Have NPHET lost the attention of people?

is_that_so

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Recommendations coming through this morning are for a level 4+ or 4.5 or 4. whatever because it’s total bollox, they invented these levels and are now not sticking to them.

It is a somewhat vain attempt to hang onto what they can. One idea being suggested is that construction becomes an essential service so that it can continue.

is_that_so

is_that_so wrote: »

It is a somewhat vain attempt to hang onto what they can. One idea being suggested is that construction becomes an essential service so that it can continue.

I can only imagine the amount of lobbying going on over the weekend and into today!

Vestiapx

is_that_so wrote: »

It is a somewhat vain attempt to hang onto what they can. One idea being suggested is that construction becomes an essential service so that it can continue.

Construction is an essential service at level4 since at lease the October 15th re write of the rules

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/c9158-essential-services-for-level-4/?referrer=http://www.gov.ie/essentialservices/

Vestiapx

Vestiapx wrote: »

Construction is an essential service at level4 since at lease the October 15th re write of the rules

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/c9158-essential-services-for-level-4/?referrer=http://www.gov.ie/essentialservices/

Ah, but what about level 4+?

Dempo1

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I can only imagine the amount of lobbying going on over the weekend and into today!

Heard retail excellence on this morning, pity this chap didn't take a look at the chaos in Dublin city on Saturday and indeed Retail generally, absol no adherence to anything, just appalling and now it's being hinted make "All" retail essential. What a crock of Sh€e that idea is. Why has there been absolutely no concerns raised at what's going on in retail. If they proceed with this idea, they may as well not bother.

Humilde

https://gript.ie/support-for-lockdown-is-driven-by-project-fear/

Humilde

Dempo1 wrote: »

Heard retail excellence on this morning, pity this chap didn't take a look at the chaos in Dublin city on Saturday and indeed Retail generally, absol no adherence to anything, just appalling and now it's being hinted make "All" retail essential. What a crock of Sh€e that idea is. Why has there been absolutely no concerns raised at what's going on in retail. If they proceed with this idea, they may as well not bother.

I'm guessing you don't work in retail? Smacks of "I'm alright Jack". If your family depended on your wage to live and pay the mortgage, I'd say you'd think that retail was the most essential service around.

RoryMac

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Recommendations coming through this morning are for a level 4+ or 4.5 or 4. whatever because it’s total bollox, they invented these levels and are now not sticking to them.

That plan was binned after 2 days when they went against it for Dublin. Probably spent millions on it in advertisements and sending out copies to houses when it was out of date before it got there.

Another complete waste of time and money

Dempo1

Humilde wrote: »

I'm guessing you don't work in retail? Smacks of "I'm alright Jack". If your family depended on your wage to live and pay the mortgage, I'd say you'd think that retail was the most essential service around.

You you assume Retail settings have nothing to do what's going on? Take your mind back to March? But it's all fine and dandy, let's just close the pubs (already in their knees, Let's close restaurants (bizzarely expected to trade on the footpath), I'm not recommending any sector be penalised but ask a ligitimate question, namely is Retail, particularly shopping centres part of the issue. If we assume they proceed, send 100"s of thousands home tomorrow, what do you suppose those people will do? and don't come back with unenforceable travel restrictions nonsense. Its all or nothing that's got to be decided, 4.5.6.9 absurdity is only going to prolong this and achieve nothing.

Hellrazer

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Recommendations coming through this morning are for a level 4+ or 4.5 or 4. whatever because it’s total bollox, they invented these levels and are now not sticking to them.

It is total bollox - I actually dont think these people in charge can think for themselves - they either know something the general public dont or they really are completely stupid.

I posted this 3 days ago and now this morning I read that all but essential retail service are going to be closed.Can you imagine early December - there will be zero social distancing!!!!

Whats going to happen is they lock us down for 6 weeks,the case numbers drop and the r number goes back to 1 or below--yay well done NPHET--Take a bow!!!

Then they stick us on level 1 or 2 again the first week of December.
Shoppers will go absolutely nuts in the run up to Christmas and then we get another spike in numbers ..this time blamed on the retail trade. They`ll lock the retail trade down JUST BEFORE January and the sales rush and we`ll be back to level 5 the first week after the new year.
Round and round we go.

They haven't a breeze what they are at. Its just laughable at this stage.

