To Mask or not to two - Mask Megathread cont.

mcmoustache

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117656686#Comment_117656686

What you read was an article and not a scientific paper. The article links to the scientific paper so you can click on it and the actual scientific paper will be shown in your browser.

The scientific paper explains the methodologies and all that sciencey stuff that the article leaves out for brevity, as is common with articles about science.

All that said though, if people don't believe that putting masks over creatures' airholes can help stop the spread of a disease that comes out of those same airholes, a scientific paper isn't gong to persuade them.

CalamariFritti

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117656994#Comment_117656994

I have a few question about the study then.

The article says that the mask mandate was the only measure introduced during the observation period and therefore it was such a good opportunity for observation. But is is quite a short observation period and in the study paper it clearly says that other quite stringent measures were introduced shortly just before that. Also it says nothing about the test numbers in the timespan. And lastly I'm unsure about the Victoria reference. Is that supposed to be the control group? I didnt understand that, but I dont mean that in a bad mouthy way, I literally didnt understand that paragraph.

But lastly I have a question for the mask fans bringing up this study.

So you actually want us to wear masks at all times everywhere outside our homes? Because thats what Melbourne did here.

mcmoustache

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117657255#Comment_117657255

First off, I think that we can safely assume that masks are a bit overkill outside. I never wear one outside. I might do if I was in a dense crowd or something like that but I'm not doing anything like that until this blows over.

As to the findings of the paper and how it was all carried out, my area of expertise isn't scientific research so I would be likely to misinterpret or simply fail to understand it. From what I'm prepared to understand from a scientific paper after a few beers is that they compared the exponential infection rate in Melbourne(in the state of Victoria) when restrictions were introduced with the known infection rate when without intervention. They made observations (using cameras) to record mask-compliance and see what effect if any that it had on the infection rate. I'll take another look when I'm sober but I don't see much of a surprise that people covering their gobs reduces the the transmission rate of something that spreads from people's gobs. Remember, the mask gives feck-all protection from the wearer but it stops a lot of the wearer's germs from getting out. You can get masks that protect the wearer but they cost a lot more.

riclad

the new covid varient is much more contagious, i read it can be transmitted much faster than the old version. if i,m walking on a street and i can be within 6 ft of another person i,ll wear a mask. i wear a mask when inside any shop or building.its simple wear a mask that covers your mouth and nose.the virus usually enters your body through your nose or mouth.many american states have a low rate of vaccination eg 40 per cent approx, in those states the no of covid case,s is increasing rapidly and it may overwhelm the hospitals especially in rural area,s where there is a limited no of hospital beds .right now ireland has a 66 per cent vaccination rate according to a post i read on reddit.com i see a religious group that serves food at a soup kitchen .they are american , usually they wear no masks . i saw them this week ,they were all wearing masks .the problem i see is there will always be weirdo,s or extremists who think covid is a hoax so they may refuse to take a vaccine or wear a mask in public and this will stop normal services like concerts, sports events going ahead in the future, or else some return to a normal life.

bodhrandude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117591836#Comment_117591836

Where did you get that cartoon strip from, its surreal as fcuk, why are these two people travelling in a tiny train?

mcmoustache

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117657616#Comment_117657616

Yeah, the new variant is much more contagious but on the bright side, the vaccines are very effective against it. Unfortunately, those who choose not to get vaccinated and refuse to wear masks will ensure that we need to be dealing with this longer than necessary.

AlekSmart

The problem i see is there will always be weirdo,s or extremists who think covid is a hoax so they may refuse to take a vaccine or wear a mask in public

So,only Weirdo's and Extremist's choose to act as normal human beings in largely normal settings ?

That belief is worth expanding upon surely ?

There are a small number of Covid deniers amongst us,all recognisable and easily bypassed,however one does'nt have to be a Denier or Anti-Vaxxer to recognise the basic contradictions between Covid-19 as it actually is and Covid-19 as it is now being marketed Worldwide.

Healthy scepticism should be encouraged,and masking is as good a place as any to start 🙄

Seanergy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117655581#Comment_117655581

I'd be fuming at those spanners. There was a chance lockdown was being lifted next week, now that's off the cards.

NSW Police have charged 57 people and issued more than 90 infringement notices after anti-lockdown protestors gathered in their thousands in Sydney's CBD.

Minister for Police and Emergency Services David Elliott said further charges were expected, as police launch a new strike force to identify "as many people as possible" involved in the protest activity and to track down 3500 "very selfish boofheads".

Aussie police towing a different line to AGS. No 4 E's.

Let's call your post what it is, an Anti-lockdown post guised as being prelated to masks. Boofheads.

VG31

I'd be fuming at those spanners. There was a chance lockdown was being lifted next week, now that's off the cards.

Ah come on now, that was never going to happen.

Seanergy

But lastly I have a question for the mask fans bringing up this study.

So you actually want us to wear masks at all times everywhere outside our homes? Because thats what Melbourne did here.

Everywhere but supermarkets, cause there has been zero cases in supermarkets in Ireland. 🤡

What happened when Melbourne had everyone wearing masks everywhere outside their homes, cases went to zero, zero. The result of that being that zero masks had to be worn, both outside and inside.

