The National Party

ToweringPerformance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122129019#Comment_122129019

So it's just a wild guess so and you've nothing to back that up. Fair enough, carry on.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128889#Comment_122128889

That's like saying you're going to vote Green but you don't believe in climate change. It makes no sense.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122129025#Comment_122129025

Gript don't survive on their paltry subscriptions since they give away access.

But there are paid far right promote rs everywhere and I have little doubt that a few pop up here once in a while.

ToweringPerformance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122129040#Comment_122129040

You made the claim. Back it up with evidence.

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122129011#Comment_122129011

Sensible migration policies do not result in tented encampments forming in the centre of the capital city.

Sensible migration policies do not permit an influx of spurious asylum claims, more than 80% of which are known to attribute to secondary movements.

Sensible migration policies do not mean migrant workers living in tenement-like conditions sharing bedrooms with multiple people.

Sensible migration policies do not see immigration catapulted to one of the most pressing issues for the electorate in 2024.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122129043#Comment_122129043

There's plenty of evidence

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/10/proud-boys-far-right-givesendgo-christian-fundraising-site

https://gnet-research.org/2024/05/01/cash-for-incitement-the-monetisation-of-digital-hate-in-germany/

https://www.thejournal.ie/gofundme-removes-campaigns-far-right-5849162-Aug2022/

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41060489.html

https://www.thejournal.ie/far-right-money-making-5986480-Feb2023/

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122129086#Comment_122129086

most of those issues are issues of housing policy not immigration.
Its a huge scandel that this government can not find accommodation for refugees which they accepted into this country and that we have such a dearth of accommodation that the skilled workers we invited to come and make us wealthy cannot find places to live.

ToweringPerformance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122129100#Comment_122129100

None of that is evidence. The poster made a claim Gript media have taken payments from the National Party and failed to back it up. It's actually a defamatory statement.

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122129107#Comment_122129107

Incorrect on so many levels. Firstly, the majority of asylum seekers are not ‘refugees’, nor were they ‘accepted’ into this country. As McEntee herself has recently stated, up to 90% are secondary movements from the UK or elsewhere. It’s a huge scandal that these spurious economic migrants are subverting the international protection system.

Secondly, why are you conflating skills-based migration with asylum seeking? Are you unable to discriminate between the two streams? We didn’t invite skilled migrants to ‘make us wealthy’ lol. There are labour shortages in some sectors. They come to grow their careers, often for a time-bound period. I know as I hire internationally for my team. The very idea that people are coming here with the altruistic intent of making Ireland wealthy is laughable frankly.

Thirdly, the overall volume and velocity of inward migration is simply way too high. Per capita, the rate is higher than the UK. This isn’t sustainable longer term. It’s not possible to keep pace with the housing demands currently placed on this country. Who do you think is going to build all of these units? Should we send Helen McEntee and Roderick O’Gorman out on block laying and sparks apprenticeships to get us started? The current volume of immigration is exacerbating an already acute housing crisis.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128889#Comment_122128889

Is there any sign of Pepper's video on the two incidents of female politicians being threatened by far right goons? He's all about protecting women, right?

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122129086#Comment_122129086

actually they result in all of those things. The problem isn’t policy, it’s geopolitical instability out of Ireland’s control.

What new policy do you believe would help?

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122129211#Comment_122129211

You have some explaining to do here. How do sensible migration policies result in those outcomes?

Beechwoodspark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122129207#Comment_122129207

You seem to think I have some “inside track” with Gav Pepper or can get him to post on specific topics???

I have no connection to him, I just looked at some of his Twitter posts.

Ask him what he is doing or not doing?

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122129158#Comment_122129158

Misreading what I said - most of the migrants are refugees and the majority of the rest are on work visas and will either go home or seek citizenship. No one is under the illusion that those on work visas do it for their own benefit - but that doesn't means that the country doesn't benefit massively from the economic growth that the skilled work visa scheme brings in and the tax revenues that they generate.

Thats we accept refugees with no plan as how to deal with them is a scandel - not the fact that we accepted refugees from Ukraine.

The real scandel in this country is that the government has sat on its hands for over a decade without doing anything meaningful about a predictable growing housing crisis. For that they need to be justifiably punished - not for meeting their international obligations to accept refugees.

Hamachi

1. Most migrants are categorically not ‘refugees’. The majority are EU/EEA/UK nationals, skilled migrants, students, and asylum seekers, none of whom are ‘refugees’.

2. As for those on work visas, of course they do it for their own benefit, despite the fact that the semantics of your statement above, convey otherwise. Can you quantify the net benefits to Ireland. You’ve asserted that Ireland benefits ‘massively’. Please quantify those benefits, segmented by the various regions of origins of the migrants.

