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Ghislaine Maxwell trial

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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,979 ✭✭✭ riclad


    I know her father was Robert maxwell and he was accused of pension fund fraud and he was not a great father but as far as i know the rest of her family was not involved in any criminal behavior or were close friends with Epstein . Its strange that Prince Andrew was still friends with Epstein even after the epstein was convicted of sexual offences with young women

    Post edited by riclad on


  • Registered Users Posts: 37,828 ✭✭✭✭ ohnonotgmail


    the man alleged to work for Mossad who died in mysterious circumstances.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,922 ✭✭✭ Immortal Starlight


    Delighted she didn’t get bail. Disgusting yolk.



  • Posts: 8,860 ✭✭✭ Cecelia Shapely Vacuum


    Second day of the trail and powerful testimony from one of the 4 alleged victims in the case.

    while it’s going to be a 6 week trial approx, it certainly not a good day for Maxwell with this testimony. Defence tried to discredit the 4 accusers in their opening address but the jury aren’t from Alabama so it’s not like they’ll be influenced with the defence saying these alleged victims took drugs.

    With the metoo movement well and truely embedded in American culture, especially in places like New York, and with the success of the Weinstein and Cosby historical abuse trials, there’s every reason to think at least one guilty verdict will happen here.



    Warning, quite detailed and upsetting

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10259877/Ghislaines-accuser-Jane-takes-stand-says-Maxwell-room-abuse.html



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,450 ✭✭✭ Jequ0n


    Perfectly reasonable stance from the defense lawyer. It’s her job to rip holes into the prosecution’s narrative and I don’t think her observations were unjustified here.



  • Posts: 8,860 ✭✭✭ Cecelia Shapely Vacuum


    Theres 4 victims- there’s multiple charges laid down- assuming you can find guilty for some victims on some or all charges and not guilty for other victims on some or all charges the defence have their work cut out for them - the conspiracy to entice or assisting trafficking seems the most likely ones to stick



  • Registered Users Posts: 37,828 ✭✭✭✭ ohnonotgmail


    6 charges in total, 3 of conspiracy and 3 counts of trafficking and transportation for illegal sex acts. Up to 40 years for each conspiracy charge and 5 to 10 for the other three. she also has 2 perjury charges that will be tried separately.



  • Posts: 8,860 ✭✭✭ Cecelia Shapely Vacuum


    A heavy hitting legal team on both sides by all accounts. Being known as his main Lieutenant and the fact that Epstein already has a conviction for abuse and his general notoriety, I really can’t see her escaping some jail time.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,085 ✭✭✭ Pa ElGrande


    Good Lawgic (pronounce with a Noo Yoik accent) is getting up a 6 AM each day to go to the court, take notes and cover this.

    The impression is the court case is being "cabined" (i.e. kept within strict bounds to leave VIPs out) , the testimony has described how Maxwell selected and groomed girls for Epstein. In one case this was done with the acquiescence of the childs mother.


    On day 4 Dr. Lisa Rocchio explains the stages of Epstein’s "grooming" in general.




  • Registered Users Posts: 30,833 ✭✭✭✭ Penn


    For the trial, they have to stick specifically to Maxwell and her crimes, and ignore all others.

    Chances are if she's found guilty and receives a heavy sentence, they may then try get her to flip on others like Prince Andrew, in exchange for reduced sentence or better conditions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 735 ✭✭✭ Caquas


    The prosecution or defence could have subpoenaed anyone who witnessed Maxwell with the complainants, either to corroborate their story or to say they saw nothing untoward, but that isn’t how this trial is playing out, unless the defence pulls a rabbit out of the hat next week.

    I’d be shocked if she gets a lighter sentence by ratting out the rich and famous. I’m sure the thought was uppermost in her mind every day for the past 550 days in miserable solitary but we have seen no hint of a deal. She might get leniency (i.e. decent conditions and early release) for keeping her mouth shut.



  • Posts: 8,860 ✭✭✭ Cecelia Shapely Vacuum


    The defence are about to earn their money, and boy, do they have their work cut out for them.

    Seeds of Reasonable doubt are going to be hard to sew here- the testimonies were very specific and quite impactful. I don’t think the jury will find guilty on all counts for all alleged victims but I couldn’t see how she won’t be serving a decent stretch. Maxwell is certainly and firmly positioned as Epstein’s number 1. The definitions of each of the charges will be critical here as we move forward to see to what degree the prosecution have met their criteria; but as one of the victims was 14 at the time, even if not guilty verdicts were the outcome for those who were of legal age, it’s very hard to see how you wouldn’t get a guilty verdict or two for those still minors.

    there will be a lot of gold digging and mud slinging accusations I’m sure as the defence won’t hold back, but those testimonies were strong.



  • Registered Users Posts: 735 ✭✭✭ Caquas


    A big week ahead for Maxwell - if she doesn’t change the narrative in this trip, she is sunk. I think she will take the stand and that will be a moment of high drama.

