Brexit discussion thread XIII (Please read OP before posting)

druss wrote: »

I still like to read the 2016 Opus, at least once a month. Never fails to cheer me up.

Oh yes, thanks for reminding me of this. It is indeed wonderful.

ITV reporting on how Tesco, Boots, B & Q are all reviewing their EU operations - most surprised that Debenhams still have a trading website given they were essentially liquidated before Christmas:

https://www.itv.com/news/2021-01-07/debenhams-closes-online-business-in-ireland-as-50-major-uk-retailers-face-eu-tariffs

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Ah. I didn't realise you were with a UK firm.

I'd started applying for things in early 2020. Starting again now. Best of luck.

It isn't a UK firm as such, it is part of a global group mostly based in the UK and the top level of which is quasi-exclusively Brit. The level of Brit influence here was misrepresented to me in 2017, but it took until 2020 -and the 'Brexit' preparations- to became clearly apparent.

Imagine being an Irish national appointed M&S country director for France with a PhD in logistics and kids named after Incoterms...

...and being consulted no more than once or twice about Brexit in the last 2-3 years, giving pragmatic information and advice with objective & researched basis each time, but never getting any feedback (never mind seeing any of that advice followed), nor even any information about what is being planned -if anything at all- until a week or two from 31 Dec, then getting told to liaise with your suppliers and clients to try and explain the nuclear power plant of a setup that UK management dreamt up and which will all fall down like a card castle before summer 2021, all the while apologizing for the bare shelves.

Whilst the M&S France chairman yay's it all and nods happily for more.

That kind of toxic.

steddyeddy wrote: »

Jesus that sums up my days working in England well. Exceptionalism to me means the belief that one is deserving of more just for being who they are. Unfortunately this has the side effect of convincing the exceptionalist that they don't need to be effective, competent or in possession of all of the facts.

Hmm. Not necessarily. In many cases, I would say it is simply not understanding that there is a different, non British way of doing things. All the while the operation stays in the Britosphere, things tick along nicely, but should ever it come up against an alternative model, friction arises, sometimes sufficient to set the place on fire.

Some time ago I worked for an English contractor on a French project, officially employed as an interpreter so that they could tick a box and satisfy a French union demand. From the day I started to the day I left, the Big Boss could never get his head around the fact that I wasn't simply interpreting the words passing between the two worlds, but also the unspoken signals, warnings, advice and instructions. My own diplomatic cautions were brushed aside with a "we've worked on contracts all over the world ..." but he paid a high price for his blinkered vision - I was let go when he decided to save money by not paying me to work for him because one of the Portugese subcontractors spoke English and French. The union guy shut the operation down the following week. :pac:

This version of "not seeing things for what they are" exceptionalism isn't unique to the British, though. I inadvertently caught a long part of the streamed proceedings from the US Senate in the early hours of the morning and was struck by the number of contributors saying (about the mob rule) "this is not who we are, this is not America ..." and couldn't help thinking to myself "yep, that's exactly what the rest of the world thinks America is!"

So it was with the negotiations on the WA and the FTA: from the get-go, "London" was never able to get into the "Brussels" mindset, and completely failed (a) to understand just how strong a force the EU has become; and (b) that the EU's way of doing business was - and still is - a warm but clinical application of written rules. Sure, there's still a bit of old boys' networking that goes on from time to time, but nothing like the consensual buggery that we've seen in GB throughout the whole of 2020.

Irony, irony, irony.....

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/leave-eu-moves-to-ireland-to-keep-eu-suffix/06/01/

Enzokk wrote: »

Daily Mail is reporting on companies giving up on trade with the EU due to the deal.

https://twitter.com/david_conn/status/1347259787252269057?s=20

If this turns out even worse for the UK then I think you may see them moving towards a BRINO sooner rather than later. It is all fun and games until people start losing money. Then it becomes serious.

When The Daily Mail starts highlighting the negatives with Brexit then you know the wind is changing.

Stena temporarily cutting sailings on both Welsh routes:

https://twitter.com/SiCarswell/status/1347259962825826305

Nody wrote: »

I agree is utterly stupid and futile; but it will be phrased and placed as a way to make UK companies more competitive on the global market and allow UK strike out in a brave new world. I'm quite certain it will fail horribly and cost the UK economy even more but that's not the point; it's the freedom and dreams that make the senior brexiteers wet themselves at night over. Remember for them Brexit is not about reality but about their vision on how things should be with UK at the center of the world as in the "good old days".

I guess one of the reasons why Brexit was able to win was that it they simplified the message for people. So trying to tell someone why it is better to be in the EU when you are giving up some "sovereignty" will always be hard against, TAKE BACK CONTROL!

But the problem is very easy to explain now. Why aren't you exporting to the EU any longer? Brexit and extra cost. The solution from the Brexiters will be the complicated explanation. Try to explain why going WTO is simple and better in as few words as possible. Remember, Johnson sold his deal as being so good it will make trade even easier somehow.

A comprehensive Canada style free trade deal between the UK and the EU, a deal that will protect jobs across this country.

A deal that will allow UK goods and components to be sold without tariffs and without quotas in the EU market.

A deal which will if anything should allow our companies and our exporters to do even more business with our European friends.

And yet which achieves something that the people of this country instinctively knew was doable.

But which they were told was impossible.

We have taken back control of laws and our destiny.

We have taken back control of every jot and tittle of our regulation.

In a way that is complete and unfettered.

Prime Minister's statement on EU negotiations: 24 December 2020

So how do you explain that WTO is even better now all of a sudden? And that is why I think it will be harder for the Brexiters to claim their same lies again when people are hurting even more and the answer is easy on why, Brexit and barriers to trade.

So that is why I cannot really get behind the UK public going for the same again, then again I also didn't think the US public will that stupid to vote for Trump in 2016 so what do I know.

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Stena temporarily cutting sailings on both Welsh routes:

https://twitter.com/SiCarswell/status/1347259962825826305

Wonder if they'll have the cop on to redeploy these ships to Rosslare - France.

Jizique wrote: »

Isn’t right wing blogger Guido Faukes from Waterford (or Wexford)

I think he just moved there from England, but he does have Irish roots.