Forgot to declare car off the road

Xxcj · 06-07-2020 6:03pm #1

Hi could anyone help me please I forgot to declare my car off the road and I owe €600 tax on it now the car isn't insured either I was wondering if I sign the car over to a relative and They sign it back to me in the next few weeks can I tax it then with out paying the arrears or do they have to tax it first before signing it back over to me thanks.

User1998 · 06-07-2020 6:09pm

No they won’t have to tax it before they transfer it back to you. You could even transfer it to yourself except add your middle name, lots of father and sons etc. that have the same names. That way there would be only one extra owner not two

chuck eastwood · 06-07-2020 6:10pm

Xxcj wrote: »

Hi could anyone help me please I forgot to declare my car off the road and I owe €600 tax on it now the car isn't insured either I was wondering if I sign the car over to a relative and They sign it back to me in the next few weeks can I tax it then with out paying the arrears or do they have to tax it first before signing it back over to me thanks.

I've done this with no problem. No law agaisnt it but my reasons for doing so we're Legit and just for a 3 month period. Girl in the tax office told me to do it. She Also said no one just forgets to tax a car for more than 1 three month period so depending on how long you've had it off the road you might be okay

Dirty Nails · 06-07-2020 6:26pm

Xxcj wrote: »

Hi could anyone help me please I forgot to declare my car off the road and I owe €600 tax on it now the car isn't insured either I was wondering if I sign the car over to a relative and They sign it back to me in the next few weeks can I tax it then with out paying the arrears or do they have to tax it first before signing it back over to me thanks.

Naturally you'll have to insure it again before you can tax it,so don't be in any hurry putting it back into your own name until it's insured. Do change of ownership start of month rather than end.

xDerp · 06-07-2020 6:31pm

Dirty Nails wrote: »

Naturally you'll have to insure it again before you can tax it,so don't be in any hurry putting it back into your own name until it's insured. Do change of ownership start of month rather than end.

Is it not still the case that you can put a random number into the insurance number field when filling out the online form?

Dirty Nails · 06-07-2020 6:47pm

xDerp wrote: »

Is it not still the case that you can put a random number into the insurance number field when filling out the online form?

He could chance his arm there,Unlikely it's ever checked anyway.

After change of ownership,would he get a PIN to tax on-line ??

CiboC · 06-07-2020 6:53pm

My brother's friend's sister's cousin allegedly had the same situation and they resolved it by selling the car to themselves.

I heard that they just completed the seller information with their own name and address and it was sold therby creating a clean tax slate...

Allegedly.

bop1977 · 06-07-2020 10:04pm

Yes

Irishphotodesk · 06-07-2020 10:16pm

Xxcj wrote: »

Hi could anyone help me please I forgot to declare my car off the road and I owe €600 tax on it now the car isn't insured either I was wondering if I sign the car over to a relative and They sign it back to me in the next few weeks can I tax it then with out paying the arrears or do they have to tax it first before signing it back over to me thanks.

Be careful with advice you receive over the internet..... you may or may not get caught, signing over ownership to avoid tax has been well documented, you would be pretty silly if you think it isn’t going to be flagged and investigated.

colm_mcm · 06-07-2020 10:35pm

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

you would be pretty silly if you think it isn’t going to be flagged and investigated.

It isn’t going to be flagged or investigated.

messrs · 06-07-2020 10:37pm

Xxcj wrote: »

Hi could anyone help me please I forgot to declare my car off the road and I owe €600 tax on it now the car isn't insured either I was wondering if I sign the car over to a relative and They sign it back to me in the next few weeks can I tax it then with out paying the arrears or do they have to tax it first before signing it back over to me thanks.

If your car was actually off the road can you not just go into a guarda station and get them to stamp a form saying it was off the road? I know this used to be a thing years ago but dont know if it still is or not

Dutch_Druid · 06-07-2020 10:41pm

messrs wrote: »

If your car was actually off the road can you not just go into a guarda station and get them to stamp a form saying it was off the road? I know this used to be a thing years ago but dont know if it still is or not

Not anymore, it has to be declared off the road before hand

twin_beacon · 07-07-2020 3:01pm

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

Be careful with advice you receive over the internet..... you may or may not get caught, signing over ownership to avoid tax has been well documented, you would be pretty silly if you think it isn’t going to be flagged and investigated.

Get caught at what though? Buying back your old car that had been parked up for a few months? For someone to be caught at this would require people to monitor car sales, and pass on any suspicious car sales to the guards. They would then have to investigate, and give you a court summons. Then when it gets to court, its basically your word against the guards, with no solid evidence the judge cant convict. All for the sake of a few months back tax? The costs incurred by the state to bring you to court, would be greater than the sum of back tax in the overwhelming majority of cases, not to mention the waste of guards and the courts time. This is why is doesn't happen.

