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2020 the battle of the septuagenarians - Trump vs Biden, Part 2

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    #8672
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,522 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    DraftDodger wrote: »
    Honestly they don't know themselves I'd say. It doesn't matter really they just need to believe in something and Biden brings nothing to them. He's seen as just more Obama or Clinton.

    Which is better?
    Believing in someone advocating for positive change? Or someone advocating for rolling back positive steps which have been taken?

    I'd prefer to be talking about the possibility of next year bringing a Bernie Presidency and a Democrat led Senate and House but in the absence of that, I would favour someone who isn't making things worse.


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    #8673
    1800_Ladladlad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,353 ✭✭✭1800_Ladladlad


    When The Rock endorsed Joe Biden, Joe asked “What about paper and scissors?”.


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    #8674
    extra gravy
    Registered Users Posts: 22,624 ✭✭✭✭extra gravy


    1800_Ladladlad wrote: »
    When The Rock endorsed Joe Biden, Joe asked “What about paper and scissors?”.

    Posting shiit jokes now, did you run out of videos?


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    #8675
    ChikiChiki
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,950 ✭✭✭ChikiChiki


    Watching the Deterring Democracy piece on C4. Facebook are a ****ing cesspit.


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    #8676
    PropJoe10
    Registered Users Posts: 5,263 ✭✭✭PropJoe10


    Tell me how wrote: »
    What type of change does America want though?

    Obama fans wanted progressiveness. Increased healthcare, climate action, inclusivity etc
    Trump fans wanted to step back. Reduced healthcare, less climate legislation, race division etc.


    There isn't any sort of change that can keep America together, its too divided. A progressive candidate won't get the votes. An ultra conservative candidate wont either. Its not a real country. Its about ten countries cobbled together. Unsustainable.


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    #8677
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,522 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    ChikiChiki wrote: »
    Watching the Deterring Democracy piece on C4. Facebook are a ****ing cesspit.

    Saw a tweet yesterday with a video of all the times Zuckerberg has apologised and said that they made a serious judgement. It went back 17 years!!! That's a generation of people who have seen their persona's and data traded and manipulated like in a matrix.

    I actually think he has found himself in this accidental position and that he hasn't, for whatever reason, grasped that what they were doing or planning on doing was going to be problematic.

    Maybe I am giving him too much credit.


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    #8678
    DraftDodger
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 284 ✭✭DraftDodger


    PropJoe10 wrote: »
    There isn't any sort of change that can keep America together, its too divided. A progressive candidate won't get the votes. An ultra conservative candidate wont either. Its not a real country. Its about ten countries cobbled together. Unsustainable.

    I laughed at a companion of mine who said to me over 10 years ago now America will have a civil war in our lifetimes (I'm 47). Over the last while I've had a feeling he could be right.

    A very fcuked up country.


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    #8679
    Rjd2
    Registered Users Posts: 12,030 ✭✭✭✭Rjd2


    Deleted User wrote: »
    rump supporters will queue for 2 days to get in to hear him speak. There's nothing like the enthusiasm on the Biden side.

    You don't get to vote more than once because you are keen.

    Trump is great at firing up his base, but also great at firing up his opponents supporters. Their has been numerous type of elections in states since 2016 and the most notable was the 2018 mid terms where turnout from the Dems was excellent and the GOP got smashed in the suburbs aka the base which looks like it will cost Trump the election.

    Biden is a meh politician , but it doesn't matter, their is a sizeable portion of Americans who would identify as moderates, centre left, centre right who are apoplectic with rage with Trump and are gagging to vote him out.

    Look at how races have gone last few years, early voting numbers and voting enthusiasm, the idea that Trump has the most fired up base is wrong.

    And I say that as someone who has little time for Biden.


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    #8680
    eire4
    Registered Users Posts: 6,642 ✭✭✭eire4


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    It obviously needs to be pointed out again but Biden won a primary process of numerous candidates and comfortably won more votes than any other candidate.

