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The National Party enter the mainstream

  • 26-06-2020 4:36am
    #1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 315 ✭✭ coinop


    Let's have a thread about Ireland rather than America for a change. Founded in November 2016, the National Party was founded by Justin Barrett and his old friend James Reynolds. The two men had been involved in pro-life activism as teenagers and Barrett got a taste of the media spotlight during his No campaign to the Nice Treaty referendum in the early 2000s.

    The National Party revolves around 9 core principles which makes it unique among Irish political parties in that it is ideologically based rather than following the populist trend of the day. The main points of NP ideology are: support for a 32 county Ireland, against mass immigration and against abortion.

    The NP tested the waters by running candidates in the 2020 general election but none of their candidates were elected with only a few hundred votes each. The party blamed the media's determination to ignore them for their poor performance with most voters claiming to have never heard of the NP. Newspapers had incorrectly listed NP candidates as Independents if they even listed them at all. It seemed like there was a concerted effort by the mainstream media to pretend the NP did not exist and hope that they would fade away.

    That all changed last night with RTE's hatchet job on Justin Barrett and the Nationalist movement in Ireland. RTE have realised that the NP are not going away so have decided they must take Barrett down. The public discovered the NP after the last general election and now the cat is out of the bag. They will build upon their name recognition for a more successful election run next time around. How do the esteemed posters of Boards feel about the NP?

    "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.”


«13456759

Comments

  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 7,142 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Gloomtastic!


    Why don’t you try looking forward as opposed to backwards? It’s much more interesting!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,899 ✭✭✭ ronivek


    Or maybe the media tend to focus on things which are in the national interest and /or will generate traffic; as opposed to some tiny political party whose views run contrary to national opinion as evidenced by a number of recent referendums.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,423 ✭✭✭ Berties_Horse


    Justin Barrett discredits himself every time he opens his mouth. Therefore I am in favour of the National Party entering the mainstream, the ridicule will only do lasting damage to their reputation.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 315 ✭✭ coinop


    ronivek wrote: »
    Or maybe the media tend to focus on things which are in the national interest and /or will generate traffic; as opposed to some tiny political party whose views run contrary to national opinion as evidenced by a number of recent referendums.

    Is it not in the interest of democracy to have alternatives? FF/FG/SF/Labour/Greens are all singing from the same hymn sheet. They're all pro-EU, pro-gay marriage, pro-abortion, pro-mass immigration. Choice is an illusion in Irish politics. For years voters have complained that "they're all the same" which is true, but now we have more complainers whinging that we have a choice. There has traditionally been no ideological basis in Irish politics due to the two main parties having their roots in the Civil War divide over the issue of partition. The National Party are here to change that.

    Some food for thought:

    Not enough migrants arriving to keep pay down central bank

    Irish could be minority ethnic group here by 2050 professor


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 315 ✭✭ coinop


    Justin Barrett discredits himself every time he opens his mouth. Therefore I am in favour of the National Party entering the mainstream, the ridicule will only do lasting damage to their reputation.

    So you're issue lies with your dislike of Barrett rather than National Party policy? Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. I personally think Barrett is a fantastic speaker. I've linked the following video from the 3:50 timestamp mark. If this doesn't inspire you, you're ignorant of Irish history.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnmDL65M_bU&t=3m50s


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,423 ✭✭✭ Berties_Horse


    coinop wrote: »

    "Unpublished UK-based research, which he does not identify, has indicated that by 2050..."

    I stopped reading there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,899 ✭✭✭ ronivek


    coinop wrote: »
    Is it not in the interest of democracy to have alternatives? FF/FG/SF/Labour/Greens are all singing from the same hymn sheet. They're all pro-EU, pro-gay marriage, pro-abortion, pro-mass immigration. Choice is an illusion in Irish politics.

    People had a choice; and they chose to give your darling party between 0.49% and 1.74% of first preference votes in the General Election.
    coinop wrote: »
    For years voters have complained that "they're all the same" which is true, but now we have more complainers whinging that we have a choice. There has traditionally been no ideological basis in Irish politics due to the two main parties having their roots in the Civil War divide over the issue of partition. The National Party are here to change that.

    You literally just said there is no choice in Irish politics; now you're claiming some imaginary complainers are whinging that we do have a choice? Make up your mind.

