Graham Linehan banned from twitter for questioning "trans ideology"

CtevenSrowder

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Do you imagine the staff working in the UK prison services are thick or something? I know men do obviously, but do you? Do you imagine everyone is equally as thick that they cannot see when someone is taking the piss and have their No moment as you suggested earlier?

What would that figure have to do with the legislation anyway? It’s a matter for the prison services to sort out. The figure for people who abuse the law has nothing to do with the figures for people who avail of their rights for their intended purpose.


“Time to do away with marriage legislation for everyone , some people were found to be abusing it” :rolleyes:

But Jack, if self id becomes a thing over there, who are you or anyone to proclaim someone is 'taking the piss'. That is transphobic.

LLMMLL

LLMMLL wrote: »

It's the only way to understand how people use language. To actually observe how people use it.

I observe that black people use the dirty n word a lot. If I identify as black, can I use the bad n word with your support?

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Gruffalox wrote: »

But what does your username indicate ODB?

Mine is because I wanted loads of other names and all of them were taken and I was just putting in random words at the end and when it accepted i couldn't even remember what I put in and I was like ffs when it said Welcome to Boards Gruffalox

But is suppose it means I am a mythical hairy monster...


My God! It fits perfectly!

Mine’s taken from a Breaking Bad quote. :pac:

Rodin

I wonder if I can identify as another race. Or an animal.

To my mind it's the same as a man thinking they're a woman.

I'm not allowed to tell a transwoman that they're not a woman because they have a cock and balls and don't have ovaries or a vagina, but Im sure as a white man if I started telling people I identify as a black man....

hetuzozaho

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

They didn't do anything wrong. Why do you think they did? It's a World Cup. Did Germany do anything wrong when they beat Saudi Arabia 9-0 back in 2002, or Germany beating Brazil 7-1 at Brazils home World Cup.

Lad, with respect, I don't think you've a clue about sports.

To be fair Germany did ease off in the second half.

"We just made it clear that we had to stay focused and not try to humiliate them. We said we had to stay serious and concentrate at half-time. That's something you don't have to show on the pitch if you are playing. You have to show the opponent respect and it was very important that we did this and didn't try to show some magic or something like this. It was important we played our game for 90 minutes." - Hummels

gmisk

Rodin wrote: »

I wonder if I can identify as another race. Or an animal.

To my mind it's the same as a man thinking they're a woman.

I'm not allowed to tell a transwoman that they're not a woman because they have a cock and balls and don't have ovaries or a vagina, but Im sure as a white man if I started telling people I identify as a black man....

Or you could you know keep your opinions to yourself...always an option.
If you don't have anything nice to say maybe don't say anything at all?

I think the animal comparison is incredibly disrespectful but hey.

Do you actually know any trans people in real life? There just people...maybe show them a bit of human decency and kindness

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Would this be a good time for you to meet my partner, Bobby Hill?



Both of them are fictional characters, btw - unlike the charming Mr Crowder.

I'll bite.

I actually find myself agreeing with Steven Crowder quite a bit. I don't agree with everything he says, but it is refreshing to listen to him, especially in his "change my mind" segments where he encourages alternative opinions to his own. You don't often see that.

I'm not blinkered enough to imagine that the responses shown aren't cherry picked, but I do appreciate long form interviews that are unedited.

I do find him more honest and open for debate than many left wing political commentators in this day and age.

I used to love John Stewart who would be akin to Steven Crowder albeit on the opposite side. Anyone willing to speak to polar opposite opinions without purposefully misrepresenting or exlusively orchestrating a hit piece is a good representative of a differing opinion.

To a lesser extent Bill Maher is close to it, although he is exceptionally agenda driven and blinkered to an extent where he smothers conversation rather than let it happen.

Very much like this thread.

AndrewJRenko

Just in case you've forgotten :

1) Renko wasn't racist
2) Renko is fictional.

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Just in case you've forgotten :

1) Renko wasn't racist
2) Renko is fictional.

Trans women arent biologically women.
The idea they are is fictional.

gmisk

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Mine’s taken from a Breaking Bad quote. :pac:

Ha no way.
I thought it was a piss take of that rapper ODB!

gmisk

gmisk wrote: »

Ha no way.
I thought it was a piss take of that rapper ODB!

I honestly thought the same. Mind blown

hetuzozaho

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not blinkered enough to imagine that the responses shown aren't cherry picked, but I do appreciate long form interviews that are unedited.

I guess he doesn't need to edit the cherry picked ones.

IMO, he's terrible

hetuzozaho

hetuzozaho wrote: »

I guess he doesn't need to edit the cherry picked ones.

IMO, he's terrible

I can see why people don't like him.