    Your absolutely correct in what you say no question. What I would say though is to point out that in actual elections both presidential and mid terms only about half of Americans vote. That is pathetic. On top of that a fraction of that actually vote in primary elections. For the current election in the primaries Montana had the best voter turnout at just under 46%. North Dakota at 2.6% was the worst the overall national average was a paltry 23%. So again yes Biden won the primaries but only based on a national vote turnout of about 23%.

    IMHO voter turnout in the US is so pathetic because the system is utterly corrupt and dysfunctional. Neither party has any interest in legislating economically in the best interests of the vast majority of Americans but rather just in the economic interests of the rich and major corporations. Granted the Democrats take in maybe the richest 20% or so compared to the Republicans with the top 1% or so but the fact remains they both have no interest in doing what is best for the vast majority of Americans. Further more both parties use the current corrupt and dysfunctional system to make sure there is no way alternatives that might address the needs of the vast majority of Americans can rise up and become viable nationally.


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    #8681
    Justin Credible Darts
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭Justin Credible Darts


    why is it the minute some one slates the bumbling biden the first reaction of others is to suddenly mention trump is this and that ?

    It seems the only response to the failings of biden is to make out how he is better that Trump, that does not mean Bidens failings are to be simply brushed aside.
    Its almost a deflection tactic, when faced with criticism, they shift the argument straight to Trump.


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    #8682
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,286 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Justin Credible Darts wrote: »
    why is it the minute some one slates the bumbling biden the first reaction of others is to suddenly mention trump is this and that ?

    It seems the only response to the failings of biden is to make out how he is better that Trump, that does not mean Bidens failings are to be simply brushed aside.
    Its almost a deflection tactic, when faced with criticism, they shift the argument straight to Trump.

    but he is better than trump. in almost every measurable way.


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    #8683
    namloc1980
    Registered Users Posts: 18,139 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    DraftDodger wrote: »
    They are extremely shy tbh. Clinton was consistently ahead in the polls by a huge margin and lost because people won't admit to voting Trump. This will be no different

    This is just a complete fantasy that you made up.


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    #8684
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    Justin Credible Darts wrote: »
    why is it the minute some one slates the bumbling biden the first reaction of others is to suddenly mention trump is this and that ?

    It seems the only response to the failings of biden is to make out how he is better that Trump, that does not mean Bidens failings are to be simply brushed aside.
    Its almost a deflection tactic, when faced with criticism, they shift the argument straight to Trump.

    Joe himself done the same thing when his sons board appointment was brought up


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    #8685
    namloc1980
    Registered Users Posts: 18,139 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Justin Credible Darts wrote: »
    why is it the minute some one slates the bumbling biden the first reaction of others is to suddenly mention trump is this and that ?

    It seems the only response to the failings of biden is to make out how he is better that Trump, that does not mean Bidens failings are to be simply brushed aside.
    Its almost a deflection tactic, when faced with criticism, they shift the argument straight to Trump.

    why is it the minute some one slates the bumbling Trump the first reaction of others is to suddenly mention Biden is this and that ?

    It seems the only response to the failings of Trump is to make out how he is better that Biden, that does not mean Trumps failings are to be simply brushed aside.
    Its almost a deflection tactic, when faced with criticism, they shift the argument straight to Biden.


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    #8686
    Justin Credible Darts
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭Justin Credible Darts


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    but he is better than trump. in almost every measurable way.


    so ?


    what has that got to do with what I wrote ?




    Maybe I have to make it simpler , why does a topic or discussion debating the failings of biden, have to involve trump. ?


    Are people who despise trump and support Biden unable to discuss their own candidate without having to deflect..


    The topic of Biden being chosen as the candidate for the democrat party, and how the democrats messed up is a democrat issue......but people will deflect and mention trump.