One of my uncles has an old jeep from the early 90s. The gearbox need to be replaced, he kept getting it fixed on the long finger, until eventually two years passed and he realised he never declared it off the road. He went to the tax office to plead his case, and the woman just said to transfer it into his wife's name, and then back to his. Problem solved.

antodeco · 07-07-2020 4:10pm

Current car I have (2k a year tax) had 17 owners before me. Turns out 13 of those owners was the same person!

Isambard · 07-07-2020 5:05pm

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

Be careful with advice you receive over the internet..... you may or may not get caught, signing over ownership to avoid tax has been well documented, you would be pretty silly if you think it isn’t going to be flagged and investigated.

he's not avoiding tax, the car was off the road. The Tax Office will advise you to follow this procedure. That's well documented

Cheensbo · 07-07-2020 5:27pm

When you think about it, getting rid of the aul form (rf100a was it?) didn't make the blindest bit of difference, I may dig out the book - I'm sure as shite not paying this :pac:

Irishphotodesk · 07-07-2020 5:30pm

twin_beacon wrote: »

Get caught at what though? Buying back your old car that had been parked up for a few months? For someone to be caught at this would require people to monitor car sales, and pass on any suspicious car sales to the guards. They would then have to investigate, and give you a court summons. Then when it gets to court, its basically your word against the guards, with no solid evidence the judge cant convict. All for the sake of a few months back tax? The costs incurred by the state to bring you to court, would be greater than the sum of back tax in the overwhelming majority of cases, not to mention the waste of guards and the courts time. This is why is doesn't happen.

One of my uncles has an old jeep from the early 90s. The gearbox need to be replaced, he kept getting it fixed on the long finger, until eventually two years passed and he realised he never declared it off the road. He went to the tax office to plead his case, and the woman just said to transfer it into his wife's name, and then back to his. Problem solved.

If you really believe the highlighted part, how do you explain people brought to court for no TV licence or failure to pay a tram/train fare or even failure to pay the m50 toll .... this happens EVERY week in the district court, at least it did pre covid, (thurs and fri were tv licence, m50 was first tues of every month etc, in four courts in Dublin) I know as I was often in there monitoring the outcome of some of the cases, listening to some of the excuses etc.

Tv licence is €160, cost of going to court is a lot more, Luas tram or train fare are usually only a few euro, m50 costs €3/4 .... in fairness though they usually only brought people to court who were ignoring their letters.

Irishphotodesk · 07-07-2020 5:34pm

Isambard wrote: »

he's not avoiding tax, the car was off the road. The Tax Office will advise you to follow this procedure. That's well documented

Do you have proof the car was off the road and not driven at any stage ?

From the OP

Xxcj wrote: »

Hi could anyone help me please I forgot to declare my car off the road and I owe €600 tax on it now the car isn't insured either I was wondering if I sign the car over to a relative and They sign it back to me in the next few weeks can I tax it then with out paying the arrears or do they have to tax it first before signing it back over to me thanks.

So.... by failure to declare the vehicle off the road in advance, the OP is avoiding tax, if he/she wants to take advice from random people on the internet, let them, if they are old enough to own a vehicle they can make their own opinion on what to do and if caught they must accept the consequences.

whisky_galore · 07-07-2020 5:42pm

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

Be careful with advice you receive over the internet..... you may or may not get caught, signing over ownership to avoid tax has been well documented, you would be pretty silly if you think it isn’t going to be flagged and investigated.

A car crimes tribunal at the Hague.

Sir Galahad · 07-07-2020 6:05pm

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

Be careful with advice you receive over the internet..... you may or may not get caught, signing over ownership to avoid tax has been well documented, you would be pretty silly if you think it isn’t going to be flagged and investigated.

This is up to date advice. The Roads Policing Units have been checking cars for this recently as Revenue had flagged it. Everyone used to do it (including me) but if you do it then make sure the new owner is not the same name or a very close relative.

corcaigh1 · 07-07-2020 6:12pm

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

Be careful with advice you receive over the internet..... you may or may not get caught, signing over ownership to avoid tax has been well documented, you would be pretty silly if you think it isn’t going to be flagged and investigated.

There is absolutely nothing illegal about signing over a vehicle to a relative to avoid tax arrears and then signing it back to your ownership. The car was sold to the relative, end of. Revenue & Gardaí cant do jack sh*t about it.

antodeco wrote: »

Current car I have (2k a year tax) had 17 owners before me. Turns out 13 of those owners was the same person!