    Also in case you had missed the actual results of the election; we now have 3 major parties. Although I will grant you that FF/FG are virtually identical these days.
    coinop wrote: »

    Given the whole Covid-19 thing (you know, the thing which is likely going to kick us into severe recession this year and has already been responsible for significant increases in unemployment) I'm not sure this article is really relevant anymore.

    Although in saying all that; I'm not sure what exactly in this article is supposed to be related to the National Party.
    coinop wrote: »

    Pulling out an article from 2005; nice. The guy's speech was essentially "in order to sustain and promote economic growth in the future; Ireland will need a significant increase in the size of the population which will be only achievable via immigration". I take it your objection to the article is simply the thought that people with 100% White Catholic Irish ethnicity could be in a minority at some distant point in the future? How ghastly.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 315 ✭✭ coinop


    "Unpublished UK-based research, which he does not identify, has indicated that by 2050..."

    I stopped reading there.

    Politicians love guys like you. Men who refuse to read to inform themselves, just repeat the mantra "immigration is good" despite the fact that they are not the ones who benefit from it. The politicians, of which one in four are landlords, love to see more immigrants (i.e. economic units) enter the country. House prices go up while the cost of labour is kept low. Please tell me how the average man on the street benefits from this? Even the most ardent far-left communist can agree that immigration hurts the working class joe.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,335 ✭✭✭ tigger123


    coinop wrote: »
    Is it not in the interest of democracy to have alternatives? FF/FG/SF/Labour/Greens are all singing from the same hymn sheet. They're all pro-EU, pro-gay marriage, pro-abortion, pro-mass immigration. Choice is an illusion in Irish politics. For years voters have complained that "they're all the same" which is true, but now we have more complainers whinging that we have a choice. There has traditionally been no ideological basis in Irish politics due to the two main parties having their roots in the Civil War divide over the issue of partition. The National Party are here to change that.

    Some food for thought:

    Not enough migrants arriving to keep pay down central bank

    Irish could be minority ethnic group here by 2050 professor

    The proof of the pudding is in the eating OP. It's up to the National Party to put their ideas out there and have people decide for themselves at the ballot box whether or not they support them. It's incumbent on them to make their argument.

    In the internet age, there is no excuse for not being able to engage voters; there are no gatekeepers to the public as there was in the days when traditional media (newspapers, tv and radio) could influence whether or not someone's message was heard.

    So far, the National Party have been told to get f*cked by the Irish electorate. The message is loud and clear.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,722 ✭✭✭ Chinese whospers


    Does NP stand for Nothing Party?

    I’m in love with him and I feel fine.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 26,407 ✭✭✭✭ Eric Cartman


    The national party would do better if they dropped barret and the ‘no to abortion’ shtick.

    Theres space for a party in the ‘against mass immigration’ space and some of their other principals , but adding in the anti abortion part sours it.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 315 ✭✭ coinop


    tigger123 wrote: »
    The proof of the pudding is in the eating OP. It's up to the National Party to put their ideas out there and have people decide for themselves at the ballot box whether or not they support them. It's incumbent on them to make their argument.

    In the internet age, there is no excuse for not being able to engage voters; there are no gatekeepers to the public as there was in the days when traditional media (newspapers, tv and radio) could influence whether or not someone's message was heard.

    I agree. The National Party is quite active online on Twitter and Youtube but their message will not reach elderly people who do not browse the web. This is why the NP have a younger base than the traditional parties. To reach the elderly, the NP will need to strive for more coverage on RTE and the newspapers. As I explained earlier, up until now the mainstream media has decided to starve the party of publicity but last night's hit-piece on Prime Time has marked a turning point. They have acknowledged the NP exists and the wider public is now aware of them.

    By the way, the National Party members are subject to an extraordinary level of harassment anytime they try to spread their message on the street that the other parties don't have to contend with. See the video below where a former PBP activist is encourage others to confront Justin Barrett in public (Barrett was subsequently assaulted). I'm waiting for posters on here to condone the violence. PS: the guy stalking Barrett was expelled from PBP for assaulting his girlfriend. Nice guy.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4P8lblXt0Is
    The national party would do better if they dropped barret and the ‘no to abortion’ shtick.

    Theres space for a party in the ‘against mass immigration’ space and some of their other principals , but adding in the anti abortion part sours it.

