the pubs in areas registering high positive tests.... I mean... seriously..!
Shut down a pub in say Donnybrook and you can go to Sandymount and have a drink there instead?


https://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-pubs-sma-mcconkey-covid-cases-5201826-Sep2020/

lucernarian

Tenzor07 wrote: »

McConkey wants to shut down the pubs in areas registering high positive tests.... I mean... seriously..!
Shut down a pub in say Donnybrook and you can go to Sandymount and have a drink there instead?


https://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-pubs-sma-mcconkey-covid-cases-5201826-Sep2020/

Sandymount as in the beach? Or a pub in that area? Tbh they'd be better off allowing more accessible outdoor areas for drinking, even non-spirits allowed in parks if needs be. Now we know the spread is outdoors appears to be minimal except where concerts and gigs are concerned. But that boat is sailing given the time of year.

Hurrache

Tenzor07 wrote: »

McConkey wants to shut down the pubs in areas registering high positive tests.... I mean... seriously..!
Shut down a pub in say Donnybrook and you can go to Sandymount and have a drink there instead?


https://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-pubs-sma-mcconkey-covid-cases-5201826-Sep2020/

Yeah, it's unworkable, all it will do is move people from within the areas they're worried about out of those areas and into neighbouring ones, and on and on and on.

Happydays2020

Tenzor07 wrote: »

McConkey wants to shut down the pubs in areas registering high positive tests.... I mean... seriously..!
Shut down a pub in say Donnybrook and you can go to Sandymount and have a drink there instead?


https://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-pubs-sma-mcconkey-covid-cases-5201826-Sep2020/

I have noted that people within the medical profession are calling out some of these mad proposals for what they are. There is an academic world and there is the real world.

Tenzor07

lucernarian wrote: »

Sandymount as in the beach? Or a pub in that area? Tbh they'd be better off allowing more accessible outdoor areas for drinking, even non-spirits allowed in parks if needs be. Now we know the spread is outdoors appears to be minimal except where concerts and gigs are concerned. But that boat is sailing given the time of year.

Was just a for instance example, McConkey coming out with more daft lockdown ideas he probably came up with while on the Loo....
Closing pubs and business in one area and not another, we've seen this in the UK where you could have two pubs 50m apart, one is in lockdown the other isn't..

Outdoor drinking in Dublin has many things against it.. Space, Weather, Security, local residents objections....

Tenzor07

Happydays2020 wrote: »

I have noted that people within the medical profession are calling out some of these mad proposals for what they are. There is an academic world and there is the real world.

McConkey is really boosting his media profile!

I mean of course you have to respect his opinion as a scientist, but like anything in Science there's multiple ideas, solutions and ways of doing things and Scientists rarely agree on anything... So his is just one educated opinion...

lucernarian

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Was just a for instance example, McConkey coming out with more daft lockdown ideas he probably came up with while on the Loo....
Closing pubs and business in one area and not another, we've seen this in the UK where you could have two pubs 50m apart, one is in lockdown the other isn't..

Outdoor drinking in Dublin has many things against it.. Space, Weather, Security, local residents objections....

It sounds a bit like daily mail-ism to have hysteria about one place open while another 50 metres away, a place is closed. Same stupidity that led to the creation of the "Dublin 6W" postcode. Crazy mandarins and their crayon drawing on a map etc. Ireland is in the minority for its drinking beer/wine outside rules, and when a critical mass is reached people are doing it en-masse in a harmful over the top way. While friends looking to have a picnic with some drinks outside will be easy targets for security or gardai. Nothing at all to do with the publican's agenda of course.

I don't know whether people from outside Dublin realize that there is a whole commuter belt around Dublin.

Just to provide 1 example, Lucan (Dublin) is about a 10 min drive to Leixlip (kildare). What do you think happens if pubs/restaurants close in Lucan?

Dunboyne, Ashbourne, Rathoath, Cellbridge, Maynooth are all areas that are a stone throw away from Dublin. And those are just areas off the top of my head that are so close you could take a taxi.

NegativeCreep

Yes we should lock down Dublin and not allow anyone from any other county to commute into Dublin for work. We’ll see what sort of appetite there is for the lockdown then.

Graham

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Closing pubs and business in one area and not another, we've seen this in the UK where you could have two pubs 50m apart, one is in lockdown the other isn't..

Until we devise a way to draw geographical boundaries where all parties are on one side, it's kind of difficult to see how that scenario could be avoided.

theballz

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I don't know whether people from outside Dublin realize that there is a whole commuter belt around Dublin.

