Irish Property Market 2020 Part 2

brisan

Lia_lia wrote: »

The repayments will not be too much higher than our rent (which is currently under 1K a month). We are a couple with a baby and the house we are currently in is just getting too small. We’ll be going from a 2 bed to a 4 bed. We will be first time buyers and will get the help to buy too. Both work for MNC and jobs are very secure. Well, hopefully! Just feel like we’ll regret it if prices go way down but will probably take a while anyway if they do.

If you can comfortably afford to buy ,you jobs are secure and it will improve the quality of your life then buy.
Once you buy don't look at property prices again
its your home ,not a trade able commodity

cubatahavana

brisan wrote: »

Tell the builder you cant afford it .
There are usually clauses in the deposit that it is fully refundable until you close
Most solicitors would demand this .

As far as I know, deposit until contracts are exchanged is refundable. Even the estate agent mentioned it

Bass Reeves

Lia_lia wrote: »

The repayments will not be too much higher than our rent (which is currently under 1K a month). We are a couple with a baby and the house we are currently in is just getting too small. We’ll be going from a 2 bed to a 4 bed. We will be first time buyers and will get the help to buy too. Both work for MNC and jobs are very secure. Well, hopefully! Just feel like we’ll regret it if prices go way down but will probably take a while anyway if they do.

And if prices sat fairy steady or only drop 4-5% and you stay renting you will regret that as well. I always work on the assumption is make the decision and usually when its made it the righ decision anyway no matter which you make. If you stay renting for 2-3 years its 24-36K paid to a landlord.

Assuming that you are taking out a mortgage in the 250K bracket 1100/month repayments in 3 years you will have paid about 39K in payments 20K in interest and 19K paid off the 250K. You baby will be heading for four years of age and you will have settle on creche, preschool and have an idea what Primary school you intend to send your child to.

You rent for 1-2-3 years if prices fall 15-20% in 12-18 months you are looking at maybe the house being 25-40K cheaper if in the 300K bracket. That is if the builder is willing to build for this prices but assuming he is and you mortgage is 220K instead of 250K your repayments will be about 980/month. However say it takes 3 years and you decide to take a 20 year instead of 25 year you mortgage is about 1150/ month.

awec

brisan wrote: »

Tell the builder you cant afford it .
There are usually clauses in the deposit that it is fully refundable until you close
Most solicitors would demand this .

No there isn't, and solicitors cannot demand anything.

A deposit that is fully refundable until sale is closed is a fairly useless deposit. Once the contracts are signed that's it, you've committed to buy. Sometimes there is a clause to get out if a bank won't give you a mortgage, but if you just change your mind then it's entirely good will as to whether or not you see a cent of your deposit back.

Bass Reeves

awec wrote: »

No there isn't, and solicitors cannot demand anything.

A deposit that is fully refundable until sale is closed is a fairly useless deposit. Once the contracts are signed that's it, you've committed to buy. Sometimes there is a clause to get out if a bank won't give you a mortgage, but if you just change your mind then it's entirely good will as to whether or not you see a cent of your deposit back.

There is a supposition on deposits that they are always refundable. I think there was a case about 20 years ago where a buyer got a deposit refunded as he had an issue getting a mortgage or there was a problem with the house. Since then in general deposits are given back if there was an issue. However the supposition that deposits are refundable is not as clear as people believe, a seller would be entitled to hold onto a deposit where the buyer showed bad faith such as reduced there bid or were drawing out the proceedings. In that case the buyer would have to go to court to get it back. There is no guarantee that they would.

SozBbz

awec wrote: »

No there isn't, and solicitors cannot demand anything.

A deposit that is fully refundable until sale is closed is a fairly useless deposit. Once the contracts are signed that's it, you've committed to buy. Sometimes there is a clause to get out if a bank won't give you a mortgage, but if you just change your mind then it's entirely good will as to whether or not you see a cent of your deposit back.

Is the difference here the difference between buying 2nd hand houses and new builds?

