Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VIII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

robinph

duploelabs wrote: »

Nixon was pardoned, can't see Biden doing that

The theory is that Trump will pardon himself.

Not sure if it would be wise to pardon himself before he is actually charged though, as that would be an admission of guilt and then when January 21st rolls around they can actually charge him and get the court to say that the pardon doesn't count. No reason for the court to back him once he's out of office, there is nothing in it for them at that point.

But as he'll have already admitted his guilt maybe the cost of the court cases will be reduced and for once he'll have saved the country some money.

But Trump doesn't have the ability to think into the future and see the consequences of his actions so no telling what he'll do.

Quin_Dub

robinph wrote: »

The theory is that Trump will pardon himself.

Not sure if it would be wise to pardon himself before he is actually charged though, as that would be an admission of guilt and then when January 21st rolls around they can actually charge him and get the court to say that the pardon doesn't count. No reason for the court to back him once he's out of office, there is nothing in it for them at that point.

But as he'll have already admitted his guilt maybe the cost of the court cases will be reduced and for once he'll have saved the country some money.

But Trump doesn't have the ability to think into the future and see the consequences of his actions so no telling what he'll do.

The other risk to him pardoning himself (or getting Pence to do it in some last minute switcheroo) is that it removes the protection of the fifth amendment.

So when he gets pulled into the inevitable State level court cases he can't hide behind the 5th to protect himself.

serfboard

duploelabs wrote: »

Nixon was pardoned, can't see Biden doing that

I've wondered before if Trump really believes he is going to lose the election. If he does, then surely he would resign early and get Pence to pardon him?

If he doesn't belive he will lose, but does anyway, can he resign before Biden is appointed? In which case Pence would become President and could pardon him then?

L1011 wrote: »

No president can pardon state offences anyway.

Most important - the only person who can pardon state offences is the Governor, and Andrew Cuomo in New York certainly won't do that.

Leroy42

Quin_Dub wrote: »

The other risk to him pardoning himself (or getting Pence to do it in some last minute switcheroo) is that it removes the protection of the fifth amendment.

So when he gets pulled into the inevitable State level court cases he can't hide behind the 5th to protect himself.

Trump will not be hauled in front of anything. Whatever happens in the election, Trump was and will remain a POTUS. The powers that be will not want a POTUS being dragged through the courts.

There are plenty of people that will come out badly if Trump is properly dealt with, many admin people that turned a blind eye, senators that knew too much, owners in the media, lawyers etc. For a start, Barr will not want Trump to be dealt with, especially given that Trump has shown that he is very happy to turn on anybody to save himself

It will be quietly allowed to drop off the agenda, probably on the basis of cases being slow to go through the courts. Look how long he was able to delay the issue of releasing tax returns.

listermint

Leroy42 wrote: »

Trump will not be hauled in front of anything. Whatever happens in the election, Trump was and will remain a POTUS. The powers that be will not want a POTUS being dragged through the courts.

There are plenty of people that will come out badly if Trump is properly dealt with, many admin people that turned a blind eye, senators that knew too much, owners in the media, lawyers etc. For a start, Barr will not want Trump to be dealt with, especially given that Trump has shown that he is very happy to turn on anybody to save himself

It will be quietly allowed to drop off the agenda, probably on the basis of cases being slow to go through the courts. Look how long he was able to delay the issue of releasing tax returns.

Barr will be gone,

And Trump will face all of the existing cases that are lined up against him.

Quin_Dub

Leroy42 wrote: »

Trump will not be hauled in front of anything. Whatever happens in the election, Trump was and will remain a POTUS. The powers that be will not want a POTUS being dragged through the courts.

There are plenty of people that will come out badly if Trump is properly dealt with, many admin people that turned a blind eye, senators that knew too much, owners in the media, lawyers etc. For a start, Barr will not want Trump to be dealt with, especially given that Trump has shown that he is very happy to turn on anybody to save himself

It will be quietly allowed to drop off the agenda, probably on the basis of cases being slow to go through the courts. Look how long he was able to delay the issue of releasing tax returns.

A lot depends of the scale of any potential Democratic Party victory .but I really don't think he is going to be allowed slip away quietly.

