Work Problem

antillia2020

Hi,

Sorry its a long post. Would appreciate some help.

I have been working for a multinational for about 5 years now. I have cross trained in various roles in my department which I have done for the past 5 years. However in April I was asked to work in an additional role part of the same department which has caused stress levels to go insanely high.

I only do this role 2-3 times a months and can easily be covered by another employee as its a multinational with 100+ employees in same department. I have been suffering from health issue since I started doing that, increased stress levels resulting in chest pains for last 3-4 months.

My GP and a hospital doctor also confirmed that it is due to stress.

Its been a bad year overall with a death in family, Covid and then this. I decided to talk to my manager to see if he can accommodate me being taken off that role until end of the year until things calm down. I even provided them with doctors letter.

They came back to me saying that I have to do it otherwise will result in disciplinary and termination. He prepared a document saying I refused to do the additional role but did not mention the reason why I was asking for it. He also decided to make up a few things as well saying I always refuse to adapt to change and am not working in the companys best interests etc.

This is all false , I have been with the company 5 years and have worked in several roles in my departments without issues. Not a single sick day or late in 5 years.

I have asked for a meeting with management as I wanted to escalate this.

Would appreciate if someone can help with this? Can they fire me for this? My manager clearly provided false info to management and added stuff to it that was never even mentioned by me.

Where do I stand in this situation?

RedXIV

Ideally here you'd be able to show your original contract that this activity is outside the scope of your contracted work. Could go to HR and discuss it with them? If you're generally not seen as a trouble maker and you've a clean record of 5 years, hard to imagine HR will stone wall you.

antillia2020

RedXIV wrote: »

Ideally here you'd be able to show your original contract that this activity is outside the scope of your contracted work. Could go to HR and discuss it with them? If you're generally not seen as a trouble maker and you've a clean record of 5 years, hard to imagine HR will stone wall you.

The contract does say that duties can change within same department although the core role is same. Its only 2-3 days a month and can easily be covered by another employee.

I have a 100% clean record.

The stress levels of it are very high therefore I am even considering quitting but a disciplinary which is on false accusations will give me a bad reference if it does lead to that.

thefa

Sorry to hear about the stress it’s causing and the impact on your health. Surprised the direction your manager is heading considering it seems like a situation where others would be signing off for.

Just a few thoughts:
-Did you take a new position/promotion/raise which resulted in the additional role or are you still on previous terms?

-Do you have previous positive annual/half-year reviews from that manager or other managers in the department?

-Have you actually refused to do the role yet (as per managers document) or can show any of his/her claims are false with emails, etc?

MrsBean

You say that this role can be easily covered by another employee, yet it is something that is causing you considerable stress - is that because an error would have serious repercussions? What is the cause of the stress? If it is something that you feel uncomfortable with, or that you feel inadequately trained for then you should express that and perhaps they can provide training to make you more at ease with it.

antillia2020

thefa wrote: »

Sorry to hear about the stress it’s causing and the impact on your health. Surprised the direction your manager is heading considering it seems like a situation where others would be signing off for.

Just a few thoughts:
-Did you take a new position/promotion/raise which resulted in the additional role or are you still on previous terms?

-Do you have previous positive annual/half-year reviews from that manager or other managers in the department?

-Have you actually refused to do the role yet (as per managers document) or can show any of his claims are false with emails, etc?

No same position and pay. Same terms.

All my quarterly review are positive with hitting or exceeding targets from other managers in past and this current manager.

I did refuse saying that I can get a doctors letter to say that I am suffering from stress due to that particular work role so that could be my last option if the company cant accommodate my request.

I have been with company 5 years and never missed a day up until 2 weeks back when the doctors asked me to take time out for few days and gave me a cert which was sent to employer.

