How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

Thierry12

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

not in the slightest

Wow

Thought they might have some distance learning setup, especially secondary schools

This is gonna be some mess

Sunday Sunday

Murple wrote: »

Actually they do. That’s the whole point. Ventilation. All the time. Every day. Not just when the sun shines and it’s warm.

Where exactly has that come from? I haven't seen that said anywhere that all windows and doors have to be open ll the time.

caveat emptor

sideswipe wrote: »

They are giving out about money really, not the actual job.

It does seem there are a few here who want to post every little negative (often without context) and have nothing positive to add.
Not aimed directly at you wirelessdude but something I've witnessed over time. There are genuine fears and there is fear mongering.
People need to give the return to school a fair go for the sake of the kids. I know it's not a great situation and there are turbulent times ahead as well as behind but there is also a chance it might go much better than expected. Schools on Wuhan went back in May.

......

False equivalence. Maybe we should start getting real about it. We might be able to get them back in 6 / 8 weeks. If not forget about. This autumn / winter will be a write-off. The dynamics of transmission haven't changed. Expecting a different outcome is silly. It wasn't circulating in schools here in march so we literally have nothing to base assumptions off.

• China has had border closed to foreigners since march 10th.
• 2 week mandatory supervised quarantine necessary and negative PCR test needed to leave after the 2 weeks for its own citizens.
• only start allowing those non nationals with residency permits to APPLY for a visa to return on Aug 10th if they were out of the country.

They didn't go to Spain and not quarantine. We can't have cake and eat it too. No matter how much cognitive dissonance you employ.

https://twitter.com/EqualPayforNQTs/status/1294685503527288832?s=20

St.Spodo

St.Spodo wrote: »

The government continued to communicate mixed messages to the public today. It's okay to for teachers to meet dozens of people indoors in their working day, but cannot meet more than 5 others socially. In March-May, we all understood what "flatten the curve" meant and what was being asked of us to bring that about. What are we being asked to do now, treat covid like an occupational hazard but stay away from people when we go home? Very confusing. They need to tell us exactly what the end goal is here.

Its about limiting the opportunities for infections while allowing life to proceed. So, you put measures in place where you can, to mean that even though you are not able to do the same in other areas, the overall impact is to reduce total transmission.

Mrsmum

One of the mantras of my family doctor is that cold and wet weather doesn't give you colds and getting out and about is the key to good health (although I personally have found getting drown wet is more often than not followed by a cold but I guess she's the doctor.).There are I believe one or two full time outdoor creches in Ireland - as in rain, hail or shine. I think it's popular in other countries too and often it's the cold countries that do it. Maybe more creches and schools here need to look at being outside more. As my German neighbour tells me, there is no such thing as bad weather, only bad clothes and she says Irish people have no idea how to dress for the weather. Actually years ago I was talking to this woman who was from one of the Scandinavian countries and she was saying new born babies are put sleeping outside for a period every day as it's considered the healthy thing to do, well muffled up obviously. So there you have it folks, get used to the cold and maybe consider buying a few Aran jumpers !

Sammy2012

Is there going to be anything in this expected announcement today about schools?

scrubs33

Sammy2012 wrote: »

Is there going to be anything in this expected announcement today about schools?

I would be very, very surprised if there was. All the indications are around +70s and gatherings in houses

St.Spodo

Deleted User wrote: »

Its about limiting the opportunities for infections while allowing life to proceed. So, you put measures in place where you can, to mean that even though you are not able to do the same in other areas, the overall impact is to reduce total transmission.

My perspective is that this virus is too dangerous and uncertain to proceed with the current school reopening plan. That said, I will go back to the classroom because I don't really have a choice. Hoping for a miracle.

Mrsmum

There was a post here earlier about a teacher with an underlying condition being in an awful state, actually having a panic attack, over having to go back to school. While I want schools open and think/hope my children are healthy enough, I think stories like hers need to be out in the media. Teachers and children who are at risk should NOT have to go to school (unless they want to). They are as vulnerable if not more than many 70 year olds. To this end, on their behalf, I have voiced my opinion to a few of my local TDs, that some other system needs to be put in place for them. Who among us would send our own at risk family member into a danger zone. If you agree, I would urge you to get onto your local reps also. We need to help these people. And actually that would mean less kids at school so win win all round and the teachers who are in school would presumably be in full health. If Ciara Kelly can stop the LC exam, maybe this time we can save lives.

hairyslug

Our 2 youngests school has given us the option to either learn through zoom or classwork to be sent home for the near future. We have said that we will re-evaluate in a few weeks but it's a weight off knowing that we can do this.

wirelessdude01

hairyslug wrote: »

Our 2 youngests school has given us the option to either learn through zoom or classwork to be sent home for the near future. We have said that we will re-evaluate in a few weeks but it's a weight off knowing that we can do this.

Where is this?

hairyslug

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Where is this?