Zero is not your lucky number.

Sconsey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117659616#Comment_117659616

I've no idea how to bold text from a quote withthe new Boards interface, but anyway....

<QUOTE>So,only Weirdo's and Extremist's choose to act as normal human beings in largely normal settings ?</QUOTE>

No the weirdos are the ones trying to push their view as normal. The normal thing to do during a pandemic is to follow the expert medical advice. The weirdos and extremists pitch their stupid ideas as normal and try to describe the majority as being abnormal. The thing is, the vast majority to do not fall for that kind of weak attempt at manipulation. Just beacuse you believe something does not make it 'normal'.

Unicorn Milk Latte

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117645794#Comment_117645794

The one thing that is incorrect about the article - not the study itself - is labelling it 'World-first study'.

The study was published in July 2020, while this study out of Germany, which also measures and describes the effectiveness of masks, was published a month earlier, in June 2020:

PDF:

http://ftp.iza.org/dp13319.pdf

riclad

Lets presume you walk to shop,s ,anywhere you are within 6 feet of another person you should wear a mask, on the streets .

f you can cycle around in the morning or evening without getting close to anyone then maybe you can take off the mask until you reach a shop or a workplace.i think in maybe 6 months time when everyone has been vaxxed it maybe be safer to not wear a mask.

But some people who are weird or conspiracy nuts might never get a vaccine and they will pose a threat as if the get covid they can give it to anyone , the cdc in america say its best to wear a mask inside any shop or workplace because of rising covid infections ,EVEN if you have been given 2 vaccine jabs. even people who have had a vaccine can still get covid 19. maybe 5 or 10 per cent of irish people might never get the vaccine for various reasons .

Unicorn Milk Latte

Fauci gave a good explanation for the reasoning of the CDC re-instating indoor mask mandates in high incidence areas in the US, even for vaccinated people. He goes into details, like (rare) break through infections, and the difference in virus load in infected people with the Alpha variant vs. Delta variant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Vgn43Ly-L8

fun loving criminal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117675984#Comment_117675984

Towards the end of that video, Fauci is very concerned of new variants emerging in those that are not vaccinated.

Is it about time that they make vaccines mandatory or not allow non-vaccinated people back to society?

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117657616#Comment_117657616

Yeah yeah new variant always bigger faster and stronger than the last one..nice Kool aid.

Listen, I've been working in a covid ward for the best part of a year. Guess what. I didn't get it, either did anyone in my team. We wore PPE. You're not gonna catch it off someone outside 6 feet away who isn't wearing a mask. You'd be better off not inhaling the bullshit you read funded by Pfizer.

mcmoustache

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117676227#Comment_117676227

I'm against mandating vaccines myself, due to simple bodily autonomy reasons. Nobody should be able to force a vaccine on anybody.

That leaves keeping the unvaccinated away from the rest of society as the only other alternative because letting them mix around with everyone else is just going to create more outbreaks forcing more fúcking lockdowns and I'm personally sick of it. I know it seems harsh but you would be surprised at how fickle the principles of the "vaccine hesitant" can be when they trade those principles for the ability to drink a pint as we saw in France. A creamy pint of Guinness by a fire in a nice pub is a lot more tangible than some FUD that they saw an facebook. It's all well and good to think "well I want to wait until the vaccine has been around a few years before I trust it so I'll just take my chances with this thing that kills people and leaves others with long term lung and brain damage" on the internet but the real world has a knack of getting people to snap out of such idiocy.

There will still be some who are so far down the rabbit hole of youtube "science" that won't be reached but keeping them out of the pubs will let the rest of us go back to normal. Those types are typically not invited out anyway so it's not going to change a lot.

Seanergy

Masks will be required indoors in D.C. for all people over 2.

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/coronavirus/dc-mask-mandate-indoors-despite-vaccination-status-dc-worker-vaccines/2750029/

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117676496#Comment_117676496

Not as far down the rabbit hole as you have gone. To think you would happily segregate people just so you can selfishly have a pint. Everyone is sick of lockdowns and maybe looking back it will need to be asked where they needed and why the government didn't use the first lockdown to introduce guidance to businesses to allow them open safely and remain open. Also if you are vaccinated what do you have to worry about if an unvaccinated person is in the same restaurant or pub as you, sure you have your vaccination. I guess you would be happy then to maybe have unvaccinated go to different shops to do their shopping or maybe have them move to live in different zones for unvaccinated only. You are people like you are the reason why this segregation should never have been brought in.

Seanergy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117676293#Comment_117676293

Listen, I've been working in a covid ward for the best part of a year. You're not gonna catch it off someone outside 6 feet away who isn't wearing a mask. You'd be better off not inhaling the bullshit you read funded by Pfizer.

Yank the other ball. Anyone and I repeat anyone who has experienced the horror of a COVID ward would not spew that Conspiracy Theory crap. I suppose 'Big Soap' is behind covid is not airborne.

mcmoustache

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117679818#Comment_117679818

The vaccine doesn't fully prevent people from catching covid. It reduces the time that people are shedding it and lowers the symptoms and damage. An asymptomatic, unvaccinated person could be be shedding covid for weeks. There's also the strong overlap between anti-vaccine types and anti-maskers and probably people who don't wash their hands too. I'm not that big into washing my hands either in fairness so I probably shouldn't judge but one should definitely question the general judgement of the "vaccine hesitant" - you can never be sure if they aren't licking every door handle on their way to and from the jacks.

