How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

appledrop

So the minster goes for a test + whole cabinet run + hide even though only a test + not positive.



Meanwhile in schools students actually testing POSITIVE + yet in some cases recommendations is only to close 'pod' which is actually just a table in room with say 20 other kids so all at risk.

An absolutely s&&t show is all it is.

By the way I'm totally in favour of schools staying open but clarification needed on what happens when positive test/ self isolation needed.

khalessi

appledrop wrote: »

So the minster goes for a test + whole cabinet run + hide even though only a test + not positive.



Meanwhile in schools students actually testing POSITIVE + yet in some cases recommendations is only to close 'pod' which is actually just a table in room with say 20 other kids so all at risk



An absolutely s&&t show is all it us.

Students testing positive, teachers not being told. Agree its a sh*t show

screamer

appledrop wrote: »

So the minster goes for a test + whole cabinet run + hide even though only a test + not positive.



Meanwhile in schools students actually testing POSITIVE + yet in some cases recommendations is only to close 'pod' which is actually just a table in room with say 20 other kids so all at risk.

An absolutely s&&t show is all it is.

By the way I'm totally in favour of schools staying open but clarification needed on what happens when positive test/ self isolation needed.

Animal farm again and again. Aren’t our politicians a precious bunch of money wasting, self entitled elites. Meanwhile, our kids and their teachers can feck off.

Will Yam

downthemiddle wrote: »

The first case was confirmed on September 1st so that is the rate of infection for two weeks.

It’s still 2.5%.

And that’s to overstate it because it includes schools who had a case on sept 1st and nothing since.

khalessi

khalessi wrote: »

Students testing positive, teachers not being told. Agree its a sh*t show

If only there was a Teachers Union to fight for teachers rights....:rolleyes:

Birdy

I know of three schools with cases which are not listed on the Twitter page.

They're multiplying at an alarming rate.

kowloonkev

Fantastic news brought by the government that of 357 cases yesterday 185 were men and 172 were women, meaning 0 children tested positive.

If you were ever in doubt that the government wants schools to stay open at any cost, then the evidence is there in what they're not telling the people.

PhoenixParker

kowloonkev wrote: »

Fantastic news brought by the government that of 357 cases yesterday 185 were men and 172 were women, meaning 0 children tested positive.

If you were ever in doubt that the government wants schools to stay open at any cost, then the evidence is there in what they're not telling the people.

They publish detailed pdfs every single day with 10 year age brackets detailing numbers for each with covid, hospitalised, icu and deaths

But don't let reality get in the way of a rant.

https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/casesinireland/epidemiologyofcovid-19inireland/

combat14

the show continues..

School Covid-19 safety check results will not be shared with parents or teachers

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/school-covid-19-safety-check-results-will-not-be-shared-with-parents-1.4355817?mode=amp

Will Yam

Birdy wrote: »

I know of three schools with cases which are not listed on the Twitter page.

They're multiplying at an alarming rate.

3 in 4,000 is really multiplying at an alarming rate.

How many schools are directly affected today. 10? 15?

Will Yam

kowloonkev wrote: »

Fantastic news brought by the government that of 357 cases yesterday 185 were men and 172 were women, meaning 0 children tested positive.

If you were ever in doubt that the government wants schools to stay open at any cost, then the evidence is there in what they're not telling the people.

Maybe they should shut the hospitals. Lots of risk there, I believe,

kowloonkev

PhoenixParker wrote: »

They publish detailed pdfs every single day with 10 year age brackets detailing numbers for each with covid, hospitalised, icu and deaths

But don't let reality get in the way of a rant.

https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/casesinireland/epidemiologyofcovid-19inireland/

Ok I appreciate that information is there. But it seems that I have to do the calculations by myself as in i have to Download two 14 page documents, find todays number of infected children and subtract yesterdays to find the number I'm looking for. Why is it that complicated? And why are they saying on RTE that there are no children infected yesterday? Why are they using the term 'men' and 'women' to make it look like no children are infected and spreading the virus?

like i said i appreciate there is a lot of info there from the HSE and thanks for the link, but the info put out by government officials and on mainstream news doesn't seem to be showing, or want to discuss what is really going on with schools.

PowerToWait

Will Yam wrote: »

Maybe they should shut the hospitals. Lots of risk there, I believe,

I bet there won’t be a more idiotic post on Boards this week.

lulublue22

Will Yam wrote: »

Maybe they should shut the hospitals. Lots of risk there, I believe,

This is what breaks my melt - any concern mentioned re schools and its a knee kerk wah wah sarky reaction lets close the schools. No one is looking to close the schools. Schools are also a working environment. We did as much as we could to minimise risk - we are still not able to have children SD the required 2 m nor are they wearing masks. I spend most of my day supervising hand washing and sanitising the classroom. Add in staggered arrival / departures and staggered breaks and teaching is very far down the list compared to pre covid.
All of the above is to try and prevent the spread of covid particular as I’m Learning Support and going across a number of bubbles.
What I have a problem with is that if a child tests positive staff may not even be informed. I also have a problem with the public health team deciding that a class may not necessarily be classed as close contacts despite advice from the ECDC which indicates all children in a classroom should be designated as close contacts.
I’m interested in tracking cases in schools because it has the potential to affect me. I’m and my colleagues are working hard to prevent spread of covid 19 in our school. I presume other schools are doing the same - I would like to see how effective these strategies are.
I find it’s easy for people who don’t work in the environment to be dismissive of others concerns. A teacher posted about the size of her SET room - que a number if incredulous posts yet every teacher on here knows it is quite possible.