I find him entertaining. I wouldn't go to him as a source of news or education but I would treat him like a right wing John Stewart or bill maher is all I'm saying.

It's just very biased entertainment but at least, like the two from the other side, he allows debate which is refreshing

2u2me

Sittingpretty wrote: »

The strength differential between male and female in most species is HUGE.

The US women's national soccer team are truly the best women's team ever seen. If self-ID and transitioning arer allowed into the sport the arena for biological women to showcase their talent would end immediately.

The USWNT(the same one that beat Thailand 13:0) lost 2:5 vs Dallas FC's u15 boys team.

John McEnroe made the same argument in tennis that Serena Williams(the greatest female tennis player that ever lived) would lose to the world's #700 in tennis. Apparently this has become controversial.

2u2me

2u2me wrote: »

The US women's national soccer team are truly the best women's team ever seen. If self-ID and transitioning arer allowed into the sport the arena for biological women to showcase their talent would end immediately.

The USWNT(the same one that beat Thailand 13:0) lost 2:5 vs Dallas FC's u15 boys team.

John McEnroe made the same argument in tennis that Serena Williams(the greatest female tennis player that ever lived) would lose to the world's #700 in tennis. Apparently this has become controversial.

In fairness though, with regard to the women's team losing against the boys, the women identified as winners so unless you can define a table, the women didn't necessarily lose.

hetuzozaho

Deleted User wrote: »

he allows debate which is refreshing

IMO he tricks people into thinking he does. Anyway prob off topic

2u2me

hetuzozaho wrote: »

I guess he doesn't need to edit the cherry picked ones.

IMO, he's terrible

He's as terrible as Colbert, Oliver, Bee, etc...

I enjoy his 'change my mind' segments I remember this one in particular where a guy Yusuf pretty much destroys crowder in "Socialism is evil, change my mind" (7mins25seconds start very good watch).

To Crowder's credit he leaves everything up and many of his audience admonished him for this incident. (check the comments on that video).

It seems his fans aren't just blindly accepting everything he says. They just enjoy debate.

hetuzozaho

hetuzozaho wrote: »

IMO he tricks people into thinking he does. Anyway prob off topic

If you can be tricked by listening to someone else's opinion, you probably hadn't a strong enough opinion in the first place.

You could say that about anyone who parrots John Oliver affer watching his episodes or anyone who listens to James Corden (of all people!!) or any late night host when they do a very left leaning monologue invariably about trump or white privilege

Giving a convincing, albeit biased, account of your opinion is not a trick.

hetuzozaho

2u2me wrote: »

He's as terrible as Colbert, Oliver, Bee, etc...

I enjoy his 'change my mind' segments I remember this one in particular where a guy Yusuf pretty much destroys crowder in "Socialism is evil, change my mind" (7mins25seconds start very good watch).

.

I've never really watched the others you mention.

Ugh I think change my mind is worst segment ha.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

gmisk wrote: »

Ha no way.
I thought it was a piss take of that rapper ODB!

Deleted User wrote: »

I honestly thought the same. Mind blown

Remember when Skylar goes daft at Walt (actually, that doesn’t really narrow it down much) and yells at him

“Okay, don't talk, Walt! Shut up and say something that isn't complete bull****! You want to know what you have to do? You have to tell me what's really going on right now - today. No more excuses, no more apologies, no more of these...these obvious desperate breakfasts! You don't wanna lose contact with me, Walt? Good. Then tell me. Now.”

hetuzozaho

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If you can be tricked by listening to someone else's opinion, you probably hadn't a strong enough opinion in the first place.

You could say that about anyone who parrots John Oliver affer watching his episodes or anyone who listens to James Corden (of all people!!) or any late night host when they do a very left leaning monologue invariably about trump or white privilege

Giving a convincing, albeit biased, account of your opinion is not a trick.

You've lost me. Maybe my post wasn't clear?

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Remember when Skylar goes daft at Walt (actually, that doesn’t really narrow it down much) and yells at him

“Okay, don't talk, Walt! Shut up and say something that isn't complete bull****! You want to know what you have to do? You have to tell me what's really going on right now - today. No more excuses, no more apologies, no more of these...these obvious desperate breakfasts! You don't wanna lose contact with me, Walt? Good. Then tell me. Now.”

Again...mind blown.

(As a very off topic aside, I might not always agree with everything you say on here, but you are always one of the first people I look forward to reading. Thank you)

hetuzozaho

hetuzozaho wrote: »

You've lost me. Maybe my post wasn't clear?

My apologies, I misread it. I thought you said he tricks people into thinking like he does. I see now you meant he tricks people into thinking he is open to debate (which is obviously hugely different)

I respectfully disagree. I've seen enough Crowder debates, even outside change my mind, to know that he isn't shy to let opposition speak freely. But again, I do understand why he may grate on people.

