Brexit discussion thread XIII (Please read OP before posting)

Leonard Hofstadter

Not directly Brexit related I admit (although it is and it isn't, it's certainly a symptom of what caused the vote to leave the EU), but apparently some in the UK are forgoing Pfizer vaccines because they want to (and I quote) 'wait for the English one' (the AstraZeneca / Oxford one).

Now we'll just gloss over the fact that there are several Irish people involved in this study, and clinical trails and all they entail are truly global mutli-national collaborations, but that's just truly staggering in an awful pandemic.

Hard nationalism is literally killing people, just extraordinary. Those fools who fan those flames really have so much to answer for - although the lack of critical thinking is equally stunning (and not in a good way).

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0107/1188376-vaccine-england/

ancapailldorcha

Mod: I've moved some off topic posts.

Retr0gamer

Nody wrote: »

EU are punishing UK companies and UK for daring to leave UK and hinder UK from go where it should be! To stop that UK will now remove more red tape to enable innovation for UK companies and help make food cheaper by removing quotas EU forced on us! UK will become world leader in innovation, AI, automatic driving cars and enable UK companies to do what they can't do currently!

The UK has moved themselves out of the biggest trade block in the world. The EU isn't punishing anyone. This is the equivalent of the UK punching itself in its face and blaming the EU. I also don't see how the UK is going to be a leader in anything with it's isolationist policies where it has effectively cut itself off from innovation, ideas and people from other countries. This is the UK's own goal.

peter kern

Leonard Hofstadter wrote: »

Not directly Brexit related I admit (although it is and it isn't, it's certainly a symptom of what caused the vote to leave the EU), but apparently some in the UK are forgoing Pfizer vaccines because they want to (and I quote) 'wait for the English one' (the AstraZeneca / Oxford one).

Now we'll just gloss over the fact that there are several Irish people involved in this study, and clinical trails and all they entail are truly global mutli-national collaborations, but that's just truly staggering in an awful pandemic.

Hard nationalism is literally killing people, just extraordinary. Those fools who fan those flames really have so much to answer for - although the lack of critical thinking is equally stunning (and not in a good way).

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0107/1188376-vaccine-england/

at the same time there is some suggestions that the eu was rather slow in buying avaialble drugs as france was putting on pressure to buy more 'french" drugs .

TCDStudent1

peter kern wrote: »

at the same time there is some suggestions that the eu was rather slow in buying avaialble drugs as france was putting on pressure to buy more 'french" drugs .

Do you have a source for this? I'd be interested in reading the full article.

The Raging Bile Duct

Retr0gamer wrote: »

The UK has moved themselves out of the biggest trade block in the world. The EU isn't punishing anyone. This is the equivalent of the UK punching itself in its face and blaming the EU. I also don't see how the UK is going to be a leader in anything with it's isolationist policies where it has effectively cut itself off from innovation, ideas and people from other countries. This is the UK's own goal.

His post was poking fun at the mindset of Brexiteers.

The Raging Bile Duct

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

Do you have a source for this? I'd be interested in reading the full article.

The only source I've seen is an Express article so I wouldn't put any stock in any of the nonsense they printed and I won't give the extra hits by linking it here.

Hurrache

The Express is not a source, they literally make up stuff that they think reflects badly on the EU.

Retr0gamer

The Raging Bile Duct wrote: »

His post was poking fun at the mindset of Brexiteers.

My sarcasm detector needs calibration. Been reading too many daily mail comments.

Enzokk

Here is just a thread about how the disruption now happening was predicted by the experts, but they were told they were wrong or were just not listened to.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1347468916872912896.html

https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1347468916872912896?s=20

It explains simply why there are checks and what is happening. The decisions is all down to Johnson and friends, they made the decision for this to happen.

Edit: Mods, I know this is related to trade, but it delves into the Brexit deal and explain why it is happening, I think it is more Brexit related than Irish UK trade.

Nody

Retr0gamer wrote: »

My sarcasm detector needs calibration. Been reading too many daily mail comments.

Well the post was in reply to Enzokk in regards to how going to WTO terms could be framed in the same way Brexit was framed in sovereignty to make complex easy and popular. I agree that it's utterly stupid but I think that's the direction they will go rather than BRINO which was the original question in reaction to the realities on the ground right now as people thought UK would move towards BRINO to reduce the issues.

peter kern

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

Do you have a source for this? I'd be interested in reading the full article.

sorry no this was on german telly where journalists from france china uk germany and from brussels where discussing covid
the french journalist could neither confirm nor deny it.

peter kern

but the fact remains that the EU did not change its order when it was clear that sanofi was not going to be able to supply the drug anytime soon.

https://www.augsburger-allgemeine.de/politik/Warum-hat-die-Europaeische-Union-nicht-mehr-Impfdosen-bestellt-id58850051.html

In Brüssel verpasste man die aktuelle Entwicklung. So bestellte die EU-Kommission beispielsweise bei Sanofi mit insgesamt 300 Millionen Dosen mehr als bei Biontech (200 plus eine Option auf 100 Millionen Dosen). Als der französische Konzern früh aus dem Rennen um ein schnell verfügbares Vakzin ausschied, schaltete man nicht um, sondern ließ die Dinge laufen.

lawred2

Enzokk wrote: »

Here is just a thread about how the disruption now happening was predicted by the experts, but they were told they were wrong or were just not listened to.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1347468916872912896.html

https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1347468916872912896?s=20

It explains simply why there are checks and what is happening. The decisions is all down to Johnson and friends, they made the decision for this to happen.

