Covid19 Part XIX-25,802 in ROI (1,753 deaths) 5,859 in NI (556 deaths) (21/07)Read OP

ShineOn7

Eod100 wrote: »

Newatalk had a reporter at Dublin airport recently and estimated 70 or 80 people per flight.

Wait, what? 70 to 80 Americans/British on many flights?

That can't be right surely

Boggles

stephenjmcd wrote: »

And I know you say its trump sounding but it is true the more you test the more you find. If we had kept testing at the levels of 2 weeks ago and not gone into nursing homes again we wouldn't be finding the cases. 5 asymptomatic healthcare staff in 1 nursing home. Another with 1 case found that hadn't had a case since April.

So 6 cases?

Instances of the virus are on the rise, it's that simple.

You pretty much said it yourself earlier.

KrustyUCC

Boggles wrote: »

They are looking at the schools.

If they open the pubs, allow 100 to gather indoors and 500 outdoors in 10 days and 6-8 weeks later it surges and they have to back track on full reopening of schools.

Then you will see massive economic damage.

If we see a doubling of the trend or more in the next 10 days, NPHET will not recommend going ahead with phase 4, up to the government then on what to do.

That's an argument fine

Denmark have schools and pubs etc opened

No real second wave

They had 76 cases 29 June and 47 on 6th of July

Cases will go up and down

If they want the schools open here all they need do is say the schools open on time

No ifs no buts no maybes and its time teachers get back to work

Storm 10

Tonight in Northern Ireland all bars and restaurants are open and you can fly to Spain Italy and Germany were on the same Island for ffs

stephenjmcd

Boggles wrote: »

So 6 cases?

Instances of the virus are on the rise, it's that simple.

You pretty much said it yourself earlier.

6 cases that we've been given data of I use as an example of cases that 2 weeks ago wouldn't have been found. The rest aren't being given.

Of course there's more cases they've said themselves this was expected.

Surely though you understand that when you do two thirds more tests this week than 2 weeks ago you find more cases. Today for example 10 more than 2 weeks ago but 6000 more tests

fritzelly

Storm 10 wrote: »

Tonight in Northern Ireland all bars and restaurants are open and you can fly to Spain Italy and Germany were on the same Island for ffs

That's next weekend planned

Eod100

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

How many of those were Irish? How many of those were travelling for something work related? How many of those were of Irish descent coming back for important family visits? Were the flights coming from areas with high numbers of the virus?

I'm not saying it's not something to be looked at, but it's a bit of a leap to assume anyone coming here is on holiday.

They didn't or couldn't interview everyone obviously but the people they did were American, from Florida and Texas some of worst affected areas and not there for any urgent family reasons according to themselves. I think it's fair to think anyone is not everyone but it's still a valid concern when travel is non essential and people are meant to self isolate. If neither of those criteria aren't being met they shouldn't travel according to the guidance.

Eod100

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Wait, what? 70 to 80 Americans/British on many flights?

That can't be right surely

That was figure Newstalk reporter gave for the few American flights they were in airport for. Wouldn't imagine all are American and no way of knowing how representative it is. Would think airlines could provide passenger manifest to airports to know how many to expect though

Doctor Jimbob

Eod100 wrote: »

They didn't or couldn't interview everyone obviously but the people they did were American, from Florida and Texas some of worst affected areas and not there for any urgent family reasons according to themselves. I think it's fair to think anyone is not everyone but it's still a valid concern when travel is non essential and people are meant to self isolate. If neither of those criteria aren't being met they shouldn't travel according to the guidance.

Yeah, in fairness I agree it's a valid concern and should be looked at more. My first post was more aimed at the "heard from a whatsapp there were Americans in Tramore/there was an English reg car driving about" kind of thing.

JP Liz V1

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

A lot of complaining on here about Americans and British people. Does anyone actually know how many are here on holiday rather than just living here? My partner is American, lives here now, has been here since before the lockdown. We've been travelling around the country over the past week doing plenty of shopping and dining out, and if anyone overheard us speaking they could quite easily assume she's here on holiday. I'm sure there are plenty more in a similar situation.