LLMMLL

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I observe that black people use the dirty n word a lot. If I identify as black, can I use the bad n word with your support?

You can use any word you choose to. Does this have any relation to any point I've made?

hetuzozaho

[Deleted User] wrote: »

My apologies, I misread it. I thought you said he tricks people into thinking like he does. I see now you meant he tricks people into thinking he is open to debate (which is obviously hugely different)

I respectfully disagree. I've seen enough Crowder debates, even outside change my mind, to know that he isn't shy to let opposition speak freely. But again, I do understand why he may grate on people.

Yep we'll agree to disagree. I too have watched lots of him and I do understand why some people like him.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Deleted User wrote: »

Again...mind blown.

(As a very off topic aside, I might not always agree with everything you say on here, but you are always one of the first people I look forward to reading. Thank you)

Thanks, that’s nice to hear! I don’t rate my contributions that highly personally but that’s what drives me really, not resting on my laurels.

LLMMLL

Gruffalox wrote: »

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/11/29/record-numbers-transgender-prisoners-transition-men-women/

They don't have self ID officially. But you will have to talk to Peter Clarke, Director of Prisons, who said people "self identifying" as trans in prison are growing in number, and he was not refering to the small number with GR Certs who are statistically measured differently. These are extra that the Minister called self identifying.

The following is a longish thing about GRC trans prisoners versus "case conference" trans prisoners (and the whole sex offender thing). You will see that GRC is not necessary in UK prison to identify as trans. So effectively in practise self ID is feasible.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-42221629

It is a bit complicated but between the two articles you can get a flavour.

According to your own links, in England and Wales:

"In England and Wales, she can only be located in a women's prison if she's had a case conference.

Case conferences are told to watch out for evidence that the offender's decision to transition is related to their sentence length or a way of gaining access to future victims.

The guidelines for managing transgender offenders were rewritten in 2016 after the government commissioned a review.

The report stated: "Any assessment of a transgender offender's risk of reoffending should be based on valid, evidenced factors that relate to that individual, as for any other offender. We have seen no evidence that being transgender is in itself linked to risk. Risk assessments must be free from assumptions or stereotyping."

So if it is the case that 1 in 10 travellers prisoners are faking being trans They are not going to be placed in women's prisons anytime soon.

LLMMLL

LLMMLL wrote: »

According to your own links, in England and Wales:

"In England and Wales, she can only be located in a women's prison if she's had a case conference.

Case conferences are told to watch out for evidence that the offender's decision to transition is related to their sentence length or a way of gaining access to future victims.

The guidelines for managing transgender offenders were rewritten in 2016 after the government commissioned a review.

The report stated: "Any assessment of a transgender offender's risk of reoffending should be based on valid, evidenced factors that relate to that individual, as for any other offender. We have seen no evidence that being transgender is in itself linked to risk. Risk assessments must be free from assumptions or stereotyping."

So if it is the case that 1 in 10 travellers prisoners are faking being trans They are not going to be placed in women's prisons anytime soon.

If I'm reading that right, you are supporting other people deciding through assessment whether or not people are genuine in their transition or self identification?

That's a bit transphobic no?

LLMMLL

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If I'm reading that right, you are supporting other people deciding through assessment whether or not people are genuine in their transition or self identification?

That's a bit transphobic no?

I support not placing sexual abusers in prison with other inmates, male or female.

2 of the 7 rapes that occurred over 8 years were committed by Karen White. The issue is not whether White's claims were genuine (she is fully transitioning). It is that there was a massive failure to assess her. The process was faulty. This does not mean there is an issue generally.

If a prison fails to vet one of their prison guards who has a record for sexual assaults, does that automatically mean that's there should be no male prison guards in female prisons? What of they fail to vet a female prison guards with sexual assaults convictions? What are the consequences you would sand then?

LLMMLL

LLMMLL wrote: »

I support not placing sexual abusers in prison with other inmates, male or female.

2 of the 7 rapes that occurred over 8 years were committed by Karen White. The issue is not whether White's claims were genuine (she is fully transitioning). It is that there was a massive failure to assess her. The process was faulty. This does not mean there is an issue generally.

If a prison fails to vet one of their prison guards who has a record for sexual assaults, does that automatically mean that's there should be no male prison guards in female prisons? What of they fail to vet a female prison guards with sexual assaults convictions? What are the consequences you would sand then?

Lovely.

But answer my question first please before I answer yours.

Do you think that people should be able to assess and decide whether or not someone is genuine if they declare that they are transitioning in case they are doing so just to gain access to future victims or their sentence length?