irishblessing

kowloonkev wrote: »

Ok I appreciate that information is there. But it seems that I have to do the calculations by myself as in i have to Download two 14 page documents, find todays number of infected children and subtract yesterdays to find the number I'm looking for. Why is it that complicated? And why are they saying on RTE that there are no children infected yesterday? Why are they using the term 'men' and 'women' to make it look like no children are infected and spreading the virus?

like i said i appreciate there is a lot of info there from the HSE and thanks for the link, but the info put out by government officials and on mainstream news doesn't seem to be showing, or want to discuss what is really going on with schools.

Good points. I also noticed on the document that there wasn't a category by location for creche/school even though there was one confirmed crèche cluster so far in Meath, right? There IS a category "unknown" with the number 1 though. :cool:

kowloonkev

kowloonkev wrote: »

Ok I appreciate that information is there. But it seems that I have to do the calculations by myself as in i have to Download two 14 page documents, find todays number of infected children and subtract yesterdays to find the number I'm looking for. Why is it that complicated? And why are they saying on RTE that there are no children infected yesterday? Why are they using the term 'men' and 'women' to make it look like no children are infected and spreading the virus?

like i said i appreciate there is a lot of info there from the HSE and thanks for the link, but the info put out by government officials and on mainstream news doesn't seem to be showing, or want to discuss what is really going on with schools.

Why? Because, for starters, against all advice, the government wants the wet pubs (outside Dublin) to open on Monday.

WHO's Michael Ryan suggests bars and nightclubs should be closed to keep schools open
https://www.independent.ie/videos/whos-michael-ryan-suggests-bars-and-nightclubs-should-be-closed-to-keep-schools-open-39534517.html


At the beginning of August, the scenario was that wet pubs wouldn't be opened for at least two months after the schools opened and that, we can only assume, depended on schools doing very well after reopening. They are not doing well and that fact is being kept very quiet because pressure to open the wet pubs ruled.

What we were being told on 5 August 2020 https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/sacrificing-pubs-for-schools-ireland-s-latest-covid-trade-off-1.4322043

In the absence of a vaccine, policymakers have had to rely on controlling consumer behaviour to halt the spread of coronavirus. No matter how some might spin it, this has involved a trade-off between health and economics. Reducing transmission has cost us in terms of lost output and employment...

Reversing out of lockdown involves the same trade-off but in reverse: the economy opens up but with an increased risk of transmission. Getting the balance right is going to be tricky.

Opening both pubs and schools in the space of a few weeks has been adjudged too risky, particularly in light of the recent uptick in cases. A tough call had to be made. And it seems pubs have been sacrificed to facilitate the reopening of schools.

The latter will involve approximately one million students and 100,000 teaching staff coming back into circulation – on transport and in the classroom – and stands as the single biggest test of the State’s virus-containment project to date.

The pick-up in transmission among young people – a defining characteristic of the recent caseload here – is likely to have been a factor in the decision to keep pubs shut. The infection spikes associated with the reopening of pubs and bars in other countries is also likely to have weighed on minds.

Announcing the Government’s decision last night, Taoiseach Micheál Martin said: “International evidence shows very clearly that pubs and nightclubs reopening too early leads directly and inextricably to increased community transmission”.

Similarly Mike Ryan, executive director with the World Health Organisation (WHO), said the Government has to weigh up the risks of people gathering in “poorly ventilated, crowded places, where people may reduce their social distancing and let down their guard” against the ability to manage transmission rates in pubs and bars.

The fear now is that so-called wet pubs – those that don’t serve food (they account for about half the State’s 7,000 pubs) – won’t get the green light to reopen for at least another two months. https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/sacrificing-pubs-for-schools-ireland-s-latest-covid-trade-off-1.4322043

irishblessing

irishblessing wrote: »

Good points. I also noticed on the document that there wasn't a category by location for creche/school even though there was one confirmed crèche cluster so far in Meath, right? There IS a category "unknown" with the number 1 though. :cool:

The key is right there in the document.

*Other outbreak location includes community, extended family, hotel, public house, retail outlet, travel related and all
other locations.

eg. the creche is recorded in other. They cant give a separate line for every type of location.

The weekly report breaks it out in more detail, and right in the middle of the table is Childcare facility - Qty 1
https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/surveillance/covid-19outbreaksclustersinireland/COVID-19%20Weekly%20Outbreak%20Highlights_Week362020_web%20version_v2.0_07092020.pdf

Never let facts get in the way of a good rant

downthemiddle

Deleted User wrote: »

Never let facts get in the way of a good rant

Will Yam wrote: »

Maybe they should shut the hospitals. Lots of risk there, I believe,

.

downthemiddle

downthemiddle wrote: »

.