Just to provide 1 example, Lucan (Dublin) is about a 10 min drive to Leixlip (kildare). What do you think happens if pubs/restaurants close in Lucan?

Dunboyne, Ashbourne, Rathoath, Cellbridge, Maynooth are all areas that are a stone throw away from Dublin. And those are just areas off the top of my head that are so close you could take a taxi.

They don’t understand geography.

yourdeadwright

121 in Dublin today

210 country wide

tobefrank321

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't know whether people from outside Dublin realize that there is a whole commuter belt around Dublin.

Just to provide 1 example, Lucan (Dublin) is about a 10 min drive to Leixlip (kildare). What do you think happens if pubs/restaurants close in Lucan?

Dunboyne, Ashbourne, Rathoath, Cellbridge, Maynooth are all areas that are a stone throw away from Dublin. And those are just areas off the top of my head that are so close you could take a taxi.

There's very unlikely to be a lockdown that stops people going to work.

There may be a lockdown that stops people visiting other households. And pubs may remain closed. If Dubs want to go to other counties for a pint let them, but it would be a selfish thing to do as they risk spreading infection to other counties. Big price to pay for a pint, which you could have at home.

Any lockdown will likely be focused on social occasions - visiting other households, parties, gatherings such as baptisms, and also sporting events. Meeting your mates for a round of golf is not essential, despite what some believe.

May make sense to move some upcoming sports events out of Dublin too.

ChikiChiki

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't know whether people from outside Dublin realize that there is a whole commuter belt around Dublin.

Just to provide 1 example, Lucan (Dublin) is about a 10 min drive to Leixlip (kildare). What do you think happens if pubs/restaurants close in Lucan?

Dunboyne, Ashbourne, Rathoath, Cellbridge, Maynooth are all areas that are a stone throw away from Dublin. And those are just areas off the top of my head that are so close you could take a taxi.

It would make more sense to include Leixlip, Maynooth, Celbridge in the west Dublin area for the purposes of restrictions since the people in this area predominantly work and socialise in Dublin. Same with the Meath towns you mentioned which could be west Dublin also.



Lucan is actually almost an extension of Leixlip. 2-3 mins between villages but shared amenities. Leixlip is a very different kettle of fish to the likes of Newbridge and Naas. Both would have their fair share of Dublin commuters but their has to be a cut off.

MaccaTacca

ChikiChiki wrote: »

It would make more sense to include Leixlip, Maynooth, Celbridge in the west Dublin area for the purposes of restrictions since the people in this area predominantly work and socialise in Dublin. Same with the Meath towns you mentioned which could be west Dublin also.



Lucan is actually almost an extension of Leixlip. 2-3 mins between villages but shared amenities. Leixlip is a very different kettle of fish to the likes of Newbridge and Naas. Both would have their fair share of Dublin commuters but their has to be a cut off.

What about the likes of Bray and Shankill?

Speakerboxx

Its time this happens now. No more of this economy bullish which are used as excuses to keep it open.

Why it cant be shut down like Kildare Laois and Offaly were made to? Surely they can start by non essential services? Its gone too far and Dublin needs to be targeted now to prevent the spread further. Rules have to be consistent.

Claw Hammer

Speakerboxx wrote: »

Its time this happens now. No more of this economy bullish which are used as excuses to keep it open?

why it cant be shut down like Kildare Laois and Offaly did. Surely they can start by non essential services? Its gone too far and Dublin needs to be targeted now to prevent the spread.

It is only in parts of Dublin. Those parts invariably have a Sinn Fein TD.

tjhook

ChikiChiki wrote: »

It would make more sense to include Leixlip, Maynooth, Celbridge in the west Dublin area for the purposes of restrictions since the people in this area predominantly work and socialise in Dublin. Same with the Meath towns you mentioned which could be west Dublin also.

So the mixing of the populations means North Kildare should be included in any Dublin lockdown. For the same reasons, do you think Dublin should have been included in the Kildare lockdown? I don't remember a call for that at the time.

ChikiChiki

tjhook wrote: »

So the mixing of the populations means North Kildare should be included in any Dublin lockdown. For the same reasons, do you think Dublin should have been included in the Kildare lockdown? I don't remember a call for that at the time.

No, how many people travel from Dublin to Timahoe/Kildare Town/Newbridge Athy for work? Dublin very rarely travels into Kildare.

Likewise how many people travel from Celbridge, Leixlip, Maynooth to work down that direction?

People travel onto Dublin, the demographic living in those towns travel into Dublin in huge numbers to work and socialise.