I've only every bought second hand and I've always been of the understanding (and verified such understanding wiht my solicitor) that until contracts were signed, that I could get my deposit back without quibble. Each time I bought it took a number of months to get to that stage, so I'd loads of time to find any redline issues. I've actually places deposits on a total of 5 properties. The first two, the deposit was returned to me by vendors as their banks were not approving the sales (2013/14), in the case of the 3rd one I requested it back when my solicitor found a significant issue with the title relating to a strip of land across the driveway. 4th and 5th time were a charm thankfully.

In the case of new builds, are people signing sooner? Is that the issue? I've heard of people buying off plan and waiting months (6, 10, 12) for their properties to be completed and its conceivable circumstances could change due to the duration of the wait. It would seem unfair if there was a material change (like the approval for a block of apartments right under your nose) that may not have been knowable at the time of buying the house.

cubatahavana

SozBbz wrote: »

Is the difference here the difference between buying 2nd hand houses and new builds?

I've only every bought second hand and I've always been of the understanding (and verified such understanding wiht my solicitor) that until contracts were signed, that I could get my deposit back without quibble. Each time I bought it took a number of months to get to that stage, so I'd loads of time to find any redline issues. I've actually places deposits on a total of 5 properties. The first two, the deposit was returned to me by vendors as their banks were not approving the sales (2013/14), in the case of the 3rd one I requested it back when my solicitor found a significant issue with the title relating to a strip of land across the driveway. 4th and 5th time were a charm thankfully.

In the case of new builds, are people signing sooner? Is that the issue? I've heard of people buying off plan and waiting months (6, 10, 12) for their properties to be completed and its conceivable circumstances could change due to the duration of the wait. It would seem unfair if there was a material change (like the approval for a block of apartments right under your nose) that may not have been knowable at the time of buying the house.

I am buying a newly built house, expected completion in 3-4 months. I was told about the deposit by the estate agent and he mentioned that it is fully refundable until exchange of contracts. I contacted him this morning, as I am not happy about the block of apartments, and he said that there is no issue with returning the deposit.

wassie

Never rely on the advice of a real estate agent. You are dealing with legal contracts and the law here. I'm not saying they may be deliberately misleading, but rather I find often they are ill informed and or incompetent.

This is the biggest purchase in most peoples lives. Your solicitor is the only person you should rely on.

SozBbz

cubatahavana wrote: »

I am buying a newly built house, expected completion in 3-4 months. I was told about the deposit by the estate agent and he mentioned that it is fully refundable until exchange of contracts. I contacted him this morning, as I am not happy about the block of apartments, and he said that there is no issue with returning the deposit.

This sounds like the same as second hand sales so.

I'd find it really strange if you couldnt change your mind for new builds. Some of them are sold so quickly and you're put under pressure to commit to a unit, especially if there's a queue of people behind you and you risk someone else putting their money down if you don't. Most people don't engage their solicitor until they're already Sale Agreed, so it would be madness if you couldnt pull out once your solicitor has had a look at the contracts and had some time to do some further due diligence.

Cyrus

SozBbz wrote: »

This sounds like the same as second hand sales so.

I'd find it really strange if you couldnt change your mind for new builds. Some of them are sold so quickly and you're put under pressure to commit to a unit, especially if there's a queue of people behind you and you risk someone else putting their money down if you don't. Most people don't engage their solicitor until they're already Sale Agreed, so it would be madness if you couldnt pull out once your solicitor has had a look at the contracts and had some time to do some further due diligence.

yes its a booking deposit, full refundable until contracts are signed the remainder of the deposit is paid.

its why people throw down 10k deposits on new builds then go away to think about it

redarmyblues

Villa05 wrote: »

Is the property market a market that only ever rises.

The vast majority of houses in this country were purchased at a price well below current market prices?

With regards to property market, is it not possible for "profit taking" to occur as happens in all other asset markets?