    The prosecution has made out a prima facie case based on compelling testimony by four women. Maxwell must convince the jury that Epstein was running the show and that she was just a friend who helped him make connections with the rich and famous. Lots of others were helping Epstein, whether as employees or as friends. And where are the other men who abused these women? Why is she alone being keelhauled?

    That argument was sketched out in opening statements- the woman being blamed for the man’s misdeeds - and it might work if Maxwell can win the sympathy of the jury.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,210 ✭✭✭✭ JupiterKid


    There may be a more practical, critical and immediate reason why Ghislaine Maxwell will keep her lips sealed on Epstein’s many clients when she takes the stand: not for leniency in prison - where she is surely going for a good long stretch - but to just stay alive.



  • Posts: 8,860 ✭✭✭ Cecelia Shapely Vacuum


    I don’t see any other way than for her to take the stand- you won’t get the jury to believe “false memory” for all 4 victims especially those underage. No, she’s going to have to present an alternative reality here if she’s to gain any hope of reasonable doubt, but TBH I just don’t see that happening. I think she’s facing 20 years plus at this point.



  • Registered Users Posts: 735 ✭✭✭ Caquas


    Yes, if convicted of the main charges, they’ll throw the book at her. She would probably serve less time if she had murdered all four women in Ireland.

    One of them is reported to have received €8 million in compo. Not clear from whom, but not (yet) from Andrew.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/prince-andrew-accuser-virginia-giuffre-receives-7-million-in-legal-payouts-8k0pwn6v0

    Her brother says she is not fit to take the stand after her 525 days in solitary (another black stain on the US “justice” system).


    And she believes both her father and Epstein were murdered.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,560 ✭✭✭✭ Wanderer78


    send that woman away, what a horrible human being.....



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  • Registered Users Posts: 735 ✭✭✭ Caquas


    What a waste of time this "due process" nonsense has been! Why wait for her defence? We all know she’s guilty. Just one look at her - she’s her father’s daughter alright!

    The sooner this over, the better for the guilty men.



  • Registered Users Posts: 95 ✭✭ cafflingwunts


    Literally nothing will happen to any of those men accused.

    Literally. Nothing.

    Fining them millions or even billions will barely touch their wealth and thats all you can hope for. We all know Maxwell won't say what we all want to hear, she saw what happened to her hubby and she still has friends and family alive ready for the slaughter.

    To think people actually expect justice in 2021.... come on. Seems morbid when typed up but I actually believe this is how twisted the world has gotten nowadays. Might be time for a break.





  • When is the verdict due



  • Posts: 8,860 ✭✭✭ Cecelia Shapely Vacuum


    Trial due to end before Christmas so who knows after that- there’s 6 charges and 4 victims so jury deliberation MAY take a while.



  • Posts: 8,860 ✭✭✭ Cecelia Shapely Vacuum


    She was making big about how she was treated up to the trial but I think that was just a ploy to get bail. She’s reported to be looking quite well now throughout the trial 😂

    She was a major flight risk with 3 passports, plenty of influential contacts and financial means.



  • Registered Users Posts: 735 ✭✭✭ Caquas


    If a Chinese dissident was kept in these conditions, the U.S. would protest, and rightly. She was ready to accept the most onerous bail conditions, effectively house arrest with a $20 Million bond. The presumption of innocence is a fiction. Next up - Julian Assange.

    Where are the men who abused these women? If the prosecution are planning to after them later, why haven’t they said so? It would be the best answer to her main line of defence I.e. that she is a scapegoat for powerful men.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,450 ✭✭✭ Jequ0n


    “Where are the men who abused these women?.”

    Or the “parents” of the underage girls, who of course did not have any idea what was going on..



  • Posts: 8,860 ✭✭✭ Cecelia Shapely Vacuum


    in relation to “the men”- whoever they are- ( and I’ve only ever heard of a few such as Prince Andrew and a Harvard Law Professor who successfully stopped a civil trial against him)- it’s a more complex issue trying to get a case against them for a number of reasons:

    statute of limitations in America in certain states for such crimes

    The fact that “the men” could plead “consensual sex” (assuming the girls were of age).


    While there appears to be many male visitors to the various residences, we haven’t heard of many stories of encounters with the aledged victims and in terms of a profile of who these “men” are, and how many there were- unless I missed some coverage somewhere that you know of?



  • Registered Users Posts: 735 ✭✭✭ Caquas


    The trial heard that lots of very famous and powerful men travelled on the “Lolita Express”.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2021/11/30/us/ghislaine-maxwell-pilot/index.html

    Which of them had sex with these girls? The girls were underage so “consent” is no defence. Andrew says he didn’t but he didn’t cooperate with the investigation. Who else was uncooperative?

    How many men have paid Virginia Guiffre for her silence? €8 million is a huge sum - seems like it came from a number of men.



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  • Posts: 8,860 ✭✭✭ Cecelia Shapely Vacuum


    I’m well aware of claims of people flying on Epsteins plane- that’s a whole heap different to claims of “men” assaulting these girls - like I said I haven’t seen many accounts of perpetrators other than those mentioned above



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