How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

Newbienoob

pwurple wrote: »

It's not particularly shocking that parents want their children educated surely. The harm long term lack of education does to a generation is what worries me, especially with the inequality it brings. Huge difference between an only child home with a laptop, broadband and a motivated parent, and a child on the kitchen floor with no broadband, 5 elder siblings and parent (s) out working on the front line. All those efforts to make our society more equal opportunity might as well be flushed down the toilet unless they get back into the schools.

What is absolutely shocking is that the concept of people dying or left with longterm complications from covid means nothing compared to educating "my child". Get my child to school I don't care who gets sick.

I don't get how so many parents are now working from home as it's unsafe to go in, but teachers must go in for the good of our society. It's unprecedented times, it's not okay to make someomes life more important than anothers. Only when parents are personally affected will there be uproar IMO.

People don't understand the longterm effects of this virus either. It's a truly horrific ordeal and I really wouldn't wish it upon anyone.

It's like we know a tsunami is coming and the government decides well we will give people boats because no we cannot evacuate because if we evacuate people will have to upheave their lives and our society will be ruined. Sure look ,some will be okay with a boat...new studies show boats are great in an ole tsunami.

SeaBreezes

meeeeh wrote: »

And the mortality rate among children? Yes kids catch and transmit the disease but they are at a low risk to die from it. UN put out a warning that decades of progress could be lost and inequality increased if kids can't get back to school. That's a lot more real risk to kids.

12 kids dead in arizona from it.

SusieBlue

My goddaughter had an induction day last week in preparation for her return to school at the end of the month, to explain all the new procedures and rules to them so they would understand how things will be happening when they go back.

For the induction, there was staggered entry times, a one way system around the school and hand sanitiser in every room.
All students sat 1m apart, all wore masks and the teachers giving the speeches all had masks and visors.

When the talk was finished, they all left at staggered intervals.... Where they waited outside the school for their pals to come out. Masks off.
Then they all congregated in their little friend groups, some went into town for a milkshake, some went to the park, or back to each other’s houses to hang out for awhile.
No masks. No real social distancing to speak of.
Not big gangs of irresponsible reckless teens, but little groups of 4/5 kids enjoying each other’s company, as kids do.

We are spending a fortune investing in infrastructure and procedures to protect these kids, but it’s completely pointless when they’re all going to hang around together in pretty close contact outside of school.

I saw a group of young ones get off the bus over the weekend where they had all been seated socially distanced, only to swarm into a close little group when they got off the bus.
And yet I read the other day that we’re investing millions into a socially distanced school bus system, when they’re all just going to congregate together when they get off the bus anyway?

I do agree some procedures are necessary but I can’t help but think it’s a fruitless endeavour when the schools can’t control who the kids are coming into close contact with outside of school hours.
And again, this isn’t scumbag yob behaviour, this is kids doing what adults have also been doing for the last 2 months.
Meeting up with close friends in small groups.

I see lots of parents saying their kids are still pretty much isolated and still don’t have contact with their friends, and I think these kids are going to be so desperate for contact with their peers by the time September rolls around that they’re going to forget to stay 1m apart when they aren’t being supervised.
It’s only natural, they won’t be able to help it.

They have missed out on more than enough education & socialisation as it is.
If they don’t go back, this is going to have a knock on effect on every other industry because parents won’t be able to get childcare & will end up out of work because of it.
Masks/visors, distanced desks, hand sanitiser and staggered start/finish times are excellent ideas and are a reasonable requirement to ask of our young people.

But outdoor marquee ‘pods’, video link teaching, installing hundreds of thousands of euro worth of extra toilets and investing 50 odd million on a socially distanced school bus?
That’s overreaching, overzealous and a massive waste of tax payers money in my opinion.

brendanwalsh

This is a disaster guys.
I’m getting very scared and fearful for myself and my family.

This approach is basically just smoke and mirrors and trying to pretend covid doesn’t exist in schools.

gnf_ireland

Newbienoob wrote: »

What is absolutely shocking is that the concept of people dying or left with longterm complications from covid means nothing compared to educating "my child". Get my child to school I don't care who gets sick.

I don't get how so many parents are now working from home as it's unsafe to go in, but teachers must go in for the good of our society. It's unprecedented times, it's not okay to make someomes life more important than anothers. Only when parents are personally affected will there be uproar IMO.

People don't understand the longterm effects of this virus either. It's a truly horrific ordeal and I really wouldn't wish it upon anyone.