LOL! That was mine id say!

corcaigh1 · 07-07-2020 6:17pm

Sir Galahad wrote: »

This is up to date advice. The Roads Policing Units have been checking cars for this recently as Revenue had flagged it. Everyone used to do it (including me) but if you do it then make sure the new owner is not the same name or a very close relative.

Nonsense. Ive been there with my own vehicle, RPU Garda sussed that there had been numerous changeovers to my name and commented on it to me, I replied what law am I breaking Garda? He couldn't answer and I heard no more.

Sir Galahad · 07-07-2020 6:21pm

corcaigh1 wrote: »

Nonsense. Ive been there with my own vehicle, RPU Garda sussed that there had been numerous changeovers to my name and commented on it to me, I replied what law am I breaking Garda? He couldn't answer and I heard no more.

Don't shoot the messenger. I'm only passing on coffee break talk and "you" should pay attention to the detail in my comment about "names" .

Isambard · 07-07-2020 8:42pm

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

Do you have proof the car was off the road and not driven at any stage ?

From the OP

So.... by failure to declare the vehicle off the road in advance, the OP is avoiding tax, if he/she wants to take advice from random people on the internet, let them, if they are old enough to own a vehicle they can make their own opinion on what to do and if caught they must accept the consequences.

I'm taking it on face value. He says he forgot to declare it off the road, so I'm assuming it was off the road. No tax liability arises unless the Owner puts it back on the road himself. Selling it removes the arrears, even if it's to a relative or friend.

. CiniO would be proud of me.

dsmythy · 07-07-2020 10:19pm

If someone is really jobsworthing you...

You sold the car. Minds were changed. Agreed to buy it back.

Find the crime.

twin_beacon · 08-07-2020 8:42am

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

If you really believe the highlighted part, how do you explain people brought to court for no TV licence or failure to pay a tram/train fare or even failure to pay the m50 toll .... this happens EVERY week in the district court, at least it did pre covid, (thurs and fri were tv licence, m50 was first tues of every month etc, in four courts in Dublin) I know as I was often in there monitoring the outcome of some of the cases, listening to some of the excuses etc.

Tv licence is €160, cost of going to court is a lot more, Luas tram or train fare are usually only a few euro, m50 costs €3/4 .... in fairness though they usually only brought people to court who were ignoring their letters.

few points on this.
Firstly, in the examples you mentioned above, there is clear evidence that you did not pay the TV license, luas/train ticket or M50 toll. so its an open an shut case when it gets to court. As I said in my previous post, how do you prove that someone changed ownership of a car to avoid paying the tax? Its up to the discretion of the judge on the day.

not paying a luas/train ticket or an M50 toll, is not an automatic court case. Its in an extreme senario. If you are being brought to court for an unpaid M50 bill, then with the extra penalties that have been applied its well worth their time bringing you to court.

Its very easy to detect someone that has not paid their tv license, M50 toll, or luas train ticket. There is no such system in place to detect anyone that changes ownership of their car to avoid paying the motor tax.

Finally, the most important one. There is nothing illegal about changing the ownership of your car into another person's name, and then changing it back into your name.

SouthWesterly · 08-07-2020 8:45am

As soon as, it's in their name they need to declare it off road or they will be liable for tax.

chuck eastwood · 08-07-2020 8:48am

SouthWesterly wrote: »

As soon as, it's in their name they need to declare it off road or they will be liable for tax.

But the point of the post us that if you do not pay the tax you can change the ownership and a week later change it back. Your tax liability is gone as soon as the ownership has changed. Unless you get caught driving and it's dated then you are grand. I've done this with the car I'm driving right now. Completely legal

DuckSlice · 08-07-2020 8:48am

Cheensbo wrote: »

When you think about it, getting rid of the aul form (rf100a was it?) didn't make the blindest bit of difference, I may dig out the book - I'm sure as shite not paying this :pac:

Why does your amount of arrears go up depending on how long you tax it for? surely your arrears should be fixed for the amount of months you didn't pay tax?

Cheensbo · 08-07-2020 9:04am

etxp wrote: »

Why does your amount of arrears go up depending on how long you tax it for? surely your arrears should be fixed for the amount of months you didn't pay tax?

It doesn't, the arrears are currently €1562.. 22 months based on €710 rate

DuckSlice · 12-07-2020 6:55pm

Cheensbo wrote: »

It doesn't, the arrears are currently €1562.. 22 months based on €710 rate

Ah I thought the left column was arrears only but it’s total. Oops.

buzzing147 · 14-01-2022 6:40pm

I have a car garaged this past 4-5 years, thinking getting it out on road again, made error by not declaring it off the road, will I need a new owner to get tax up to date? Not paying 5 years arrears for a car that hasnt left garage. Do I supposedly buy it back then? U sure won't get letter from tax office wanting arrears? Seen an article in paper a couple were caught doing this and had pay arrears

SouthWesterly · 14-01-2022 7:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118475925#Comment_118475925

If you think that's bad.

