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Forgot to declare car off the road

  • 06-07-2020 6:03pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1


    Hi could anyone help me please I forgot to declare my car off the road and I owe €600 tax on it now the car isn't insured either I was wondering if I sign the car over to a relative and They sign it back to me in the next few weeks can I tax it then with out paying the arrears or do they have to tax it first before signing it back over to me thanks.


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,979 ✭✭✭User1998


    No they won’t have to tax it before they transfer it back to you. You could even transfer it to yourself except add your middle name, lots of father and sons etc. that have the same names. That way there would be only one extra owner not two


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 533 ✭✭✭chuck eastwood


    Xxcj wrote: »
    Hi could anyone help me please I forgot to declare my car off the road and I owe €600 tax on it now the car isn't insured either I was wondering if I sign the car over to a relative and They sign it back to me in the next few weeks can I tax it then with out paying the arrears or do they have to tax it first before signing it back over to me thanks.

    I've done this with no problem. No law agaisnt it but my reasons for doing so we're Legit and just for a 3 month period. Girl in the tax office told me to do it. She Also said no one just forgets to tax a car for more than 1 three month period so depending on how long you've had it off the road you might be okay


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 479 ✭✭Dirty Nails


    Xxcj wrote: »
    Hi could anyone help me please I forgot to declare my car off the road and I owe €600 tax on it now the car isn't insured either I was wondering if I sign the car over to a relative and They sign it back to me in the next few weeks can I tax it then with out paying the arrears or do they have to tax it first before signing it back over to me thanks.

    Naturally you'll have to insure it again before you can tax it,so don't be in any hurry putting it back into your own name until it's insured. Do change of ownership start of month rather than end.


  • Registered Users Posts: 87 ✭✭xDerp


    Naturally you'll have to insure it again before you can tax it,so don't be in any hurry putting it back into your own name until it's insured. Do change of ownership start of month rather than end.

    Is it not still the case that you can put a random number into the insurance number field when filling out the online form?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 479 ✭✭Dirty Nails


    xDerp wrote: »
    Is it not still the case that you can put a random number into the insurance number field when filling out the online form?

    He could chance his arm there,Unlikely it's ever checked anyway. :):)

    After change of ownership,would he get a PIN to tax on-line ??


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 531 ✭✭✭CiboC


    My brother's friend's sister's cousin allegedly had the same situation and they resolved it by selling the car to themselves.

    I heard that they just completed the seller information with their own name and address and it was sold therby creating a clean tax slate...

    Allegedly.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,065 ✭✭✭bop1977


    Yes


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,896 ✭✭✭Irishphotodesk


    Xxcj wrote: »
    Hi could anyone help me please I forgot to declare my car off the road and I owe €600 tax on it now the car isn't insured either I was wondering if I sign the car over to a relative and They sign it back to me in the next few weeks can I tax it then with out paying the arrears or do they have to tax it first before signing it back over to me thanks.

    Be careful with advice you receive over the internet..... you may or may not get caught, signing over ownership to avoid tax has been well documented, you would be pretty silly if you think it isn’t going to be flagged and investigated.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,477 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    you would be pretty silly if you think it isn’t going to be flagged and investigated.

    It isn’t going to be flagged or investigated.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,853 ✭✭✭messrs


    Xxcj wrote: »
    Hi could anyone help me please I forgot to declare my car off the road and I owe €600 tax on it now the car isn't insured either I was wondering if I sign the car over to a relative and They sign it back to me in the next few weeks can I tax it then with out paying the arrears or do they have to tax it first before signing it back over to me thanks.

    If your car was actually off the road can you not just go into a guarda station and get them to stamp a form saying it was off the road? I know this used to be a thing years ago but dont know if it still is or not


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 113 ✭✭Dutch_Druid


    messrs wrote: »
    If your car was actually off the road can you not just go into a guarda station and get them to stamp a form saying it was off the road? I know this used to be a thing years ago but dont know if it still is or not

    Not anymore, it has to be declared off the road before hand


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭twin_beacon


    Be careful with advice you receive over the internet..... you may or may not get caught, signing over ownership to avoid tax has been well documented, you would be pretty silly if you think it isn’t going to be flagged and investigated.

    Get caught at what though? Buying back your old car that had been parked up for a few months? For someone to be caught at this would require people to monitor car sales, and pass on any suspicious car sales to the guards. They would then have to investigate, and give you a court summons. Then when it gets to court, its basically your word against the guards, with no solid evidence the judge cant convict. All for the sake of a few months back tax? The costs incurred by the state to bring you to court, would be greater than the sum of back tax in the overwhelming majority of cases, not to mention the waste of guards and the courts time. This is why is doesn't happen.