Another good example thanks

SusanC10

lulublue22 wrote: »

What I have a problem with is that if a child tests positive staff may not even be informed. I also have a problem with the public health team deciding that a class may not necessarily be classed as close contacts despite advice from the ECDC which indicates all children in a classroom should be designated as close contacts.
I’m interested in tracking cases in schools because it has the potential to affect me. I’m and my colleagues are working hard to prevent spread of covid 19 in our school. I presume other schools are doing the same - I would like to see how effective these strategies are.
I find it’s easy for people who don’t work in the environment to be dismissive of others concerns. A teacher posted about the size of her SET room - que a number if incredulous posts yet every teacher on here knows it is quite possible.

Agreed. And I am not a Teacher.

caveat emptor

Deleted User wrote: »

The key is right there in the document.



eg. the creche is recorded in other. They cant give a separate line for every type of location.

The weekly report breaks it out in more detail, and right in the middle of the table is Childcare facility - Qty 1
https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/surveillance/covid-19outbreaksclustersinireland/COVID-19%20Weekly%20Outbreak%20Highlights_Week362020_web%20version_v2.0_07092020.pdf

Never let facts get in the way of a good rant

Clear obfuscation tactic. Just like they don't report on outbreaks in schools. I say outbreaks because they can occur and if they did we would never know.

Joke of a system. Close to taking mine out with numbers in Dublin.

caveat emptor

caveat emptor wrote: »

Clear obfuscation tactic. Just like they don't report on outbreaks in schools. I say outbreaks because they can occur and if they did we would never know.

Joke of a system. Close to taking mine out with numbers in Dublin.

Once school outbreaks are confirmed they will appear in the HSPC report, just like the childcare facility appears in the report.

Boggles

Deleted User wrote: »

Once school outbreaks are confirmed they will appear in the HSPC report, just like the childcare facility appears in the report.

Again I ask, since nobody seems to have an answer.

But "facts" are put out there like they know for sure.

Is there a separate level of surveillance for schools or do they go into the general pot of contact tracing, with the very limit variables they work off?

PhoenixParker

kowloonkev wrote: »

Ok I appreciate that information is there. But it seems that I have to do the calculations by myself as in i have to Download two 14 page documents, find todays number of infected children and subtract yesterdays to find the number I'm looking for. Why is it that complicated? And why are they saying on RTE that there are no children infected yesterday? Why are they using the term 'men' and 'women' to make it look like no children are infected and spreading the virus?

like i said i appreciate there is a lot of info there from the HSE and thanks for the link, but the info put out by government officials and on mainstream news doesn't seem to be showing, or want to discuss what is really going on with schools.

Others have said it. The schools are covered by the weekly cluster reports. Theres a new one due out today.

Its out.

13 clusters in schools up to the 9th.

4 in childcare facilities since they reopened.

Private homes: 537 open clusters.
Thats where the issue is.

https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/surveillance/covid-19outbreaksclustersinireland/COVID-19%20Weekly%20Outbreak%20Highlights_Week372020_web%20version_v1.0_14092020.pdf

Lillyfae

PhoenixParker wrote: »

Others have said it. The schools are covered by the weekly cluster reports. Theres a new one due out today.

Its out.

13 clusters in schools up to the 9th.

4 in childcare facilities since they reopened.

Since the childcare facilities opened earlier, it's worth looking at what the differences are. I know I'm going to be laughed at but numbers is only one. Seeing as most children in these facilities are very young, I would imagine there is no social distancing whatsoever possible. Practices in schools need to be looked at very closely.

SusanC10

13 Clusters in Schools
Does it give the location (County) of the 13 Clusters ?

PhoenixParker

PhoenixParker wrote: »

Others have said it. The schools are covered by the weekly cluster reports. Theres a new one due out today.

Its out.

13 clusters in schools up to the 9th.

4 in childcare facilities since they reopened.

Private homes: 537 open clusters.
Thats where the issue is.

https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/surveillance/covid-19outbreaksclustersinireland/COVID-19%20Weekly%20Outbreak%20Highlights_Week372020_web%20version_v1.0_14092020.pdf

But the are hiding and obfuscating the data I thought

Boggles

Deleted User wrote: »

But the are hiding and obfuscating the data I thought

So that would lead me to believe there is a separate surveillance "unit" for schools.

That at least is good news.

irishblessing

Deleted User wrote: »

The key is right there in the document.



eg. the creche is recorded in other. They cant give a separate line for every type of location.

The weekly report breaks it out in more detail, and right in the middle of the table is Childcare facility - Qty 1
https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/surveillance/covid-19outbreaksclustersinireland/COVID-19%20Weekly%20Outbreak%20Highlights_Week362020_web%20version_v2.0_07092020.pdf

Never let facts get in the way of a good rant

Don't be an as$. That's a different report, and I'm not ranting.

irishblessing

irishblessing wrote: »

Don't be an as$. That's a different report, and I'm not ranting.

That's what I said - the weekly report gives more detail and I provided a link to it