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    #8687
    DraftDodger
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 284 ✭✭DraftDodger


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    why is it the minute some one slates the bumbling Trump the first reaction of others is to suddenly mention Biden is this and that ?

    It seems the only response to the failings of Trump is to make out how he is better that Biden, that does not mean Trumps failings are to be simply brushed aside.
    Its almost a deflection tactic, when faced with criticism, they shift the argument straight to Biden.

    And visa versa. . .


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    #8688
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,522 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Justin Credible Darts wrote: »
    why is it the minute some one slates the bumbling biden the first reaction of others is to suddenly mention trump is this and that ?

    It seems the only response to the failings of biden is to make out how he is better that Trump, that does not mean Bidens failings are to be simply brushed aside.
    Its almost a deflection tactic, when faced with criticism, they shift the argument straight to Trump.

    You do realise it's a head to head between the 2 of them?

    Say you are buying a second hand car and are on a tight budget and need to make the purchase today and have only 2 options.
    You look at the first and see scratch marks and think well, I don't want a car like that, but then you look at the other and see oil leaking from the engine block.

    Now, would you ignore the oil problem just because the first isn't perfect or waste time talking about how bad the scratches are?

    The fact that people are aggrieved that the conversation isn't limited to Trump shows, for the hundredth time, how much of a failure he has been.


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    #8689
    eire4
    Registered Users Posts: 6,642 ✭✭✭eire4


    Tell me how wrote: »
    Saw a tweet yesterday with a video of all the times Zuckerberg has apologised and said that they made a serious judgement. It went back 17 years!!! That's a generation of people who have seen their persona's and data traded and manipulated like in a matrix.

    I actually think he has found himself in this accidental position and that he hasn't, for whatever reason, grasped that what they were doing or planning on doing was going to be problematic.

    Maybe I am giving him too much credit.

    I think your giving Zuckerberg way to much credit. He knows exactly what he is doing and what is happening and does not care as long as the money keeps rolling in. He fits in though with the general American mentality. Money matters people don't.


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    #8690
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,286 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Justin Credible Darts wrote: »
    so ?


    what has that got to do with what I wrote ?




    Maybe I have to make it simpler , why does a topic or discussion debating the failings of biden, have to involve trump. ?


    Are people who despise trump and support Biden unable to discuss their own candidate without having to deflect..


    The topic of Biden being chosen as the candidate for the democrat party, and how the democrats messed up is a democrat issue......but people will deflect and mention trump.

    because it is a head to head race.


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    #8691
    DraftDodger
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 284 ✭✭DraftDodger


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    but he is better than trump. in almost every measurable way.

    So was Clinton.


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    #8692
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,286 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    DraftDodger wrote: »
    And visa versa. . .

    you should probably read the post that was a reply to.


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    #8693
    Justin Credible Darts
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭Justin Credible Darts


    for example.

    I say Biden is a terrible candidate, its a disgrace the democrat party chose him.

    The response is " but Trump is a racist"

    You then say had the democrats picked a better candidate than hilary maybe they would have won 4 years ago
    response " but trump never paid his taxes"

    This is typical of the mindset by some democrat lovers, the minute any of Bidens failings are mentioned, rather than addressing those issues, they instead opt with the "trump did this, trump did that", as if that negates the original discussion.

    The democrat party put forward Hilary and now biden, two abysmal candidates, and deflecting to trump wont alter that.


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    #8694
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,522 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Justin Credible Darts wrote: »
    for example.

    Biden is a terrible candidate, its a disgrace the democra party chose him.

    The response is " but Trump is a racist"

    You then say had the democrats picked a better candidate than hilary maybe they would have won 4 years ago
    response " but trump never paid his taxes"

    This is typical of the mindset by some democrat lovers, the minute any of Bidens failings are mentioned, rather than addressing those issues, they instead opt with the "trump did this, trump did that", as if that negates the original discussion.