I do not have prove but he doesnt either to prove the same as all meetings have been over Zoom so there are no emails. I do have emails where I asked if I could be taken off the training for the role due to personal issues at the time but was told its part of the job so I did the training and even did the role for 3 months but one of the accusations he made is I refused to do training etc.

antillia2020

MrsBean wrote: »

You say that this role can be easily covered by another employee, yet it is something that is causing you considerable stress - is that because an error would have serious repercussions? What is the cause of the stress? If it is something that you feel uncomfortable with, or that you feel inadequately trained for then you should express that and perhaps they can provide training to make you more at ease with it.

There are employees who are hired for that exact role who can cover that. In addition there are other crossed employees who are not going through same issues as me personally. Its multiple contacts at same time and one error can lead to big fines for the company.

The workload is too much, I was already going through personal issues due to a death in family, then Covid therefore the extended workload and duties have caused immense stress.

MrsBean

antillia2020 wrote: »

There are employees who are hired for that exact role who can cover that. Its multiple contacts at same time and one error can lead to big fines for the company.

The workload is too much, I was already going through personal issues due to a death in family, then Covid therefore the extended workload and duties have caused immense stress.

If it does come to a disciplinary try to stay cool calm and collected. Although I know it's probably quite difficult if you're going through a stressful period in your life. Don't go worrying about being fired just yet and take everything day by day. A disciplinary isn't just a chance for management to shout you down, you have an opportunity to respond too. His false allegations don't sound very specific. I would want to know exactly when and how I resisted change or went against the interests of the company. Sounds like bratty management speak to me to try and get you to fall in line. A lot of managers would do well to show a little empathy to their staff when they express issues such as you have, particularly if you are an employee with a good official record who is going through a stressful time.

thefa

antillia2020 wrote: »

No same position and pay. Same terms.

All my quarterly review are positive with hitting or exceeding targets from other managers in past and this current manager.

I did refuse saying that I can get a doctors letter to say that I am suffering from stress due to that particular work role so that could be my last option if the company cant accommodate my request.

I have been with company 5 years and never missed a day up until 2 weeks back when the doctors asked me to take time out for few days and gave me a cert which was sent to employer.

I do not have prove but he doesnt either to prove the same as all meetings have been over Zoom so there are no emails. I do have emails where I asked if I could be taken off the training for the role due to personal issues at the time but was told its part of the job so I did the training and even did the role for 3 months but one of the accusations he made is I refused to do training etc.

Given all you’ve said in the thread, the manager’s reaction seems poor and intimidating in a way if threatening disciplinary action given the circumstances. Have you considered contacting HR or even following up your conversation by email to your manager, stating all that you outlined in the Zoom call and asking for further clarification on the document being prepared on deemed poor performance, etc which contradicts your reviews?

antillia2020

Thanks guys. I have asked for a meeting with management of the department. Hopefully they will understand my situation.

The management knows me well and even awarded me for my work recently and I have been appreciated by other managers also for my productivity. I can prove my manager wrong, but afraid just might be a case of the management taking a managers side as oppose to an employees.

OMM 0000

I'm sorry if this isn't the answer you want, but you really need to look deeply to see if you're being honest with yourself.

I've been a manager a long time and it never ceases to amaze me how deluded people are about their attitude, performance, etc.

As an example, we had a staff member who was a drug addict (high and asleep at her desk every day for nine months). We did everything we could to help her, but she started sending porn to people so we had to fire her. To this day she still says we were insane and unreasonable. But if you objectively look at how we handled her, we could not have been more kind and patient.

Regardless, I wish you good luck.

antillia2020

OMM 0000 wrote: »

I'm sorry if this isn't the answer you want, but you really need to look deeply to see if you're being honest with yourself.

I've been a manager a long time and it never ceases to amaze me how deluded people are about their attitude, performance, etc.

As an example, we had a staff member who was a drug addict (high and asleep at her desk every day for nine months). We did everything we could to help her, but she started sending porn to people so we had to fire her. To this day she still says we were insane and unreasonable. But if you objectively look at how we handled her, we could not have been more kind and patient.

