Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VIII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

Christy42

Man with broke phone wrote: »

If you slow things down and explain your points to me I will reply, to me it sounds like a few random things. Im not sure what you are asking but Im here with an open mind and if you explain what you mean I will hear them out.

Trump boasted about how great it was that a reporter was shot by a rubber bullet. Do you support this sort of violence or is it not a big deal. For me that should be a deal breaker. Fine you can not like Biden but you should want someone else instead of someone who wants violence against reporters (not his first time either, he was very pro that Montana thug attacking a reporter for asking a question a few years back).

The situation today with Mitch trying to ram through a justice in super quick time is different than 4 years ago when the Republicans spent ages blocking Garland without a hearing. Now people have already started voting. Plus they set the standard of waiting till the election when a justice dies in an election year which is what the Democrats expect them to stand to.

Mitch decided not to bother putting the corona virus relief bill to the floor for months because, well ask him but I suspect it is due to his dislike of helping poor people. Here he has a chance to hurt women's rights and so is all over getting work done in super quick time.

Quin_Dub

StringerBell wrote: »

I see it being reported that Graham has shockingly done yet another 180 and said he will support trump in any effort to push forward on the nomination.

Americans have a thing about flip floppers and this is going to be one hell of an example of flip flopping from a whole lot of spineless, devoid of integrity bottom feeders.

I read a perfect description of Graham the other day.

Basically , they said that Graham was like a pilot fish - He attaches himself to the nearest Apex fish and swim along with them.

McCain was the Apex and when Graham was connected to him he gained a degree of respect etc. on that basis.

McCain then died and Graham needed to find a new Apex to cling to and he chose Trump and is now a reflection of him.

“People try to analyze Lindsey through the prism of the manifest inconsistencies that exist between things that he used to believe and what he’s doing now,” Schmidt says. “The way to understand him is to look at what’s consistent. And essentially what he is in American politics is what, in the aquatic world, would be a pilot fish: a smaller fish that hovers about a larger predator, like a shark, living off of its detritus. That’s Lindsey. And when he swam around the McCain shark, broadly viewed as a virtuous and good shark, Lindsey took on the patina of virtue. But wherever the apex shark is, you find the Lindsey fish hovering about, and Trump’s the newest shark in the sea.

Lindsey has a real draw to power — but he’s found it unattainable on his own merits.”

VinLieger

Quin_Dub wrote: »

I read a perfect description of Graham the other day.

Basically , they said that Graham was like a pilot fish - He attaches himself to the nearest Apex fish and swim along with them.

McCain was the Apex and when Graham was connected to him he gained a degree of respect etc. on that basis.

McCain then died and Graham needed to find a new Apex to cling to and he chose Trump and is now a reflection of him.

Its a good analogy however i still 100% believe somebody also has pictures of him

Chips Lovell

Mod Note
Another user has been threadbanned. If you can't have a civil conversation, don't post here.

abff

I know that opinions on this thread are very polarised and that most people can appear at times to be totally closed to the idea that anything anyone on the other side says is valid. Personally, I find it very hard to take anything that’s said by Trump supporters at face value. But I try to do so.

Unfortunately, I find that any valid point they might be making is usually lost in the middle of over inflated rhetoric and an apparent assumption that if you don’t support Trump, you must be a far left extremist. I think this is an almost inevitable byproduct of the way in which Trump is running his election campaign, but I am open to considering any reasonable points that any Trump supporters might wish to make as to why another four years with Trump might be a good thing rather than the unmitigated disaster that I fear it would be.

pixelburp

The problem with an even handed discussion of the Trump presidency, as is the case with Brexit IMO, is that more often than not support for both can be based upon a highly emotive decision; and because emotional decisions have more of a tendency towards Sunk Cost or an aggressive rejection of logic or legislative response, it reduces the conversation into a "he said, she said". It can't go anywhere except the personal or argumentative.