It's like we know a tsunami is coming and the government decides well we will give people boats because no we cannot evacuate because if we evacuate people will have to upheave their lives and our society will be ruined. Sure look ,some will be okay with a boat...new studies show boats are great in an ole tsunami.

To be honest, I genuinely hope that teachers don't go striking if this is the argument they are going to put forward. Teachers talk about teacher bashing; I can honestly say that the amount of parent bashing on this thread is astounding - and this one of the lighter versions of it.

Parents are not looking to "throw teachers to the wolves". I assume teachers understand that parents do fully understand that if covid arrives into a classroom, their child is as likely to catch it as the teacher - probably more so. This means they bring it home into the family house and potentially to all their social contacts. The child's family is equally susceptible to this virus as the teachers. So the "office worker working from home" is probably as likely to catch it as the teacher is - given I don't know too many families that socially distance in a home environment.

And yes, cases will rise as soon as things open up more. This is inevitable. It is about carefully managing the community transmission and reacting to it quickly and decisively when it is at risk.

The reason most parents what their children to go back to school, after 5 months of not being there, is they need to be educated, need social interaction with their peers and for the associated mental health benefits.

The frustration on the parents side is this has being going on for 5 months, and the only option presented to us is the children are going back to school full time in two weeks time. Its the only show in town. We have not been given any sort of alternative or choice, or any sort of plan for when the class will have to isolate in the next few months because a child has a cough/temperature etc. And this is not directed at teachers - its directed at those who run schools.

gnf_ireland

brendanwalsh wrote: »

This is a disaster guys.
I’m getting very scared and fearful for myself and my family.

This approach is basically just smoke and mirrors and trying to pretend covid doesn’t exist in schools.

And just to be 100% clear, the child's family is equally at risk as the teachers one. This is not a teacher only issue - this impacts the children and their families just as much.

gnf_ireland

i_surge wrote: »

I'm quite shocked to hear it going ahead with 1m distance not even possible and no reduction of numbers and a mixed bag of mask policies. The only way I know about it is from this place.

If the schools want support from the parents, why have the schools not issued the size of each classroom, the number of students in it and the plan for the room, showing the distance between each desk/set of desks? Its simply factual information that parents should be aware of, and its very hard to argue with it

Then parents may be able to evaluate the environment the child is expected to return to, and apply additional pressures on the school board of management/public representatives to do something about it

What parents have been told so far is - students will be one meter apart, classrooms are small and some overcrowded, but funding has been made available to support this. Parents don't know what the funding will mean on the ground, and what the each school is going to do (use the hall if they have one for the largest class) etc. Lots of parents are still in the dark, and the only detail they have is from the media reports.

Years of schools wanting to keep parents at arm's distance has created the situation where they are not informed or involved (other than to fund raise), so its impossible for schools to expect their support when they are not made aware of the details.

Mrsmum

I've been thinking about parents who are terrified about sending their children back to school and then again about parents who even though they are not blase about health, need schools open so they can work to meet their mortgage or rent demands. I was thinking would it be any use to make September a Well-Being month at school with no educational value at all. So some parents may then feel more comfortable keeping the kids at home for the month seeing as the child's class wouldn't be progressing with school work without them and they could watch the experiment of schools opening, any spikes/clusters etc. And for the children who are going to school, they would have less children in their class, they would learn all kinds of well being life skills and they would be doing what their family need them to do. Other children might do half and half, easing them in gently and at a level their parents are comfortable with. Any use ?
edit, when I say no educational value, I just mean no learning, Irish, English, Maths etc.

Purplewaters

Pretty sure parents generally have seen their kids classrooms before and know the size fo the class so they already have an idea of how safe it will be. The comment about teens mixing is like saying oh sure households are mixing when people go home anyway so why distance at work in any job. The schools have been underfunded anyway so better toilets etc have been required in most for years. Other places of work and places the public use would have been updated long ago. The funding is mahority cleaning money and supervision money so this was money that the dept should probably have always been spending but managed to avoid. Also I thought the buses are all squashed in anyway? The amount being spent is minimal in my opinion for the scale of how many schools there are. Much more is being spent on small business grants and even grants for businesses to adapt to the current guidelines.

Purplewaters

Mrsmum wrote: »

I've been thinking about parents who are terrified about sending their children back to school and then again about parents who even though they are not blase about health, need schools open so they can work to meet their mortgage or rent demands. I was thinking would it be any use to make September a Well-Being month at school with no educational value at all. So some parents may then feel more comfortable keeping the kids at home for the month seeing as the child's class wouldn't be progressing with school work without them and they could watch the experiment of schools opening, any spikes/clusters etc. And for the children who are going to school, they would have less children in their class, they would learn all kinds of well being life skills and they would be doing what their family need them to do. Other children might do half and half, easing them in gently and at a level their parents are comfortable with. Any use ?

