How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

wirelessdude01

Deeec wrote: »

If DES implemented a standard approach you wouldnt have to deal with this messing of people wanting what suits them. Probably the ones wanting zoom didnt even bother attending when you facilitated it!

Im all for remote learning during this time but it needs to be kept as simple as possible so less people can look for reasons not to participate.

Describe what you want?

Deeec

Wirless Dude I did post earlier on what I think would work. See below

Deeec wrote: »

Why did remote learning not work?


It didnt work because it was made too complicated for both teachers and households. It was expected that kids would work independently which doesnt work at primary level - my kids needed my help with all their work. Some video tutorials from teachers would have helped us hugely. I think all issues can be dealt with. The plan needs to be kept simple. My kids are only primary level so I cant speak for Secondary schools. Some thoughts I would have:

-
- Max 3 hrs work per day - Households cant manage a full school days work - it is too long when parents are also expected to work from home
- Stick with core subjects only - my kids were expected to do religion homework which was unneccessary.
- Tutorials dont have to be live - they can be prerecorded by teachers and viewed by kids when convenient. This would help working parents and teachers who have children of their own. A few tutorials a week would help greatly.
- A certain amount of work should be sent back to teachers for correction and feedback communicated to parents
- Teachers to be contactable by phone/email for a certain number of hours per week
- Schools should be open for a certain amount of hours per week for children who dont have access to technology/ broadband to collect work or view tutorials. Timeslots for these children must be prebooked and children must be accompanied by a parent for the duration.
- Parents, kids and teachers need to be made aware of what is expected of them.

wirelessdude01

Deeec wrote: »

Wirless Dude I did post earlier on what I think would work. See below

Sorry I hadn't seen that.

Sounds workable from a primary level perspective. Teachers should be available via their online portal f choice and email during school hours only. There has to be a balance for everyone.
As an aside what teacher was giving religious homework!!!

Jinglejangle69

JDD wrote: »

Hardly surprising. A big family gathering, with lots of adults and older relatives who haven't gotten together in six months. Probably lots of hugging and sitting close together.

If you saying that is clear that children are the main reason the virus spread in Donegal, I'm not sure communion/confirmation gatherings are the one to hang your hat on. From my own experience, a communion gathering has way more adults than children. After all, all the children's friends have also made their communion that day and are having their own family parties. So apart from a few cousins that might be there, it tends to be way more adults than children.

A big gathering, an indoor restaurant or house, alcohol, family who might not have met up in a while, no wonder it spread like wildfire. I'm not saying it isn't possible the kids didn't spread it too, but it's much more likely it was the adults.

No I posted it in response to people here blaming the schools for the surge.

wirelessdude01

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

No I posted it in response to people here blaming the schools for the surge.

Well as a teacher I don't openly blame schools for the surge in numbers. What the return to school did was lead to people dropping their guard as they felt things had returned to 'normal'. Also it hugely increased the amount of social interactions. Parents, grandparents going for coffee after the school drop offs. People who might have been keeping their social circles small feeling obliged to accept the playdate invitations.

Schools in themselves are not solely to blame but are part of the wider chain of events which has resulted in what has happened.

Jinglejangle69

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Well as a teacher I don't openly blame schools for the surge in numbers. What the return to school did was lead to people dropping their guard as they felt things had returned to 'normal'. Also it hugely increased the amount of social interactions. Parents, grandparents going for coffee after the school drop offs. People who might have been keeping their social circles small feeling obliged to accept the playdate invitations.

Schools in themselves are not solely to blame but are part of the wider chain of events which has resulted in what has happened.

Of course.

As was opening pubs restaurants, communions gyms etc etc.

But some people are hell bent on blaming the opening of schools only.

JDD

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Well as a teacher I don't openly blame schools for the surge in numbers. What the return to school did was lead to people dropping their guard as they felt things had returned to 'normal'. Also it hugely increased the amount of social interactions. Parents, grandparents going for coffee after the school drop offs. People who might have been keeping their social circles small feeling obliged to accept the playdate invitations.

Schools in themselves are solely to blame but are part of the wider chain of events.

You're not way off the mark here I expect. While I don't think my social interactions have increased since my own kids went back (they had playdates indoors in July and August and I met up with friends), I certainly could see how going for coffee with another parent after the drop off, or having the time to meet up with someone at lunchtime during the week would end up with some people increasing their interactions.

As for feeling that things are more normal and maybe dropping our guard, I think that was going to be inevitable as time went on, whether or not schools went back.

wirelessdude01

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Of course.

As was opening pubs restaurants, communions gyms etc etc.

But some people are hell bent on blaming the opening of schools only.

I don't see that on here. They are part of the problem. Personally believe they will become a far bigger part of the issue as we creep into winter.

Where we aportion blame is to the lack of a plan B from the Dept/Govt. Head totally deep in the sand. There has been inschool transmission. You have some on here who will vehemently deny that. Some form of blended educational experience should have formed part of the wider plan. Very high teachers who aren't allowed into school but are well able to work from home could/should have been matched with very high risk children. Not this nonsense of expecting SET to triple job in some instances with their own workload, the very high risk children and also sometimes having to sub in mainstream classes.