    One of my uncles has an old jeep from the early 90s. The gearbox need to be replaced, he kept getting it fixed on the long finger, until eventually two years passed and he realised he never declared it off the road. He went to the tax office to plead his case, and the woman just said to transfer it into his wife's name, and then back to his. Problem solved.


  • Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,585 ✭✭✭✭antodeco


    Current car I have (2k a year tax) had 17 owners before me. Turns out 13 of those owners was the same person!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,795 ✭✭✭Isambard


    Be careful with advice you receive over the internet..... you may or may not get caught, signing over ownership to avoid tax has been well documented, you would be pretty silly if you think it isn’t going to be flagged and investigated.

    he's not avoiding tax, the car was off the road. The Tax Office will advise you to follow this procedure. That's well documented


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,704 ✭✭✭Cheensbo


    When you think about it, getting rid of the aul form (rf100a was it?) didn't make the blindest bit of difference, I may dig out the book - I'm sure as shite not paying this :pac:

    taxarrears.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,896 ✭✭✭Irishphotodesk


    Get caught at what though? Buying back your old car that had been parked up for a few months? For someone to be caught at this would require people to monitor car sales, and pass on any suspicious car sales to the guards. They would then have to investigate, and give you a court summons. Then when it gets to court, its basically your word against the guards, with no solid evidence the judge cant convict. All for the sake of a few months back tax? The costs incurred by the state to bring you to court, would be greater than the sum of back tax in the overwhelming majority of cases, not to mention the waste of guards and the courts time. This is why is doesn't happen.

    One of my uncles has an old jeep from the early 90s. The gearbox need to be replaced, he kept getting it fixed on the long finger, until eventually two years passed and he realised he never declared it off the road. He went to the tax office to plead his case, and the woman just said to transfer it into his wife's name, and then back to his. Problem solved.

    If you really believe the highlighted part, how do you explain people brought to court for no TV licence or failure to pay a tram/train fare or even failure to pay the m50 toll .... this happens EVERY week in the district court, at least it did pre covid, (thurs and fri were tv licence, m50 was first tues of every month etc, in four courts in Dublin) I know as I was often in there monitoring the outcome of some of the cases, listening to some of the excuses etc.

    Tv licence is €160, cost of going to court is a lot more, Luas tram or train fare are usually only a few euro, m50 costs €3/4 .... in fairness though they usually only brought people to court who were ignoring their letters.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,896 ✭✭✭Irishphotodesk


    Isambard wrote: »
    he's not avoiding tax, the car was off the road. The Tax Office will advise you to follow this procedure. That's well documented

    Do you have proof the car was off the road and not driven at any stage ?

    From the OP
    Xxcj wrote: »
    Hi could anyone help me please I forgot to declare my car off the road and I owe €600 tax on it now the car isn't insured either I was wondering if I sign the car over to a relative and They sign it back to me in the next few weeks can I tax it then with out paying the arrears or do they have to tax it first before signing it back over to me thanks.

    So.... by failure to declare the vehicle off the road in advance, the OP is avoiding tax, if he/she wants to take advice from random people on the internet, let them, if they are old enough to own a vehicle they can make their own opinion on what to do and if caught they must accept the consequences.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,512 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Be careful with advice you receive over the internet..... you may or may not get caught, signing over ownership to avoid tax has been well documented, you would be pretty silly if you think it isn’t going to be flagged and investigated.

    A car crimes tribunal at the Hague.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 743 ✭✭✭Sir Galahad


    Be careful with advice you receive over the internet..... you may or may not get caught, signing over ownership to avoid tax has been well documented, you would be pretty silly if you think it isn’t going to be flagged and investigated.

    This is up to date advice. The Roads Policing Units have been checking cars for this recently as Revenue had flagged it. Everyone used to do it (including me) but if you do it then make sure the new owner is not the same name or a very close relative.


  • Registered Users Posts: 647 ✭✭✭corcaigh1


    Be careful with advice you receive over the internet..... you may or may not get caught, signing over ownership to avoid tax has been well documented, you would be pretty silly if you think it isn’t going to be flagged and investigated.



    There is absolutely nothing illegal about signing over a vehicle to a relative to avoid tax arrears and then signing it back to your ownership. The car was sold to the relative, end of. Revenue & Gardaí cant do jack sh*t about it.
    antodeco wrote: »
    Current car I have (2k a year tax) had 17 owners before me. Turns out 13 of those owners was the same person!


