Irish Property Market 2020 Part 2

cubatahavana

943 wrote: »

With new builds you get help to buy which is great, but you're also looking at several thousands added to the price. Not everyone has the 3.5 LTI for new builds even with the help with deposit. A second hand house while requiring saving, probably half the deposit amount of a new build

Majority of FTB saving to buy are also paying high rents.... even with help to buy you have to save a good chunk of that new build deposit if your income isn't high in the first place. So either way you are breaking your back saving. Except, you will get a LTI mortgage for a second hand 150k house that you wouldn't get for a new build. There are obviously exceptions and it is clearly working for some who have the income. It is a catch 22.

But a lot dont - if they did the deposit would be less of an issue in the first place. That and as above, there just arent many new developments in some areas..

At least that's my anecdotal experience and that of people my age group, but I could be totally off the mark and missing something too.

I see your point. I was referring at people that say that they’d never buy in a new build. I can understand that new build can be more expensive for FTB

cubatahavana

Springy Turf wrote: »

The main issue I have with new builds I have seen is that all the houses are completely on top of each other, usually no front garden, and usually on quite a small plot of land.

Yes, you are getting really nicely laid out houses with good floor space and great thermal efficiency, and that definitely has a lot of appeal, but (in Dublin anyway), the most expensive thing is the land. With a new build, you are getting a lot less land for your money.

Well put. Me personally, I don’t care as much about the land as about the size of the house, but I can see people that would rather have a huge garden. Usually those don’t come cheap, though

943

cubatahavana wrote: »

I see your point. I was referring at people that say that they’d never buy in a new build. I can understand that new build can be more expensive for FTB

Yeah to be honest in our case if all that was irrelevant, new builds are generally a fantastic standard. And long term you will save, ie little improvements and good energy rating. It's just the starting off for ftb that makes it a bit harder.

Dwarf.Shortage

silver2020 wrote: »

330k for 1250 sq ft 3 bed in Newcastle.
https://www.cairnhomes.com/new-homes/graydon/

290k for large 3 bed in Balbriggan
https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/taylor-hill-balbriggan-county-dublin/4197010

Though in County Dublin these are both commuter belt competitors in my book, you'd find it easier to get to city centre from Leixlip or Celbridge.

I have noticed Kinsealy is very competitive price wise, this in particular caught my eye https://touch.daft.ie/for-sale/end-of-terrace-house-20-drynam-drive-drynam-hall-kinsealy-co-dublin/2610519

Less than 10km from city centre, what am I missing? Kinsealy isn't particularly rough from what I have heard.

OwlsZat

Huge garden and huge new build seem to come in about equal in cost. Two totally differnt buyers.

Idbatterim

The lack of supply is mental, particularly with covid. Then you have the abysmal failure for the staye to build its own housing. The figures are so bad, that they are just going to buy up more and more extremely limited newly develooed very scare housing stock...

cubatahavana

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

Though in County Dublin these are both commuter belt competitors in my book, you'd find it easier to get to city centre from Leixlip or Celbridge.

I have noticed Kinsealy is very competitive price wise, this in particular caught my eye https://touch.daft.ie/for-sale/end-of-terrace-house-20-drynam-drive-drynam-hall-kinsealy-co-dublin/2610519

Less than 10km from city centre, what am I missing? Kinsealy isn't particularly rough from what I have heard.

It’s a little bit in the middle of nowhere, even though only 10km to center. Nice new houses, but traffic on the malahide road can and will be a nightmare to get into town

cubatahavana

cubatahavana wrote: »

It’s a little bit in the middle of nowhere, even though only 10km to center. Nice new houses, but traffic on the malahide road can and will be a nightmare to get into town

Don’t mind me, those houses are near enough the N1

tobsey

cubatahavana wrote: »

Don’t mind me, those houses are near enough the N1

Swords express will have you at the Three arena within 30 mins of leaving the house too.

Dwarf.Shortage

So houses in west Kinsealy seem a very good value proposition then? I will be concentrating more on that area going forward.

Had been looking at Donabate (bit of a small and pokey town centre) and Malahide (v stretching budget wise, would be an apartment not a house if I went with it). But going forward I'll broaden the mind a bit.

Beigepaint

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

Though in County Dublin these are both commuter belt competitors in my book, you'd find it easier to get to city centre from Leixlip or Celbridge.

I have noticed Kinsealy is very competitive price wise, this in particular caught my eye https://touch.daft.ie/for-sale/end-of-terrace-house-20-drynam-drive-drynam-hall-kinsealy-co-dublin/2610519


Less than 10km from city centre, what am I missing? Kinsealy isn't particularly rough from what I have heard.

Directly under the flight path for aircraft taking off and landing. Could be noise considerations.

Dwarf.Shortage

Beigepaint wrote: »

Directly under the flight path for aircraft taking off and landing. Could be noise considerations.

Ahhh, I think this might be it. I know the sort of noise levels you'd be talking from the few times I've played golf in Portmarnock, they're already very loud then and Kinsealy is closer again to the airport.