    The democrat party put forward Hilary and now biden, two abysmal candidates, and deflecting to trump wont alter that.

    Hillary lost dude. Get over it.


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    #8695
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,286 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    DraftDodger wrote: »
    So was Clinton.

    indeed but hilary annoyed a lot of people for some reason.


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    #8696
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,214 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    DraftDodger wrote: »
    They are extremely shy tbh. Clinton was consistently ahead in the polls by a huge margin and lost because people won't admit to voting Trump. This will be no different

    No.. No she wasn't - The polls were pretty much bang on - They had Clinton with a ~3% lead nationally , she won the popular vote by 2.1%

    There was no "shy Trump Voter" in 2016 and there aren't any now or at least not enough to make any difference.

    Where they got it slightly wrong in 2016 was in how the "undecided" voters would break in the key swing states.

    On average there was about 10% of undecided voters in those states in 2016 and the majority of them broke from Trump.

    In almost every single State , Clinton got a higher % of the vote than the polls projected , but Trump got those undecideds.

    This time around there is roughly half the amount of undecided voters out there , even if they broke for Trump at the same rate as 2016 it still probably wouldn't be enough to close the leads that Biden has in those critical Rust belt States.


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    #8697
    Sorolla
    Registered Users Posts: 996 ✭✭✭Sorolla


    Justin Credible Darts wrote: »
    for example.

    I say Biden is a terrible candidate, its a disgrace the democrat party chose him.

    The response is " but Trump is a racist"

    You then say had the democrats picked a better candidate than hilary maybe they would have won 4 years ago
    response " but trump never paid his taxes"

    This is typical of the mindset by some democrat lovers, the minute any of Bidens failings are mentioned, rather than addressing those issues, they instead opt with the "trump did this, trump did that", as if that negates the original discussion.

    The democrat party put forward Hilary and now biden, two abysmal candidates, and deflecting to trump wont alter that.

    Joes people are from Ballina - I think they might have come over with Humbert - Joe will be a great friend to Ireland

    Donald had a great love for Ireland and has a beautiful property in Doonbeg

    No matter who wins a friend of Ireland will be next President

    For us it is a win win situation


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    #8698
    dark crystal
    Registered Users Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    Justin Credible Darts wrote: »
    so ?


    what has that got to do with what I wrote ?




    Maybe I have to make it simpler , why does a topic or discussion debating the failings of biden, have to involve trump. ?


    Are people who despise trump and support Biden unable to discuss their own candidate without having to deflect..


    The topic of Biden being chosen as the candidate for the democrat party, and how the democrats messed up is a democrat issue......but people will deflect and mention trump.

    It's quite simple - it's an election between two candidates. A competition of sorts, if you'd prefer.

    Let's say there's two fighters about to go head to head in a boxing match - isn't there usually a dissection of which fighter stands the better chance of winning based on a number of factors; strength, weight, fitness, number of wins/losses etc.?

    Why are you so confused about the fact that people will weigh up the merits/failings of one politician against another during an election?


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    #8699
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,214 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Sorolla wrote: »
    Joes people are from Ballina - I think they might have come over with Humbert - Joe will be a great friend to Ireland

    Donald had a great love for Ireland and has a beautiful property in Doonbeg

    No matter who wins a friend of Ireland will be next President

    For us it is a win win situation

    Donald has no great love of anyone or anything other than himself.


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    #8700
    eire4
    Registered Users Posts: 6,642 ✭✭✭eire4


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    Donald has no great love of anyone or anything other than himself.

    Nail on the proverbial head.


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    #8701
    Sorolla
    Registered Users Posts: 996 ✭✭✭Sorolla


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    Donald has no great love of anyone or anything other than himself.

    There I believe you are wrong - even before he became President it was well known he was a big lover of Ireland.

    His mother was a great friend of the great Irish tenor, Frank Patterson.

    He will also come to Ireland to celebrate St Patricks Day in 2021

    He loves us


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