If education is the reason that they're back then really it will have to be a lot of academics to catch up, especially for kids who did no work during the closure. When people say 5 months they're also forgetting that 2 months were summer and 2 weeks easter. So it's 3 months max and that isn't factoring in kther school closures thar would have already happened lile bank Holidays etc. So not 3 months of full schooling were missed. 5 months may sound better but it ignores the fact they would never have been im for 2 and a half months of this time anyway. I find it mad that if an office opened like a school it would be shut down for breach of the guidelines.

gnf_ireland

Purplewaters wrote: »

Pretty sure parents generally have seen their kids classrooms before and know the size fo the class so they already have an idea of how safe it will be. The comment about teens mixing is like saying oh sure households are mixing when people go home anyway so why distance at work in any job. The schools have been underfunded anyway so better toilets etc have been required in most for years. Other places of work and places the public use would have been updated long ago. The funding is mahority cleaning money and supervision money so this was money that the dept should probably have always been spending but managed to avoid. Also I thought the buses are all squashed in anyway? The amount being spent is minimal in my opinion for the scale of how many schools there are. Much more is being spent on small business grants and even grants for businesses to adapt to the current guidelines.

All the comments above are subjective. When making a complaint, facts are required to be presented. We are not talking about Joe Duffy here and feelings - we are talking about categorically stating that the public health guidelines are not being followed. Evidence is needed before this will be taken seriously.

Regarding funding on school infrastructure over the decades - I don't think anyone would disagree with you on this. However, part of the issue here is the government don't own most of the schools. The church do. They church want all the control of the school but none of the costs associated with it. Its like a tenant upgrading a landlords home. This crises has highlighted some of the major limitations within the wider education system in Ireland and its well time for a complete overhaul of the set-up.

facehugger99

The on-thread hysteria seems to move in the opposite direction to the plummeting death rates.

wirelessdude01

SusieBlue wrote: »

My
And yet I read the other day that we’re investing millions into a socially distanced school bus system, when they’re all just going to congregate together when they get off the bus anyway?

Now I know you are trolling. Source for this as the reality is that the school bus system will be as it currently is. The children are meant to sit beside the same person, in their allocated seat twice a day but we all know they won't be doing this.

Sunday Sunday

Mrsmum wrote: »

I was thinking would it be any use to make September a Well-Being month at school with no educational value at all.

That would be great, brilliant idea and would be welcomed. Mental health effects of all of this are coming home to roost and will cause more heartbreak and tragedy.

It's shocking, we were in a bad way before but now the supports are severely strained and we have children developing mental health problems because of the whole situation.

It would be so valuable to at least try to teach them some coping mechanisms that they can carry through life. I fear the resources would be scarce to implement it but I think its a good idea.

SusieBlue

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Now I know you are trolling. Source for this as the reality is that the school bus system will be as it currently is. The children are meant to sit beside the same person, in their allocated seat twice a day but we all know they won't be doing this.

Now you know I’m trolling? This is my first post on the thread, cool the jets with the hysteria.
A commentator I heard on the radio read out an opinion piece that said there was talks of investing upwards of a million euro on a socially distanced bus scheme so students didn’t have to sit next to each other if they weren’t in the same class at school, and in order to do this, the government would have to make a huge investment by providing more busses, drivers, and supervisors to accommodate said extra space needed.

downthemiddle

SusieBlue wrote: »

Now you know I’m trolling? This is my first post on the thread, cool the jets with the hysteria.
A commentator I heard on the radio read out an opinion piece that said there was talks of investing upwards of a million euro on a socially distanced bus scheme so students didn’t have to sit next to each other if they weren’t in the same class at school, and in order to do this, the government would have to make a huge investment by providing more busses, drivers, and supervisors to accommodate said extra space needed.

What they actually said was that school buses are magical places that generate immunity to Covid and no further investment is required.

Stateofyou

Purplewaters wrote: »

Pretty sure parents generally have seen their kids classrooms before and know the size fo the class so they already have an idea of how safe it will be. The comment about teens mixing is like saying oh sure households are mixing when people go home anyway so why distance at work in any job. The schools have been underfunded anyway so better toilets etc have been required in most for years. Other places of work and places the public use would have been updated long ago. The funding is mahority cleaning money and supervision money so this was money that the dept should probably have always been spending but managed to avoid. Also I thought the buses are all squashed in anyway? The amount being spent is minimal in my opinion for the scale of how many schools there are. Much more is being spent on small business grants and even grants for businesses to adapt to the current guidelines.