Hellrazer

Dempo1 wrote: »

You you assume Retail settings have nothing to do what's going on? Take your mind back to March? But it's all fine and dandy, let's just close the pubs (already in their knees, Let's close restaurants (bizzarely expected to trade on the footpath), I'm not recommending any sector be penalised but ask a ligitimate question, namely is Retail, particularly shopping centres part of the issue. If we assume they proceed, send 100"s of thousands home tomorrow, what do you suppose those people will do? and don't come back with unenforceable travel restrictions nonsense. Its all or nothing that's got to be decided, 4.5.6.9 absurdity is only going to prolong this and achieve nothing.

Retailers in the main have been quite good at keeping the rules enforced. I dont think that they should be shut down.

What should be done is the schools closed from today for 3 weeks and keep us all at level 3.
See if the numbers change - if they do their whole "experiment" with keeping the schools open at all costs is a complete failure and needs to be revisited.

I said it at the end of August that the schools opening will be a major factor in the spread of covid and increasing the number of cases and opening them is wrong. I stand by that.But NPHET and the 3 muppets of the apocalypse dont see it.

MOH

karlitob wrote: »

There is mass testing - over a 100000 this week.

Oh hurray, roll out the fireworks, we've reached the 100,000 weekly tests we were promised back in May.

karlitob wrote: »

In a park of 100 people, I saw a handful of older people wearing masks

Why would people be wearing masks in parks? Has there been another stealth edit to the level 3 restrictions requiring wearing of masks in parks? Must have missed that one, I've only checked it the four times times this week.

JimmyVik

They are making it up as they go along.
I just can believe a word of advice from them anymore.

Munsterman12

One thing people will listen to is fines! Big scary ones!
And if people dont pay, guess what! Prison!
Never let the enemy win.

RoryMac

Hellrazer wrote: »

Retailers in the main have been quite good at keeping the rules enforced. I dont think that they should be shut down.

What should be done is the schools closed from today for 3 weeks and keep us all at level 3.
See if the numbers change - if they do their whole "experiment" with keeping the schools open at all costs is a complete failure and needs to be revisited.

I said it at the end of August that the schools opening will be a major factor in the spread of covid and increasing the number of cases and opening them is wrong. I stand by that.But NPHET and the 3 muppets of the apocalypse dont see it.

They can't close the schools because that would highlight that the Gov & Dept of Education haven't bothered their hole to do anything to prepare for teaching kids remotely in the last 7 months.

A plan to allow for blended learning from August with the ability to go to full remote learning should have been prioritised in March/April but nothing has been done.

Now we will have 10's or 100's of thousands lose their jobs in the next few weeks all the while kids will be bringing the virus to and from school and keeping the numbers high.

RoryMac

Munsterman12 wrote: »

One thing people will listen to is fines! Big scary ones!
And if people dont pay, guess what! Prison!
Never let the enemy win.

Political suicide, it won't happen

Hellrazer

RoryMac wrote: »

They can't close the schools because that would highlight that the Gov & Dept of Education haven't bothered their hole to do anything to prepare for teaching kids remotely in the last 7 months.

What they are terrified is having to pull another U-Turn after the shambles they have had since taking power with all the scandals they have had.

If they pulled a U-Turn on the schools now it would more than likely be the end of this coalition. So its all about power and keeping their respective parties in government.

JimmyVik

RoryMac wrote: »

They can't close the schools because that would highlight that the Gov & Dept of Education haven't bothered their hole to do anything to prepare for teaching kids remotely in the last 7 months.

A plan to allow for blended learning from August with the ability to go to full remote learning should have been prioritised in March/April but nothing has been done.

Now we will have 10's or 100's of thousands lose their jobs in the next few weeks all the while kids will be bringing the virus to and from school and keeping the numbers high.

100% This. MAny people will die because politicians cant admit to a wrong decision.

Humilde

Dempo1 wrote: »

You you assume Retail settings have nothing to do what's going on? Take your mind back to March? But it's all fine and dandy, let's just close the pubs (already in their knees, Let's close restaurants (bizzarely expected to trade on the footpath), I'm not recommending any sector be penalised but ask a ligitimate question, namely is Retail, particularly shopping centres part of the issue. If we assume they proceed, send 100"s of thousands home tomorrow, what do you suppose those people will do? and don't come back with unenforceable travel restrictions nonsense. Its all or nothing that's got to be decided, 4.5.6.9 absurdity is only going to prolong this and achieve nothing.