    LOL! That was mine id say!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 647 ✭✭✭corcaigh1


    This is up to date advice. The Roads Policing Units have been checking cars for this recently as Revenue had flagged it. Everyone used to do it (including me) but if you do it then make sure the new owner is not the same name or a very close relative.




    Nonsense. Ive been there with my own vehicle, RPU Garda sussed that there had been numerous changeovers to my name and commented on it to me, I replied what law am I breaking Garda? He couldn't answer and I heard no more.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 743 ✭✭✭Sir Galahad


    corcaigh1 wrote: »
    Nonsense. Ive been there with my own vehicle, RPU Garda sussed that there had been numerous changeovers to my name and commented on it to me, I replied what law am I breaking Garda? He couldn't answer and I heard no more.

    Don't shoot the messenger. I'm only passing on coffee break talk and "you" should pay attention to the detail in my comment about "names" .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,795 ✭✭✭Isambard


    Do you have proof the car was off the road and not driven at any stage ?

    From the OP


    So.... by failure to declare the vehicle off the road in advance, the OP is avoiding tax, if he/she wants to take advice from random people on the internet, let them, if they are old enough to own a vehicle they can make their own opinion on what to do and if caught they must accept the consequences.

    I'm taking it on face value. He says he forgot to declare it off the road, so I'm assuming it was off the road. No tax liability arises unless the Owner puts it back on the road himself. Selling it removes the arrears, even if it's to a relative or friend.

    . CiniO would be proud of me.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,520 ✭✭✭✭dsmythy


    If someone is really jobsworthing you...

    You sold the car. Minds were changed. Agreed to buy it back.

    Find the crime.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭twin_beacon


    If you really believe the highlighted part, how do you explain people brought to court for no TV licence or failure to pay a tram/train fare or even failure to pay the m50 toll .... this happens EVERY week in the district court, at least it did pre covid, (thurs and fri were tv licence, m50 was first tues of every month etc, in four courts in Dublin) I know as I was often in there monitoring the outcome of some of the cases, listening to some of the excuses etc.

    Tv licence is €160, cost of going to court is a lot more, Luas tram or train fare are usually only a few euro, m50 costs €3/4 .... in fairness though they usually only brought people to court who were ignoring their letters.

    few points on this.
    Firstly, in the examples you mentioned above, there is clear evidence that you did not pay the TV license, luas/train ticket or M50 toll. so its an open an shut case when it gets to court. As I said in my previous post, how do you prove that someone changed ownership of a car to avoid paying the tax? Its up to the discretion of the judge on the day.

    not paying a luas/train ticket or an M50 toll, is not an automatic court case. Its in an extreme senario. If you are being brought to court for an unpaid M50 bill, then with the extra penalties that have been applied its well worth their time bringing you to court.

    Its very easy to detect someone that has not paid their tv license, M50 toll, or luas train ticket. There is no such system in place to detect anyone that changes ownership of their car to avoid paying the motor tax.

    Finally, the most important one. There is nothing illegal about changing the ownership of your car into another person's name, and then changing it back into your name.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,921 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    As soon as, it's in their name they need to declare it off road or they will be liable for tax.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 533 ✭✭✭chuck eastwood


    As soon as, it's in their name they need to declare it off road or they will be liable for tax.
    But the point of the post us that if you do not pay the tax you can change the ownership and a week later change it back. Your tax liability is gone as soon as the ownership has changed. Unless you get caught driving and it's dated then you are grand. I've done this with the car I'm driving right now. Completely legal


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,887 ✭✭✭DuckSlice


    Cheensbo wrote: »
    When you think about it, getting rid of the aul form (rf100a was it?) didn't make the blindest bit of difference, I may dig out the book - I'm sure as shite not paying this :pac:

    taxarrears.png

    Why does your amount of arrears go up depending on how long you tax it for? surely your arrears should be fixed for the amount of months you didn't pay tax?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,704 ✭✭✭Cheensbo


    etxp wrote: »
    Why does your amount of arrears go up depending on how long you tax it for? surely your arrears should be fixed for the amount of months you didn't pay tax?