That's not to say there's a right and wrong here. Although I would argue a lot of key decisions with the Trump Presidency & Brexit are short sighted & selfish at best (many of Trump's executive decisions) or dangerous Disaster Capitalism at worst (the entirity of Brexit). Fundamentally IMO, the Trump Presidency is one of "feeling" and anti-intellectualism - again ala Brexit - where its key tenets are based around rejecting the very ammunition those arguing against it might use: ie, facts, figures and the granular discussion that's both rigorous - and boring. America is broken but fixing it requires long-term thinking and complex solutions. It's like Climate Change: as the comedian David Mitchell once remarked, you can throw as many celebrities at the problem as you like; but at the end of the day, fixing our environment is a long, tedious and boring task you can't sex up. Humans as a group don't have the patience for that (which is why in the dead of night I've often thought saving the world might require a Benevolant Dicator or AI lol)

Trump & Brexit have offered exciting, easy answers to complex problems and to plead complexity in response is to feed into that sense both movements are responding to, that pushback against "the experts" seen ever since 2008 saw the world economic crash. To me, that was the kernel which really started this anti-intellectualism. Without sounding smug or reductive, there's a sense that pleading logic to a Trump supporter is akin to begging a nihilist against the joys of burning everything down; for them, that's the appeal.

Tell me how

pixelburp wrote: »

That's not to say there's a right and wrong here. Although I would argue a lot of key decisions with the Trump Presidency & Brexit are short sighted & selfish at best (many of Trump's executive decisions) or dangerous Disaster Capitalism at worst (the entirity of Brexit). Fundamentally IMO, the Trump Presidency is one of "feeling" and anti-intellectualism - again ala Brexit - where its key tenets are based around rejecting the very ammunition those arguing against it might use: ie, facts, figures and the granular discussion that's both rigorous - and boring. America is broken but fixing it requires long-term thinking and complex solutions. It's like Climate Change: as the comedian David Mitchell once remarked, you can throw as many celebrities at the problem as you like; but at the end of the day, fixing our environment is a long, tedious and boring task you can't sex up. Humans as a group don't have the patience for that (which is why in the dead of night I've often thought saving the world might require a Benevolant Dicator or AI lol)

Trump & Brexit have offered exciting, easy answers to complex problems and to plead complexity in response is to feed into that sense both movements are responding to, that pushback against "the experts" seen ever since 2008 saw the world economic crash. To me, that was the kernel which really started this anti-intellectualism. Without sounding smug or reductive, there's a sense that pleading logic to a Trump supporter is akin to begging a nihilist against the joys of burning everything down; for them, that's the appeal.

I agree with a lot here but am also somewhat more sceptical on the opportunities or likelihood of fixing things as I think that that cannot happen without a strong government with the support of a large section of the population and currently, this is far from being possible.

Even if Biden wins, there are still going to be issues, Covid, BLM, Climate, gun control, immigration etc in the US. Tackling these would involve diametrically opposing conservative views in many cases and as a consequence, this will be fueled by conservative politicians seeking to gain power once again. They will always have something to point to in order to say that things are bad under the Democrats and so finding an eager audience will not be difficult. And the rise of the social media influencer/celebrity has changed the game in how public opinion is formed.

I mentioned on Boards recently that unfortunately, I think a cataclysmic event could be all that would bring the US together at this point as they unite in its aftermath (as with 911) but that would like burning a house down to fix a damaged roof.

I'd be even more pessimistic when looking at Irish politics. We have seen Peter Casey and Herman Kelly and a few more seek to appeal to a particular sector of society and we have seen a growing voice in opposition to science, unity, education etc with the increase in numbers following the narrative from some ultra regressive individuals.
As time goes on, as the economy, jobs, housing, healthcare etc continue to be an issue, I fear that we will see these groups gain even more and more support. There will always be something which they can point to to say that the government is wrong, or full of 'the elite' etc leading to people to consider radical alternatives such as the above. Have seen such a narrative grow significantly on Boards in recent years.

I've had friends and former colleagues send me links and memes etc which, to me, indicate they are going down a sinister path and I fear we will see more and more of that.

Detritus70

Man with broke phone wrote: »

If you slow things down and explain your points to me I will reply, to me it sounds like a few random things. Im not sure what you are asking but Im here with an open mind and if you explain what you mean I will hear them out.

If it's too fast, just read slower.

CelticRambler

Tell me how wrote: »

I mentioned on Boards recently that unfortunately, I think a cataclysmic event could be all that would bring the US together at this point as they unite in its aftermath (as with 911) but that would like burning a house down to fix a damaged roof.

The way the population of the US has been polarised in just about every social and political domain, I don't believe there is any event or person who could now re-unite the states in any long-lasting way. To a certain extent, that's only "natural" because the US is not an alliance born out of a shared identity: it's more akin to the UK or Yugoslavia - a collection of states and territories bundled together by outside forces, and whose raison d'être has long since ceased to exist.