This isn't the '70's when Nixon could drop out of the world.

Enough of the media will chase and hound and take to the courts for disclosure etc. that I just don't think they could get away with sweeping it under the rug.

Tchaikovsky

He can't help himself. He wouldn't be able to slip away quietly even if he tried.

looksee

He was able to 'delay the issue of releasing tax returns' by simply not releasing them. There is no enforcement available. He could make loads of excuses, but in the end all he had to do was just not release them.

Caegan

Even if he was given the opportunity to slip away quietly, does anyone think he could keep his mouth shut long enough not to trip himself up again?

robinph

Caegan wrote: »

Even if he was given the opportunity to slip away quietly, does anyone think he could keep his mouth shut long enough not to trip himself up again?

Not a hope.

I'd be expecting him to refuse to go to the inauguration as well, but at what point in the process does he get released from office? Would he already have been driven to the Capitol by then so would make it harder for him to make a show of stomping off in a grump if all the TV cameras are focusing on counting the exact number of people stood in The Mall instead.

Will probably be a restricted number of people allowed to attend anyway due to Covid-19, so Trump will of course proclaiming victory as he'll have had a bigger crowd.

looksee

On the other hand a socially distanced crowd would stretch for miles

Stallingrad

Attacking Fauci, calling people criminals, swearing (imagine Obama calling Fox bastards), his behavior is increasingly wild, like someone who either knows he has lost and doesn't care anymore, or knows he has won.

Time will tell but I fear it is the latter, you wonder what he knows that no-one else does.

Leroy42

It does feel a bit like Corbyn in the UK at the last GE. All the polls were pointing one way, all the public feedback was pointing one way, but they hung on the belief that everyone else was wrong and another 2017 miracle was going to happen.

The circumstances of 2020 as vastly different than 2016. Even many posters on here claimed at the time that they only supported Trump because HC was so bad, but there isn't that level of feeling towards Biden (either positive of negative). Trump cannot use the 'what have you got to lose' line, as millions are unemployed and living on food banks, are worrying about eviction.

IMO, he is suffering from his own success. He has called everything fake news for so long that now nobody (new at least) takes anything he says or that is released as being true. If everything is fake news, then stories about Biden, Harris etc must be fake news.

There is also the issue of people just being tired of it all. Politics shouldn't be a 24/7 news event. But Trump is on the news every day. Another classless tweet, another lie there. His rambling press conferences, his constant attack on the media, on his enemies, on everyone. There are very few people that were not once fetted as the best, that now are enemies.

But US politics is weird. He will get 40% even if he didn't even stand. Same for Biden. There are millions that aren't either engaged at all or the voting system is simply operated to disenfranchise them. And the EC is such that even if Biden was to win massively in the public vote, it still comes down to a few small but important swing states.

Water John

Remember Trump has openly floated the notion of going into exile. That's a real thought in his head.

Justin Credible Darts

will be glad to see the back off trump, but anyone who thinks biden will be responsible for some great recovery are going to be disappointed

Timberrrrrrrr

Water John wrote: »

Remember Trump has openly floated the notion of going into exile. That's a real thought in his head.

So he will move to a country he isn't a citizen of to escape jail or because he doesn't like the regime that's in government

So Donald Trump is in favour of immigration:D

Detritus70

looksee wrote: »

On the other hand a socially distanced crowd would stretch for miles

I can't wait for the memes. Inauguration crowds stretching back years, packed out. Trump, empty. Biden, miles and miles of people.

looksee

So long as he is gone, I don't much care whether they have a great recovery. If Biden does mastermind a recovery it will just about be taking effect by the next election, at which point people will remember that he oversaw a depression and vote for a Republican. Rinse and repeat.

Though provided it is a normal, diplomatic, competent Republican who is not going to cause upheaval in the rest of the world, they are welcome to elect whoever they wish.

looksee

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

So he will move to a country he isn't a citizen of to escape jail or because he doesn't like the regime that's in government

So Donald Trump is in favour of immigration:D

I wonder will the various dictators that he has been smarming up to be willing to take him in. I imagine they would just laugh.

hirondelle

Water John wrote: »

Remember Trump has openly floated the notion of going into exile. That's a real thought in his head.