I never said retail has nothing to do with whats going on. This virus spreads anywhere, including in offices of the government and civil service. Why not close down the sections of government which aren't necessary at the moment? I wonder what the reaction would be to that? Better still, as the hospitals are currently very low on patients, why not give a section of the medical staff an unpaid holiday until such time as they are needed again? Lets do an analysis of all government departments and committees to see which are essential and which are not. One for all and all for one. Everybody on the 350 quid a week, no matter if your private or civil service. Then I think people like me would not scoff at the unfairness of lockdown etc. If its good for the goose, its good for the gander.

Vieira82

Dempo1 wrote: »

You you assume Retail settings have nothing to do what's going on? Take your mind back to March? But it's all fine and dandy, let's just close the pubs (already in their knees, Let's close restaurants (bizzarely expected to trade on the footpath), I'm not recommending any sector be penalised but ask a ligitimate question, namely is Retail, particularly shopping centres part of the issue. If we assume they proceed, send 100"s of thousands home tomorrow, what do you suppose those people will do? and don't come back with unenforceable travel restrictions nonsense. Its all or nothing that's got to be decided, 4.5.6.9 absurdity is only going to prolong this and achieve nothing.

The problem with all of this is the complete lack of leadership at an EU and US level, the constant lobbying by millionaires that had their profits massively increase in the last 8 months, and citizens tired of this pandemic believing that life will go back to normal and all is business as usual...

People have not understood yet the already massive economic and social implications this is having only comparable with WWII. And with that the same with governments not only in Ireland but all around Europe and the US...

This lack of leadership and actual support for all parts of society has meant that people cannot take this seriously if they have to pay bills and loans... all because creditors, those same millionaires that only got richer don't want to part ways with one single dime, for them we're all expendable cannon fodder just to make them more and more money. And no gov. has the guts to actually face them...

So here we are, people without money, starting to be unable to pay mortgages, insurance, credits and no gov bats an eye because they have no idea what they are doing and want forcefully to send people on their normal ways to appease the lobbyists..

So yes, I'm advocating for people to be supported, EVERYONE to be supported and not just PUP.

There's loads that needs to be done now, for example Ireland is terrible unsustainable in terms of resources, we had a good Summer, why not grant people an extra money if they produce food in their backyards? (which btw is reason they exist in the first place) get that production in local markets instead of importing food.

Get farmers grants to switch to sustainable agriculture and not more for beef beef beef... heck... talk with any small farmer, deep down they know the current insanity of only beef and dairy is not good, but that's where the grants are coming from...

Offer grants to retail to be able to move online without any big bureaucracy, offer SEO optimization for free, offer gov. backed online platforms where retailers could sell and interact with their customers.

Yes, we do have a large hospitality sector, so ensure restaurants are well fitted for take away and offer citizens tax discounts if they order takeaway from restaurants.

And pubs do have a really important place in rural Ireland, so ensure only locals without any previous interaction can go to their nearest local pub whlle incentivize city and village pubs to temporarily switch either to take away or other forms of income until this is over.

For hotels, b&b and the likes make it legal a suspension of all business expenditures until this is fully finished or at least controlled. This obviously not including big international hotel chains.

Obviously you can see how these solutions are impossible to be implemented. Simply put, Tescos, Dunnes and any other giant supermarket chain would go mad against people producing their own food again through gov. grants.

Amazon, Ebay and other in the likes would go ballistic if any gov. would support businesses going online in this way as would affect their monopoly...

And SEO and business digitalization would eat away at the revenue of the likes of Facebook or Google that so importantly exist in the ROI.

These times called for a massive social support for society to go through it but we're seeing none of it at all at a global level and all we're talking is "the economy" The economy of those that are only getting richer and a few empty heads that defend this approach without really understanding the consequences of it... this meaning it's not the small shop or restaurant that will make money because with less customers you'll end up barely keeping your doors open! It's an approach that only benefit big corporations keeping their money flowing...

But yes.. NPHET is to blame for all of this of course...

Idbatterim

Can they just move 1st to fourth or fifth year secondary students online for a few weeks ?

RoryMac

JimmyVik wrote: »

100% This. MAny people will die because politicians cant admit to a wrong decision.

