Barry Cowen sacked

Bass Reeves

generalgerry wrote: »

This is the key for me. How does he get his story buried, when Clare Daly is wall to wall even before she is actually found innocent of the same charge?

I would be interested in a poll to see how many people believe that Michael Martin knew about this when it happened. I find it very hard to believe that he didn't. I mean when Mick Wallace was caught on his mobile phone it went straight up the blue grapevine to the Commissioner very quickly. Are we supposed to believe that no Guard / FFer / local / member of dept Justice told Michael Martin this?

I think he could not be seen to have known about it and kept it quiet, so the lesser of two evils was to wait for the story to break and then pretend that he didn't know about it. But then they have kept the killer of Mary Boyle safe for many decades to protect the reputation of the party, so what would you expect from FF.

It was a fixed charge notice, because he was between 20&50 he got an automatic 12 penalty points. This gave him a 3 month driving ban. UT did not appear in court.

Yes at time the guards published details if arrests and incidents they should not have that is no reason to consider this a cover-up equivalent to Watergate

Darc19

Bowie wrote: »

Except instead of speeding it was for drinking and being over the limit.
Shameful but not the most important part. Is MM lying about only hearing about it? How come it wasn't a news item at the time, why now? Are the media treatng different people differently when you compare Clare Daly's treatment?

Again you and others don't seem to understand what a fixed penalty notice is.

No one except those in the car and the Garda stopping him would know.

Clare daly did an illegal u turn, FAILED a roadside breath test, was "unable" to give a breath test in the station, choose to provide a blood test which meant a delay of 2 hours.
She played the system - exactly what she was campaigning against.

Gooey Looey

Darc19 wrote: »

Again you and others don't seem to understand what a fixed penalty notice is.

No one except those in the car and the Garda stopping him would know.

Clare daly did an illegal u turn, FAILED a roadside breath test, was "unable" to give a breath test in the station, choose to provide a blood test which meant a delay of 2 hours.
She played the system - exactly what she was campaigning against.

OMG, do you not see the hypocrisy in the fact that the media were alerted before she was even released from custody without charge?

We've had all the different types of FF apologists here. Ah shur he was barely over the limit. Ah shur the limit was low because he was on a provisional license. Ah shur it was 4 years ago. Ah shur it was all over the media at the time. Ah shur it was a fixed penalty notice nobody but the occupants of the car and the Gardai could ever know!

McMurphy

Darc19 wrote: »

Again you and others don't seem to understand what a fixed penalty notice is.

No one except those in the car and the Garda stopping him would know.

Clare daly did an illegal u turn, FAILED a roadside breath test, was "unable" to give a breath test in the station, choose to provide a blood test which meant a delay of 2 hours.
She played the system - exactly what she was campaigning against.

Doesn't matter if Clare Daly did a jobby in her handbag at the side of the road when stopped - she wasn't even charged, yet alone receive a fixed penalty notice, it seems the guards where basically "getting their own back" on her because of her past transgressions regarding whistleblowers. She was entitled (as is every single one of us) to the same discretion Barry got.


It's not that difficult to comprehend.

ronivek

So someone leaked Clare Daly's arrest as soon as it happened and people are complaining.

Yet someone leaked Barry Cowen's driving ban just as he's appointed to a ministerial position; and the same people who complained about the Clare Daly leak are fine with that?

Darc19

Gooey Looey wrote: »

OMG, do you not see the hypocrisy in the fact that the media were alerted before she was even released from custody without charge?

We've had all the different types of FF apologists here. Ah shur he was barely over the limit. Ah shur the limit was low because he was on a provisional license. Ah shur it was 4 years ago. Ah shur it was all over the media at the time. Ah shur it was a fixed penalty notice nobody but the occupants of the car and the Gardai could ever know!

I'm no ff apologist and think cowen is an eejit. By not bothering with a driving test for years confirms he's an eejit

I agree, dalys arrest should not have been leaked, but the fact is she was playing the system by playing the time game - exactly what she was campaigning against.

