Work Problem

thefa

MrsBean wrote: »

That’s not the impression I got. The OP approached their manager about the issue first, asking if they can accommodate taking them off that task. They said ‘no and if you don’t do it, it will result in disciplinary’. As far as we know the OP continues to carry out their duties and is expected to have a formal meeting. To me, this is nowhere near final written warning, but is the start of a process which may get resolved amicably or may escalate to written warnings etc.

Your posts have come across quite antagonistic towards the OP and you are now derailing the thread with a combination of arguing with other posters and a long post about your career which is really just not helpful to the OP at all.

I think the confusion is that the OP stated that the manager had prepared a document outlining XYZ but the OP has also mentioned that there is little/nothing on email and no proof of conversation as all carried out on Zoom so am on the same wavelength as yourself.

haskellgeek

My question to the op is what is your bus factor like? If you left who takes this role is it a hard job to train and replace what you know? If it is or not offer to train a few people in what you in what it is and then get them to do it every so often as to keep the knowledge and skills

the14thwarrior

I'm going to take a short cut here to the issue at hand.

The manager has asked OP to take on a task, and the OP has refused.
It is getting escalated.

Unless you work in the HSE or civil service, and get to undergo mediation and look for some solutions, assuming the refusal is reasonable and tasks and job duties outlined, the OP will still need to do the task, albeit maybe with more training or time allowed. Be offered counselling and stress services.

If you work for a private company, most likely the above scenario is varied, but not as kind to the OP, and certainly will cause even more stress.

Just because someone is stressed / feels someone else could do it / company has a high turnover / lot of personal issues and under worry / etc. etc. the OP will still likely need to do the task.

If it significantly impacts on other duties, then this should be noted and documented so that taking on this additional duty won't be another reason to find fault with workloads.

The manager is probably well right to refer on. Tough but true.
we don't know if the manager is poor, good, has no options, has been told to get this duty assigned one way or the other, or to be honest, is assigning it to the very person he believes will get the job done.

beauf

Anyone I've seen in these kind of situations (out of character reports, even fabricated) from only one manager or team lead) always did better transferring to another team or manager.

Some people always create a lot of staff turnover on their teams. They are best kept at arms length, then tend to be toxic regardless if they are your manager or you theirs.

beauf

the14thwarrior wrote: »

....
The manager has asked OP to take on a task, and the OP has refused ...

That's not correct. They are doing it no? Isn't that the source of the stress?

beauf

antillia2020 wrote: »

... I did the training and even did the role for 3 months ... etc.

Yes?

the14thwarrior

beauf wrote: »

That's not correct. They are doing it no? Isn't that the source of the stress?

sorry, got that wrong. he is doing it but it is causing him high levels of stress, and now doesn't want to do it anymore.

and the rest of the post applies.

it seems odd that a manager can't find another solution but i guess if someone can't do a particular part of a job because of stress (and i'm sorry if that sounds harsh) then the rest of the post applies.

and yes, i'm a manager.
and yes, i've dealt with these situations.
and yes, if an employee came into me with a letter saying this new task was causing someone that much stress, i'd have to question the person's ability to do the whole job because the fear is the next time i ask them to do something else the same excuse will be trotted out.
These problems generally can't be solved easily until a bit of examination of everyone's view points is known.

Of course i would evaluate work loads and experience and I can't believe 100 or so other people could do it and somehow the OP has a problem with him being asked to do it. So this sounds off to me. Just not sure who is off, the OP or the manager?

unless it's something so awfully stressful and terrible, i'd question the OP motive for bringing in a GP cert for a task that needs to be done 2-3 times a month and causing high levels of stress

The extra task might be a sympthom not a cause of the OP stress but it doesn't change the fact.
And then no one would do the task because everyone would come in with a letter citing stress, and if you say yes to OP and no to them, another sh*t storm........

beauf

This is a bit like trying to batter a square peg into a round hole and blaming the peg for not working.

Then saying you won't use it for square holes either. It's just a bad peg.

The manager needs to fix the problem not the blame.

beauf

But OP this does explain why trying to deal with the issue rationally isn't going to work.

antillia2020

Thanks everyone for the input.

Just to be clear, I have not received any written on verbal warning at all. Absolutely zero.

The document I was asked to sign related to my last zoom meeting with manager where I asked for an escalation to management and he promised me that he will get back to me with their answer. But in our recent meeting I was not told anything the management said but he basically created a list of things I needed to improve on which were incorrect. He said that I always create problems, this is false looking at my false records, he mentioned I am not working in the best interest of customers , which again is false as I have been one of the top employees int the department.

