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The National Party

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    #3452
    concerned_tenant
    Registered Users Posts: 713 ✭✭✭concerned_tenant


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122124911#Comment_122124911

    There is not one person from any of these parties that I would see as having a good handle on the problems you raise. The raise the issues - sure - but they don't offer ideas or policies as to how to solve the problems.

    I agree.

    But that isn't the reason why I would vote for them.

    I would vote for those candidates as a vehicle to send a message to established parties. And I would continue doing it, over and over again, until the established parties started listening to voter concerns.

    Because to not vote for those candidates means there is nobody left to vote for in this matter. That means nothing changes, and that's not a good outcome.

    Those who are deep will strive for clarity, while those who wish to appear deep strive for obscurity and seek to muddy their waters, for everything seems deep to ‘the many’ if only they can’t see the bottom - and they hate going into the water themselves.

    — Friedrich Nietzsche



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    #3453
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,195 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    This is a really bad reason for voting for Nazis. Just saying.

    Do not confused what you "want to say" with your vote with what you actually do with your vote. Your vote is about who you seek to give political authority to.



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    #3454
    concerned_tenant
    Registered Users Posts: 713 ✭✭✭concerned_tenant


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128408#Comment_122128408

    Nowhere did I say I would vote for a Nazi or a fascist or a Hitlerite or any related term.

    For what it's worth, I wouldn't vote for the National Party for that very reason. They raise concerns about migration on purely racial, ethnic grounds. But that's not my reason for wanting to control migration, so they simply do not get my vote.

    I was specific in that I said I would vote for a candidate willing to raise concerns about migration — on my grounds, not racial or ethnic grounds.

    Your argument speaks volumes in that you believe anyone willing to raise concerns about migration is a de facto "Nazi"; a self-evidently ridiculous statement.

    Those who are deep will strive for clarity, while those who wish to appear deep strive for obscurity and seek to muddy their waters, for everything seems deep to ‘the many’ if only they can’t see the bottom - and they hate going into the water themselves.

    — Friedrich Nietzsche



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    #3455
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,010 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122120191#Comment_122120191

    So the f what? You are shilling for an extremist bigoted hatemonger and liar.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #3456
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,010 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122120680#Comment_122120680

    We know it's a regular occurrence that extremist hatemongers like Pepper make these things up

    https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/gardai-arrest-woman-suspicion-making-29469666

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #3457
    eightieschewbaccy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,255 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128344#Comment_122128344

    Ya, she definitely does not deserve to be harassed on the street by a guy with a known history of violence. Same guy harasses library and creche staff, do they deserve it too?



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    #3458
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,769 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128478#Comment_122128478

    The pretence of sending a message to the two main parties isn't remotely convincing. They know what they're voting for.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #3459
    eightieschewbaccy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,255 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128488#Comment_122128488

    The thing is, there's not a single far right party that isn't incredibly racist and mired in scandal. The posters claiming the protest vote simply aren't willing to out themselves fully.



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    #3460
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,769 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128490#Comment_122128490

    Yeah. This is also why they keep rebranding. They either fall out amongst themselves and split or they say the quite part out loud too often.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #3461
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,172 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128379#Comment_122128379

    The problems with that us that 1) it gives encouragement to the far-right; 2) it indicates that their policies are popular even if the parties aren't and you'll get other parties taking on watered-down versions of them next time round.

    If you want to use your vote in that way, your best bet would be to spoil it. (And before someone comes in here and says "your vote shouldn't be abused" or "people died so you could vote" - true, but you have the right to NOT vote as much as you have the right to vote and a protest vote is still an endorsement to whoever you vote for.)

    Failing that, vote for an independent.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #3462
    Shoog
    Registered Users Posts: 4,503 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Some people are promoting these parties because the pay is good.



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    #3463
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,769 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The other holes in the justification for supporting them presenting here are competence and politics. If your party campaigns primarily on immigration, it has to be both competent and willing enough to actually get something done. For context, the UK's asylum backlog is just shy of 150,000. The Rwanda plan is a scam to send 300 people there at a cost of £150,000 per person. The government has also presided over the highest level of immigration ever seen by the UK.

    So yeah, if you think trash like Dwyer, Blighe and Barrett have the skill to pull something off, I don't really know what to say to you.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #3464
    concerned_tenant
    Registered Users Posts: 713 ✭✭✭concerned_tenant


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128565#Comment_122128565

    You've got it exactly the wrong way around.

    The far-right have been emboldened precisely because voter concerns have gone ignored.

    If voters feel that their legitimate concerns are being ignored, they will go to extreme lengths to have their voices heard.

    Not because they are literally fascistic, but because they feel they have no other avenue to get their concerns across.

    Those who are deep will strive for clarity, while those who wish to appear deep strive for obscurity and seek to muddy their waters, for everything seems deep to ‘the many’ if only they can’t see the bottom - and they hate going into the water themselves.

    — Friedrich Nietzsche



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    #3465
    Hamachi
    Registered Users Posts: 2,486 ✭✭✭Hamachi


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128478#Comment_122128478

    No. But Kitty does deserve to have her views challenged. If she types like a lioness, she needs to put on her big girl panties and have the intellectual courage to stand over her egregious opinions.

    As for the rest of your post, you’ve parroted that several times. Frankly, I’m deeply disinterested in what Dwyer does or doesn’t do. He’s a non-entity and isn’t going to have any influence either way. On the other hand, extremists like Holland do have a legitimate platform and need to be challenged time and time again, albeit not whilst walking down the street obviously!