I tried to get an answer to this from our estate agent poster who has gone but they dodged the question all the time

Profit taking only really exists in discreet assets in liquid markets like, stocks, bonds etc and their derivatives. You buy Z amount of currency X for 1.12 of currency Y, the next week you see a bid for currency X at 1.134 of currency Y, you accept and take a profit. In property the estate agent estimates the value of your house that you paid 109K for 10 years ago at 129K what you sell a year or 6 months later for God knows what price. In other countries where transactions happen much faster, profit taking is more possible, In Ireland the glacial pace of sales and conveyancing massages it very difficult. There is a good argument to remove Solicitors and their letter writing our of the process entirely, but that's for another day

Claw Hammer

Bass Reeves wrote: »

There is a supposition on deposits that they are always refundable. I think there was a case about 20 years ago where a buyer got a deposit refunded as he had an issue getting a mortgage or there was a problem with the house. Since then in general deposits are given back if there was an issue. However the supposition that deposits are refundable is not as clear as people believe, a seller would be entitled to hold onto a deposit where the buyer showed bad faith such as reduced there bid or were drawing out the proceedings. In that case the buyer would have to go to court to get it back. There is no guarantee that they would.

Booking deposits are always refundable. Contract deposits are another issue altogether. There was no change 20 years ago which altered anything.

SozBbz

Cyrus wrote: »

yes its a booking deposit, full refundable until contracts are signed the remainder of the deposit is paid.

its why people throw down 10k deposits on new builds then go away to think about it

Exactly - it makes no sense if you didnt have a moment to think especially in the case of a busy viewing where things are rushed. I suppose the theory is that people probably dont have multiple €10ks to leave on multiple properties, so its still showing the builder that they're at least somewhat serious.


When I bought on previous occasions (2nd hand) it was never that rushed. I've never paid a deposit without a 2nd viewing (bringing the Old Man along for a 2nd opinion) and then bidding can take time also, so theres loads of time for 2nd thoughts. And even still I've never paid it the same day that we go Sale Agreed. Typically they'd give you about a week to transfer funds.

hometruths

Woman from myhome just on Pat Kenny saying that the volume of searches in Leinster ex Dublin would normally be Wicklow/Kildare/Meath but now they are seeing searches for Wexford/Westmeath/Louth up threefold.

Who'd have thought it.

Cyrus

schmittel wrote: »

Woman from myhome just on Pat Kenny saying that the volume of searches in Leinster ex Dublin would normally be Wicklow/Kildare/Meath but now they are seeing searches for Wexford/Westmeath/Louth up threefold.

Who'd have thought it.

whether that will actually materialise into house purchases is the next thing :P

on a side note, i know personally i looked at moving home at one stage before buying in dublin and the stock of houses was utter garbage, had a friend in tipperary who had a similar situation so that then pushes people to self build which is another 2-3 years of your life you wont get back

cubatahavana

Cyrus wrote: »

yes its a booking deposit, full refundable until contracts are signed the remainder of the deposit is paid.

its why people throw down 10k deposits on new builds then go away to think about it

That was us

SozBbz

schmittel wrote: »

Woman from myhome just on Pat Kenny saying that the volume of searches in Leinster ex Dublin would normally be Wicklow/Kildare/Meath but now they are seeing searches for Wexford/Westmeath/Louth up threefold.

Who'd have thought it.

I've been searching for all sorts during lockdown, mostly holiday cottages in Wexford.

I'm not remotely in a position to buy one just yet, its a long term dream but the circumstances made me want to have a mooch anyway.

I'd say there was a lot of daydreaming going on.

I was listening to PK too, she said it was a trend they'd observed but cautioned against assuming that searched would translate into real demand in those areas.

They also had another speaking on "the future of work" who flat our said that if you position yourself as 100% remote and never go to the office, you'd definitely harm your career prospects.

hometruths

Cyrus wrote: »

whether that will actually materialise into house purchases is the next thing :P

on a side note, i know personally i looked at moving home at one stage before buying in dublin and the stock of houses was utter garbage, had a friend in tipperary who had a similar situation so that then pushes people to self build which is another 2-3 years of your life you wont get back

Of course if you are comparing the stock in a specific rural location - i.e your home town - to Dublin that holds true.