And even after two hours, her alcohol results were higher than Cowens (she released them)

McMurphy

ronivek wrote: »

So someone leaked Clare Daly's arrest as soon as it happened and people are complaining.

Yet someone leaked Barry Cowen's driving ban just as he's appointed to a ministerial position; and the same people who complained about the Clare Daly leak are fine with that?

Well, according to some on here it was well known within Cowens local area, with a few posters even suggesting it was "in the papers at the time" though they have went missing since asked to clarify what paper etc - of course if either of these are accurate the chances of Michaél Martin "not knowing" about this isn't remotely plausible.

Also you say "someone leaked Barry Cowens" as yet that could be anyone, from a disgruntled member of his own party - to a local resident "from his local area", there's nothing whatsoever to suggest it was the Gardai who leaked his details to the media.

With Daly's case, there's not a shadow of a doubt it was the Gardai, and for what motive.

Do you see the difference?

ronivek

McMurphy wrote: »

Well, according to some on here it was well known within Cowens local area, with a few posters even suggesting it was "in the papers at the time" though they have went missing since asked to clarify what paper etc - of course if either of these are accurate the chances of Michaél Martin "not knowing" about this isn't remotely plausible.

So you're suggesting if it was well-known in Cowen's area that somehow Michael Martin would obviously have known? What; did he regularly spend his holidays there nattering to the local gossips?

Cowen accepted a fixed penalty notice as a private citizen; why would he have to notify anyone about it? Or what are you implying here: that someone who accepted a fixed penalty notice should be fired and immediately go on jobseeker's allowance and never be allowed to work another day for the rest of their lives?

McMurphy wrote: »

Also you say "someone leaked Barry Cowens" as yet that could be anyone, from a disgruntled member of his own party - to a local resident "from his local area", there's nothing whatsoever to suggest it was the Gardai who leaked his details to the media.

With Daly's case, there's not a shadow of a doubt.

Well there is absolutely a shadow of a doubt according to the Garda Siochana Ombudsman Commission: "GSOC believes that it is more likely than not that at least some of the specifics of Deputy Daly’s arrest were provided by someone from within the Garda Síochána (which may include civilian employees), and that this information subsequently ended up in the hands of the media."

In either case are you saying it's fine for private information to be leaked by people are long as they're not members of the Gardai? Or what point is it you're trying to make?

smurgen

How did Michael Martin not know? Did he not notice the minister not driving himself everywhere after the ban? There's pictures of them together two weeks after he was put off the road.

maestroamado

ronivek wrote: »

So someone leaked Clare Daly's arrest as soon as it happened and people are complaining.

Yet someone leaked Barry Cowen's driving ban just as he's appointed to a ministerial position; and the same people who complained about the Clare Daly leak are fine with that?

I do not see the reporting of any elected TD law breaking as a leak, this is public information. They are the legislators and why would you consider release of this info as leak.
In the interest of fairness this should not be done until after the powers issue whatever penalty imposed.
For me it was a deliberate action to get it out there as sooner or later someone would tell Michael Martin what he likely already knew.


Accountability goes with the job....

Darc19

On clare daly, she was arrested for the purpose of providing a specimen of breath or blood or urine sample.

From what I can see, if you are arrested, that arrest can be made public.

Possibly that's why further action could not be taken by daly against the gardai

McMurphy

ronivek wrote: »

So you're suggesting if it was well-known in Cowen's area that somehow Michael Martin would obviously have known? What; did he regularly spend his holidays there nattering to the local gossips?

Well known in his area - and "was reported on in the paper" if true, the chances of someone somewhere not alerting the leader of FF that one of his high profile members was done for drunk driving and losing his license is no more credible than Bertie not having a bank account.

Cowen accepted a fixed penalty notice as a private citizen; why would he have to notify anyone about it? Or what are you implying here: that someone who accepted a fixed penalty notice should be fired and immediately go on jobseeker's allowance and never be allowed to work another day for the rest of their lives?

No, I'm stating quite clearly that he was fully entitled to the discretion he received, I don't know how you'd be confused about that tbh, I said it and have kept saying it throughout the thread.

