Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

FintanMcluskey

deisedevil wrote: »

Honestly. I have yet to see one believable reason as to why the most intelligent people across the globe have lost their minds and are collectively creating this miserable situation for no good reason. The government aren't deciding to enforce restrictions for no good reason. They are following the advice of NPHET who are making their decisions based on the best advice they can get from their colleagues around the globe. Who out there is putting in the effort to ensure that the collective scientific minds around the world keep this going and why would they do it. There isn't one reason anyone can give that doesn't scream conspiracy theory nonsense. It is far, far more likely that what we are being told is fact is exactly just what it is.

Have you been to Sweden?

deisedevil

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Have you been to Sweden?

Do they know why the rest of the world have lost their minds?

bucketybuck

hmmm wrote: »

If you think deaths which can take months to register are a useful indicator of the current trends in the virus you're clearly not too bright. The deaths you are seeing recorded now are probably unfortunate people who got infected back in March/April.

Ah, so now its months. Imagine that. How convenient.

It used to be that there would be a delay of weeks between cases rising and deaths resulting, but now it is actually going to be months before we will see those deaths registered.

And months down the line when the death rate is still negligible what will be next? Years, right? It will be years before we can fully judge the impact of the virus, yeah? :rolleyes:

FintanMcluskey

deisedevil wrote: »

Do they know why the rest of the world have lost their minds?

They do.

Sweden didn't take the PC route of preventing Covid death's at all costs, while sentencing a plethora of other citizen's to death

hmmm

I'd have thought there'd be some level of embarrassment from those who claimed Sweden was the model we should be following, but no they're still going on about it. At least the Swedes themselves have stopped telling the rest of the world how clever they are.

FintanMcluskey

hmmm wrote: »

I'd have thought there'd be some level of embarrassment from those who claimed Sweden was the model we should be following, but no they're still going on about it. At least the Swedes themselves have stopped telling the rest of the world how clever they are.

The deaths per million of over 65 population (where nearly all deaths occur) are nothing to be ashamed about compared to some countries.

topper75

hmmm wrote: »

I'd have thought there'd be some level of embarrassment from those who claimed Sweden was the model we should be following, but no they're still going on about it. At least the Swedes themselves have stopped telling the rest of the world how clever they are.

Embarrassed why? I wouldn't think anybody should be embarrassed to point out that their outcome with the disease was not a whole lot worse than ours despite them not taken the extreme and harmful measures we took.

I'd be embarrassed to do mental gymnastics to justify Ireland's evidence-ignoring current stance. On this thread people have said quite a few nuts things to do so. My favourite was that 'deaths can take months to register'. For a disease that is supposedly only here 6 months.

bucketybuck

topper75 wrote: »

For a disease that is supposedly only here 6 months.

All the March/April deaths in nursing homes were clearly people who had caught the virus months before, probably on their Wuhan weekend break.

Of course that would mean the virus was in those same nursing homes for months on end, which also could mean that approx 25,000 older people were exposed to it. Which would raise a few implications of its own.

Lundstram

I think I’m right in saying we are the only country in the EU with wet pubs still closed?

Watch them use a few harmless outbreaks in the schools to justify keeping them closed.

Gutless.

hmmm

topper75 wrote: »

Embarrassed why? I wouldn't think anybody should be embarrassed to point out that their outcome with the disease was not a whole lot worse than ours despite them not taken the extreme and harmful measures we took.

Sweden, even with their gross under-reporting of cases, has twice as many deaths per million from Covid as we have. They have sacrificed their elderly population in a futile and frankly disgusting attempt to get herd immunity. Thankfully many of their own people have copped on to what the government was doing, and have instituted their own social distancing measures to try and protect themselves.

nannerbenahs

deisedevil wrote: »

Honestly. I have yet to see one believable reason as to why the most intelligent people across the globe have lost their minds and are collectively creating this miserable situation for no good reason. The government aren't deciding to enforce restrictions for no good reason. They are following the advice of NPHET who are making their decisions based on the best advice they can get from their colleagues around the globe. Who out there is putting in the effort to ensure that the collective scientific minds around the world keep this going and why would they do it. There isn't one reason anyone can give that doesn't scream conspiracy theory nonsense. It is far, far more likely that what we are being told is fact is exactly just what it is.

We have all been brought up to trust voices of´´authority´´, but thinking about all the lies we are regularly fed by politicians and media even to facilitate an illegal invasion and destruction of a country in 2003, I would tend to look at things with a cold eye on the detail and what is provable and what is not.
There is too much at stake here for us to blindly put our trust in ´´official´narratives.