But those people who are looking for a balance of value/amenities etc not tied to a specific location have a far wider choice.

And they might say if you have €300K to spend the stock of houses in Dublin is utter garbage compared to Wexford/Westmeath/Louth.

Each to their own.

awec

SozBbz wrote: »

Is the difference here the difference between buying 2nd hand houses and new builds?

I've only every bought second hand and I've always been of the understanding (and verified such understanding wiht my solicitor) that until contracts were signed, that I could get my deposit back without quibble. Each time I bought it took a number of months to get to that stage, so I'd loads of time to find any redline issues. I've actually places deposits on a total of 5 properties. The first two, the deposit was returned to me by vendors as their banks were not approving the sales (2013/14), in the case of the 3rd one I requested it back when my solicitor found a significant issue with the title relating to a strip of land across the driveway. 4th and 5th time were a charm thankfully.

In the case of new builds, are people signing sooner? Is that the issue? I've heard of people buying off plan and waiting months (6, 10, 12) for their properties to be completed and its conceivable circumstances could change due to the duration of the wait. It would seem unfair if there was a material change (like the approval for a block of apartments right under your nose) that may not have been knowable at the time of buying the house.

Yes, the deposit is fully refundable until you sign. Same with new builds. Once you sign, you've committed to buy.

Sometimes the buyers solicitor will ask for a clause to be inserted that the deposit will be refunded in the scenario where the buyer is no longer able to obtain a mortgage, but it's a request, not a demand. Everything in the contract must be mutually agreed between the buyer and the vendor. For new builds this is the developer's solicitor, for second hand it's the vendor's solicitor. If the vendor's solicitor says no then you either proceed without the clause or you withdraw from the purchase.

If you think about it, if you were selling your house you will want to know that once the person has agreed to buy that they are genuinely committed. It could be very costly for you if they pull out for some half-arsed reason and expect their deposit back. This is one of the reason's deposits exist, to cover you.

Once you sign that contract, you are saying that you are committed to buying that house, and you've done whatever due diligence you feel you need to do before signing. A simple change of mind at this stage does not automatically entitle you to any deposit back. Many developers or vendors may give it back as they generally have no issue getting another buyer, but they'd be within their rights to keep all of it or part of it.

For new builds you will generally sign contracts a month or so after you pay your booking deposit. In most cases this is many, many months in advance of the house being finished.

Long story short, don't sign contracts unless you are certain you want to buy.

SozBbz

awec wrote: »

For new builds you will generally sign contracts a month or so after you pay your booking deposit. In most cases this is many, many months in advance of the house being finished.

Long story short, don't sign contracts unless you are certain you want to buy.

Yes I know exactly how it works for 2nd hand, as I've said I've done that twice myself.

In both cases, the sale took 4-5 months and contracts were only signed about 2 weeks before getting keys. Both parties would have spent considerable sums on legal fees and other professional fees to get to that stage stage so its not only the deposit thats really keeping you invested in the process at that stage.

My solicitor always put in the clause allowing me to back out of the contract in the event that the mortgage should fall through at the last minute.

New builds are different in that people are often fully committed yet months away from actually getting their keys.

awec

SozBbz wrote: »

Yes I know exactly how it works for 2nd hand, as I've said I've done that twice myself.

In both cases, the sale took 4-5 months and contracts were only signed about 2 weeks before getting keys. Both parties would have spent considerable sums on legal fees and other professional fees to get to that stage stage so its not only the deposit thats really keeping you invested in the process at that stage.

My solicitor always put in the clause allowing me to back out of the contract in the event that the mortgage should fall through at the last minute.

New builds are different in that people are often fully committed yet months away from actually getting their keys.

You'd still have those legal fees etc on new builds, depending on when you decide to back out. If you back out right before signing then your solicitor has done 90% of their work and I would expect they'd bill you for it anyway.