Regardless, I wish you good luck.

That is completely different to my case. As I have mentioned above, I have always delivered or exceeded targets in work and have been praised for my performance by several managers including the one I am having issues with now. As well as that the management has praised my work in recent past.

I am with the company 5 years, its a stressful job with very high turnover in staff. I am one of the oldest employees in my department with just 5 years in it - this is with a multinational company. No one sticks around and just leave due to workload or poor treatment of staff.

The managers are not trained properly and do not have the skills required to manage people. Anyone can apply for these jobs including myself and they can get them.

Jim2007

OMM 0000 wrote: »

I've been a manager a long time and it never ceases to amaze me how deluded people are about their attitude, performance, etc.

And it never ceases to amaze me the number of managers who do not understand the laws of defamation and how they can find themselves personally being held to account before the courts for their statements in the review process.

I have found that evaluations can suddenly be revised or even withdrawn after a little discussion with them.

OMM 0000

antillia2020 wrote: »

That is completely different to my case. As I have mentioned above, I have always delivered or exceeded targets in work and have been praised for my performance by several managers including the one I am having issues with now. As well as that the management has praised my work in recent past.

I am with the company 5 years, its a stressful job with very high turnover in staff. I am one of the oldest employees in my department with just 5 years in it - this is with a multinational company. No one sticks around and just leave due to workload or poor treatment of staff.

The managers are not trained properly and do not have the skills required to manage people. Anyone can apply for these jobs including myself and they can get them.

Is it possible your performance and attitude have degraded a lot in the last few months?

daheff

i think you should formally instigate a bullying complaint about this manager.

Check your company handbook on what constitutes bullying.

Intimidation is normally a cause for this. Why are you on the receiving end of this but not your work colleagues?


And I'd be very sure to tell HR of the stress this particular role is causing (and your doctor).

antillia2020

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Is it possible your performance and attitude have degraded a lot in the last few months?

Definitely not. It has improved month on month as we have monthly reviews. I was awarded for good work just last month by management. Thats out of 200+ people working in the department so my performance in not an issue.

Attitude wise, I have had the same attitude last 5 years in work. I dont agree to whats wrong and always make sure I voice my opinion without disrespecting anyone. I dont see anything wrong in that. Has been same throughout the 5 years.

antillia2020

daheff wrote: »

i think you should formally instigate a bullying complaint about this manager.

Check your company handbook on what constitutes bullying.

Intimidation is normally a cause for this. Why are you on the receiving end of this but not your work colleagues?


And I'd be very sure to tell HR of the stress this particular role is causing (and your doctor).

That is the plan. I have my performance records to prove myself.

I asked for a meeting with management who are the next level of escalation after my manager. I asked for it as soon as possible and was promised it early this week. So now its just a waiting game.

I am only worried about them taking his side as he is senior and had worked a few more years with the company. Just hoping that is not the case.

This exact company mentions employee mental health regularly and how it is important to them and always ask us to approach our manager if we have any concern. That is exactly what I did so if they put a disciplinary against me for raising a health and safety concern that wont be fair.

OMM 0000

antillia2020 wrote: »

I was awarded for good work just last month by management. Thats out of 200+ people working in the department so my performance in not an issue.

That's very odd so.

I agree with your strategy to escalate to a meeting with management.

Is there anything you're leaving out? For example, do you have a history or arguing with your manager? Did anything happen recently which could have caused him to take issue with you?

beauf

I'm not sure I would rely on HR to have my back. But you probably have no choice here.

I would try to get the job done some other way. Recruit a colleague to help "if possible"etc. A problem shared and all that.

antillia2020

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Is there anything you're leaving out? For example, do you have a history or arguing with your manager? Did anything happen recently which could have caused him to take issue with you?