3. There is a plan for dealing with refugees from Ukraine. They’re all housed to the best of my knowledge. Do you have information to the contrary? I don’t believe the encampment along the grand canal is populated by Ukrainians. Perhaps you have more information?

4. How do you expect a government to formulate a housing policy when there is very little predictability around inward migration, which admittedly is partially due to their own disastrous migration policy? Should they just target 70K units per years and hope that it’s enough? Again, I reiterate my question to you, who will build these units? Yes, housing policy is a ‘scandal’, but the severity of the issue is compounded by unfettered immigration across multiple streams.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122129226#Comment_122129226

Do you think it's strange at all, that he's only motivated to produce a 'we're so concerned' video when the alleged attacker is brown or black, and not when the attackers are Irish far-right goons?

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122129086#Comment_122129086

And how do we ascertain that they are spurious asylum claims? I'm judging by this that you have no issue with those claims you feel are not spurious?

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122129217#Comment_122129217

It’s pretty simple. I believe the current immigration policies in Ireland are sensible. We have a duty of care towards asylum seekers and refugees. There have been some unfortunate results of the way the policies are implemented.

Now, what policy do you propose to change the situation? What would you do differently?

My position is that it’s not a policy issue. You believe it is. The onus is on you to propose something different, otherwise you’re just criticising.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122129283#Comment_122129283

you’re great about pointing it symptoms without offering anything constructive in response. It’s almost impressive.

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122129396#Comment_122129396

Correction. We have a duty of care to process asylum claims and to adjudicate if the claim is legitimate or otherwise.

Where I differ from you is in the execution of those policies.

1. Massively accelerated decision making and appeals process. Both are completed within 12 weeks maximum. None of this floundering in the system for years and claiming ‘ties’ to Ireland.
2. Those whose claims are found not to have merit are removed. If that requires physical deportation, so be it. Otherwise, access to all state services and supports are immediately suspended, thereby strongly encouraging self-deportation.
3. Onerous financial penalties on employers found to have non-approved or failed asylum seekers on their payroll.
4. Coordinated EU response to process applications outside EU territory. The migration pact may help deliver on this goal.
5. More stringent controls on other migration streams, particularly the language school mills, that are bringing unfortunates into this country to work in appalling conditions and to live in tenement-like hovels.

There’s a few to get started with, aggregating both policy change and solid execution.

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122129402#Comment_122129402

Thank you. I can assure you that there has been nothing impressive about your contribution hitherto.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128427#Comment_122128427

My apologies if I misunderstood you, CT. In my defence, we are in a thread on the National Party.

If you wouldn't vote for the National Party, can you identify a party that you would vote for?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122129283#Comment_122129283

If most migrants are not refugees, then what's the problem? They're allowed to be here and they're not in encampments.

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122129501#Comment_122129501

Princess, I think you need to learn to differentiate immigration vs. emigration. I’m not sure there’s value in engaging with somebody who is (i) confused by those concepts and (ii) starts leaping to the ‘far-right’ every time immigration is discussed.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122129515#Comment_122129515

Ha! Nice try, but I've been around a bit too long to not notice an ad homeinem when I see one.

1 - You said "migrants". Not immigration, not emigration; "migrants". Very first sentence. "Most migrants are categorically not refugees" - exact quote.

And considering the bulk of you argument is based in immigration into Ireland, it's pretty obvious that's what you mean.

2 - I never said "far-right", either.

****

So let's try again. This time with references to the post I mentioned in your answer.

You said - Most migrants are categorically not ‘refugees’. The majority are EU/EEA/UK nationals, skilled migrants, students, and asylum seekers, none of whom are ‘refugees’.

And the question is: if most migrants are not refugees, then what's the problem? They're allowed to be here and they're not in encampments.

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122129860#Comment_122129860

Despite your attempted ninja edit, you very much did start with the premise of ‘far-right’.

That’s ok Princess. We all tell little white lies occasionally. The key is not to keep digging after you’ve been sprung 😉.

Have a good one!

concerned_tenant

Alarming that it even needs to be said, but it's possible to believe in controlling borders and oppose far-right fascism at the same time.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122130087#Comment_122130087

Ah, so it's ninja edits now, is it?

As you know, the post never mentioned "far-right" and even if I had edited it after you replied, my original UNedited post would still be quoted in your post.

What was it you were saying about telling lies…?

Seeing as you can't answer a simple question about migration thus proving your viewpoints to be poorly researched and you obviously don't know what you're talking and can't debate it so you rely on personal attacks, we're done here.

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122130236#Comment_122130236

Your unedited post is there for readers to peruse Princess. I quote you verbatim:

‘What are the ideas from the far-right to bring emigration under control’. Your words Princess. At least have the decency to own them.

Like I said, I’ve no interest in ‘debating’ with somebody who immediately conflates discussion around immigration with the far-right.

We are done now.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122129451#Comment_122129451

that hurts. I thought we were making friends