Edit: Mods, I know this is related to trade, but it delves into the Brexit deal and explain why it is happening, I think it is more Brexit related than Irish UK trade.

these twitter threads are grand

but it's only preaching to the choir

PokeHerKing

Let's not go down the road of believing that the EU or EU states are above protectionism or nationalism. We are all humans.

Brexit can be retarded without needing to make out the EU is perfect.

lawred2

PokeHerKing wrote: »

Let's not go down the road of believing that the EU or EU states are above protectionism or nationalism. We are all humans.

Brexit can be retarded without needing to make out the EU is perfect.

what's that comment in relation to?

lennymc

PokeHerKing wrote: »

Let's not go down the road of believing that the EU or EU states are above protectionism or nationalism. We are all humans.

Brexit can be retarded without needing to make out the EU is perfect.

From a members perspective, is it not better that we in the EU are protectionist - and as a result protect our members interests above the likes of the UK who chose to leave? I for one, would not be in favour of an EU who was not acting to protect itself.

ancapailldorcha

It looks like the fishing industry is in for a devastating blow:

Fishermen are halting exports to Europe because new border bureaucracy introduced by the government as part of Brexit is making their business unviable.

Exporters now have to deal with new health certificates, customs declarations and other paperwork if they want to sell to the EU, the largest market for much of the UK's catch.

Describing the situation as a "catastrophe", businesses said orders from Europe were also drying up because of Boris Johnson's new trade barriers.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-fish-trade-uk-eu-lorries-exports-b1784312.html

This was always going to be an issue because of the new friction introduced to the trade in fish, two-thirds of British fish crossing the channel and the perishable nature of the goods involved. Of course, we'll hear nothing from the Brexiters as the fishing industry has served its purpose.

weemcd

M&S have announced the withdrawal of 300+ products in Northern Ireland. I have personally noticed this in the shop around the corner from me, usually a thriving, well stocked shop in a busy, well off area.

I wonder how long they can remain viable businesses?

https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/politics/ms-temporarily-withdraws-hundreds-items-sale-northern-ireland-due-irish-sea-border-red-tape-3089599

looksee

Leave.eu may have moved their registered address to Waterford but they haven't changed that information on their webpage. Possibly wisely.

Meanwhile 2 out of 2 orders that I thought I was ordering stuff from Ireland and it turns out its coming from a distribution centre / premises in the UK. And in both cases was dismally delayed, with a lack of communication from either firm. How long before Irish suppliers are obliged to specify that goods are in fact being ordered/shipped from the UK when they advertise stuff for sale here?

Hurrache

Neale Richmond has sent a letter to Comreg asking about the legality of them (Leave EU) doing so.

otnomart

peter kern wrote: »

at the same time there is some suggestions that the eu was rather slow in buying avaialble drugs as france was putting on pressure to buy more 'french" drugs .

It was initially reported by Der Spiegel.
Here is an article in English on Politico
France denies allegations it pressured EU to buy French vaccines over German

https://www.politico.eu/article/france-puts-down-vaccine-favouritism-allegations/

yagan

looksee wrote: »

Meanwhile 2 out of 2 orders that I thought I was ordering stuff from Ireland and it turns out its coming from a distribution centre / premises in the UK. And in both cases was dismally delayed, with a lack of communication from either firm. How long before Irish suppliers are obliged to specify that goods are in fact being ordered/shipped from the UK when they advertise stuff for sale here?

That's really frustrating. I stopping ordering stuff from the UK back in November but have been looking at similar stuff advertised an .ie site, but now you've made me double check.

ambro25

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

looksee wrote: »

Leave.eu may have moved their registered address to Waterford but they haven't changed that information on their webpage. Possibly wisely.

Meanwhile 2 out of 2 orders that I thought I was ordering stuff from Ireland and it turns out its coming from a distribution centre / premises in the UK. And in both cases was dismally delayed, with a lack of communication from either firm. How long before Irish suppliers are obliged to specify that goods are in fact being ordered/shipped from the UK when they advertise stuff for sale here?