No I do not. However if I have a concern I always raise it but not too often. We have a had good relationship. As working from home so only talk once a month for performance reviews which go well.

antillia2020

beauf wrote: »

I'm not sure I would rely on HR to have my back. But you probably have no choice here.

I would try to get the job done some other way. Recruit a colleague to help "if possible"etc. A problem shared and all that.

It is a very stressful job, no a single one person working like the job due to the stress it causes but dont have a choice as need to pay bills.

Yeah I am not expecting them to take my side either but the manager cannot prove any of the allegations he made but I have proof to prove them wrong.

As he could not accommodate my issue I explained I would appreciate if he could escalate to management he was supposed to get back to me regarding that in last meeting but instead of that he had a documents prepared which listed a number of problem I had which were all false.

beauf

Maybe hes having a breakdown or some issue. Not impossible either.

Never easy when there been a lot of stress at home, then its doubled down at work. Never rains but it pours.

Certainly a time for dotting the i's and crossing the T's.

hello2020

antillia2020 wrote: »

Definitely not. It has improved month on month as we have monthly reviews. I was awarded for good work just last month by management. Thats out of 200+ people working in the department so my performance in not an issue.

may be your good work is overshadowing your manager and he is not able to handle your success !! r u about to get promoted or something ??

bullpost

antillia2020 wrote: »

It is a very stressful job, no a single one person working like the job due to the stress it causes but dont have a choice as need to pay bills.

Yeah I am not expecting them to take my side either but the manager cannot prove any of the allegations he made but I have proof to prove them wrong.

As he could not accommodate my issue I explained I would appreciate if he could escalate to management he was supposed to get back to me regarding that in last meeting but instead of that he had a documents prepared which listed a number of problem I had which were all false.

Be polite and friendly at the meeting . Demonstrate you are there to resolve this obvious misunderstanding.
Dont count on HR being on your side - in fact its probably best to assume they are not. Stick to the facts - if there are unfounded allegations ,keep referring to your performance reviews and state how you feel you are a dedicated employee and that your performance reviews over a long period of time confirm this.

Ask for meeting to be minuted.If it goes South, you may at future meetings have to let them know nicely that you are not going silently by subtly introducing terms like " constructive dismissal " etc. That will strike fear into many a HR dept.

krissovo

If you get your meeting with Senior Management can you bring a possible solution to the table rather than just a problem statement?

I find if you have a reasonable solution in situations like this senior management are more than likely to run with it rather than let it become their problem. Also are there reasons why this task particularly stressful? What would it make it not stressful for you to do that task? Is it training or just a crap task that drives you crazy.

gailforecast

Hey OP, I was in a scenario a while back that was sort of similar. Trouble sleeping, stomach pains, back pains, neck pains, trouble keeping food down. The doctor immediately sent me to A/E and I went through a battery of CT scans, xrays, blood works, essentially the works. Everything was negative and the discharging doctor asked me was I stressed, and bingo. Everything was a manifestation of that. I ended up packing that job in. My health was too important. So is yours. If they won’t meet you half way, pull the plug.

Gemancy

Sorry to read about your work and personal issues OP.

Do you have an occupational health service? Most multinationals will have access to one if not an on-site service.

Stress in itself is a symptom of an issue/illness as opposed to an illness in itself. Combined with your recent bereavement etc. and increased workload your ability to deal with stress has obviously been diminished, which is completely understandable and normal. It’s important to identify all the stress triggers in your life, both personal and work related so you can try to control and manage those within your ability to do so.

Unexpected and/or traumatic events can cause even minor issues in our lives to become overwhelming. Equally, poor management at work, not recognising when a colleague is overloaded despite you taking the brave step to acknowledge same is very detrimental and frustrating. From what you have posted you sound like you are being reasonable. Your manager seems oblivious. Even putting your personal issues aside, the fact that an employee has flagged that they are struggling warrants at least some (non-punitive) intervention.