I had a guy come into me when I worked in motor tax who had brought a motorbike into the country, registered it but never got around to building it 10 years previously

buzzing147 · 14-01-2022 7:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118476180#Comment_118476180

Yea but is there a normal way around this? Car hasn't been near a road in 5 years, sitting in garage, had it for sale at start 5 years ago, asked in tax office guy said new owner will get updated tax disc, but ended up taking advert down and still sitting here untaxed and not delacred off Rd. I'd tax it again for 3 months yearly and on off etc, if there was a way to update tax:(

Atlantic Dawn · 14-01-2022 7:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118476219#Comment_118476219

Yes sell it to a friend for 2 weeks to take the stress off yourself, then buy it back and the arrears will be erased.

SouthWesterly · 14-01-2022 11:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118476219#Comment_118476219

Sell it to a friend but he needs to declare off road at the time of transfer of ownership. go into the MTO in person for this or post everything into them together . The same process when you buy it back.

Esel · 15-01-2022 12:00am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118477859#Comment_118477859

Why would the friend need to declare the car off the road? They will just be selling the car back in a few days, and have no motor tax concerns in the interim.

buzzing147 · 16-01-2022 2:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118477859#Comment_118477859

I was thinking of selling to to said friend and then they tax it for 3 months and I buy it back off them during the next 3 months, don't understand why I'd have to go into tax office with everything or friend declaring it off road right away? Thought make more sense for friend to get new tax disc for car once new owners papers arrive?

SouthWesterly · 16-01-2022 2:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118484216#Comment_118484216

If you didn't want to have to tax it, it needs to be declared off road upon transfer of ownership

buzzing147 · 16-01-2022 4:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118484357#Comment_118484357

Yea don't mind updating tax disc just hopeing when buy it back it doesn't bring up a red flag and end up getting letter re 5 years tax!

cute geoge · 16-01-2022 4:29pm

Sign it over to your Irish Name ,Job done

Killinator · 16-01-2022 8:32pm

As someone who has people come in to the hatch looking for me to stamp the form like the good old days they have been advised that IF the car happens to aquire a new owner then the tax owed will be cleared and should that 'new' owner change their mind and return it to the 'original seller' then they also will be clear of any tax owed.

I hope most who come in can read between the lines without me spelling it out for them.

It's a loop hole in our shi*e motor tax system so it's fair game. Different deal if I were to come across the car with 6 months tax missing out and about though...

cute geoge · 16-01-2022 8:53pm

I have not taxed my car with 3 years and it is still driving grand!!

Esel · 16-01-2022 9:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118484216#Comment_118484216

Why are you trying to complicate things for yourself and your friend?

The friend does NOT need to tax the car before selling it back to you.

buzzing147 · 16-01-2022 11:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118486408#Comment_118486408

Cause the current tax disc is 2017 and I'm glovebox and would prefer a newer 2022 tax disc and on window, so would get my friend to tax it when he-she buys it

Esel · 16-01-2022 11:56pm

Glovebox, whatever.

If you want him to tax it before selling it back, try to time it so that they get the full 3 months tax or as close to it as possible.

Why not just wait until you buy it back to tax it? That is by far the simplest way to do it. Again, time it so you get as much of the 3 months tax as possible.

buzzing147 · 17-01-2022 12:58am

Yea gonna do it that way, sell it, buy back, then tax it myself once it ready for nct. Does it need to be taxed to go in for nct?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118487121#Comment_118487121

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118487049#Comment_118487049

Esel · 17-01-2022 1:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118487400#Comment_118487400

You can NCT an untaxed car no problem. If you know it needs work to pass the test, get this done before you buy it back if possible.

You are liable for tax from the day the car is registered in your name. If you wait for it to be back in your name before getting work done, and depending how much work and how long it will take, you will be paying tax while the car is not roadworthy.

If it was me, I'd get it NCTd first, get the fail sheet (if it fails), then get those items fixed and retest.

If you are going ahead with the plan, imo you should book the NCT first. You won't get a close date, nearest appointment could be a month or more.

ps What does 'glovebox' mean anyway? Maybe it was autocorrect?

buzzing147 · 17-01-2022 7:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118487436#Comment_118487436

Thanks for advice, will do that. Ah, by glovebox i meant the tax disc from 2017 is sitting in glovebox, and not on window!

km991148 · 17-01-2022 7:38pm

Its hard to keep up with what tax scams are allowed on boards and what one are not..

Esel · 17-01-2022 9:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118491016#Comment_118491016

Do try.

Forgot to declare car off the road

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