Even for the ones that are on holiday, I'm sure the majority of them are being careful. We need every bit of money into the economy we can get at the moment. I'm all for sensible restrictions like social distancing, masks, and even discouraging travel. But the idea of closing down the borders altogether as some seem to want is completely unrealistic with our current number of cases.

theboss80 wrote: »

Killarney is mobbed again with tourists. My wife works in retail in town and she said talking to some American customers they are flying to UK and getting ferry or driving down from north in rental cars. It was announced yesterday that people coming from abroad to NI wont have to quarantine anymore, they obviously weren't anyway.

What we are doing is all for nothing if that's the case. The countries borders should have been shut long ago and stayed shut until this passes.

An American couple's two-week vacation in Ireland has turned in to a four-month stay due to the United States COVID-19 travel restrictions.

Pujah Shah, a native of Australia, and Tyler Hoggatt, a US citizen, arrived in West Cork and have been stranded there since March 14, following the lockdown restrictions introduced in Ireland

The couple who live in Seattle, Washington, spoke to, local radio station, C103, and explained that Donald Trump's administration's move to implement a ban on certain work visas means that Shah is now unable to return to the United States. In late June, President Donald Trump extended the 60-day ban on employment visas, including H-1B visas, H-2B visas, H-4 visas, L-1 visas, and certain J-1 visas.

https://www.irishcentral.com/news/trump-covid-visa-ban-us-couple-west-cork

Eod100

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Yeah, in fairness I agree it's a valid concern and should be looked at more. My first post was more aimed at the "heard from a whatsapp there were Americans in Tramore/there was an English reg car driving about" kind of thing.

Yeah I think some of those cases have been exaggerated because same rumours get repeated so seem like different cases. But not sure why media hadn't sent reporters to airport before now to clarify, fairly easy to do. Also when US doesn't let in people who aren't citizens or residents, then why do we let in people who aren't citizens or residents?

fritzelly

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

https://www.irishcentral.com/news/trump-covid-visa-ban-us-couple-west-cork

I maybe mistaken but that ban only extended to new visas and not existing ones so why didn't they go back?

timsey tiger

Eod100 wrote: »

Yeah I think some of those cases have been exaggerated because same rumours get repeated so seem like different cases. But not sure why media hadn't sent reporters to airport before now to clarify, fairly easy to do. Also when US doesn't let in people who aren't citizens or residents, then why do we let in people who aren't citizens or residents?

Or at least insist on a test at their expense along with the pretend quarantine.

Arghus

Boggles wrote: »

Thread is gone full Trump.

We only have cases because we are testing.

Stop testing = no cases.

Instances of the virus is on the rise, it's pretty simple.

I have a sinking feeling that in a few weeks we'll be reading things in this thread along the lines of "cases are still under fifty a day, nothing to be worried about, we're doing great". Then followed by "cases are still under a hundred, nothing to worry about"...

What Username Guidelines

Hse report out for the day, no change, 11 in hospital + 9 in ICU.

No cases detected in hospitals in last 24 hrs.

Neamhshuntasach

Eod100 wrote: »

Not trying to be funny but did ye try to warn them off coming here? Know it shouldn't be your responsibility but think people need to let any people planning to come here know the lay of the land. Without self-isolating they really aren't welcome here. Sounds harsh but have to put health of country first.

We didn't know they were coming here at this time. We knew last year that they had said they were planning on coming next summer. Like they weren't coming to visit us or nothing and wouldn't be too close. We've met up with them before when here but won't be this time. Well maybe at the end of their month stay if no one is sick. The wife told her on one of the messaging things that they shouldn't be just going out and doing things here and that they are supposed to isolate for 2 weeks. But her cousin said they would be careful. Like as if it's something just as simple as looking left and right when crossing the road. Their pictures from the Celt the other day and Glendaloch today didn't show much social distancing with random strangers. Now they could be grand and none of them have it. But there is a greater risk that they have it than most people in Ireland at this stage.

Voltairey

s1ippy wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=al8ty3T9SWo

As if they're going to live on air admit that they're going to the Hill of Tara and Newgrange.