Take the question of masks and whether they are helping or not. The fact is that there are respected studies, some of which say yes and some which say no. The most recent on the CDC site seems to be saying an emphatic no.
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article?fbclid=IwAR3ASxBUrRE5LHeZsZF-iHrpTuX2PprS8FnkKGUpEUDEIAnH6s5wQOpkOJI
In other words, the idea that this is a settled scientific matter is incorrect. But the authorities are not allowing discussion on this now despite the serious harm mask-wearing can cause many people, not least the enormous psychological harm to children . ASk yourself WHY, instead of just accepting the fact that they are now pushing so hard for mandatory usage when earlier they said the opposite.

deisedevil

nannerbenahs wrote: »

We have all been brought up to trust voices of´´authority´´, but thinking about all the lies we are regularly fed by politicians and media even to facilitate an illegal invasion and destruction of a country in 2003, I would tend to look at things with a cold eye on the detail and what is provable and what is not.
There is too much at stake here for us to blindly put our trust in ´´official´narratives.

Take the question of masks and whether they are helping or not. The fact is that there are respected studies, some of which say yes and some which say no. The most recent on the CDC site seems to be saying an emphatic no.
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article?fbclid=IwAR3ASxBUrRE5LHeZsZF-iHrpTuX2PprS8FnkKGUpEUDEIAnH6s5wQOpkOJI
In other words, the idea that this is a settled scientific matter is incorrect. But the authorities are not allowing discussion on this now despite the serious harm mask-wearing can cause many people, not least the enormous psychological harm to children . ASk yourself WHY, instead of just accepting the fact that they are now pushing so hard for mandatory usage when earlier they said the opposite.

That's what I'm getting at. The destruction of a country in 2003 was for a reason. What's the real reason for enforcing coronavirus restrictions worldwide. How are so many being conned by a virus supposedly no more harmful than influenza?

stephenjmcd

Lundstram wrote: »

I think I’m right in saying we are the only country in the EU with wet pubs still closed?

Watch them use a few harmless outbreaks in the schools to justify keeping them closed.

Gutless.

Yup us and NI only country with "wet" pubs closed

FintanMcluskey

Lundstram wrote: »

I think I’m right in saying we are the only country in the EU with wet pubs still closed?

Watch them use a few harmless outbreaks in the schools to justify keeping them closed.

Gutless.

Police state.

Recreational activities halted for no reason.

lee_baby_simms

Lundstram wrote: »

I think I’m right in saying we are the only country in the EU with wet pubs still closed?

Watch them use a few harmless outbreaks in the schools to justify keeping them closed.

Gutless.

Correct. We have painted ourselves into a dark corner. We have a panel of ultra cautious, myopic medical advisors dictating policy to a spineless set of decision makers, supported by a pandering media.

All this being fed into the heads of the public. Clearly the unspoken message is “keep the public scared. It’s the only way they’ll actually listen to us.”

I sincerely hope the general public aren’t as easily manipulated as they’re perceived as by the people above.

Penfailed

Lundstram wrote: »

I think I’m right in saying we are the only country in the EU with wet pubs still closed?

Watch them use a few harmless outbreaks in the schools to justify keeping them closed.

Gutless.

Still closed in NI.

Penfailed

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Police state.

Recreational activities halted for no reason.

Oh for fúck sake. Still with this 'police state' shíte?! Give over.

walus

topper75 wrote: »

Embarrassed why? I wouldn't think anybody should be embarrassed to point out that their outcome with the disease was not a whole lot worse than ours despite them not taken the extreme and harmful measures we took.

I'd be embarrassed to do mental gymnastics to justify Ireland's evidence-ignoring current stance. On this thread people have said quite a few nuts things to do so. My favourite was that 'deaths can take months to register'. For a disease that is supposedly only here 6 months.

It will be the Irish government who will be embarrassed that additionally to the deaths directly related to Covid in the near future we will have 2-3x more people dying due to lack of screening, their treatment suspension or just their fear of going to the hospital to get treatment. Secondary order deaths will significantly exceed the direct deaths of (with) Covid.

walus

hmmm wrote: »

Sweden, even with their gross under-reporting of cases, has twice as many deaths per million from Covid as we have. They have sacrificed their elderly population in a futile and frankly disgusting attempt to get herd immunity. Thankfully many of their own people have copped on to what the government was doing, and have instituted their own social distancing measures to try and protect themselves.

If you count the deaths related, as they say know, to Covid that indeed is the case. 580 vs 360 deaths per million to be more precise. Ratio of 1.6.
Think about the secondary deaths that Sweden has prevented, i.e. other patients in Ireland who due to this pandemic of fear considered Covid as the most sinister disease there is (as per government advice) did not seek treatments for whatever problems with their health they were experiencing at the time. Those people Sweden saved. We were all fighting so that HSE are not overwhelmed so well (too well maybe) that HSE staff were sent on holidays as there was nothing for them to do. What will happen to those people, those patients in Ireland do you think?