See if you can get a referral to the occ health physician and perhaps they might make some recommendations to your HR department. Occ health is independent to your employer even if they are employed/retained by them.

If you have been there 5 years and have liked it up until recently, I wouldn’t rush out the door until you have tried to change it. If you have a decent Hr department they are not going to jump to the decision to fire you! Remember though, life is short and your health is the most important thing so put that first and foremost.

Good luck

OMM 0000

OMM 0000 wrote: »

That's very odd so.

I agree with your strategy to escalate to a meeting with management.

Is there anything you're leaving out? For example, do you have a history or arguing with your manager? Did anything happen recently which could have caused him to take issue with you?

You’re determined to make him the problem aren’t you?

beauf

beauf wrote: »

I'm not sure I would rely on HR to have my back. But you probably have no choice here.

I would try to get the job done some other way. Recruit a colleague to help "if possible"etc. A problem shared and all that.

Exactly this, always be wary of HR they tend to be there for the company and not the employees. Do no meetings without a witness you nominate yourself.

OMM 0000

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

You’re determined to make him the problem aren’t you?

No I'm trying to ensure we are getting the full picture.

I know almost everyone on boards think managers are stupid and evil, but they're not. In almost every case, especially at multinationals, when HR and management are disciplining a staff member, there is some basis to it.

I've been a manager a long time, and in my experience almost no employees are able to be honest with themselves about their bad attitude or poor performance. I've worked with many managers and it's the same problem over and over - (for example) the person who comes in late, surfs the web all day, smells of booze every Thursday, does crappy work... eventually they get disciplined and they act the victim and pretend it's all totally undeserved.

So in this situation we have a person saying their performance is basically perfect yet HR and their manager have a problem with them... such a problem in fact that they are at risk of being fired.

Isn't it quite likely we're not getting the full story?

OMM 0000

OMM 0000 wrote: »

No I'm trying to ensure we are getting the full picture.

I know almost everyone on boards think managers are stupid and evil, but they're not. In almost every case, especially at multinationals, when HR and management are disciplining a staff member, there is some basis to it.

I've been a manager a long time, and in my experience almost no employees are able to be honest with themselves about their bad attitude or poor performance. I've worked with many managers and it's the same problem over and over - (for example) the person who comes in late, surfs the web all day, smells of booze every Thursday, does crappy work... eventually they get disciplined and they act the victim and pretend it's all totally undeserved.

So in this situation we have a person saying their performance is basically perfect yet HR and their manager have a problem with them... such a problem in fact that they are at risk of being fired.

Isn't it quite likely we're not getting the full story?

Seems quite likely we are getting the full story. The OP has been more than willing to answer anything you’ve grilled them about.

OMM 0000

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Seems quite likely we are getting the full story. The OP has been more than willing to answer anything you’ve grilled them about.

Stop pretending I'm grilling the OP.

It's very likely we haven't got the full story. When you become a manager you'll understand. Most people are in denial about who they really are.

I'm not continuing this conversation with you.

OMM 0000

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Stop pretending I'm grilling the OP.

It's very likely we haven't got the full story. When you become a manager you'll understand. Most people are in denial about who they really are.

I'm not continuing this conversation with you.

Last word. You’re a manager alright.

You’ve done nothing except try to paint the OP s being at fault. Won’t even entertain what they’re saying is true because you clearly see managers as better people who can’t possibly be wrong. You’re obviously very special, being a manager and all.

antillia2020

OMM 0000 wrote: »

.

So in this situation we have a person saying their performance is basically perfect yet HR and their manager have a problem with them... such a problem in fact that they are at risk of being fired.

Isn't it quite likely we're not getting the full story?

Stop assuming. The HR does not have any problems with me. The manager did not either up until recently when I raised a health concern. As I mentioned before they are not trained to manage people so instead of finding a resolution he decided to make up false stuff about me to cover himself up.