I have not refused to the work , I have been doing it for 3 months now. I have asked if there is any chance they can not roster me shifts on that role for few months till things improve. Our rosters are done 2-3 weeks in advance. I have not actually been given that work to do and refused it.

Once again there are zero performance issues. I was awarded for my work just last month. I always hit targets or exceed them.

Someone mentioned why is it causing stress. I have spoken to 4 different doctors in last 2 months and all have said the stress is caused by work. When I told them who I worked for, they told me to find a new job. The problem isnt doing the shift 1-2 times a month, the problem is that is causes chest pains which do turn severe and last for weeks.

I have worked in 4-5 different roles in my department and always volunteer to move across them if there is extra work load/staff shortage. Always, have never said no.

I spoke to my manager that I was going through stressful period already this year before this role even came up. I had a death in the family which had a bad impact. So I was bit stressed already.

My current role is not easy by any means. Its very difficult. Its just that because I am doing it years I can get through it even with stress. But the new role had more workload so harder to manage.

OMM 0000

Are you open to any of his criticisms? Surely your extreme stress and personal issues could be affecting your work?

I can't see this having a happy ending if you refuse to believe there are any issues with your performance.

You need to find a middle ground.

antillia2020

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Are you open to any of his criticisms? Surely your extreme stress and personal issues could be affecting your work?

I can't see this having a happy ending if you refuse to believe there are any issues with your performance.

You need to find a middle ground.

I am open to feedback and criticism but not to false allegations.

If I had performance issues I would not be hitting/exceeding all my targets every single month. I am on track to hit/exceed targets this months also.

beauf

It makes zero sense to bully and force someone into a job/role if you think, (or know) they aren't doing it properly. Literally none.
It equally, makes no sense to say they are trying to force someone to fail and leave the role either. As thats exactly what the OP wants to do.

OMM 0000

antillia2020 wrote: »

I am open to feedback and criticism but not to false allegations.

If I had performance issues I would not be hitting/exceeding all my targets every single month. I am on track to hit/exceed targets this months also.

But only for certain parts of your job though, right? The issue seems to be you want to pick and choose what your job tasks are. And there may be attitude problems (due to your extreme stress) which you are ignoring.

Anyway, good luck.

GreeBo

Op you need to involve HR yourself and not rely on your manager to do it.

krissovo

OMM 0000 wrote: »

I'm clearly a poor manager?

I haven't said anything about how I manage, so let me tell you my management style now.

I'm CTO (and interim CEO) of a software company in Japan.

You are not a manager..... you are a leader, different situation and has layers of management between you and productive employees. A typical manager would have zero influence in Japan or Korea to change their workplace attitude from hard and fast rules.

OMM 0000

krissovo wrote: »

You are not a manager..... you are a leader, different situation and has layers of management between you and productive employees. A typical manager would have zero influence in Japan or Korea to change their workplace attitude from hard and fast rules.

I didn't start at CTO. I worked in management for about 10 years.

Also, CTOs and CEOs manage people.

krissovo

GreeBo wrote: »

Op you need to involve HR yourself and not rely on your manager to do it.

People tend to forget that the large multinationals have largely eliminated optimised local HR resources and passed the majority of the function to automated systems and empowered local managers. The local HR leads for a lot of multinationals in Ireland tend to be from the legal profession (you can check linkedin) who might be backed up by some recruitment specialists and junior generalists. The majority of on the ground HR staff are unable to deal with local disputes and rely on the management structure to resolve them.

krissovo

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Also, CTOs and CEOs manage people.

I have never met a CTO or CEO who manages people unless it's a very small organisation, certainly not in a multinational.

OMM 0000

krissovo wrote: »

I have never met a CTO or CEO who manages people unless it's a very small organisation, certainly not in a multinational.

Stop pretending C level people work in a bubble and don't have people reporting to them.

Let's take CTO as an example.

The company has a software development team, a QA team, a cyber security team, a DevOps team, a network and support team, etc. Each of these teams have managers or directors. These managers and directors report to the CTO. The CTO is also the indirect boss of everyone on each of these teams.

Please don't double down.

krissovo

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Stop pretending C level people work in a bubble and don't have people reporting to them.

Let's take CTO as an example.

The company has a software development team, a QA team, a cyber security team, a DevOps team, a network and support team, etc. Each of these teams have managers or directors. These managers and directors report to the CTO. The CTO is also the indirect boss of everyone on each of these teams.

