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Forgot to declare car off the road

  • 06-07-2020 5:03pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1 Xxcj


    Hi could anyone help me please I forgot to declare my car off the road and I owe €600 tax on it now the car isn't insured either I was wondering if I sign the car over to a relative and They sign it back to me in the next few weeks can I tax it then with out paying the arrears or do they have to tax it first before signing it back over to me thanks.


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,979 ✭✭✭ User1998


    No they won’t have to tax it before they transfer it back to you. You could even transfer it to yourself except add your middle name, lots of father and sons etc. that have the same names. That way there would be only one extra owner not two


  • Registered Users Posts: 517 ✭✭✭ chuck eastwood


    Xxcj wrote: »
    Hi could anyone help me please I forgot to declare my car off the road and I owe €600 tax on it now the car isn't insured either I was wondering if I sign the car over to a relative and They sign it back to me in the next few weeks can I tax it then with out paying the arrears or do they have to tax it first before signing it back over to me thanks.

    I've done this with no problem. No law agaisnt it but my reasons for doing so we're Legit and just for a 3 month period. Girl in the tax office told me to do it. She Also said no one just forgets to tax a car for more than 1 three month period so depending on how long you've had it off the road you might be okay


  • Registered Users Posts: 339 ✭✭ Dirty Nails


    Xxcj wrote: »
    Hi could anyone help me please I forgot to declare my car off the road and I owe €600 tax on it now the car isn't insured either I was wondering if I sign the car over to a relative and They sign it back to me in the next few weeks can I tax it then with out paying the arrears or do they have to tax it first before signing it back over to me thanks.

    Naturally you'll have to insure it again before you can tax it,so don't be in any hurry putting it back into your own name until it's insured. Do change of ownership start of month rather than end.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭ xDerp


    Naturally you'll have to insure it again before you can tax it,so don't be in any hurry putting it back into your own name until it's insured. Do change of ownership start of month rather than end.

    Is it not still the case that you can put a random number into the insurance number field when filling out the online form?


  • Registered Users Posts: 339 ✭✭ Dirty Nails


    xDerp wrote: »
    Is it not still the case that you can put a random number into the insurance number field when filling out the online form?

    He could chance his arm there,Unlikely it's ever checked anyway. :):)

    After change of ownership,would he get a PIN to tax on-line ??


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  • Registered Users Posts: 490 ✭✭ CiboC


    My brother's friend's sister's cousin allegedly had the same situation and they resolved it by selling the car to themselves.

    I heard that they just completed the seller information with their own name and address and it was sold therby creating a clean tax slate...

    Allegedly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 932 ✭✭✭ bop1977


    Yes


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,897 ✭✭✭ Irishphotodesk


    Xxcj wrote: »
    Hi could anyone help me please I forgot to declare my car off the road and I owe €600 tax on it now the car isn't insured either I was wondering if I sign the car over to a relative and They sign it back to me in the next few weeks can I tax it then with out paying the arrears or do they have to tax it first before signing it back over to me thanks.

    Be careful with advice you receive over the internet..... you may or may not get caught, signing over ownership to avoid tax has been well documented, you would be pretty silly if you think it isn’t going to be flagged and investigated.


  • Registered Users Posts: 72,767 ✭✭✭✭ colm_mcm


    you would be pretty silly if you think it isn’t going to be flagged and investigated.

    It isn’t going to be flagged or investigated.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,843 ✭✭✭ messrs


    Xxcj wrote: »
    Hi could anyone help me please I forgot to declare my car off the road and I owe €600 tax on it now the car isn't insured either I was wondering if I sign the car over to a relative and They sign it back to me in the next few weeks can I tax it then with out paying the arrears or do they have to tax it first before signing it back over to me thanks.

    If your car was actually off the road can you not just go into a guarda station and get them to stamp a form saying it was off the road? I know this used to be a thing years ago but dont know if it still is or not


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  • Registered Users Posts: 113 ✭✭ Dutch_Druid


    messrs wrote: »
    If your car was actually off the road can you not just go into a guarda station and get them to stamp a form saying it was off the road? I know this used to be a thing years ago but dont know if it still is or not

    Not anymore, it has to be declared off the road before hand


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,141 ✭✭✭ twin_beacon


    Be careful with advice you receive over the internet..... you may or may not get caught, signing over ownership to avoid tax has been well documented, you would be pretty silly if you think it isn’t going to be flagged and investigated.