HerrKuehn

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Well as a teacher I don't openly blame schools for the surge in numbers. What the return to school did was lead to people dropping their guard as they felt things had returned to 'normal'. Also it hugely increased the amount of social interactions. Parents, grandparents going for coffee after the school drop offs. People who might have been keeping their social circles small feeling obliged to accept the playdate invitations.

Schools in themselves are not solely to blame but are part of the wider chain of events which has resulted in what has happened.

There was a low of 49 cases per week in early July. On August 15th, long before the schools were back, we had 200 cases in a single day. The trend was for increasing numbers of cases way before schools reopened. So, what we are seeing now is certainly not as a result of schools opening. It will of course contribute to the numbers.

wirelessdude01

HerrKuehn wrote: »

There was a low of 49 cases per week in early July. On August 15th, long before the schools were back, we had 200 cases in a single day. The trend was for increasing numbers of cases way before schools reopened. So, what we are seeing now is certainly not as a result of schools opening. It will of course contribute to the numbers.

If I remember right there were a few days where cases were out of whack due to meatplants and the like.

Now without going looking at figures as I'm on my phone, I think roughly since Sept 11th/12th cases haven't gone below 200 and have been steadily on an upward trajectory on the rolling count which is what they look at now. Fits in with the return to school period. Not a cause in itself but part of a chain.

HerrKuehn

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

If I remember right there were a few days where cases were out of whack due to meatplants and the like.

Now without going looking at figures as I'm on my phone, I think roughly since Sept 11th/12th cases haven't gone below 200 and have been steadily on an upward trajectory on the rolling count which is what they look at now. Fits in with the return to school period. Not a cause in itself but part of a chain.

I am trying to find the graphic the irishtimes had last week, it showed the number of weekly cases, per county and in total. When looking at the weekly cases, there was a steady progression from early July.

wirelessdude01

For the past 6 weeks the numbers of cases in the 0-14 have gone as follows....78, 86, 92, 126, 212, 194.

irishblessing

Deeec wrote: »

This is why live online contact doesnt work. Parents also have to attend online meetings for work which may have clashed with kids zoom meetings. Pre recorded would work better for everyone.

So I know for my family and friends in the US, they had a makeshift online system early on but let things slide also as people were suddenly trying to cope with lockdown and working from home.

Now however if students are not present in the live classroom every day, it is counted as an unexcused absence in their school system so it's quite serious. Allowances are made for IT issues and support is available to help work through it. Live online classes seems to work great for the most part. One of my family members recently told me she thinks it's better in some ways as the 'class clowns' or unmannered children who were constantly interrupting the learning throughout the day isn't an issue anymore.

Thierry12

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

For the past 6 weeks the numbers of cases in the 0-14 have gone as follows....78, 86, 92, 126, 212, 194.

How many tests?

wirelessdude01

Thierry12 wrote: »

How many tests?

Not enough. Close contact criteria is too narrow when it comes to primary school children. I'd be pretty confident there are plenty of asymptomatic children floating around our primary schools. The school in Celbridge is a good case in point. Whole class grouping testing turned up a fair few cases in both kids and staff. School still closed as far as I'm aware

Mrsmum

Mrsmum wrote: »

My children have been told to bring coats and wear them all day long.

Coats can be bulky so if they are young enough to be convinced to wear thermals underneath, they work well. Thermals selling out in shops and online.

deliege

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

That list isn't in anyway comprehensive. I am aware of schools with cases that aren't on it.

The admins rely on people sending them copies of the texts from school or the HSE letters.

According to data so far, 410 kids tested positive in the age range 5-14yrs old since 31/08. And 1051 in the 15-24yrs old range.

https://covid19ireland-geohive.hub.arcgis.com/datasets/d8eb52d56273413b84b0187a4e9117be_0/data?geometry=-7.856%2C53.270%2C-7.529%2C53.306

JDD

Have schools contributed to the ongoing rise in cases? Yes. They must have, like any other sector of society where restrictions have been lifted.

Is the increase in positive tests between August and now as a result of the infection taking more hold in the community, or was it always there and we are just finding more of it now because we are testing more people? Well, a bit of both I expect. I don't have the numbers, but presumably we are finding more presymptomatic/asymptomatic people now than we were in June/July, especially with the regular testing of meat plants and health care workers. Perhaps more people are presenting themselves for tests since they downloaded the covid app? But I would say this only accounts for a small amount of the increase. The number of positive tests as a proportion of tests done has been steadily increasing, from 1% in early August to 2.4% now. That leads me to believe it is steadily increasing with or without testing numbers increasing.