Please don't double down.

I am a CTO, my job is to support CTO's accelerate IT transformation. I am sorry but I stand by what I said, they lead and empower. They do not "manage" their direct reports.

razorblunt

OP, looks like your thread has been sidetracked by waffle.

HR aren't always great but they tend to liaise more with senior management than middle management which you seem to have currently have the issue with. Escalate to management in the first instance and then be sure to loop in HR too, try to get everything in an email so it can be recorded too.
Make sure you ask for your manager to provide examples of you "not having the company's best interest at heart" and where he's brought this up with you.

Best of luck, with it.

OMM 0000

krissovo wrote: »

I am a CTO, my job is to support CTO's accelerate IT transformation. I am sorry but I stand by what I said, they lead and empower. They do not "manage" their direct reports.

Stop making things up. There are no staff who aren't managed. Even the CEO is managed by the board.

You admit in a previous post (a few days ago) that you work in a call centre.

I do not understand why people cannot admit they're wrong on the internet and have to resort to this nonsense.

I am not continuing this stupid conversation.

Jim2007

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Stop making things up. There are no staff who aren't managed. Even the CEO is managed by the board.

You admit in a previous post (a few days ago) that you work in a call centre.

I do not understand why people cannot admit they're wrong on the internet and have to resort to this nonsense.

I am not continuing this stupid conversation.

From your very first post on this thread you have made unsubstantiated negative assumptions about the OP.... I pity anyone that has to interact with you in the workplace, as you seem to be long on opinion and short on experience.

This is the second time you have promised us to stop following that thread, I for one would be happy if you follow through on your promise.

OMM 0000

Jim2007 wrote: »

From your very first post on this thread you have made unsubstantiated negative assumptions about the OP.... I pity anyone that has to interact with you in the workplace, as you seem to be long on opinion and short on experience.

This is the second time you have promised us to stop following that thread, I for one would be happy if you follow through on your promise.

Stop making things up.

1. My questions to the OP are to ensure he is being honest with himself about issues with his performance or attitude. If he goes into his HR meeting continuing to claim he is a perfect employee and unwilling to change, it's not going to go well for him. They are clearly making moves to fire him and he needs to take appropriate action. Telling them they're wrong and liars isn't going to work.

2. I have never promised I will stop following the thread, I said I will stop continuing specific weird unrelated conversations in the thread.

Jim2007 wrote: »

I pity anyone that has to interact with you in the workplace

Nice personal abuse, well done.

antillia2020

So for the second time my manager has failed on his promise.

I was promised that management will get back to me regarding the decision in first week of July. No one contacted me.

Again this weekI was promised a meeting early this week and no one has even contected me again.

He was supposed to look into something for me month ago not related to this and he is still to get back to me on that a month later.

Would I be right in making a formal document listing a details so far and made a formal request?

beauf

At this point while it's good to have this documented in an email etc. As soon as you do that you might be burning bridges you can't rebuild. Just to be aware of that. Maybe you feel your past the point of no return anyway.

antillia2020

beauf wrote: »

At this point while it's good to have this documented in an email etc. As soon as you do that you might be burning bridges you can't rebuild. Just to be aware of that. Maybe you feel your past the point of no return anyway.

All I have emailed in writing is to my manager and have asked him to forward to management.

I didnt blame anyone in it. I just explained my issue and that I am still waiting for a decision from management.

I also explained in the case they cant accomodate my request, just let me know. I dont expect them too but would appreciate it considering my record at work for last 5 years. I have asked for 3 months break from that role which is about 7-8 shifts overall that too if required. I have told them I wont expect them to accomodate this any further.

In the case they cant, I will try and do the work when rostered but if its impacting my health even further I will have to give importance to my health.

krissovo

OMM 0000 wrote: »

You admit in a previous post (a few days ago) that you work in a call centre.

I do not work in a call center and its 10 years since I did so not sure where this came from. Unless you are referring to a 3rd line engineering team I might have referenced.

GreeBo

krissovo wrote: »

People tend to forget that the large multinationals have largely eliminated optimised local HR resources and passed the majority of the function to automated systems and empowered local managers. The local HR leads for a lot of multinationals in Ireland tend to be from the legal profession (you can check linkedin) who might be backed up by some recruitment specialists and junior generalists. The majority of on the ground HR staff are unable to deal with local disputes and rely on the management structure to resolve them.

thats not the case in any of the large multi nationals I have worked with.
In any case, if there is a local HR, you should involve them.