Except that one lad who says it's a hoax

Neamhshuntasach

The best way to stop house parties is to open up the pubs. Release clear guidelines now and allow pubs put them in place where they follow them to the letter. Make laws with harsh penalties if warned and still not addressed. At least they are controlled environments and people entering have details collected for contact tracing. House parties have zero control on them and there would probably be people waking up the next day and not even having a clue where they **** they were the night before.

What Username Guidelines

Neamhshuntasach wrote: »

We didn't know they were coming here at this time. We knew last year that they had said they were planning on coming next summer. Like they weren't coming to visit us or nothing and wouldn't be too close. We've met up with them before when here but won't be this time. Well maybe at the end of their month stay if no one is sick. The wife told her on one of the messaging things that they shouldn't be just going out and doing things here and that they are supposed to isolate for 2 weeks. But her cousin said they would be careful. Like as if it's something just as simple as looking left and right when crossing the road. Their pictures from the Celt the other day and Glendaloch today didn't show much social distancing with random strangers. Now they could be grand and none of them have it. But there is a greater risk that they have it than most people in Ireland at this stage.

I think it’s a bit like rules of the road. People will pick and choose what suits them and stick to that, convincing themselves they’re acting perfectly responsibly. Often while looking on in disgust at other flaunting either the same stuff or other rules that they’re comfortable with.for example, ask people if they speed, most will say no. Then you tell them that 97% of drivers break the limit in 30km/h zones in Ireland. They’ll likely then argue that 30km zones are too stringent/stupid/etc.

So in this scenario people may attempt to isolate for a fortnight, but sure you “have to get food, so nipping to the shops should be ok, right?”. Or those who don’t apply common sense, and look upon them as rules “the government can’t tell me I can’t buy food” or “they can’t police people getting food”. Even if they don’t fully believe these things, they’ll convince themselves of it to justify it.

Having said all that, the likelihood of people carrying it is low, so most that do the above will be fine and not effect anyone. But the rules are there to catch the one or two or more that might not be fine, and that’s what makes this all so hard.

stephenjmcd

Neamhshuntasach wrote: »

The best way to stop house parties is to open up the pubs. Release clear guidelines now and allow pubs put them in place where they follow them to the letter. Make laws with harsh penalties if warned and still not addressed. At least they are controlled environments and people entering have details collected for contact tracing. House parties have zero control on them and there would probably be people waking up the next day and not even having a clue where they **** they were the night before.

Exactly, contact tracing logs to hand in pubs, measures in place.
At the moment I'd rather be in the controlled environment at my own table than a house party with some people I dont know.

Make clear cut legislation that if you dont follow the guidelines you risk being closed, 3 strikes, a warning first, closure for period of time next and third refusal of licence in September.

The issue in Dame Lane last week was born out of a lack of pubs. If everywhere had of been open there wouldn't have been bags of cans

Lyle

KrustyUCC wrote: »

That's an argument fine

Denmark have schools and pubs etc opened

No real second wave

They had 76 cases 29 June and 47 on 6th of July

Cases will go up and down

If they want the schools open here all they need do is say the schools open on time

No ifs no buts no maybes and its time teachers get back to work

The problem is that the government don't want to do what Denmark are doing, nor can they really. As far as I know the Danes have schools attending in reduced numbers, with kids in pods of a dozen or half dozen, along with outdoor learning where possible and designated shifts for students. Our lot want everyone back in all at once as much as is feasible and we don't have the classroom space to split up classes, on top of the fact that a lot of school buildings are not fit for purpose anyway and it doesn't sound like we have a large pool of spare teachers floating around the place either to deal with overspill from reduced numbers in classrooms or if teachers get sick or have bad underlying health conditions or anything else.

Teachers want to go back to work, because blended learning is a pile of sh*te and stressed everyone out, but the unions and the teachers/SNAs/Principals/admin staff all want, need and deserve guarantees around funding and detailed guidelines and safety measures before anything is made concrete and these must come from the Department of Education. The DoE is, unfortunately, run by a bunch of f*cking useless sh*theads based on their performance so far.