Until customer returns eat up their cashflow (stock domestically in IE & resell as second, or ship back to UK with costly paperwork + transport: in either case, profit level through the floor). And that's presuming they're already eating the dent from increasing transport & customs costs.

Sooner still, if they did not risk-assess and Irish customers get hit with customs invoices out of the blue.

EDIT: I had a bit of free time this morning, so went for a mooch on the European Register of trademarks to find out what my old UK firm (the one I worked for before Brexoding, not the UK arm of the current one) has done by way of Brexit mitigation. The address for service changed from UK to an EU27 address on 02 Jan for all EU marks and designs previously managed from the UK, so the 'arrangements' are public after a fashion (we can tell which IP firm in the UK has done what and in some cases with whom)...

...Well, **** me, but I've yet to stop laughing and get back on my chair!

Sam Russell

schmoo2k wrote: »

Should have renamed it to "left.eu"?

Maybe they think the website will be useful for when other English speaking EU members are going to leave the EU because of the brilliant success that Brexit has been shown to be.

I suppose moving to Waterford might suggest which EU country that might be.

They could enlist the services of the Waterford Whisperer to help them campaign, but I doubt they would get the joke.

Thomasirl123

peter kern wrote: »

but the fact remains that the EU did not change its order when it was clear that sanofi was not going to be able to supply the drug anytime soon.

https://www.augsburger-allgemeine.de/politik/Warum-hat-die-Europaeische-Union-nicht-mehr-Impfdosen-bestellt-id58850051.html

In Brüssel verpasste man die aktuelle Entwicklung. So bestellte die EU-Kommission beispielsweise bei Sanofi mit insgesamt 300 Millionen Dosen mehr als bei Biontech (200 plus eine Option auf 100 Millionen Dosen). Als der französische Konzern früh aus dem Rennen um ein schnell verfügbares Vakzin ausschied, schaltete man nicht um, sondern ließ die Dinge laufen.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/news/eu-says-it-has-secured-nearly-half-of-pfizers-2021-global-output-of-covid-19-vaccines-39946643.html

Fact is the EU have ordered 600 million doses!

listermint

Sam Russell wrote: »

Maybe they think the website will be useful for when other English speaking EU members are going to leave the EU because of the brilliant success that Brexit has been shown to be.

I suppose moving to Waterford might suggest which EU country that might be.

They could enlist the services of the Waterford Whisperer to help them campaign, but I doubt they would get the joke.

Make no mistake these sycophants will try to improve the UKs position by attempting to drive any wedges they can in the EU. They should be treated like digital terrorists. No I don't use that term lightly. The leaders of that site used personal data for their brexit campaign . Just because the UK courts handled it all with kid gloves and light touch doesn't mean we should.


Digital terrorists.

Got badly stung to the tune of €80 for import duties and customs charges today on a €130 worth of baby and maternity clothes from a well known massive UK retailer.

Won't be able to retain my business, as will obviously be switching to an irish or eu competitor in future. Extremely small fry in the run of things but I'm certain there will be a huge group effect on UK sales into the EU which will have a disastrous impact.

None of our lost custom will be evident in the days and weeks ahead. It will take a lot longer for impacts to be felt.

I would be extraordinarily impressed if the trade deals en route are enough to replace the lost markets.

reslfj

Thomasirl123 wrote: »

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/news/eu-says-it-has-secured-nearly-half-of-pfizers-2021-global-output-of-covid-19-vaccines-39946643.html

Fact is the EU have ordered 600 million doses!

BioNTech has a new factory in Magdeburg, Germany and it should be ready to produce already in February 2021.

"(BioNTech co-founder Ugur) Sahin said BioNTech aimed to get a new manufacturing facility in the German city of Marburg up and running in February, far earlier than planned,” that should then be able to churn out an additional 250 million doses in the first half of 2021."

The EU should get 75 million extra doses in 2021Q2 (source UvdL) and the remaining 225 million extra doses in Q3 and Q4.

Lars

https://www.timesofisrael.com/germanys-biontech-racing-to-ramp-up-vaccine-production-to-fill-gap/

Sam Russell

Deleted User wrote: »

I would be extraordinarily impressed if the trade deals en route are enough to replace the lost markets.

That cannot be, as the EU is the major market for their exports - approx. 50% so if they lose just 10% of those sales, they would have to get trade deals with many major states to get near that figure, and who could that be?

China - when they are having a major dispute over Hong Kong, and deploying the USA staffed aircraft carrier in the South China seas. Well, I think the most loony Brexiteer would see that as unlikely.

USA - well chlorinated chicken, GMO cereals, and antibiotic dosed beef says that if they go that route they lose the remnants of the EU trade.

Australia and NZ - it would not cover the postage.

I think GDP contraction is the most likely result, followed by a heavy fall in GBP exchange rates.

According to Mogg, it will be fifty tears before they see the benefits of Brexit. Of course by then those that voted for it will be dead or retired.