However so too was Daly.

Well there is absolutely a shadow of a doubt according to the Garda Siochana Ombudsman Commission: "GSOC believes that it is more likely than not that at least some of the specifics of Deputy Daly’s arrest were provided by someone from within the Garda Síochána (which may include civilian employees), and that this information subsequently ended up in the hands of the media."

Of course some private citizen had all the fine details of Daly's finer details of her driving conduct, rules broken, and alcohol test results and then added to that had an axe to grind with her that they would notify the media before she even was released from custody

In either case are you saying it's fine for private information to be leaked by people are long as they're not members of the Gardai? Or what point is it you're trying to make?

No - I'm not saying either case being leaked was ok, and I'd appreciate it if you stopped trying to misrepresent me in what I'm saying.

ronivek

McMurphy wrote: »

Well known in his area - and "was reported on in the paper" if true, the chances of someone somewhere not alerting the leader of FF that one of his high profile members was done for drunk driving and losing his license is no more credible than Bertie not having a bank account.

I can't imagine it was in any paper and somehow wasn't picked up until now; but I suppose stranger things have happened.

McMurphy wrote: »

No, I'm stating quite clearly that he was fully entitled to the discretion he received, I don't know how you'd be confused about that tbh, I said it and have kept saying it throughout the thread.

However so too was Daly.

Agreed.

McMurphy wrote: »

No - I'm not saying either case being leaked was ok, and I'd appreciate it if you stopped trying to misrepresent me in what I'm saying.

I'm hardly trying to misrepresent you if I'm asking for clarification on what you meant; since clearly I didn't understand what if any argument you were trying to make.

Galwayguy35

Gooey Looey wrote: »

OMG, do you not see the hypocrisy in the fact that the media were alerted before she was even released from custody without charge?

We've had all the different types of FF apologists here. Ah shur he was barely over the limit. Ah shur the limit was low because he was on a provisional license. Ah shur it was 4 years ago. Ah shur it was all over the media at the time. Ah shur it was a fixed penalty notice nobody but the occupants of the car and the Gardai could ever know!

And do you not see Daly was doing everything she could to dely the process after failing the roadside test, neither of them should have taken a drink before getting behind the wheel.

Have a read up on Daly before jumping in to defend her, she turned a blind eye to tax dodge Mick and what he was up to and offered surety for a dissident republican.

McMurphy

ronivek wrote: »

I can't imagine it was in any paper and somehow wasn't picked up until now; but I suppose stranger things have happened.



Agreed.



I'm hardly trying to misrepresent you if I'm asking for clarification on what you meant; since clearly I didn't understand what if any argument you were trying to make.

Let me clarify for you, the difference in how the two were treated was startling. One TDs brush with the law was released to the press while still within Gardai custody.

The other TD enjoyed the full discretion they were entitled to, and Daly should quite rightfully have expected.

road_high

How did he not have a full driver license? Bizzare

Eric Cartman

McMurphy wrote: »

Let me clarify for you, the difference in how the two were treated was startling. One TDs brush with the law was released to the press while still within Gardai custody.

The other TD enjoyed the full discretion they were entitled to, and Daly should quite rightfully have expected.

So one gard made the clear error to text a journo when daly was arrested, absolutely agree its wrong , but its not evidence of some media collusion or a systemic bias/coverup.

ronivek

McMurphy wrote: »

Let me clarify for you, the difference in how the two were treated was startling. One TDs brush with the law was released to the press while still within Gardai custody.

The other TD enjoyed the full discretion they were entitled to, and Daly should quite rightfully have expected.

Well I wouldn't exactly call it startling. Not that I'm condoning the release of information w.r.t. Daly but she seemingly did everything in her power to draw attention to her circumstances. Contrasted with Cowen who just took his punishment and went on his way.

You could also argue the timing of the leak in Cowen's case was designed to be far more damaging.

McMurphy

Eric Cartman wrote: »

So one gard made the clear error to text a journo when daly was arrested, absolutely agree its wrong , but its not evidence of some media collusion or a systemic bias/coverup.