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    #3466
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,172 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128720#Comment_122128720

    None of this challenges my post.

    I mean, I agree with what you're saying IS happening - what I'm saying is that it's the wrong way to do it. Far-right policies getting votes is more likely to get mainstream parties adopting similar policies to attract said vote.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #3467
    eightieschewbaccy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,255 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128742#Comment_122128742

    You can view her as an extremist but she's really not. Not liking her views doesn't automatically make her an extremist.



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    #3468
    Shoog
    Registered Users Posts: 4,503 ✭✭✭Shoog


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128720#Comment_122128720

    There are two components to the "immigration crisis"

    1. - refugees from Ukraine which no one could have anticipated or planned for and which would be deeply counterproductive to refuse to deal with.

    2- immigration of skilled workers to fill positions which otherwise would go unfilled. To refuse to take skilled workers would cripple the very basis of the Irish economy and leave us all poorer.

    The issue of illegal immigration and other assillum seekers is minor and relatively insignificant to those other two factors.

    The far right is opportunistically lumping all categories of assillum seekers into one big pot because it doesn't serve their agender to apply nuance to a complex set of issues.



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    #3469
    Hamachi
    Registered Users Posts: 2,486 ✭✭✭Hamachi


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128756#Comment_122128756

    I disagree. She is very extreme. Now that doesn’t excuse street harassment but she is way out there in her views, which need to be challenged robustly. Her and Dwyer encountering each other is two extreme ends of the spectrum colliding in person.



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    #3470
    The Nal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,598 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128720#Comment_122128720

    The only concern at the moment seems to be immigration. There isn't one other policy or political issue being addressed and none of these parties are even trying to run on any other issue.

    The correlation between heavy Twitter users and the supporters of these thicko parties is massive. As is the correlation between lonely angry men and the supporters of these thicko parties.

    Immigration is a nice easy one to pitch to thickos. But once you start talking economics, environment, energy, health, transport, education etc you'll find 99% with blank faces.

    No depth of knowledge and no willingness to do so.

    Like someone who can play twinkle twinkle little star on the piano and calls themselves a musician.



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    #3471
    gmisk
    Registered Users Posts: 32,278 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122124953#Comment_122124953

    Christ more absolute numpties. Who are you going to espouse the virtues of next? Mike Connell?



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    #3472
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users Posts: 16,116 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128786#Comment_122128786

    Or Graham "let's exterminate the Jews" Carey. Not a bad sort if you park the genoicidal anti-semitism….



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    #3473
    The Nal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,598 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122124953#Comment_122124953

    Amazing to me that you just let yourself be dragged to wherever Twitter brings you for political opinion.

    And you're being dragged to the bottom of the barrel there if you think any of those clowns are sensible about anything. Unemployed middle aged men whos life went to **** during covid and havent escaped the rabbit hole.



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    #3474
    Hamachi
    Registered Users Posts: 2,486 ✭✭✭Hamachi


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128781#Comment_122128781

    You make a lot of good points. Unfortunately, what invalidates your argument is the assumed correlation in your post.

    Now I don’t use Twitter, nor will I be voting for far right candidates in the GE. However, I’ll be very transparent in saying that I’m very concerned about the levels of inward migration to Ireland and wish to see it significantly curtailed.

    Am I a lonely, angry thicko? Well actually, I’m not. I’m happily married, have three beautiful children, plenty of friends, and a great career. I know quite a few colleagues and friends who share my concerns about immigration. They won’t vote for the national party, but they do feel unheard by the political class. This sentiment is growing in Ireland and politicians who ignore it, do so at their peril.



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    #3475
    Beechwoodspark
    Registered Users Posts: 15,400 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128427#Comment_122128427

    This post says it better than I could. I don’t have ethnic/racial reasons for wanting sensible migration policies - I have societal/economic/cultural reasons.

    Also, I have to vote strategically, giving our PR system.

    Hence I am considering where my vote will go.



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    #3476
    suvigirl
    Registered Users Posts: 6,808 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128889#Comment_122128889

    And you believe in the National party's stance on immigration?



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    #3477
    eightieschewbaccy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,255 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128889#Comment_122128889

    But you've linked to numerous racist accounts. You've even labeled them as decent people, only the other day you perpetuated a hoax about a kidnapping. On top of that, you're actively considering voting for a party that is modeled on the leader's love of the Nazis.... So you're not simply concerned about immigration if this is how you're behaving in the thread.



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    #3478
    The Nal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,598 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128844#Comment_122128844

    Yes I agree. I did say its a massive correlation, not total.

    Ive had concerns about immigration since the 90s. And when we have people sleeping in tents on city streets there clearly needs to be a change made.

    But the people Im referring to are the lads who hop on trains with a bag o'cans to any old "protest", have links in their twitter bios asking for donations, aim fireworks at Garda etc. Like the crowd who were singing Ole Ole at the protest last week. No real interest apart from a day out masked behind a policital rally.

    Then back to Twitter to "win" vs the woke leftie commies et al.



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    #3479
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,000 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128889#Comment_122128889

    so what policies do you want to see implemented?

    We currently have “sensible migration” policies. What would you like changed?

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #3480
    ToweringPerformance
    Registered Users Posts: 688 ✭✭✭ToweringPerformance


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128611#Comment_122128611

    What people? Any chance of a link or at the very least something to back up that statement.

    Harrison Butker is correct



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    #3481
    Shoog
    Registered Users Posts: 4,503 ✭✭✭Shoog


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122129016#Comment_122129016

    Just consider Gript.



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