Has there been a disproportionate increase in the level of cases as a result of the lack of social distancing and full classes in schools? Very very difficult to know for sure. Covid cases increase exponentially, and it doesn't - to me - seem that there has been an explosion of cases last week as a result of packed classrooms. It seems to me that the cases have increased at the same rate as they were increasing in August, or maybe just slightly more. And how can you say that it is schools, and not just the general malaise that has set in in the public at large?

deliege

JDD wrote: »

Is the increase in positive tests between August and now as a result of the infection taking more hold in the community, or was it always there and we are just finding more of it now because we are testing more people? Well, a bit of both I expect. I don't have the numbers, but presumably we are finding more presymptomatic/asymptomatic people now than we were in June/July, especially with the regular testing of meat plants and health care workers. Perhaps more people are presenting themselves for tests since they downloaded the covid app? But I would say this only accounts for a small amount of the increase. The number of positive tests as a proportion of tests done has been steadily increasing, from 1% in early August to 2.4% now. That leads me to believe it is steadily increasing with or without testing numbers increasing.

(...)

Good question indeed. In statistic data for France, it is possible to`find the percentage of positive tests per age class - and get a better feeling for that looking at evolution vs time. I have not found that information for Ireland (so far), only the global positive rate...

Queried

If a child in a class is awaiting a covid test, should anyone bar the household restrict movements?

JDD

Queried wrote: »

If a child in a class is awaiting a covid test, should anyone bar the household restrict movements?

According to the guidelines issued by the HSE, the child awaiting the test should restrict their movements and not attend school. However the sibling of the child awaiting the test result can attend school (and presumable don't absolutely need to restrict their movements outside of that, though it would be prudent to do so).

I'm guessing their reasoning is the vast vast majority of tests on children are negative. Therefore the risk of having a massive amount of school days missed by siblings on top of the days they will miss anyway because of normal colds and coughs this year is not worth the prevention of a very small chance of the test being positive AND the sibling also testing positive AND the sibling being infectious that particular day that they are awaiting the test result.

selectamatic

Siblings stay off school too until results come back.

It's number 3 on the hse 10 point isolation quick guide

SusanC10

JDD wrote: »

According to the guidelines issued by the HSE, the child awaiting the test should restrict their movements and not attend school. However the sibling of the child awaiting the test result can attend school (and presumable don't absolutely need to restrict their movements outside of that, though it would be prudent to do so).

My understanding is that IF the child awaiting the test is showing symptoms, then the whole household restricts movements.

r93kaey5p2izun

JDD wrote: »

According to the guidelines issued by the HSE, the child awaiting the test should restrict their movements and not attend school. However the sibling of the child awaiting the test result can attend school (and presumable don't absolutely need to restrict their movements outside of that, though it would be prudent to do so).

I'm guessing their reasoning is the vast vast majority of tests on children are negative. Therefore the risk of having a massive amount of school days missed by siblings on top of the days they will miss anyway because of normal colds and coughs this year is not worth the prevention of a very small chance of the test being positive AND the sibling also testing positive AND the sibling being infectious that particular day that they are awaiting the test result.

The sibling can only go to school if the child is awaiting test as a close contact. All household members of someone awaiting a test for symptoms must restrict movements.

JDD

Oh interesting. I didn't know that. That seems eminently sensible.

Queried

Thanks. A pupil in my class is awaiting a test and a bit nervous about seeing people. This is probably going to be a very common occurrence over the coming months.

For the next two weeks, all third level and higher education institutions are being asked to deliver the bulk of tuition remotely.
https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2020/0925/1167512-universities-online-ireland/

jadie

Balagan1 wrote: »

For the next two weeks, all third level and higher education institutions are being asked to deliver the bulk of tuition remotely.
https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2020/0925/1167512-universities-online-ireland/

All their libraries remain open however with study spaces for 100-300 in some cases.

The_Brood

Balagan1 wrote: »

For the next two weeks, all third level and higher education institutions are being asked to deliver the bulk of tuition remotely.
https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2020/0925/1167512-universities-online-ireland/

And to quote Harris, because it is "absolutely necessary if we are to stop the spread of this virus."

.....yet schools are completely free to continue staying open despite the large spike in virus cases aligning exactly with their opening.....??

Like is there anyone to ask questions of the government, is there anyone challenging them at all, or have we just resigned to being ruled by a delusional cult?

...Ghost...

Inquitus wrote: »

My wife works in a creche, they are far worse, 3-4yos don't understand social distancing, parents need them minded and send them in sick. Creche workers are at more of a risk than teachers imho, along with the young 3-4yo children they educate

Much lower adult to child ratio in a creche. Parents are sending in sick kids too at primary and post primary level. My 9 year old was sent home with a cough. A cough he frequently has due to asthma after scooting to school like a stunt racer. Some cop on is needed too amongst all the caution.

Thierry12 wrote: »

If the teachers teached perhaps it would.

Amount of homework mine get they might as well be called correcters

Sounds like a couple of lazy teachers, or a rubbish school in general. Have you brought this up with the school?`

My OH is a secondary Teacher. She's up at 5:30 doing corrections and preparing class. She's teaching from 9-3:30/4pm and she spends at least an hour in the evening prepping for the next day.