    Get caught at what though? Buying back your old car that had been parked up for a few months? For someone to be caught at this would require people to monitor car sales, and pass on any suspicious car sales to the guards. They would then have to investigate, and give you a court summons. Then when it gets to court, its basically your word against the guards, with no solid evidence the judge cant convict. All for the sake of a few months back tax? The costs incurred by the state to bring you to court, would be greater than the sum of back tax in the overwhelming majority of cases, not to mention the waste of guards and the courts time. This is why is doesn't happen.

    One of my uncles has an old jeep from the early 90s. The gearbox need to be replaced, he kept getting it fixed on the long finger, until eventually two years passed and he realised he never declared it off the road. He went to the tax office to plead his case, and the woman just said to transfer it into his wife's name, and then back to his. Problem solved.


  • Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 13,067 ✭✭✭✭ antodeco


    Current car I have (2k a year tax) had 17 owners before me. Turns out 13 of those owners was the same person!


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭ Isambard


    Be careful with advice you receive over the internet..... you may or may not get caught, signing over ownership to avoid tax has been well documented, you would be pretty silly if you think it isn’t going to be flagged and investigated.

    he's not avoiding tax, the car was off the road. The Tax Office will advise you to follow this procedure. That's well documented


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,699 ✭✭✭ Cheensbo


    When you think about it, getting rid of the aul form (rf100a was it?) didn't make the blindest bit of difference, I may dig out the book - I'm sure as shite not paying this :pac:

    taxarrears.png


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,897 ✭✭✭ Irishphotodesk


    Get caught at what though? Buying back your old car that had been parked up for a few months? For someone to be caught at this would require people to monitor car sales, and pass on any suspicious car sales to the guards. They would then have to investigate, and give you a court summons. Then when it gets to court, its basically your word against the guards, with no solid evidence the judge cant convict. All for the sake of a few months back tax? The costs incurred by the state to bring you to court, would be greater than the sum of back tax in the overwhelming majority of cases, not to mention the waste of guards and the courts time. This is why is doesn't happen.

    One of my uncles has an old jeep from the early 90s. The gearbox need to be replaced, he kept getting it fixed on the long finger, until eventually two years passed and he realised he never declared it off the road. He went to the tax office to plead his case, and the woman just said to transfer it into his wife's name, and then back to his. Problem solved.

    If you really believe the highlighted part, how do you explain people brought to court for no TV licence or failure to pay a tram/train fare or even failure to pay the m50 toll .... this happens EVERY week in the district court, at least it did pre covid, (thurs and fri were tv licence, m50 was first tues of every month etc, in four courts in Dublin) I know as I was often in there monitoring the outcome of some of the cases, listening to some of the excuses etc.

    Tv licence is €160, cost of going to court is a lot more, Luas tram or train fare are usually only a few euro, m50 costs €3/4 .... in fairness though they usually only brought people to court who were ignoring their letters.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,897 ✭✭✭ Irishphotodesk


    Isambard wrote: »
    he's not avoiding tax, the car was off the road. The Tax Office will advise you to follow this procedure. That's well documented

    Do you have proof the car was off the road and not driven at any stage ?

    From the OP
    Xxcj wrote: »
    Hi could anyone help me please I forgot to declare my car off the road and I owe €600 tax on it now the car isn't insured either I was wondering if I sign the car over to a relative and They sign it back to me in the next few weeks can I tax it then with out paying the arrears or do they have to tax it first before signing it back over to me thanks.

    So.... by failure to declare the vehicle off the road in advance, the OP is avoiding tax, if he/she wants to take advice from random people on the internet, let them, if they are old enough to own a vehicle they can make their own opinion on what to do and if caught they must accept the consequences.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,870 ✭✭✭✭ whisky_galore


    Be careful with advice you receive over the internet..... you may or may not get caught, signing over ownership to avoid tax has been well documented, you would be pretty silly if you think it isn’t going to be flagged and investigated.

    A car crimes tribunal at the Hague.


  • Registered Users Posts: 488 ✭✭ Sir Galahad


    Be careful with advice you receive over the internet..... you may or may not get caught, signing over ownership to avoid tax has been well documented, you would be pretty silly if you think it isn’t going to be flagged and investigated.

    This is up to date advice. The Roads Policing Units have been checking cars for this recently as Revenue had flagged it. Everyone used to do it (including me) but if you do it then make sure the new owner is not the same name or a very close relative.


  • Registered Users Posts: 647 ✭✭✭ corcaigh1


    Be careful with advice you receive over the internet..... you may or may not get caught, signing over ownership to avoid tax has been well documented, you would be pretty silly if you think it isn’t going to be flagged and investigated.



    There is absolutely nothing illegal about signing over a vehicle to a relative to avoid tax arrears and then signing it back to your ownership. The car was sold to the relative, end of. Revenue & Gardaí cant do jack sh*t about it.
    antodeco wrote: »
    Current car I have (2k a year tax) had 17 owners before me. Turns out 13 of those owners was the same person!