Happydays2020

The reality at this stage is that we are as open as we will be for the foreseeable future. Non food pubs can open quite simply at this stage if they wish to be a bit creative. Not a chance nightclubs will be open until there is a vaccine. Maybe in a few months stadiums can be partly open (which would be a big positive in my view).

munchkin_utd

Lundstram wrote: »

I think I’m right in saying we are the only country in the EU with wet pubs still closed?

Watch them use a few harmless outbreaks in the schools to justify keeping them closed.

Gutless.

For the sake of completeness they are also closed in Bavaria in Germany (health is very regionalised so it varies from state to state) BUT the rules on whats a gastro-pub are more lax than Ireland and its also not compulsorary for a customer to actually buy food so you could get away with offering a hotdog.

What is enforced is that you can no longer sit at a bar, you need to sit at a table and be served, and theres no standing allowed. If anyones been to germany or bavaria, its not a lot different to normal

walus

Recently I spoke to a couple of people about covid and risk it bears to the population. These were intelligent, educated professional including a former university lecturer. At the end of the conversation I asked: "If you had to choose between covid and pneumonia, what would you pick?". All three of them picked pneumonia as one bearing lower risk to them. That only shows what peoples' perception of this virus is and more importantly how it is portrayed in the media and how that influences their perception and decision making. Staggering really.

odyssey06

walus wrote: »

Recently I spoke to a couple of people about covid and risk it bears to the population. These were intelligent, educated professional including a former university lecturer. At the end of the conversation I asked: "If you had to choose between covid and pneumonia, what would you pick?". All three of them picked pneumonia as one bearing lower risk to them. That only shows what peoples' perception of this virus is and more importantly how it is portrayed in the media and how that influences their perception and decision making. Staggering really.

It doesn't show "peoples" perception, or the risk it bears to the "population".
It shows the perception of one particular demographic of the risk to their demographic.
And that perception could well be wrong.

How contagious is pneumonia?
How treatable is pneumonia?
There is a vaccine for pneumonia - some forms of it.
That's pretty important to how a disease is treated in terms of public health.

Covid-19 is a virus with a very strong association with age and certain pre-conditions.
That said, 400-500 under 50s in the UK without co-morbidities died from covid-19.
I don't have the figures for here.

Spiderman0081

deisedevil wrote: »

Do they know why the rest of the world have lost their minds?

They know it and I have not met a single Swede that is not thankful for being here in Sweden during this crisis.

Spiderman0081

hmmm wrote: »

Sweden, even with their gross under-reporting of cases, has twice as many deaths per million from Covid as we have. They have sacrificed their elderly population in a futile and frankly disgusting attempt to get herd immunity. Thankfully many of their own people have copped on to what the government was doing, and have instituted their own social distancing measures to try and protect themselves.

You should visit Sweden. You are welcome to stay with me here in Stockholm. We can both go out on the streets and try and find one person who thinks like you do about Sweden or Swedes. Or even find a person with a mask for that matter.

odyssey06

Spiderman0081 wrote: »

They know it and I have not met a single Swede that is not thankful for being here in Sweden during this crisis.

You don't know anyone who lost a loved one to the crisis?
Are they thankful too?

Assetbacked

TRANQUILLO wrote: »

fear of litigation , fear of losing ones political seat, fear of looking like a fool . appeasing the baying mob. its a vicious cycle. An unforgiving media lashing the government out of it at every opportunity.

This is exactly it. Being anti-establishment isn't due to a fear of some sort of mass conspiracy. It is just a collection of the above reasons which all combine to create this farcical situation we are in with regard to managing covid.

hmmm

walus wrote: »

Recently I spoke to a couple of people about covid and risk it bears to the population.

You asked a group of intelligent people what they thought, they gave you an answer you didn't like, and you didn't ask yourself whether you might be misjudging the risk yourself?

TRANQUILLO

Penfailed wrote: »

The OP said that the focus had changed from deaths to cases. I pointed out that the focus hasn't changed as both have been reported right from the very start. To me it's not agenda driven, it's reporting the facts as they are. What do you mean about 'how its framed'? Numbers are numbers.

if you cant discern what i meant from the post i made i fear we have reached an impasse.

Spiderman0081

odyssey06 wrote: »

You don't know anyone who lost a loved one to the crisis?
Are they thankful too?

I know many who have had covid. Only recently I talked to a lady who lost someone. There was no anger from her. Or anyone else for that matter that has come down with this virus. I have never met anyone yet that wished that they were somewhere else because the recommendations are too lenient. My girlfriends mother is 66, has diabetes and takes the underground to work every day. Her mother is nearly 90 years old with diabetes. They meet often for lunch or dinner at cafes, restaurants etc. They are very aware that diabetes is one of the main underlying ailments that contribute to death when covid is in the human body.
Strange how those that I know here that are most vulnerable don’t want to force people to wear masks for example. It’s very possible that one of them might catch covid. But they won’t blame anyone else.