How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

the corpo

seamus wrote: »

The other alternative is that schools don't go back at all.

See, this is where I get lost. Why is it only full return or no return at all?

Just about every other country attempted a half return, in some shape or form. What's so unique about Ireland that we couldn't countenance same?

Do a phased partial return, allow the system to deal with any bumps in the road (map) as they appear and ramp the return up.

Seriously, why has Ireland been unable to facilitate a partial return unlike almost everywhere else?

Lillyfae

Murple wrote: »

“Principals had nothing to be doing for three months of the last school year”- really? That comment shows a serious lack of insight into the role and responsibilities of a principal.

But that wasn't my comment, it was half of my comment

Murple wrote: »

As for your comments about SET-
Children that would receive input from an SET would include children with dyslexia, dyscalculia, dyspraxia, speech and language disorders, Down Syndrome, ASD, anxiety, EAL, hearing or sight difficulties, EBD, ADD, ADHD, ODD and a host of other diagnoses as well as children who are just struggling to grasp literacy or numeracy concepts. Only a small proportion of these children were eligible for July Provision.
The department have stated that SET can be used as subs when necessary. The inspectorate have said they can’t be used to reduced overall pupil teacher ratio.

Do they make up the majority of the school? If the SET's are not allowed to be used to reduce overall pupil teacher ratio, then how are they being used to reduce class size numbers now?

khalessi

the corpo wrote: »

See, this is where I get lost. Why is it only full return or no return at all?

Just about every other country attempted a half return, in some shape or form. What's so unique about Ireland that we couldn't countenance same?

Do a phased partial return, allow the system to deal with any bumps in the road (map) as they appear and ramp the return up.

Seriously, why has Ireland been unable to facilitate a partial return unlike almost everywhere else?

Why is it in the guide to reopening Ireland roadmap released by the government, which suggested a phased reopening for schools under phase 5 was ignored?

lulublue22

the corpo wrote: »

See, this is where I get lost. Why is it only full return or no return at all?

Just about every other country attempted a half return, in some shape or form. What's so unique about Ireland that we couldn't countenance same?

Do a phased partial return, allow the system to deal with any bumps in the road (map) as they appear and ramp the return up.

Seriously, why has Ireland been unable to facilitate a partial return unlike almost everywhere else?

That statement is thrown out whenever concerns are raised about the back to school plan. A partial return with a view to a full return was possible but it was not considered by the gov. I think they preferred the optics of a full return.

gabeeg

Scottish schools are just starting their second week back today, and it's unsurprisingly going quite badly.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-53804140

Lillyfae

gabeeg wrote: »

Scottish schools are just starting their second week back today, and it's unsurprisingly going quite badly.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-53804140

I don't see how this is going badly. The children have been isolated without closing the school and the reproductive rate is less than 1. Of course there are going to be clusters in schools, it's how it affects the community numbers that needs to be looked at.

seamus

the corpo wrote: »

See, this is where I get lost. Why is it only full return or no return at all?

Just about every other country attempted a half return, in some shape or form. What's so unique about Ireland that we couldn't countenance same?

Do a phased partial return, allow the system to deal with any bumps in the road (map) as they appear and ramp the return up.

Seriously, why has Ireland been unable to facilitate a partial return unlike almost everywhere else?

There has been no real single approach anywhere in the world. Many countries have gone a for full reopening. Some have gone for part time. Some have gone for only bringing back some classes. It's not correct to say that "almost everywhere else" has gone for a partial return.

What makes us an outlier is being late to the game. Our schools will have been closed for nearly six months by the time they go back, which is one of the longest in the world.

A phase or partial approach means you're reintroducing school with an open-ended home-learning approach for children who've already been out of school for six months. It's not impossible, but it creates a whole raft of other problems that need to be solved.

A full return to school is the approach with the fewest problems to be ironed out and with the least likelihood of longer-term issues for children.

brendanwalsh

Lillyfae wrote: »

I don't see how this is going badly. The children have been isolated without closing the school and the reproductive rate is less than 1. Of course there are going to be clusters in schools, it's how it affects the community numbers that needs to be looked at.

What about when an at risk student or teacher dies because their school could not accommodate 2 metre social distancing ??

Every major university in the world is moving to online learning and know its unsafe to have indoor lectures and classes . Those universities have better facilities , lecture halls and ultimately social distancing possibility than any school In Ireland. Yet teachers and kids are expected to step back into the cesspool and just hope no one dies.

Varadker and Martin will have blood on their hands very soon.

mullinr2

brendanwalsh wrote: »

What about when an at risk student or teacher dies because their school could not accommodate 2 metre social distancing ??

Every major university in the world is moving to online learning and know its unsafe to have indoor lectures and classes . Those universities have better facilities , lecture halls and ultimately social distancing possibility than any school In Ireland. Yet teachers and kids are expected to step back into the cesspool and just hope no one dies.

Varadker and Martin will have blood on their hands very soon.