As I mentioned above, I do not have any issues, 5 years working with company and never had a single late or sick day. I took two weeks off this month as it was strongly suggested by doctor.

As for performance again as I mentioned I was awarded for my performance just last month from out of 200+ employees. I am hitting my targets/exceeding them every month.

So kindly stop assuming there is an issue with me when this is definitely not the case.

antillia2020

hello2020 wrote: »

may be your good work is overshadowing your manager and he is not able to handle your success !! r u about to get promoted or something ??

I am good at work and he has acknowledged this as well. No promotions etc.

antillia2020

krissovo wrote: »

If you get your meeting with Senior Management can you bring a possible solution to the table rather than just a problem statement?

I find if you have a reasonable solution in situations like this senior management are more than likely to run with it rather than let it become their problem. Also are there reasons why this task particularly stressful? What would it make it not stressful for you to do that task? Is it training or just a crap task that drives you crazy.

That is what I am looking for a solution. I dont want to create an issue, it was never my intention.

The role that I am struggling with is different part of the department. The workload is insane and not easy to handle. The turnover in staff is very high with someone leaving almost every week.

beauf

Gemancy wrote: »

Sorry to read about your work and personal issues OP.

Do you have an occupational health service? Most multinationals will have access to one if not an on-site service.

Stress in itself is a symptom of an issue/illness as opposed to an illness in itself. Combined with your recent bereavement etc. and increased workload your ability to deal with stress has obviously been diminished, which is completely understandable and normal. It’s important to identify all the stress triggers in your life, both personal and work related so you can try to control and manage those within your ability to do so.

Unexpected and/or traumatic events can cause even minor issues in our lives to become overwhelming. Equally, poor management at work, not recognising when a colleague is overloaded despite you taking the brave step to acknowledge same is very detrimental and frustrating. From what you have posted you sound like you are being reasonable. Your manager seems oblivious. Even putting your personal issues aside, the fact that an employee has flagged that they are struggling warrants at least some (non-punitive) intervention.

See if you can get a referral to the occ health physician and perhaps they might make some recommendations to your HR department. Occ health is independent to your employer even if they are employed/retained by them.

If you have been there 5 years and have liked it up until recently, I wouldn’t rush out the door until you have tried to change it. If you have a decent Hr department they are not going to jump to the decision to fire you! Remember though, life is short and your health is the most important thing so put that first and foremost.

Good luck

Good advice here. Even if it makes you stop and take action for the stress. Not a simple or easy situation though.

MrMusician18

OMM 0000 wrote: »

No I'm trying to ensure we are getting the full picture.

I know almost everyone on boards think managers are stupid and evil, but they're not. In almost every case, especially at multinationals, when HR and management are disciplining a staff member, there is some basis to it.

I've been a manager a long time, and in my experience almost no employees are able to be honest with themselves about their bad attitude or poor performance. I've worked with many managers and it's the same problem over and over - (for example) the person who comes in late, surfs the web all day, smells of booze every Thursday, does crappy work... eventually they get disciplined and they act the victim and pretend it's all totally undeserved.

So in this situation we have a person saying their performance is basically perfect yet HR and their manager have a problem with them... such a problem in fact that they are at risk of being fired.

Isn't it quite likely we're not getting the full story?

Aside from substance abuse issues, the issues you highlight there are more often due to a lack of motivation. This is usually down to a lack of manager support, a lack of training or sometimes down to a lack of a real role for the employee. Having suffered the latter myself, that can be a real demoraliser.

Just a word of warning to the OP. Some managers really resent personal issues being brought into the workplace. I know of one person where they were suffering a breakdown in their marriage and was highly stressed at work and asked to be cut some slack. Sympathy and understanding were forthcoming from management but that individual ended up being managed out of a job within the year.

kaymin

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Stop pretending I'm grilling the OP.

It's very likely we haven't got the full story. When you become a manager you'll understand. Most people are in denial about who they really are.