And it's not just the schools, what have the Gov actually done to improve how we can cope with this going forward?

They've failed to prepare the schools, failed to increase the ICU capacity, track & trace has collapsed, failed to protect care facilities.

They've sat on their hands throughout this designing colour charts for levels which cost millions to be sent to every house and were out of date before they were delivered.

JimmyVik

I am of the opinion that doing just one thing will solve the whole mess.
There is only one place where most people are in an enclosed space and in close contact.
Schools.
Everywhere else there is social distancing. 90% of people are following the rules, which should be good enough.
But in schools there are different rules. Rules that ENSURE that there is closer contact going on, and then going home to families in the evenings.
Close the schools and start working out a remote learning system (like they should have been doing before opening the schools in the first place) and implement it.

kippy

JimmyVik wrote: »

I am of the opinion that doing just one thing will solve the whole mess.
There is only one place where most people are in an enclosed space and in close contact.
Schools.
Everywhere else there is social distancing. 90% of people are following the rules, which should be good enough.
But in schools there are different rules. Rules that ENSURE that there is closer contact going on, and then going home to families in the evenings.
Close the schools and start working out a remote learning system (like they should have been doing before opening the schools in the first place) and implement it.

The facts don't tally with that.

Maxpfizer

Munsterman12 wrote: »

One thing people will listen to is fines! Big scary ones!
And if people dont pay, guess what! Prison!
Never let the enemy win.

You can't fine people who have nothing left to give.

Seems like a bad idea to be going around giving fines to folks who are already under financial strain. Only makes their situation worse, which makes our collective situation worse.

Send them all to prison then? Great. Who's paying for that?

Hellrazer

kippy wrote: »

The facts don't tally with that.

I can only speak for my own sons school here and so far they have had 5 students and 5 teachers test positive for covid (Maynooth post primary)

Each of those 5 teenagers have probably come into contact with at least 10 students each per day - thats 50 contacts.

Each of those could have the same.So we`re now at 500.
Thats in one school. That school has upwards of 2000 students!!

My son was what he thought was a close contact of one of them but the school deemed he wasnt...

Theres something seriously wrong with the way its being reported or close contacts are being defined in schools.

Then I find out that instances in Maynooths incidence rate increased by 300% in a week.
https://kfmradio.com/news/16102020-0841/covid-19-incidence-rate-maynooth-lea-has-increased-300

Too much of a coincidence for my liking!!


Is there no one in government that can see that the schools are causing case numbers to spike?

Vieira82

Hellrazer wrote: »

I can only speak for my own sons school here and so far they have had 5 students and 5 teachers test positive for covid (Maynooth post primary)

Each of those 5 teenagers have probably come into contact with at least 10 students each per day - thats 50 contacts.

Each of those could have the same.So we`re now at 500.
Thats in one school. That school has upwards of 2000 students!!

My son was what he thought was a close contact of one of them but the school deemed he wasnt...

Theres something seriously wrong with the way its being reported or close contacts are being defined in schools.

Then I find out that instances in Maynooths incidence rate increased by 300% in a week.
https://kfmradio.com/news/16102020-0841/covid-19-incidence-rate-maynooth-lea-has-increased-300


Is there no one in government that can see that the schools are causing case numbers to spike?

Not to mention each school is managing it as they see fit.. no coordinated national response. Got two Nephews in two schools in Cork and both manage it substantially different.

Then you got stupid ideas like having lunch in the gym with all doors and windows open and not allowing students to have their meal with the jacket on?

funnydoggy

Schools across the country are closing of their own accord because of a lack of communication from the HSE

JDxtra

Unless NPHET come out and categorically explain that schools are a significant vector for virus transmission then expect them to remain open.

There is huge pressure to keep schools open. In my experience (4 children at school), they are well managed and are doing everything they can to keep children/staff safe and to remain open. If you close primary schools, many parents will not able to work on a normal full time schedule and you’ll cause even further damage to the economy, businesses and the overall wellbeing of our children.

funnydoggy

Schools with regular abled children are one thing, but the SNAs dealing with children with all sorts of special needs are at big risk. My neighbour is an SNA and he's in a setting with children who have varying degrees of autism. There is no way that the guidelines can be adhered to in a school such as this. More and more people in said setting are being showing symptoms in the last few days.