Get a grip man. Anyone who is not comfortable about returning because of immune issues or are in an at risk category, should stay at home. Everyone else should go to school. The last few weeks has proven it's a mild virus in healthy people. Very few deaths. The majority has sacrificed a lot for a minority

gabeeg

Lillyfae wrote: »

I don't see how this is going badly. The children have been isolated without closing the school and the reproductive rate is less than 1. Of course there are going to be clusters in schools, it's how it affects the community numbers that needs to be looked at.

It's only been one week.

And Scotland are arguably in better shape than us.

gabeeg

mullinr2 wrote: »

Get a grip man. Anyone who is not comfortable about returning because of immune issues or are in an at risk category, should stay at home. Everyone else should go to school. The last few weeks has proven it's a mild virus in healthy people. Very few deaths. The majority has sacrificed a lot for a minority

Wrong. High risk students and teachers are expected to attend.

You have to be "very high risk" to be supported

Lillyfae

brendanwalsh wrote: »

What about when an at risk student or teacher dies because their school could not accommodate 2 metre social distancing ??

Every major university in the world is moving to online learning and know its unsafe to have indoor lectures and classes . Those universities have better facilities , lecture halls and ultimately social distancing possibility than any school In Ireland. Yet teachers and kids are expected to step back into the cesspool and just hope no one dies.

Varadker and Martin will have blood on their hands very soon.

What about whataboutery?

Every major university teaches adults not children. This has carries a great advantage of being able to effectively teach online without any need for supervision. The line is "work from home where possible". Teaching in schools unfortunately isn't conducive to working from home.

If teachers/ students are at risk then they should stay at home- who's disputing that??

Boggles

seamus wrote: »

A full return to school is the approach with the fewest problems to be ironed out and with the least likelihood of longer-term issues for children.

:pac:

It will be "blended learning" by December.

We just have to go through this painful obvious cluster fúckéd loop because we are Irish.

The Hard Way.

Murple

Lillyfae wrote: »

But that wasn't my comment, it was half of my comment


Do they make up the majority of the school? If the SET's are not allowed to be used to reduce overall pupil teacher ratio, then how are they being used to reduce class size numbers now?

Okay, your full comment -“ Principals had absolutely nothing to be doing for three months of the last school year except come up with every scenario possible.“
That’s doesn’t sound any better I have to say.

I work as an SET. Last year I worked with children from 4 classes. Between the four classes I had a caseload of 22 children. 11 of them had reports so needed a high level of assistance and involvement. We were awaiting reports on 3 others when schools closed. My caseload was such that I couldn’t give the support required to all the children that needed it so another SET took other groups from the classes I was allocated. For the coming year, my caseload is 27. Again at least half are high needs.
SET are not being used to reduce class size numbers except on paper. To get a pupil teacher ratio overall in the country, the department will take the number of children in the system and divide it by the number of teachers in the system. Looks good on paper to get a smaller pupil teacher ratio but it’s far from the reality in most schools.

alroley

People are really misinformed when it comes to Covid and children and schools.

Here are some of the things I have heard from parents in the last few days...

"Children can't even get Covid. Why are teachers so scared?"
Literally hundreds of children are included in the confirmed cases figure. Probably well over 1000 as 15 - 24 is a separate category in the stats, so don't know how many of those 2,000+ cases are in children.

"Schools have cut class sizes down to half and will social distance."
That is impossible - my own secondary school and many others that I have heard from are just planning to go ahead as normal with 30 in each class and no social distancing as they just do not have the space. Primary school will have zero social distancing as said by the government.
I feel like people see the pictures from other countries with their class sizes of 10, 2m social distance, protective screens and think that's what Irish schools will be like.

"Everyone in schools will be wearing masks, so just get on with it"
Primary schools won't be. More and more secondary schools are opting for visors, not masks.

"If I kept my children at home everytime they had a cough or sniffle they'd be out half the year!"
This will be a huge problem. Some parents will 100% send their sick kids to school, and some of them will have Covid.

Blondini

seamus wrote: »

A full return to school is the approach with the fewest problems to be ironed out

Ironed out?

Like the the little minor problem of basically going against all current public health advice?

Ironed out? I would say its more of an industrual pneumatic fcucking press that is needed.

Lillyfae

alroley wrote: »

"If I kept my children at home everytime they had a cough or sniffle they'd be out half the year!"
This will be a huge problem. Some parents will 100% send their sick kids to school, and some of them will have Covid.

Parents can not and should not be allowed to do this. This has to be made clear at all levels.

seamus

Blondini wrote: »

Like the the little minor problem of basically going against all current public health advice?

NPHET approved the plan from the DES. It is incorrect to claim that the plan to reopen is against public health advice.

wirelessdude01

Lillyfae wrote: »

Parents can not and should not be allowed to do this. This has to be made clear at all levels.

Telling someone to do something and that person actually doing it can be very far apart.

This happena year after year in every school and pandemic or not those type of parents won't be for changing.