I'm not continuing this conversation with you.

I've been a manager for 20 years and I can't say I understand. Some / many managers are morons. Many are on a power trip and don't like to hear anything that contradicts their self-belief.

hello2020

antillia2020 wrote: »

I am good at work and he has acknowledged this as well. No promotions etc.

may be you being too good at work is making him insecure and he is trying to put u in hard position to show u in poor light ....

jimmycrackcorm

antillia2020 wrote: »

That is what I am looking for a solution. I dont want to create an issue, it was never my intention.

The role that I am struggling with is different part of the department. The workload is insane and not easy to handle. The turnover in staff is very high with someone leaving almost every week.

From your managers perspective, is this just not something you should be able to deal with, especially if it is only 2-3 times a month? His reaction seems to be that you're unwilling to pitch in and are trying to fob it off.

I can understand the stress angle if that was every day of the week. From another point of view, perhaps your normal role is vastly easier than this other task; so it might be a lot easier to perform well in, as you are doing.

the-island-man

I've been in a similar position for the last while in my workplace which is also a multinational.

I don't know if I'm an expert as it's still playing out and who knows it could be the case that I'm being managed out of the job over time like another poster mentioned.

My advice would be to take some time before going to HR. You said that your manager told you they are preparing a statement but it sounds like there's no documented proof of this? It's just over a phone conversation with no witnesses? Also I think I've seen before that to prove that you're being bullied\intimidated you have to show a sustained period of I'll treatment or harassment over time rather than a one off occasion.

Try to get away from private conversations as much as possible with them. Preferably try get as much communication through Email so there's a record. Even going as far as sending an Email to get confirmation of a conversation had.

Another thing I would do is to contact HR to seek out any Employee handbook or HR policies in existence. Usually Multi-nationals always have these supplementary documents that go along with your employment contract which cover acceptable conduct and employee welfare. You need to swat up on these documents to know what is expected of every employee (your manager is an Employee too). The companies corporate values should also be important in this regard. This is knowledge you need to know so you can reference it if this does go to a formal complaint by either yourself or the manager.

Finally in my case I went to OCC Health about the stress. My manager tried to initially fob me off but I persisted. In my view this created a record at the company level and could potentially work in your favour as it would make the company wary of a lawsuit. There might be differing opinions on this. Some would think it could end any chance of promotion in the future but I think stress is to serious an issue to ignore.

the-island-man

OMM 0000 wrote: »

It's very likely we haven't got the full story. When you become a manager you'll understand. Most people are in denial about who they really are.

Isn't the well trotted out bs line in Multi-nationals nowadays to "assume positive intent". I'm reassured that you are a great manager if your default thought is that most people are in denial about who they really are.

We can't know everything about the Employee or the Manager in this scenario. All we are doing is assuming the positive intent of the OP and believe what they are saying.

You may find a better place to help in a thread created by a beleaguered manager?

qwerty13

I’m sorry to be posting as cynically as I am - but your time in this particular workplace is over.

HR exist to protect the company from legal stuff, be that ‘required (ie tick box) training’, or alleged arbitrators re employer/employee disputes. They are going to protect your manager, not you.

I know you’ve said that you have back-up stuff, but make sure it’s in writing. And print it off to bring with you to any meetings. You need to follow the grievance process to the absolute letter. If they don’t (and I suspect they won’t), then that plays into your hand.

If they’re a US company, I’ve seen time and again how higher-ups don’t appear to feel the need to adhere to European employment laws. Again, this potentially plays into your hand.

If you happen to work in a fund administration role for a US company, I’d not worry about leaving or references - because they often employ people on low salaries with inadequate training, and that is well known.

rock22

antillia2020 wrote: »

.....

I did refuse saying that I can get a doctors letter to say that I am suffering from stress due to that particular work role so that could be my last option if the company cant accommodate my request.

...