I thought this was stunning- done in his usual "oh, just floating a casual thought but it's really what I'm thinking" manner. Maybe his trip to Korea will be repeated! More likely Saudi Arabia if he was thinking of fleeing the jurisdiction. A hostage to fortune in either case.

pixelburp

If there's any credibility to the speculation, bthe first and obvious question would be what countries have no extradition agreement with the US, and substantial enough business interests to mask Trump's fleeing? Russia the first thought that crosses my mind anyway, right?

Water John

In the past a Biden Potus would have been competent and dull. Now, in the times that are in it, I think he grasps that it needs a bold move, refs FDR frequently.
We'll know by the team he assembyls.

BluePlanet

Water John wrote: »

In the past a Biden Potus would have been competent and dull. Now, in the times that are in it, I think he grasps that it needs a bold move, refs FDR frequently.
We'll know by the team he assembyls.

Yeah well his team is apparently compiling a list of Republicans for his cabinet so the Dems are basically changing stripes.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/20/biden-transition-republican-cabinet-429972

VinLieger

BluePlanet wrote: »

Yeah well his team is apparently compiling a list of Republicans for his cabinet so the Dems are basically changing stripes.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/20/biden-transition-republican-cabinet-429972

He needs to take bold steps to try and reunify the country that Trump has spent 4 years completely dividing, something like this could work if he approaches the language and presentation of it in the right way

BluePlanet

VinLieger wrote: »

He needs to take bold steps to try and reunify the country that Trump has spent 4 years completely dividing, something like this could work if he approaches the language and presentation of it in the right way

Could work to win this election, yes.
But to reunify the country? I believe it's too late for that.

Maybe it can finally compel the more socialist minded of Dems to break from the party and USA could see a 3rd party that actually represents people instead of corporations.

Stallingrad

hirondelle wrote: »

I thought this was stunning- done in his usual "oh, just floating a casual thought but it's really what I'm thinking" manner.

I think he was just fishing for a reaction, along the lines of "Don't leave us dear cult leader." Like the guy threatening to jump off a building hoping to be talked down. Another cry for attention.

Then again, he might end up running a TV station in North Korea, you just never know with this guy.

Timberrrrrrrr

looksee wrote: »

I wonder will the various dictators that he has been smarming up to be willing to take him in. I imagine they would just laugh.

Reminds me of the Simpson episode where Mr Burns hands over the $1,000,000,000,000 note to Castro

Burns: Now hand it back"

Casro: Hand what back?

Burns: oh

hirondelle

Stallingrad wrote: »

I think he was just fishing for a reaction, along the lines of "Don't leave us dear cult leader." Like the guy threatening to jump off a building hoping to be talked down. Another cry for attention.

Then again, he might end up running a TV station in North Korea, you just never know with this guy.

Oh I think he is always looking for the response from the crowd (Mary Trump's book is very interesting in terms of the deficits in his upbringing from an emotional aspect!), but it was such a bizarre reach for him- he doesn't strike you as somebody interested in experiencing new cultures so why not just say he would remove himself from public life? I'm clearly speculating but I thought it showed something of the self doubt that he may be experiencing for possibly the first time in his adult life.

VinLieger

BluePlanet wrote: »

Could work to win this election, yes.
But to reunify the country? I believe it's too late for that.

It wont change anyone's mind who is already voting a hard R and anyone in the undecided doesn't care about things like this. This is to placate those in the case where he wins who honestly think hes gonna walk through the streets killing babies and making the police illegal etc

BluePlanet wrote: »

Maybe it can finally compel the more socialist minded of Dems to break from the party and USA could see a 3rd party that actually represents people instead of corporations.

If it hasn't happened yet its not gonna happen cus of this. And any dem who would consider breaking off because of this is imo incredibly selfish and quite simply ignorant.

BluePlanet

VinLieger wrote: »

If it hasn't happened yet its not gonna happen cus of this. And any dem who would consider breaking off because of this is imo incredibly selfish and quite simply ignorant.

It's happening whether Biden wins or looses.

If he wins he at least gets a chance at keeping the Dem umbrella somewhat united.
IMO it's likely he and his handlers learn the wrong lessons per usual and he looses the Left.