    LOL! That was mine id say!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 647 ✭✭✭ corcaigh1


    This is up to date advice. The Roads Policing Units have been checking cars for this recently as Revenue had flagged it. Everyone used to do it (including me) but if you do it then make sure the new owner is not the same name or a very close relative.




    Nonsense. Ive been there with my own vehicle, RPU Garda sussed that there had been numerous changeovers to my name and commented on it to me, I replied what law am I breaking Garda? He couldn't answer and I heard no more.


  • Registered Users Posts: 488 ✭✭ Sir Galahad


    corcaigh1 wrote: »
    Nonsense. Ive been there with my own vehicle, RPU Garda sussed that there had been numerous changeovers to my name and commented on it to me, I replied what law am I breaking Garda? He couldn't answer and I heard no more.

    Don't shoot the messenger. I'm only passing on coffee break talk and "you" should pay attention to the detail in my comment about "names" .


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭ Isambard


    Do you have proof the car was off the road and not driven at any stage ?

    From the OP


    So.... by failure to declare the vehicle off the road in advance, the OP is avoiding tax, if he/she wants to take advice from random people on the internet, let them, if they are old enough to own a vehicle they can make their own opinion on what to do and if caught they must accept the consequences.

    I'm taking it on face value. He says he forgot to declare it off the road, so I'm assuming it was off the road. No tax liability arises unless the Owner puts it back on the road himself. Selling it removes the arrears, even if it's to a relative or friend.

    . CiniO would be proud of me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,413 ✭✭✭✭ dsmythy


    If someone is really jobsworthing you...

    You sold the car. Minds were changed. Agreed to buy it back.

    Find the crime.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,141 ✭✭✭ twin_beacon


    If you really believe the highlighted part, how do you explain people brought to court for no TV licence or failure to pay a tram/train fare or even failure to pay the m50 toll .... this happens EVERY week in the district court, at least it did pre covid, (thurs and fri were tv licence, m50 was first tues of every month etc, in four courts in Dublin) I know as I was often in there monitoring the outcome of some of the cases, listening to some of the excuses etc.

    Tv licence is €160, cost of going to court is a lot more, Luas tram or train fare are usually only a few euro, m50 costs €3/4 .... in fairness though they usually only brought people to court who were ignoring their letters.

    few points on this.
    Firstly, in the examples you mentioned above, there is clear evidence that you did not pay the TV license, luas/train ticket or M50 toll. so its an open an shut case when it gets to court. As I said in my previous post, how do you prove that someone changed ownership of a car to avoid paying the tax? Its up to the discretion of the judge on the day.

    not paying a luas/train ticket or an M50 toll, is not an automatic court case. Its in an extreme senario. If you are being brought to court for an unpaid M50 bill, then with the extra penalties that have been applied its well worth their time bringing you to court.

    Its very easy to detect someone that has not paid their tv license, M50 toll, or luas train ticket. There is no such system in place to detect anyone that changes ownership of their car to avoid paying the motor tax.

    Finally, the most important one. There is nothing illegal about changing the ownership of your car into another person's name, and then changing it back into your name.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,741 ✭✭✭ SouthWesterly


    As soon as, it's in their name they need to declare it off road or they will be liable for tax.


  • Registered Users Posts: 517 ✭✭✭ chuck eastwood


    As soon as, it's in their name they need to declare it off road or they will be liable for tax.
    But the point of the post us that if you do not pay the tax you can change the ownership and a week later change it back. Your tax liability is gone as soon as the ownership has changed. Unless you get caught driving and it's dated then you are grand. I've done this with the car I'm driving right now. Completely legal


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,839 ✭✭✭ DuckSlice


    Cheensbo wrote: »
    When you think about it, getting rid of the aul form (rf100a was it?) didn't make the blindest bit of difference, I may dig out the book - I'm sure as shite not paying this :pac:

    taxarrears.png

    Why does your amount of arrears go up depending on how long you tax it for? surely your arrears should be fixed for the amount of months you didn't pay tax?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,699 ✭✭✭ Cheensbo


    etxp wrote: »
    Why does your amount of arrears go up depending on how long you tax it for? surely your arrears should be fixed for the amount of months you didn't pay tax?

    It doesn't, the arrears are currently €1562.. 22 months based on €710 rate


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,839 ✭✭✭ DuckSlice


    Cheensbo wrote: »
    It doesn't, the arrears are currently €1562.. 22 months based on €710 rate

    Ah I thought the left column was arrears only but it’s total. Oops.


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