I would prefer not to say but it is a special needs school. The Principal has organised this due to health issues with 1 child and my wife

khalessi

hairyslug wrote: »

I would prefer not to say but it is a special needs school. The Principal has organised this due to health issues with 1 child and my wife

That is great news. I saw your earlier post and hope all goes well for you and your family.

ger vallely

Mrsmum - I see what you are saying regarding the maximum use of outside space. The Nordic and Scandi preschool/early years models are fantastic. But they are heavily subsidised by their governments. They have amazing funding. Also, although they are far colder than here, it is a far different type of cold.
I work in a preschool in Galway. We try for outside time as much as is possible. Last October I will never forget. It was very very cold, quite windy and heavy rain. Even in some of the days the rain was not so heavy, the wind coming in off the Atlantic drove the rain sideways. Everything was so damp.
If we are trying for outside time, it obviously cannot be covered in. I too agree that it's not always bad weather but inappropriate clothing. Even still, days spent outside, breathing in the damp, cold air is not something I'd want for my child or myself.

Mrsmum

ger vallely wrote: »

Mrsmum - I see what you are saying regarding the maximum use of outside space. The Nordic and Scandi preschool/early years models are fantastic. But they are heavily subsidised by their governments. They have amazing funding. Also, although they are far colder than here, it is a far different type of cold.
I work in a preschool in Galway. We try for outside time as much as is possible. Last October I will never forget. It was very very cold, quite windy and heavy rain. Even in some of the days the rain was not so heavy, the wind coming in off the Atlantic drove the rain sideways. Everything was so damp.
If we are trying for outside time, it obviously cannot be covered in. I too agree that it's not always bad weather but inappropriate clothing. Even still, days spent outside, breathing in the damp, cold air is not something I'd want for my child or myself.

Ah yeah, I know, you're right. To be honest, I can't bear the cold myself although at the same time, I think, at times, it is probably healthier than hot stuffy rooms. At times ! Not on a damp dirty day.

the corpo

Sunday Sunday wrote: »

Where exactly has that come from? I haven't seen that said anywhere that all windows and doors have to be open ll the time.

The advice on ventilation is in pretty much every set of guidelines except those issued by the Department! This is the problem...

morebabies

Can I just ask those out and about, I'm asthmatic and in the last trimester of pregnancy so I've been cocooning for a while and only interacted with my husband, kids and grandparents.

What is the general feeling among parents out there about this upcoming grand opening? Are they happy to see an attempted return to normality, worried but going to send their kids back anyway or is there a significant proportion of parents not sending their kids back?

Drumpot

gabeeg wrote: »

Here's a good article on what went wrong in Israel. Some of it sounds eerily familiar.

It also details some of their ideas for plan B which comes long after a disastrous plan A.
Again, eerily familiar.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/04/world/middleeast/coronavirus-israel-schools-reopen.html

Very interesting article that you linked:

- Israeli Irish government invited the entire student body back in late May August.
- Within days, infections were reported at a Jerusalem high school, which quickly mushroomed into the largest outbreak in a single school in Israel, possibly the world.The virus rippled out to the students’ homes and then to other schools and neighborhoods, ultimately infecting hundreds of students, teachers and relatives.

Israels advice for other countries:

- “They definitely should not do what we have done,” said Eli Waxman, a professor at the Weizmann Institute of Science and chairman of the team advising Israel’s National Security Council on the pandemic. “It was a major failure.”

- Smaller classes, mask wearing, keeping desks six feet apart and providing adequate ventilation, they say, are likely to be crucial until a vaccine is available. (how much of this is happening in our schools? Certainly not in the primary schools my children are going to.)

- “If there is a low number of cases, there is an illusion that the disease is over,” - Sounds familiar

- “The mistake in Israel,” he said, “is that you can open the education system, but you have to do it gradually, with certain limits, and you have to do it in a very careful way.” Or we can open up everything and see how it does I suppose.

More information suggesting children can spread as much as adults:

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/new-research-finds-kids-just-as-likely-as-adults-to-spread-covid-19?utm_campaign=Newsletter%20%231%20%28RZD8hE%29&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Klaviyo&_ke=eyJrbF9lbWFpbCI6ICJvZHJ1bWdvb2xlQGdtYWlsLmNvbSIsICJrbF9jb21wYW55X2lkIjogIlNtYzlwRiJ9

Another great video from Dr John specifically about Children and Covid 19. Information used from Data from the CDC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSVLeEtjP-4

Netherlands

- Authorities appear to be giving message that children under 18 do not spread virus as much as adults. Zero evidence to back it up.

CDC:

- Don't know the true incidence of infection from schools (yet Netherlands government have said lower from 18 below for some reason)
- Unclear if children are as susceptible to infection compared to adults
- Unclear if they can transmit the virus as effectively as adults
- Unclear if children likely have same or higher viral loads
- Severity - Less likely in children
- 8/100,000 require hospitalization children, 164/100,000 for adults
- If they get very sick, just as likely to require intensive care as adults
- Hospital rates for children increasing
- Increase risk infants <1 , medical complexity - genetic, neurological, metabolic, obesity, diabetes, Asthma, chronic lung disease, sickle cell diseas, immunosuppression
- Higher hospitalization of Latinos/Hispanic (dr John feels Vit D a factor)
- Children complications - Respiratory failure, myocarditis, shock, acute renal failure, coagulaopathy, multi organ failure, multi system inflammatory syndorm in children (small risk)

Summary - They don't know if children spread as much as adults, there is no evidence to suggest otherwise.