    It doesn't, the arrears are currently €1562.. 22 months based on €710 rate


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,887 ✭✭✭DuckSlice


    Cheensbo wrote: »
    It doesn't, the arrears are currently €1562.. 22 months based on €710 rate

    Ah I thought the left column was arrears only but it’s total. Oops.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 459 ✭✭buzzing147


    I have a car garaged this past 4-5 years, thinking getting it out on road again, made error by not declaring it off the road, will I need a new owner to get tax up to date? Not paying 5 years arrears for a car that hasnt left garage. Do I supposedly buy it back then? U sure won't get letter from tax office wanting arrears? Seen an article in paper a couple were caught doing this and had pay arrears



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,921 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    If you think that's bad.

    I had a guy come into me when I worked in motor tax who had brought a motorbike into the country, registered it but never got around to building it 10 years previously



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 459 ✭✭buzzing147


    Yea but is there a normal way around this? Car hasn't been near a road in 5 years, sitting in garage, had it for sale at start 5 years ago, asked in tax office guy said new owner will get updated tax disc, but ended up taking advert down and still sitting here untaxed and not delacred off Rd. I'd tax it again for 3 months yearly and on off etc, if there was a way to update tax:(



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 83,412 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    Yes sell it to a friend for 2 weeks to take the stress off yourself, then buy it back and the arrears will be erased.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,921 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    Sell it to a friend but he needs to declare off road at the time of transfer of ownership. go into the MTO in person for this or post everything into them together . The same process when you buy it back.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,495 ✭✭✭✭Esel


    Why would the friend need to declare the car off the road? They will just be selling the car back in a few days, and have no motor tax concerns in the interim.

    Not your ornery onager



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 459 ✭✭buzzing147


    I was thinking of selling to to said friend and then they tax it for 3 months and I buy it back off them during the next 3 months, don't understand why I'd have to go into tax office with everything or friend declaring it off road right away? Thought make more sense for friend to get new tax disc for car once new owners papers arrive?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,921 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    If you didn't want to have to tax it, it needs to be declared off road upon transfer of ownership



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 459 ✭✭buzzing147


    Yea don't mind updating tax disc just hopeing when buy it back it doesn't bring up a red flag and end up getting letter re 5 years tax!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,016 ✭✭✭cute geoge


    Sign it over to your Irish Name ,Job done



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,505 ✭✭✭Killinator


    As someone who has people come in to the hatch looking for me to stamp the form like the good old days they have been advised that IF the car happens to aquire a new owner then the tax owed will be cleared and should that 'new' owner change their mind and return it to the 'original seller' then they also will be clear of any tax owed.

    I hope most who come in can read between the lines without me spelling it out for them.

    It's a loop hole in our shi*e motor tax system so it's fair game. Different deal if I were to come across the car with 6 months tax missing out and about though...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,016 ✭✭✭cute geoge


    I have not taxed my car with 3 years and it is still driving grand!!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,495 ✭✭✭✭Esel


    Why are you trying to complicate things for yourself and your friend?

    The friend does NOT need to tax the car before selling it back to you.

    Not your ornery onager



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 459 ✭✭buzzing147


    Cause the current tax disc is 2017 and I'm glovebox and would prefer a newer 2022 tax disc and on window, so would get my friend to tax it when he-she buys it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,495 ✭✭✭✭Esel


    Glovebox, whatever.

    If you want him to tax it before selling it back, try to time it so that they get the full 3 months tax or as close to it as possible.

    Why not just wait until you buy it back to tax it? That is by far the simplest way to do it. Again, time it so you get as much of the 3 months tax as possible.

    Not your ornery onager



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 459 ✭✭buzzing147



    Yea gonna do it that way, sell it, buy back, then tax it myself once it ready for nct. Does it need to be taxed to go in for nct?




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,495 ✭✭✭✭Esel


    You can NCT an untaxed car no problem. If you know it needs work to pass the test, get this done before you buy it back if possible.

    You are liable for tax from the day the car is registered in your name. If you wait for it to be back in your name before getting work done, and depending how much work and how long it will take, you will be paying tax while the car is not roadworthy.

    If it was me, I'd get it NCTd first, get the fail sheet (if it fails), then get those items fixed and retest.

    If you are going ahead with the plan, imo you should book the NCT first. You won't get a close date, nearest appointment could be a month or more.

    ps What does 'glovebox' mean anyway? Maybe it was autocorrect?

    Not your ornery onager



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 459 ✭✭buzzing147


    Thanks for advice, will do that. Ah, by glovebox i meant the tax disc from 2017 is sitting in glovebox, and not on window!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,277 ✭✭✭km991148


    Its hard to keep up with what tax scams are allowed on boards and what one are not..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,495 ✭✭✭✭Esel




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