I don't expect that I'll see the break-up of the United States in my lifetime, but so much of that country's politics is based on 17th century habits, sooner or later one or other of the more forwards-looking states will decide they'd be better off outside the Union, and free from the toxicity currently on display.

looksee

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54238101

Not sure how the BBC has this when neither CNN or MSNBC has it, but between Barr and Trump this just reads as spite. The Mayors are threatening to sue. Presumably all New York has to do is not pay, since it gives more than it receives?

Has this ever happened before - states being refused federal payments?

The Trump administration has named three cities that are slated to lose federal funding after the White House accused them of tolerating crime.

New York City, Portland and Seattle are on the list of "anarchist cities" that Trump officials say have failed to stem crime linked to a summer of protests.

Itssoeasy

looksee wrote: »

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54238101

Not sure how the BBC has this when neither CNN or MSNBC has it, but between Barr and Trump this just reads as spite. The Mayors are threatening to sue. Presumably all New York has to do is not pay, since it gives more than it receives?

Has this ever happened before - states being refused federal payments?

NBC news had it so not sure why MSNBC didn’t have it. I’ve no idea if it’s happened before but the likelihood is that probably not like this.

New York just stops contributing to the the country and let’s see how Kentucky and those states get on.

duploelabs

pixelburp wrote: »

The problem with an even handed discussion of the Trump presidency, as is the case with Brexit IMO, is that more often than not support for both can be based upon a highly emotive decision; and because emotional decisions have more of a tendency towards Sunk Cost or an aggressive rejection of logic or legislative response, it reduces the conversation into a "he said, she said". It can't go anywhere except the personal or argumentative.

That's not to say there's a right and wrong here. Although I would argue a lot of key decisions with the Trump Presidency & Brexit are short sighted & selfish at best (many of Trump's executive decisions) or dangerous Disaster Capitalism at worst (the entirity of Brexit). Fundamentally IMO, the Trump Presidency is one of "feeling" and anti-intellectualism - again ala Brexit - where its key tenets are based around rejecting the very ammunition those arguing against it might use: ie, facts, figures and the granular discussion that's both rigorous - and boring. America is broken but fixing it requires long-term thinking and complex solutions. It's like Climate Change: as the comedian David Mitchell once remarked, you can throw as many celebrities at the problem as you like; but at the end of the day, fixing our environment is a long, tedious and boring task you can't sex up. Humans as a group don't have the patience for that (which is why in the dead of night I've often thought saving the world might require a Benevolant Dicator or AI lol)

Trump & Brexit have offered exciting, easy answers to complex problems and to plead complexity in response is to feed into that sense both movements are responding to, that pushback against "the experts" seen ever since 2008 saw the world economic crash. To me, that was the kernel which really started this anti-intellectualism. Without sounding smug or reductive, there's a sense that pleading logic to a Trump supporter is akin to begging a nihilist against the joys of burning everything down; for them, that's the appeal.

That needs to be published, bang on the money

briany

duploelabs wrote: »

That needs to be published, bang on the money

If Trumpists cannot be reasoned with, then short of forcibly suppressing their views, the only way to dispel them is to let their game play out and collapse into ruin and thereafter draw their own conclusions.

VinLieger

briany wrote: »

If Trumpists cannot be reasoned with, then short of forcibly suppressing their views, the only way to dispel them is to let their game play out and collapse into ruin and thereafter draw their own conclusions.

Wherin it will still always be somebody elses fault, brexit is a great example. Theyve got what they say they wanted, the UK has left but now its the EUs fault for not giving them the promised easy as pie trade deal and bowing down to all their demands. They will never admit they were wrong or mislead.

Headshot

So with the debate coming up at the end of the month, where will it be held and do we know who will be over seeing the debate yet?

Itssoeasy

Headshot wrote: »

So with the debate coming up at the end of the month, where will it be held and do we know who will be over seeing the debate yet?

Don’t know where it is but it’s Chris Wallace of Fox News who is moderating the debate.

Water John

I think the moderator is Chris Wallace and is on the 29/30th Sept.
Open to correction.

Headshot

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Don’t know where it is but it’s Chris Wallace of Fox News who is moderating the debate.

Chris Wallace, im okay with this. I dont think Trump will get an easy time even from the propaganda branch of his administration "FOX News"

Tell me how

There are 3 debates scheduled between Trump/Biden.