Some people appear to think its OK for the authorities to lie and pretend that schools are "low risk", but I find it as a massive problem. I understand why they are doing it (because they want/need schools open), but it undermines trust in them. This is a massive breach of trust and could come back to haunt them badly if this works out bad. It could also lead to a "WHO" scenario where people do not trust the authorities or what they are saying which could make future management even harder.

The Unbearables

morebabies wrote: »

Can I just ask those out and about, I'm asthmatic and in the last trimester of pregnancy so I've been cocooning for a while and only interacted with my husband, kids and grandparents.

What is the general feeling among parents out there about this upcoming grand opening? Are they happy to see an attempted return to normality, worried but going to send their kids back anyway or is there a significant proportion of parents not sending their kids back?

Not sending mine back at all. We have decided to home school as we view the situation as farcical. I know out of my daughters class of 29 that thus far 8 aren't sending their kids back so i suppose if that's the general feeling among parents class sizes will be greatly reduced anyway.

SusanC10

morebabies wrote: »

Can I just ask those out and about, I'm asthmatic and in the last trimester of pregnancy so I've been cocooning for a while and only interacted with my husband, kids and grandparents.

What is the general feeling among parents out there about this upcoming grand opening? Are they happy to see an attempted return to normality, worried but going to send their kids back anyway or is there a significant proportion of parents not sending their kids back?

In the worried but going to send them back initially anyway with a Plan B to Homeschool.

Bright n Breezy

I'm curious to know and understand why the mooted proposals that the government going to limit numbers to houses to 6 from 3 different families and I'm sure there will be a time limit on this, but the think its ok to send 20+ children to a classroom for 6 hours... it just doesn't seem like a plausible solution to what we currently find ourselves in.

SusanC10

The Unbearables wrote: »

Not sending mine back at all. We have decided to home school as we view the situation as farcical. I know out of my daughters class of 29 that thus far 8 aren't sending their kids back so i suppose if that's the general feeling among parents class sizes will be greatly reduced anyway.

How are you doing the Homeschooling?
Are you formally withdrawing them from the School Roll ?

Loafing Oaf

gabeeg wrote: »

Here's a good article on what went wrong in Israel. Some of it sounds eerily familiar.

It also details some of their ideas for plan B which comes long after a disastrous plan A.
Again, eerily familiar.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/04/world/middleeast/coronavirus-israel-schools-reopen.html

You wonder why if they had the capacity for a much saner Plan B, they didn't go with that in the first place. My understanding is that Irish schools are reopening along the lines of their Plan A because infrastructure constrains them from doing much different

Mrsmum

morebabies wrote: »

Can I just ask those out and about, I'm asthmatic and in the last trimester of pregnancy so I've been cocooning for a while and only interacted with my husband, kids and grandparents.

What is the general feeling among parents out there about this upcoming grand opening? Are they happy to see an attempted return to normality, worried but going to send their kids back anyway or is there a significant proportion of parents not sending their kids back?

I'd say most parents have some worries to a lesser or greater degree but it's a case too of easier to swim with the current at this stage than swim against it. And also a longing for some 'normality' in life.

thegreengoblin

morebabies wrote: »

Can I just ask those out and about, I'm asthmatic and in the last trimester of pregnancy so I've been cocooning for a while and only interacted with my husband, kids and grandparents.

What is the general feeling among parents out there about this upcoming grand opening? Are they happy to see an attempted return to normality, worried but going to send their kids back anyway or is there a significant proportion of parents not sending their kids back?

I'm not worried at all, I'm happy to see the kids going back to where they need to be...among their peers. I can understand parents who have concerns because of a serious health issue within the family but in general I don't see any real worries over the kids going back. People calling for the schools to stay closed are not clued in properly or are just being selfish.

khalessi

thegreengoblin wrote: »

I'm not worried at all, I'm happy to see the kids going back to where they need to be...among their peers. I can understand parents who have concerns because of a serious health issue within the family but in general I don't see any real worries over the kids going back. People calling for the schools to stay closed are not clued in properly or are just being selfish.

Who are calling for schools to stay closed?

alroley

khalessi wrote: »

Who are calling for schools to stay closed?

The only people mentioning schools staying closed are the people who claim others are wanting it :pac:

Inquitus

I am not convinced opening the schools, especially secondary, is the wisest course of action at this point. Secondary age kids tend to catch it and spread it just as well as adults.

thegreengoblin

khalessi wrote: »

Who are calling for schools to stay closed?

I can't give you an exact number but anytime I venture onto social media I see more than I would have thought.

alroley

Inquitus wrote: »

I am not convinced opening the schools, especially secondary, is the wisest course of action at this point. Secondary age kids tend to catch it and spread it just as well as adults.

Secondary school students should be old enough to be able to do blended learning. There is usually no issue with them being left home alone during the day if parents go to work. They could do at least one day learning at home per week to reduce numbers in schools each day.