I might head out there someday for a coffee and just generally knock around for a while, see how bad it is.

tobsey

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

Ahhh, I think this might be it. I know the sort of noise levels you'd be talking from the few times I've played golf in Portmarnock, they're already very loud then and Kinsealy is closer again to the airport.

I might head out there someday for a coffee and just generally knock around for a while, see how bad it is.

I live near there now and the noise is completely unnoticeable. However the new runway has the path half as far away as the current runway. It won’t be directly overhead but probably will be more noticeable. Also the area is on the main landing path rather than take off so it is quieter. If the winds are from the east it will be on the take off path, but that’s rare enough.

House Hunt

tobsey wrote: »

I live near there now and the noise is completely unnoticeable. However the new runway has the path half as far away as the current runway. It won’t be directly overhead but probably will be more noticeable. Also the area is on the main landing path rather than take off so it is quieter. If the winds are from the east it will be on the take off path, but that’s rare enough.

For decades, the industry has been working to reduce noise, with significant progress: noise levels have halved in the past 10 years. It is estimated that the noise footprint of each new generation of aircraft is at least 15% lower than previous models.

Beigepaint

Beigepaint wrote: »

Directly under the flight path for aircraft taking off and landing. Could be noise considerations.

You wouldn't even notice the planes after a week or so.

Milena009

bubblypop wrote: »

You wouldn't even notice the planes after a week or so.

That's very good point
I was always dismissing idea of Swords / Surrounds like Kinsealy precisely cause it is close enough to airport and such.

Need to expand my map.

Interested Observer

I could see the airport from my bedroom window growing up, the planes never ever bothered me. You're barely aware of them.

JimmyVik

Milena009 wrote: »

That's very good point
I was always dismissing idea of Swords / Surrounds like Kinsealy precisely cause it is close enough to airport and such.

Need to expand my map.

I lived beside the dart line. Within 30 feet of it.
First week I was woken every morning by trains and every night by that cleaning train that kept going by.
Second week I was woken the odd time.
After that I never noticed a train again.
Some people would be in the house and say to me, is that a train going by. I would say - Is what a train going by?


I lived in Kinsealy for a while too. Right under the planes. Same story.


If I got a bargain that had plane or train noise now it wouldnt bother me in the least. I would consider it a plus to get money off it because others didnt ever have the experience I did and already live near it.


You definitely go totally deaf to noises that are regular your soundscape.
There are probably studies done on it all over the world.
But if it saves you a few thousand, go for it.

donnaille

Milena009 wrote: »

That's very good point
I was always dismissing idea of Swords / Surrounds like Kinsealy precisely cause it is close enough to airport and such.

Need to expand my map.

Perhaps best to spend some time out there though, as you mentioned, as unfortunately some people never become accustomed to the noise (raises hand).

I lived in a lovely area of south London (Fulham) for just over a year, which is directly under a Heathrow flight path, and it's something that I just couldn't block out. It wasn't our main reason for leaving the area, but it was a contributor.

JimmyCorkhill

While currently not looking to buy as cannot afford, I really feel for those looking to buy especially when more & more money gets ploughed into social housing.

I would much rather see that money being used by the Government to build their own houses and sell at cost price or thereabouts to those people out there working hard, being forced to rent but wanting to buy and have reasonable savings and an ability to get a mortgage but due to the ridiculous cost of houses they cannot afford to have their own place.

The help to buy scheme for FTB is say 30k max, a social house for someone not arsed is worth a lot more than that over the terms of their tenancy. Rewarding the lazy and wasters over those working and trying to survive. Granted, some social housing is deserved for certain individuals due to their situation, but alot just play the system.

tigger123

JimmyVik wrote: »

I lived beside the dart line. Within 30 feet of it.
First week I was woken every morning by trains and every night by that cleaning train that kept going by.
Second week I was woken the odd time.
After that I never noticed a train again.
Some people would be in the house and say to me, is that a train going by. I would say - Is what a train going by?


I lived in Kinsealy for a while too. Right under the planes. Same story.


If I got a bargain that had plane or train noise now it wouldnt bother me in the least. I would consider it a plus to get money off it because others didnt ever have the experience I did and already live near it.


You definitely go totally deaf to noises that are regular your soundscape.
There are probably studies done on it all over the world.
But if it saves you a few thousand, go for it.

I'd definitely second that. I used to live close to a flight path near the airport and you hardly notice it after a while. Definitely wouldn't be ruling a property out because of it.

fliball123

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

Examples?

Have a look in areas like

Tallaght, Finglas, Donaghmede, Kilbarrack, Ballymun, Swords, Blanchardstown, Clondalkin, Balbriggan, Rush, Lusk, Donabate, Portrane and other areas like this.. 300k goes a long way if you want to be further in Dublin or want a seaview then you will have to up your price

KennisWhale

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/glass-bottle-company-site-affordable-homes-funding-focus-of-doubt-1.4378115

Glass Bottle Company site affordable homes funding focus of doubt
No ‘commercial agreement’ reached for 600-plus housing unit plan, Nama says

In a letter seen by The Irish Times, the agency says “Despite Nama’s best efforts” no “commercial agreement” had been reached between Dublin City Council and the Department of Housing for the affordable homes the Government in 2017 committed to fund.