ChikiChiki

MaccaTacca wrote: »

What about the likes of Bray and Shankill?

Bray and Greystones are extensions of the Dublin suburban area. A good argument probably is where commuter rail runs to.

Fr_Dougal

Speakerboxx wrote: »

Its time this happens now. No more of this economy bullish which are used as excuses to keep it open.

Why it cant be shut down like Kildare Laois and Offaly were made to? Surely they can start by non essential services? Its gone too far and Dublin needs to be targeted now to prevent the spread further. Rules have to be consistent.

It’s handy enough to shut down tier 2 counties, like Kerry etc. Without Dublin, who would pay for the COVID payments and the running of the country?

Xtrail14

The whole country will get locked down before Dublin does.

s8n

Speakerboxx wrote: »

Rules have to be consistent.

They really dont.

Bigger population, concentration of economic revenue etc...

odyssey06

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Bray and Greystones are extensions of the Dublin suburban area. A good argument probably is where commuter rail runs to.

Yep I was thinking the same thing... if there's commuter public transport available it's pointless lockding down only one stretch.
You'd also need to double any drink driving checkpoints.

Thierry12

What's point of a lockdown if schools are open?

How can it work?

1 million kids in classrooms all day with no mask's and are interconnected in someway with the other 4 million people living in this country

Anyone calling for a lockdown with the schools open, is an idiot, it's insane

stephenjmcd

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Bray and Greystones are extensions of the Dublin suburban area. A good argument probably is where commuter rail runs to.

ah go away with this will you. In that case then should Lucan have been locked down with Kildare a while ago ?

Bray and Greystones are Wicklow not Dublin.

Where commuter rail runs to ? So from Dublin then your looking at Wicklow, meath, louth, Kildare amongst others.

If you put restrictions in one area and want the next area where do you stop ? Until everywhere has restrictions.

They know where the areas of concern are, there's no political appetite for any lockdown so you won't see it or one extend into other counties. Its quite clear what the measures will be, a reduction in households mixing.

Nonsense

tjhook

ChikiChiki wrote: »

People travel onto Dublin, the demographic living in those towns travel into Dublin in huge numbers to work and socialise.

But people rarely travel from Kildare into Dublin without returning. The travel is in both directions. There's not a lot of logic to say that Dublin is unaffected by an outbreak in Kildare, but Kildare is affected by an outbreak in Dublin.

MY BAD

Graham wrote: »

Gardai objected to the renewal of a license for a pub in Achill yesterday for ongoing breaches’ of Covid-19 legislation.

That said, a few high-profile cases to demonstrate enforcement in all areas wouldn't go amiss.

Do you what village the pub was in?

ChikiChiki

stephenjmcd wrote: »

ah go away with this will you. In that case then should Lucan have been locked down with Kildare a while ago ?

Bray and Greystones are Wicklow not Dublin.

Where commuter rail runs to ? So from Dublin then your looking at Wicklow, meath, louth, Kildare amongst others.

If you put restrictions in one area and want the next area where do you stop ? Until everywhere has restrictions.

They know where the areas of concern are, there's no political appetite for any lockdown so you won't see it or one extend into other counties. Its quite clear what the measures will be, a reduction in households mixing.

Nonsense

Relax there, you are viewing it in a very simplistic way.

We are all trying to find better solutions on how to live with this. It's not an easy thing for anyone and we are all trying to find the least disruptive path forward.

My suggestion is looking at recategorising the suburban towns within counties surrounding into the Dublin suburban area based of census data which should have all that info.

County boundaries As-Is unworkable.

And btw, even Dublin can be broke up into a few juristrictions.

ceadaoin.

The economy isn't "bull****" but pretty important for life and society and function.

ChikiChiki

tjhook wrote: »

But people rarely travel from Kildare into Dublin without returning. The travel is in both directions. There's not a lot of logic to say that Dublin is unaffected by an outbreak in Kildare, but Kildare is affected by an outbreak in Dublin.

Recategorise North East Kildare into Dublin for managing the spread of the virus, the same as North Wicklow, the same as South Meath.

It's a different demographic.

tjhook

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Recategorise North East Kildare into Dublin for managing the spread of the virus, the same as North Wicklow, the same as South Meath.

It's a different demographic.

Good luck finding support for that proposal.

ChikiChiki

tjhook wrote: »

Good luck finding support for that proposal.

Yeah I know! Trust me as a lily it sickens me to even have to suggest it :-)

odyssey06

MY BAD wrote: »

Do you what village the pub was in?