If you have refused your managers request to do the work, and you have provided a doctor's letter essentially saying you cannot now do that work, the employer can justifiably let you go.

OMM 0000

antillia2020 wrote: »

Stop assuming. The HR does not have any problems with me.

HR does, you just don't know it yet. There is a process to things like this, unless your manager is a complete clown, which he may be.

Stepping Stone

OMM 0000 wrote: »

I've been a manager a long time, and in my experience almost no employees are able to be honest with themselves about their bad attitude or poor performance. I've worked with many managers and it's the same problem over and over - (for example) the person who comes in late, surfs the web all day, smells of booze every Thursday, does crappy work... eventually they get disciplined and they act the victim and pretend it's all totally undeserved.

Where do you work? In my almost 20 years of work I haven’t seen behaviour like that since I was a teenager working with other teenagers. It’s really, really not normal in a professional place of work.

In my current place, it’s really chilled out and as long as the work gets done to a high standard, on time everyone is happy. Managers are completely normal and I can’t think of a single incidence of anything like this happening. We’re grown adults and I assume that HR and hiring managers weed out the issues at recruitment. Honestly, sounds like a bloody nightmare place to work. As a manager, you have a duty to ensure that your direct reports don’t have to deal with those issues, never mind letting them go on for months. Piss poor management at work I am afraid. Honestly, get another job in a professional environment. It’ll be a lot better.

OMM 0000

In 20 years you've never worked with someone who comes in late and surfs the web all day? I find that hard to believe. If you aren't able to notice that, you probably aren't noticing the hangovers either.

Stepping Stone

OMM 0000 wrote: »

In 20 years you've never worked with someone who comes in late and surfs the web all day? I find that hard to believe. If you aren't able to notice that, you probably aren't noticing the hangovers either.

I have, just not since I was a teenager. I work in an industry with easy to measure targets. The more experience that I have, the better the workplace. I briefly worked in unprofessional places, but I quit after a week. You always know that if management is poor, then the staff will be poor too.

Like I said, as long as the work gets done, management are very relaxed in my place. They’re flexible about what you wear, working from home, hours, etc. But and it’s a big but, we’re all adults. We’re expected to behave in a certain way and we do it. If someone was asleep at their desk, I may leave it slide once but if they reported to my manager and it happened again I would be asking them for a chat to discuss what was happening. You can’t tell me that you think that it’s normal for this kind of thing to happen in the workplace and no action to be immediately taken? Come on, you had a cocaine addict asleep at her desk for months. How do you think that made everyone else feel? No wonder you have issues with people browsing the internet and coming in drunk or hungover. It’s really, really poor people management and surely you know that? Don’t you have training on how to get the best out of people and how to ensure that issues are resolved? As a normal employee in my company we get a lot of training on managing performance. Management get a hell of a lot more and it shows.

OMM 0000

Stepping Stone wrote: »

Come on, you had a cocaine addict asleep at her desk for months. How do you think that made everyone else feel? No wonder you have issues with people browsing the internet and coming in drunk or hungover. It’s really, really poor people management and surely you know that?

The company was a huge multinational and they have a process for dealing with addiction.

In every company I've worked in, there are people who come in late or who surf the web all day.

It is not believable you have never had colleagues who do this in nearly 20 years. I think the far more likely explanation is you're oblivious to it.

Stepping Stone

OMM 0000 wrote: »

The company was a huge multinational and they have a process for dealing with addiction.

In every company I've worked in, there are people who come in late or who surf the web all day.

It is not believable you have never had colleagues who do this in nearly 20 years. I think the far more likely explanation is you're oblivious to it.

Ah here, people sleeping at the desk, coming in drunk or hungover and spending the day surfing the net are not normal. It may be a large multinational, but poor management is poor management. The OP works for a large multinational too and seems to be having issues with poor management. They clearly said as much. It may very well be a case of the Peter Principle, I don’t know but what you see as appropriate is just not tolerated in most places.