This is something which appears to have drifted under the radar. By way of recap, the Glass Bottle Company site was agreed to be sold to a Johnny Ronan lead consortium of bidders including Colony Capital (who have been in bother in the US and are seeking to offload some Irish properties) back in July. The site, we are told, has the potential for 3500 homes. There has been silence the past few months since the agreement was announced.

Just this week, 1am on Monday morning, the IT published the above story which, to be honest, I am a bit shocked about. The Department of Housing, DCC and NAMA have been dragging their feet on together agreeing on funding for 650 social homes on the site for over 2 years. The article essentially provides that there is still no deal. The delay to deliver so many new homes in an area so close to the city centre should be a priority and I do not understand why they are dragging their heels. The entities' inaction is contributing in part to pumping up the Irish property market into bubble territory (again) at a cost to many.

brisan

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

Examples?

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/dublin/house-for-sale?maxprice=300000&minbeds=3
There is 366

brisan

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

Though in County Dublin these are both commuter belt competitors in my book, you'd find it easier to get to city centre from Leixlip or Celbridge.

I have noticed Kinsealy is very competitive price wise, this in particular caught my eye https://touch.daft.ie/for-sale/end-of-terrace-house-20-drynam-drive-drynam-hall-kinsealy-co-dublin/2610519

Less than 10km from city centre, what am I missing? Kinsealy isn't particularly rough from what I have heard.

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/67-grange-lodge-avenue-clongriffin-dublin-13/4457011
Not a bad house and 5 min walk to the Dart station

brisan

JimmyVik wrote: »

I lived beside the dart line. Within 30 feet of it.
First week I was woken every morning by trains and every night by that cleaning train that kept going by.
Second week I was woken the odd time.
After that I never noticed a train again.
Some people would be in the house and say to me, is that a train going by. I would say - Is what a train going by?


I lived in Kinsealy for a while too. Right under the planes. Same story.


If I got a bargain that had plane or train noise now it wouldnt bother me in the least. I would consider it a plus to get money off it because others didnt ever have the experience I did and already live near it.


You definitely go totally deaf to noises that are regular your soundscape.
There are probably studies done on it all over the world.
But if it saves you a few thousand, go for it.

Donaghmede?
I grew up facing the train station
When the Beller went past we would run out to see it
After a few weeks we never heard it

cubatahavana

brisan wrote: »

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/67-grange-lodge-avenue-clongriffin-dublin-13/4457011
Not a bad house and 5 min walk to the Dart station

15 min to the airport, number 15 into town less than 5 min walk (24 hour bus). 4 new bus lines (one to the airport) planned

Clongriffin is a nice place to live. Have lived there for 10+ years (on that same street)

Balluba

JimmyCorkhill wrote: »

While currently not looking to buy as cannot afford, I really feel for those looking to buy especially when more & more money gets ploughed into social housing.

I would much rather see that money being used by the Government to build their own houses and sell at cost price or thereabouts to those people out there working hard, being forced to rent but wanting to buy and have reasonable savings and an ability to get a mortgage but due to the ridiculous cost of houses they cannot afford to have their own place.

The help to buy scheme for FTB is say 30k max, a social house for someone not arsed is worth a lot more than that over the terms of their tenancy. Rewarding the lazy and wasters over those working and trying to survive. Granted, some social housing is deserved for certain individuals due to their situation, but alot just play the system.

I have read that Twink is in danger again of losing her house in South Co. Dublin due to losing work because of Covid

nerrad01

I just lost out on my dream place this morning to a cash buyer, the seller wouldnt even take a higher bid, just went straight with the cash buyer at asking price, very difficult market with the lack of properties in desirable areas.

I had previously thought we would see a drop but cant see it happening at all now. A quick look on auctioneera and its clear that every thing is going above asking.

PropQueries

The Irish media appear to be giving the Government a very easy ride around the massive increase in our debt levels. The debate seems to be around our Debt to GDP levels and no mention of GNI* which I thought all the experts were agreed gave us a much better understanding of the potential impact of our current debt levels.

According to the economist David Ricardo: "Ricardian equivalence is an economic theory that argues that attempts to stimulate an economy by increasing debt-financed government spending are doomed to failure because demand remains unchanged. The theory argues that consumers will save any money they receive in order to pay for the future tax increases they expect to be levied in order to pay off the debt.". He came up with this in the early 19th century.

According to the Irish Times in July 2019:

"How big is our national debt?

It’s just over €200 billion. On a per capita basis that’s the third highest in the world, eclipsed only by the US and Japan. It equates to €42,000 for every man, woman and child in the State or nearly €90,000 for every worker in the economy."

Link to Irish Times article here: https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/ireland-s-200bn-debt-burden-how-did-we-get-here-1.3943085

So, back to the Ricardian equivalence above. Will some potential property investors now pull out as they may realise they're a prime candidate for a probable future tax grab? Companies and workers can and will most likely move out of Ireland if taxes do increase considerably to pay for this debt. Land/property can't be moved.