Blondini

seamus wrote: »

NPHET approved the plan from the DES. It is incorrect to claim that the plan to reopen is against public health advice.

Grand so.

P.s Wanna buy a bridge?

alroley

Lillyfae wrote: »

Parents can not and should not be allowed to do this. This has to be made clear at all levels.

Schools are not even back yet and I've seen multiple posts on boards from parents with a sick child (with symptoms such as coughs!!) saying it's definitely not Covid and they don't need to do anything about it.

My own family member was ranting in a family group chat about how ridiculous it is that children shouldn't go to school with colds and coughs this year. She will absolutely send her children into school sick.

Lillyfae

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Telling someone to do something and that person actually doing it can be very far apart.

This happena year after year in every school and pandemic or not those type of parents won't be for changing.

They have already changed. Everyone has. There has to be ZERO tolerance of it during the pandemic.

seamus

alroley wrote: »

She will absolutely send her children into school sick.

She might do it the first time, but when she gets a call 30 minutes after dropping the child off, to come back and collect them, she'll change her mind about it.

Previously schools (and other parents) tolerated kids wandering around with coughs and sniffles, "ah sure it's the season". That won't happen anymore.

Lillyfae

alroley wrote: »

Schools are not even back yet and I've seen multiple posts on boards from parents with a sick child (with symptoms such as coughs!!) saying it's definitely not Covid and they don't need to do anything about it.

My own family member was ranting in a family group chat about how ridiculous it is that children shouldn't go to school with colds and coughs this year. She will absolutely send her children into school sick.

Shame on them! Call them out on it, that's extremely reckless behaviour.

I think most of those posters were specifically talking about testing though. To be honest, if my kids have sniffles or whatever this year I'll be keeping them at home for a few weeks but I won't be getting them tested unless there's a very good reason to.

ginoginelli

alroley wrote: »

People are really misinformed when it comes to Covid and children and schools.

Here are some of the things I have heard from parents in the last few days...

"Children can't even get Covid. Why are teachers so scared?"
Literally hundreds of children are included in the confirmed cases figure. Probably well over 1000 as 15 - 24 is a separate category in the stats, so don't know how many of those 2,000+ cases are in children.

"Schools have cut class sizes down to half and will social distance."
That is impossible - my own secondary school and many others that I have heard from are just planning to go ahead as normal with 30 in each class and no social distancing as they just do not have the space. Primary school will have zero social distancing as said by the government.
I feel like people see the pictures from other countries with their class sizes of 10, 2m social distance, protective screens and think that's what Irish schools will be like.

"Everyone in schools will be wearing masks, so just get on with it"
Primary schools won't be. More and more secondary schools are opting for visors, not masks.

"If I kept my children at home everytime they had a cough or sniffle they'd be out half the year!"
This will be a huge problem. Some parents will 100% send their sick kids to school, and some of them will have Covid.

This is down to a sneaky 'pro back to school' agenda disseminated from the government and media. A lot of people still dont follow the subject too closely, and just watch a bit of news every day, and check the odd headline. Through this heavily biased lens many are misled into believing these things.

wirelessdude01

Lillyfae wrote: »

They have already changed. Everyone has. There has to be ZERO tolerance of it during the pandemic.

Schools have ZERO ability to enforce anything. They are all just recommendations.

Take the 14 day quarantine rubbish if abroad in a non green list country. A principal I know sought clarification from the department with regards to this. Department said under no circumstances can a school a child that has been abroad within 14 days. Told it is up to the family to be responsible 🙄

alroley

ginoginelli wrote: »

This is down to a sneaky 'pro back to school' agenda disseminated from the government and media. A lot of people still dont follow the subject too closely, and just watch a bit of news every day, and check the odd headline. Through this heavily biased lens many are misled into believing these things.

I saw an article from an Irish magazine this morning saying how in schools teachers will be wearing full PPE and children will be socially distanced at all times. It's not even a little bit true but people are being led to believe that their children will be protected from Covid in schools.

lulublue22

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Schools have ZERO ability to enforce anything. They are all just recommendations.

Take the 14 day quarantine rubbish if abroad in a non green list country. A principal I know sought clarification from the department with regards to this. Department said under no circumstances can a school a child that has been abroad within 14 days. Told it is up to the family to be responsible ��

That’s another are where schools will caught. There is a post on the will you travel thread in which the poster specifically states that not alone will they travel but they have no intention of keeping their child out of school for 2 wks when they return. :rolleyes: Parents not being available to collect ill children will also be problematic - child will need to be isolated and staff needed to supervise. No more sitting down the back with the head on a cushion waiting for collection.

Boggles

seamus wrote: »

NPHET approved the plan from the DES. It is incorrect to claim that the plan to reopen is against public health advice.

Have NPHET publicly and officially approved the "plan"?

Any time they have been asked from what I saw, they pawned it off saying they were waiting on the report from the ECDC.

wirelessdude01

Let this sink in for everyone.

20% of primary school children in Ireland are in classes of 30+, yes 30+.