There is no other comparable working environment to a classroom full of 20 - 30 lunatic children and it is without a doubt the most difficult facet of society to safely handle as we proceed through the pandemic. You can't just fling the schools open without very detailed provisions (the DoE have delayed in delivering these for months now) and a new budget that could easily need to run into the hundreds of millions. It's a disaster waiting to happen if its not handled correctly, and as I've said, the DoE is sh*t!

What Username Guidelines

Neamhshuntasach wrote: »

The best way to stop house parties is to open up the pubs. Release clear guidelines now and allow pubs put them in place where they follow them to the letter. Make laws with harsh penalties if warned and still not addressed. At least they are controlled environments and people entering have details collected for contact tracing. House parties have zero control on them and there would probably be people waking up the next day and not even having a clue where they **** they were the night before.

I had the same thought tbh but people go to pubs to relax and unwind. If the rules remove some of the atmosphere, you’ve got your mates, your drinks, but it doesn’t feel the same as it used to. Then the pub loses its draw and a house party is a way to relax. I’m not saying don’t open them, I’m not a massive drinker so don’t hold too much of an opinion. But open or closed, house parties will happen because, like pubs used to be, it’s a place to unwind, socialise, and let go after spending a day or week in work, a place with “rules” and “guidelines”.

timsey tiger

Lyle wrote: »

The problem is that the government don't want to do what Denmark are doing, nor can they really.

They have also closed their border with their problem neighbour which we don,'t want to either.

Atlantic Dawn

Nearly 60k new cases already in US today, wtf are they at?

s1ippy

Just 20k cases until 1% of the American population has tested positive. The CDC reckon that's 10-20% of the actual cases.

timsey tiger

Neamhshuntasach wrote: »

The best way to stop house parties is to open up the pubs. Release clear guidelines now and allow pubs put them in place where they follow them to the letter. Make laws with harsh penalties if warned and still not addressed. At least they are controlled environments and people entering have details collected for contact tracing. House parties have zero control on them and there would probably be people waking up the next day and not even having a clue where they **** they were the night before.

I really don't understand why people are so down on house parties. They must be far safer than pubs. All participants know each other, with no possibility of an outside person introducing the virus into the group.

Where do you all think those tourists from America and such go to unwind when here.

Voltairey

Neamhshuntasach wrote: »

The best way to stop house parties is to open up the pubs. Release clear guidelines now and allow pubs put them in place where they follow them to the letter. Make laws with harsh penalties if warned and still not addressed. At least they are controlled environments and people entering have details collected for contact tracing. House parties have zero control on them and there would probably be people waking up the next day and not even having a clue where they **** they were the night before.

Personally when the pubs close I'm raring for a gaf to go back to... Keep her lit.

That said haven't been out in a while so the new normal me hasn't tested the waters yet. But I'd imagine the people partying can't afford the pubs anyway. Like myself

ACitizenErased

timsey tiger wrote: »

I really don't understand why people are so down on house parties. They must be far safer than pubs. All participants know each other, with no possibility of an outside person introducing the virus into the group.

Where do you all think those tourists from America and such go to unwind when here.

That's a fair point. You could argue both ways.
House party - likely you know each other, likely a once off event.
Pub - don't know others but there is a contact tracing log in place (hopefully anyway) and you may or may not return a number of times.

Wolf359f

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

Hse report out for the day, no change, 11 in hospital + 9 in ICU.

No cases detected in hospitals in last 24 hrs.

That has to be the first time in a long time with no new admissions?
New cases are up and down and I can understand both sides of the argument, but with cases so low and increase can seem like a lot. The hospital figures are certainly encouraging.
I can only imagine all hospital staff's reaction when they were seeing 500+ cases a day being announced, knowing they will see increases in hospitals a week later. Had to have be demoralizing for them.

Goldengirl

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

And a relative working in a nursing home here has been tested several times. Strange.

Nursing homes getting regularly tested .
Hospital staff only if dealing with Covid patients or close contact with a newly diagnosed case .
Should be screened regularly you would think .