I'm not claiming there is, I'm simply stating Daly was entitled to the exact same discretion Cowen received.

Perhaps the fact Daly was instrumental in revealing Garda corruption, and highlighting the whistleblowers story z and her details being leaked was entirely coincidental.

AndrewJRenko

smurgen wrote: »

How did Michael Martin not know? Did he not notice the minister not driving himself everywhere after the ban? There's pictures of them together two weeks after he was put off the road.

I wouldn't expect him to necessarily notice. Do you notice every work colleague's driving habits all the time?

But I would expect him to ask a question when appointing a senior Minister - roughly equivalent to the Garda vetting process. He should have asked something about 'any skeletons in the cupboard' to put the responsibility back on to Cowen.

bocaman

Find it hard to believe that a middle ages politician living in rural Ireland only had a learners licence. Fishy.

Galwayguy35

bocaman wrote: »

Find it hard to believe that a middle ages politician living in rural Ireland only had a learners licence. Fishy.

Maybe he let the license run out, happened to someone I know and they left it too long to renew and had to re do the test.

Whats fishy about it?

WishUWereHere

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Maybe he let the license run out, happened to someone I know and they left it too long to renew and had to re do the test.

Whats fishy about it?

Well, I think it IS fishy. AFAIK Cowan never had a ministerial car with a driver, so surely every week, the bloke had to go to Kildare Street on political business, then how did he get there?

Jim Root

Queasy Tadpole wrote: »

Why is this even news?

The man was caught slightly over, 4 years ago... who cares.

It’s news because he was just appointed a minister. Pretty obvious

AndrewJRenko

Darc19 wrote: »

Looks like no one here has checked the facts.

1. He had a provisional license (eejit)

2. His blood/alcohol limit was between 10&35mg

3. He accepted the option of an on the spot 3 months ban and €200 fine.

4. If he had a full license he would have been waved on.


So because he is an eejit and couldn't be arsed taking a driving test, he got the ban as the limits for learners at that time was 35mg/100. (it's now 20mg)

As for Clare daly, she would have been charged if the 2016 limit applied at the time she was stopped. And remember that she was "unable" to blow into the breathalyzer and wanted a doctor to take a blood sample, but eventually (almost 2 hours later) she gave a urine sample which was 30% below the limit.

Let's not forget fact 5 - that he was caught at the end of a journey that we about 90 minutes on a good day, and more on an All-Ireland day.

What state was he in at the start of the journe?

Darc19

McMurphy wrote: »

Let me clarify for you, the difference in how the two were treated was startling. One TDs brush with the law was released to the press while still within Gardai custody.

The other TD enjoyed the full discretion they were entitled to, and Daly should quite rightfully have expected.

If you are arrested, that arrest is in the public domain.

As for the results of her urine test - it was Daly that published them herself.


It was over 2 hours from her stop to her release, yet she was just 30% under the limit.

Two hours are enough for a body to process 60mg alcohol.

Do the math.

She played the system. (as many would do and nothing wrong with it)

AndrewJRenko

WishUWereHere wrote: »

Well, I think it IS fishy. AFAIK Cowan never had a ministerial car with a driver, so surely every week, the bloke had to go to Kildare Street on political business, then how did he get there?

On The Week In Politics today, he admitted that he has driven unaccompanied in the past.

Happy4all

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Maybe he let the license run out, happened to someone I know and they left it too long to renew and had to re do the test.

Whats fishy about it?

Just a general point on rules.if I have been charged with a drink driving offence I would lose my licence? And eventually after a period of time by allowed to drive but required to retake test and as such be put back to learner status?

walshb

All this nonsense about limits, amount of drink, licences etc

Simple: a man in a highly influential position in society, who should be setting standards and examples, chose to get behind the wheel of a car after having ingested alcohol....this is the issue. And the man should not hold a position in government here..

expectationlost

Fionnann Sheehan said he was with a friend on the radio https://ift.tt/2YVC6eO .mp3