I get that it can seem unfair to exclude those who are afraid of vaccinations or unable to acquire one for whatever reason, there's no reason to allow them to spoil the fun for those of us who aren't afraid. Most of us if you look at the uptake rates want to get back to normal and we're prepared to do what it takes. If a bunch of lazy, incompetent or scared people can't do what it takes and are more contagious as a result, why should they be able to share in the fun and undo the sacrifices made by everyone else who were able to use the internet and weren't afraid of a little jab?

Call it segregation if you like but it's no different to having no clothes on and reeking of shíte before covid - you wouldn't be allowed in but you could go home, shower the shíte off you and put on some clothes before returning to the pub. In reality, antivax types aren't really that serious about their stance. It's a community to belong to, a temporary identity or a fashion statement. It generates fake internet points but that's about it. When there are real world personal consequences for their online crackpottery, they come around quickly enough as we saw in France there recently. Not everyone cops on at the same time, some take a little longer than others and if a little encouragement is all it takes, I don't see the problem.

xhomelezz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117676293#Comment_117676293

Cleaner by any chance? Or there's more educated insight on your side.

Edit: No disrespect for cleaners here.

Seanergy

Crazy.

https://twitter.com/59dallas/status/1422203382371078144

fun loving criminal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117697206#Comment_117697206

God, it's not the workers fault. Absolute nutjob.

Seanergy

A translation from Russian of what he is saying would be insightful to this thread....I'd be willing to wager he accused everyone of being cowards/scared.

He mentions sausages and beer, guessing that's what the wife went to the shop for. On leaving the shop after not getting served the wife got into a verbal scrap, no doubt related to what just happened, ie masks, with some lad. The wife claimed that the man had pushed her during the convo which is why after some time her husband burst into the store.

It was his second axe welding offence, you'd thunk he would have put on a mask for it! His son did the recording and Axel Russian threw it up on his FB.

Seanergy

This. Prevention recommendations from 1918 newspaper.

Seanergy

Michelle, a frontline nurse and graduate of UCD, was blunt in her assessment of Cahill and UCD. 

“I don’t know how UCD expects anyone to hold the same respect for nursing and medical degrees from UCD when a UCD professor so confidently spreads misinformation and remains employed by UCD”, she told The Beacon. As a nurse Michelle related that she wears a mask while working 12 hours with no effect on her oxygen levels.

While working as an intern on the wards Michelle and her colleagues “weren’t allowed to wear a surgical mask in the corridor”. She had to watch “full units of staff get wiped out with COVID-positive tests, some of whom never were able to return to work”.

She believes Cahill is fortunate she’s gotten off so easy during the pandemic. “I’ve seen the value of these masks”, Michelle relates. “She is lucky she has never had to”.

https://the-beacon.ie/2021/08/07/there-has-to-be-a-line-anger-in-ucd-over-dolores-cahill-but-uncertainty-about-what-can-be-done/

Seanergy

PPE: Gateshead NHS Trust first to make its own masks

The trust's company has invested in machinery from Germany and the masks are being made in Plant Based Valley, in Seaton Delaval in partnership with Northumbria Healthcare NHS Trust.

Northumbria's manufacturing and innovation hub divisional director, Sarah Rose, said the trust had realised early in the pandemic it needed a local supply of PPE and bought large-scale production space in the area.

The masks are now going through final tests at the British Standards Laboratory with the expectation they will be certified by the end of August.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-tyne-58097840

Seanergy

https://twitter.com/DeeGilhawley/status/1424676084147269636

4. Masks (see Note 4 for more details):

There must be an urgent review of the decision not to recommend children wear masks in primary

schools, considering the much more aggressive and transmissible Delta variant, high levels of

community transmission and the fact that young children do not have access to vaccination.

NPHET and those providing the public health advice to the Department of Education must now

recommend children wear masks in primary schools, as the CDC has strongly advised in the US.

Primary school children in many EU countries – such as France, Spain, Greece, Italy and Portugal -

wear masks to school, as do children in the US, to help protect themselves and others. Irish children

deserve the same protection. This would also help protect primary school children with high-risk

health conditions or weakened immune systems or who live with a family member who is very high

risk.

The decision to send children back to full classrooms in primary schools without masks – often 30

or more people in a classroom – with high levels of cases in the community, could be seen as

negligent, in light of what is known about the Delta variant.

What is the scientific basis for public health deciding not to recommend masks be worn in primary

schools, in direct opposition to the advice provided by the CDC? If all adults are advised to wear

masks in indoor settings, why are children being treated differently, given the latest research from

the CDC states that children are as likely to get and as likely to transmit the virus as adults?

Seanergy

Excellent mask hacking happening with this one, filtered exhaust and a little fan to help when breathing in.

https://twitter.com/RealSexyCyborg/status/1424285288877068293