JimmyVik

SozBbz wrote: »

I've been searching for all sorts during lockdown, mostly holiday cottages in Wexford.

I'm not remotely in a position to buy one just yet, its a long term dream but the circumstances made me want to have a mooch anyway.

I'd say there was a lot of daydreaming going on.

I was listening to PK too, she said it was a trend they'd observed but cautioned against assuming that searched would translate into real demand in those areas.

They also had another speaking on "the future of work" who flat our said that if you position yourself as 100% remote and never go to the office, you'd definitely harm your career prospects.

Me too. Searching all over the place. Even Leitrim just to see what their prices are like. Never would I be moving to 99% of the places I search. Like a hobby at this stage.

Graham

JimmyVik wrote: »

Me too. Searching all over the place. Even Leitrim just to see what their prices are like. Never would I be moving to 99% of the places I search. Like a hobby at this stage.

Did someone forget to tell you that lockdown is over

JimmyVik

Graham wrote: »

Did someone forget to tell you that lockdown is over

I know. Fukin Leitrim

wassie

Gold...

mcsean2163

alias no.9 wrote: »

I think that's their whole point, when the goal is to buy a home, even when you time the market as badly as you possibly can, doing nothing can sometimes be even worse.

All a person can do is deal with their own circumstances, look dispassionately at what they can buy and how they can finance it over a reasonably long outlook, once the contract is signed, its all about the monthly payments.

The apparent prescience of people who appear to have timed the market correctly does not reveal itself until after the fact, so it's not prescience at all, it's just luck, despite what they might try and tell you.

The only thing that marks the people who apparently get the market timing right from the rest of the world is that they probably weren't trying to time the market because the bottom can only be determined by looking back and even in 2013/14 people were still talking about dead cat bounces so the smartest guys timing the market were still holding off.

I don't think anyone needs to be prescient now, odds are a significant price drop on the cards...

That'd be my bet unless loads of millionaires flock to covid19 free Ireland.

We bought our house for half what our neighbors paid... it makes a difference.

James 007

https://www.daft.ie/dublin/houses-for-sale/drumcondra/24-lambay-road-drumcondra-drumcondra-dublin-2634517/

Is this worth this price. Please note that all plants featured in the photos were not harmed in any way. Also note the 7 candles by the fire hearth are not included in the sale of the property. Spot the difference teaser photo 20 & 21:rolleyes:

Pivot Eoin

James 007 wrote: »

https://www.daft.ie/dublin/houses-for-sale/drumcondra/24-lambay-road-drumcondra-drumcondra-dublin-2634517/

Is this worth this price. Please note that all plants featured in the photos were not harmed in any way. Also note the 7 candles by the fire hearth are not included in the sale of the property. Spot the difference teaser photo 20 & 21:rolleyes:

4,650 per sq. M with very modern finishes and decent sized garden compared to the house - Drumcondra getting more and more popular every day also.

I'm not exactly sure about the specific area, but Ive seen worse houses for much more money. They're prob in the right ballpark.

mariaalice

mcsean2163 wrote: »

I don't think anyone needs to be prescient now, odds are a significant price drop on the cards...

That'd be my bet unless loads of millionaires flock to covid19 free Ireland.

We bought our house for half what our neighbors paid... it makes a difference.

Its luck for the vast majority plus you need to be wealthy or well off in the first place, a well off solicitor who decided to sell their house last autumn and take a punt on renting for a year or two, they are in a vastly different position than a first-time buyer who keeps having to renew their mortgage approval.

We did very well out of the downturn but it was pure luck and that is the same for the vast majority who do well out of it.

brisan

mariaalice wrote: »

Its luck for the vast majority plus you need to be wealthy or well off in the first place, a well off solicitor who decided to sell their house last autumn and take a punt on renting for a year or two, they are in a vastly different position than a first-time buyer who keeps having to renew their mortgage approval.

We did very well out of the downturn but it was pure luck and that is the same for the vast majority who do well out of it.

We were the same
Done well by selling investment properties in 2007 but that was pure luck and not any expert wisdom