Guy:Incognito

pixelburp wrote: »

Without sounding smug or reductive, there's a sense that pleading logic to a Trump supporter is akin to begging a nihilist against the joys of burning everything down; for them, that's the appeal.

Its like the conspiracy theory forum. Presenting them with evidence just makes them look for a comma in the wrong place and they use that as the basis that its wrong and the system is just against them.

None of the stuff stands up to any scrutiny but they just dont want to know. Look at the evangelicals. They are making him some sort of god like figure because he says he is "pro life" , despite everything about the man being against what they say they stand for. Havnt seen any of them looking for him to be put to death for adultery for instance............

His whole presidency has been the conspiracy playbook. Throw out some bull****, let the people bite, then just when its time to pony up with action, throw the next one out and they move on and forget the last one didnt pay off. All the things he says will happen never do but they just remember him saying it will.

They dont even see all the irony beating them in the face. Things like saying the stuff in the atlantic is made up because "anonymous sources"(even though the sources are not anonymous to the reporters) but at the same time their twitter feed is full of Qanon nonsense.

bobbyy gee

trump delays mail in voting


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/21/usps-post-office-mail-slowdowns-louis-dejoy

Itssoeasy

Water John wrote: »

I think the moderator is Chris Wallace and is on the 29/30th Sept.
Open to correction.

Correct. I was reminded of it several times yesterday while I was watching the Philadelphia eagles lose and the game was on Fox.

Water John

CNN say they are carrying it live.
See trump rally in Ohio ATM, doubt REM are happy at their music being used.

Carfacemandog

Has anyone got an idea where to find the ad Fox News were showing during the NFL games yesterday, for the debates? People really should see them, they didn't come over as biased, but are among the most batsh*t things I have seen in the last 4 years and might just be the greatest 60 second microcosm ever made on what is wrong with America's attitude to politics. I don't think I've even seen anything from actual reality TV ads that seemed even half as trashy.

Tell me how

Carfacemandog wrote: »

Has anyone got an idea where to find the ad Fox News were showing during the NFL games yesterday, for the debates? People really should see them, they didn't come over as biased, but are among the most batsh*t things I have seen in the last 4 years and might just be the greatest 60 second microcosm ever made on what is wrong with America's attitude to politics. I don't think I've even seen anything from actual reality TV ads that seemed even half as trashy.

More batsh*t than this?

https://twitter.com/JacobRubashkin/status/1308102428240359424

StringerBell

There's always a tweet, except this time. There's actually audio, from trump speaking with Cuomo regarding what happens with an open senate seat in an election year. Naturally he is in lockstep with the republicans, too close to an election. Will any of them care? Not a jot. A more repugnant bunch I can't remember in my lifetime in that country.

Edit: trump has been pretty honest about why he wants to fill the seat so fast funnily enough, he spoke about the issues that will be coming from the election that will likely go to the supreme court.

Rjd2

EltonJohn69 wrote: »

Joe Rogan

3 hours long, Rogan spends most of the time asking them about aliens and pot.

"roll that clip again their Jamie"

Crap joke aside, would be good to see somebody outside the mainstream media bubble host one, but obviously even if Trump were not the nominee to find someone the Dems and Republicans would agree on would be impossible.

salmocab

Rjd2 wrote: »

3 hours long, Rogan spends most of the time asking them about aliens and pot.

"roll that clip again their Jamie"

Crap joke aside, would be good to see somebody outside the mainstream media bubble host one, but obviously even if Trump were not the nominee to find someone the Dems and Republicans would agree on would be impossible.

The problem with going outside of what’s called MSM is getting someone qualified to do the job, in Irish terms you’d end up with someone from RTÉ who isn’t a journo which means we’d get Ray Darcy, I’m not sure who the American equivalent is but nobody really wants that standard of moderation.

5GMadeMeDoIt

Tell me how wrote: »

More batsh*t than this?

https://twitter.com/JacobRubashkin/status/1308102428240359424

Maybe I'm in the wrong here, but that seems more like a depiction of Genghis Khan than Attila the Hun?

I blame the schools.

Igotadose

5GMadeMeDoIt wrote: »

Maybe I'm in the wrong here, but that seems more like a depiction of Genghis Khan than Attila the Hun?

I blame the schools.

Yeah, whoever made that abysmal commercial got their historic figures wrong. Twitter's gone mad with it. But, hey, Loeffler made her $$ off of Covid, she'll go back to being the spouse of some wealthy wall streeter if she loses the election with all kinds of DC connections now.