Ted Lavelle’s Public House in Cashel, Achill
https://www.mayonews.ie/news/35814-gardai-object-to-achill-pub-licence-for-alleged-covid-breaches

odyssey06

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Relax there, you are viewing it in a very simplistic way.
We are all trying to find better solutions on how to live with this. It's not an easy thing for anyone and we are all trying to find the least disruptive path forward.
My suggestion is looking at recategorising the suburban towns within counties surrounding into the Dublin suburban area based of census data which should have all that info.
County boundaries As-Is unworkable.
And btw, even Dublin can be broke up into a few juristrictions.

Just noting car insurance companies already do this... one rate for Kildare, Meath commuter belt for Dublin versus the rest.

stephenjmcd

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Relax there, you are viewing it in a very simplistic way.

We are all trying to find better solutions on how to live with this. It's not an easy thing for anyone and we are all trying to find the least disruptive path forward.

My suggestion is looking at recategorising the suburban towns within counties surrounding into the Dublin suburban area based of census data which should have all that info.

County boundaries As-Is unworkable.

And btw, even Dublin can be broke up into a few juristrictions.

No point in saying relax there, I'm perfectly relaxed.

Just calling out a nonsense suggestion that absolutely nobody would go with.

If a town is in another county it goes on that counties incidence rate simple as, you don't lump them all in together nor can you essentially move them into another suburban area. I'm sure Greystones and anywhere in Wicklow or any other county surrounding Dublin would share the same view.

circadian

Assetbacked wrote: »

https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/casesinireland/epidemiologyofcovid-19inireland/

Your friend was one of the 17 people between the ages of 25-34 who were admitted to ICU, out of 5283 reported positive for covid in that age group (0.3%). Of course, these are very conservative figures considering we have likely had far higher numbers infected than officially reported as positive.

6 people under the age of 34 in total have died and were recorded as positive or probably positive for covid when they died. 93% of all such deaths are over the age of 65. It's all there in the HPSC reports.

He's not under the care of the hse.

Regardless, there is still a huge risk to our healthcare system. If the virus was allowed free reign then there would be many more dead as a result of strained resources rather than the virus itself.

ChikiChiki

stephenjmcd wrote: »

No point in saying relax there, I'm perfectly relaxed.

Just calling out a nonsense suggestion that absolutely nobody would go with.

If a town is in another county it goes on that counties incidence rate simple as, you don't lump them all in together nor can you essentially move them into another suburban area. I'm sure Greystones and anywhere in Wicklow or any other county surrounding Dublin would share the same view.

There are smarter ways of doing it, one being the way I am suggesting.

Use the data that is available and drive decisions from that.

ACitizenErased

Direct message from the CMO to Dublin

https://twitter.com/roinnslainte/status/1304491647389126657?s=21

Speakerboxx

ceadaoin. wrote: »

The economy isn't "bull****" but pretty important for life and society and function.

Very important but not as important as life it seems.

MaccaTacca

stephenjmcd wrote: »

ah go away with this will you. In that case then should Lucan have been locked down with Kildare a while ago ?

Bray and Greystones are Wicklow not Dublin.

Where commuter rail runs to ? So from Dublin then your looking at Wicklow, meath, louth, Kildare amongst others.

If you put restrictions in one area and want the next area where do you stop ? Until everywhere has restrictions.

They know where the areas of concern are, there's no political appetite for any lockdown so you won't see it or one extend into other counties. Its quite clear what the measures will be, a reduction in households mixing.

Nonsense

Well actually in the case of Bray, around 5/6,000 of the towns population of 32,000 live in county Dublin.

What do you do with those people?

growleaves

Disagree strongly. We're already taking an ultra-cautious approach. "Cases" bundles together symptomatic illnesses and asymptomatic infections. Then there is a smaller number of hospitalisations and an even smaller number in ICU.

Denny61

Dublin needs to be in lock down now.and house holders need to restrict movements..plus people need to work from home and all non essential businesses need to be closed down .First people might say...no need for lock down as figures are low per population .but wrong..its cos of the densely population That thls virus will take off like wildfire..and secondly if we allow it to .then it's going to be spread rapidly in other bordering counties..
We have to nip this in the bud..or else its going to be a nightmare situation leading up to.christmas...

DangerScouse

Claw Hammer wrote: »

It is only in parts of Dublin. Those parts invariably have a Sinn Fein TD.

Poor effort. 3/10

Double O Seven

Where are the army trucks carrying dead bodies from hospital ? Back in march this is the picture that was painted by the media of the Covid world

Mantis Toboggan

As I said in the other thread if they don't take action in Dublin then lockdowns in other counties later on will be impossible.