Just a comment on this, my kids are going into different classrooms now, and presumably, the school has been making plans and shifting things around, removing furniture, etc. So I have no idea what any new rooms look like or what it could look like without the "clutter." Agreed with all the rest of post!

Bright n Breezy

Buses are going to be just giant incubators on wheels. Doesn't the bus driver have enough to be doing by driving the said bus, who is going to supervising that "Johnny" and "Mary" are in the correct seats, who will supervise the wearing of the mask.

There is an awful lot being expected of children who have yet to reach maturity especially when amongst their peers

gnf_ireland

Stateofyou wrote: »

Just a comment on this, my kids are going into different classrooms now, and presumably, the school has been making plans and shifting things around, removing furniture, etc. So I have no idea what any new rooms look like or what it could look like without the "clutter." Agreed with all the rest of post!

Just to add to this, one can only assume that classrooms will be allocated (at a primary level at least) based on class size and classroom size, so the biggest class will get the biggest classroom etc - and not on the fact that Teacher A has always been in that room so should remain there.

But until schools start communicating with parents and telling them how it is going to work, parents are in the dark. I am sure some schools have, but lots of schools have not yet (for whatever reason)

lulublue22

Bright n Breezy wrote: »

Buses are going to be just giant incubators on wheels. Doesn't the bus driver have enough to be doing by driving the said bus, who is going to supervising that "Johnny" and "Mary" are in the correct seats, who will supervise the wearing of the mask.

There is an awful lot being expected of children who have yet to reach maturity especially when amongst their peers

School busses will be a big issue - ours are already full to capacity. There will be no SD on school busses despite the strict adherence to SD on public transport. School busses full - wear a mask and sit next to the same person be grand.

SusanC10

lulublue22 wrote: »

School busses will be a big issue - ours are already full to capacity. There will be no SD on school busses despite the strict adherence to SD on public transport. School busses full - wear a mask and sit next to the same person be grand.

We have decided not to send our Kids on the School Bus this year.

khalessi

talking about issue on ryan tubridy show

byhookorbycrook

Frightening to read how side effects in young elite athletes- just because Covid may not kill young people , it’s worth reading this article :
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/dont-just-look-at-covid-19-fatality-rates-look-at-people-who-survive--but-dont-entirely-recover/2020/08/14/3b3de170-de6a-11ea-8051-d5f887d73381_story.html

wirelessdude01

khalessi wrote: »

talking about issue on ryan tubridy show

Issues with school or just bus transportation?

khalessi

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Issues with school or just bus transportation?

the pandemic, schools,

lulublue22

gnf_ireland wrote: »

Just to add to this, one can only assume that classrooms will be allocated (at a primary level at least) based on class size and classroom size, so the biggest class will get the biggest classroom etc - and not on the fact that Teacher A has always been in that room so should remain there.

But until schools start communicating with parents and telling them how it is going to work, parents are in the dark. I am sure some schools have, but lots of schools have not yet (for whatever reason)

Class allocation on class size will make zero difference in our place - class numbers are practically the same and room size are uniform. However I love the shift to schools should do this - some have some haven’t etc bringing all responsibility back on to schools. Any parent who has attended an open night , school play or parent teacher meetings should have a fair idea of the layout of their child’s school. If parents have read the guidelines then they should know what is being proposed. If as a parent you are happy for your child to return to school under the current guidelines fair enough. If you are insure or unhappy re same then you need to vocalise that. It’s time for parents to be proactive rather than sit back and wait for the school. This plan was released 4 weeks before the proposed return to school. Most principals are working flat out trying to implement the guidelines - I’ve had 5 emails already this am. Normal issues re return to school haven’t stopped just because of covid.

khalessi

Ryan reckon schools will be topic of week

wirelessdude01

khalessi wrote: »

Ryan reckon schools will be topic of week

The man is an absolute genius.

lulublue22

SusanC10 wrote: »

We have decided not to send our Kids on the School Bus this year.

I think that’s the only decision if you have alternative means if transport. Looking at the condition of some of our busses and the lack of SD I wouldn’t be happy having a child on a school bus.

The Unbearables

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Frightening to read how side effects in young elite athletes- just because Covid may not kill young people , it’s worth reading this article :
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/dont-just-look-at-covid-19-fatality-rates-look-at-people-who-survive--but-dont-entirely-recover/2020/08/14/3b3de170-de6a-11ea-8051-d5f887d73381_story.html

We have a tsunami of health issues coming down the tracks due to this virus imo.