    I wasn't aware you had to agree 100% with every policy to vote for a party. Election day must be a nightmare for you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,423 ✭✭✭ Berties_Horse


    coinop wrote: »
    Politicians love guys like you. Men who refuse to read to inform themselves, just repeat the mantra "immigration is good" despite the fact that they are not the ones who benefit from it.

    Bravo. Attempting to twist something I never said. Slow hand clap for you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,546 ✭✭✭ Blaaz_


    They are way to.close to the british rethoric for me to ever want anything to do with em


    Barett is a poor mans nick griffin


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 315 ✭✭ coinop


    Blaaz_ wrote: »
    They are way to.close to the british rethoric for me to ever want anything to do with em

    Barett is a poor mans nick griffin

    That's a new one. A staunch Irish Nationalist being likened to Nick Griffin. Would you mind elaborating with examples? I suggest watching the short video posted in post 6 above. (assuming you've progressed beyond Junior Cert Irish history and are familiar with Irish patriots of the past).


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,335 ✭✭✭ tigger123


    coinop wrote: »
    I agree. The National Party is quite active online on Twitter and Youtube but their message will not reach elderly people who do not browse the web. This is why the NP have a younger base than the traditional parties. To reach the elderly, the NP will need to strive for more coverage on RTE and the newspapers. As I explained earlier, up until now the mainstream media has decided to starve the party of publicity but last night's hit-piece on Prime Time has marked a turning point. They have acknowledged the NP exists and the wider public is now aware of them.

    By the way, the National Party members are subject to an extraordinary level of harassment anytime they try to spread their message on the street that the other parties don't have to contend with. See the video below where a former PBP activist is encourage others to confront Justin Barrett in public (Barrett was subsequently assaulted). I'm waiting for posters on here to condone the violence. PS: the guy stalking Barrett was expelled from PBP for assaulting his girlfriend. Nice guy.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4P8lblXt0Is



    I wasn't aware you had to agree 100% with every policy to vote for a party. Election day must be a nightmare for you.

    So you agree that the NP are able to get their message out to voters, but just not elderly voters.

    The Irish electorate is very capable of getting behind grassroots activism. In the last number of years there have been ground up campaigns on gay marriage, repealing the 8th amendment, and the water charges.

    So, the National Party have the means to get their message across (through the Internet and Social Media) and an audience that is more than happy to receive a message through these means.

    The fact that the National Party are not being voted for is down to the National Party and their message; the Irish electorate aren't interested.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,546 ✭✭✭ Blaaz_


    coinop wrote: »
    That's a new one. A staunch Irish Nationalist being likened to Nick Griffin. Would you mind elaborating with examples? I suggest watching the short video posted in post 6 above. (assuming you've progressed beyond Junior Cert Irish history and are familiar with Irish patriots of the past).

    Mate,he was on prime time last night,i seen enough of him....its not that his policies are competly wrong as such

    ,just i wont vote for and will oppose anything i view as british rethoric,those people offer nothing to the world,and why irish people want to ape them is beyond me

    He is just a small angry version of john burton to my eyes :pac:


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 315 ✭✭ coinop


    tigger123 wrote: »
    So you agree that the NP are able to get their message out to voters, but just not elderly voters.

    The Irish electorate is very capable of getting behind grassroots activism. In the last number of years there have been ground up campaigns on gay marriage, repealing the 8th amendment, and the water charges.

    So, the National Party have the means to get their message across (through the Internet and Social Media) and an audience that is more than happy to receive a message through these means.

    The fact that the National Party are not being voted for is down to the National Party and their message; the Irish electorate aren't interested.

    Promoting a party online will only get you so far. Most National Party Youtube videos will garner a couple of thousand views at most. This is why I maintain that the majority of the electorate have not heard of them. It's extremely difficult to win against the mainstream media machine when they are giving you the cold shoulder. It's not a fair fight. SF voters will be able to empathise with this. On top of this I have already explained the threat of violence that hangs over NP activists promoting the party on the streets. So with this in mind my two questions to you are:

    1. Do you understand why the average joe hasn't heard of the party?
    2. Is it right that political activists should be subject to violence attacks for their beliefs?
    Blaaz_ wrote: »
    Mate,he was on prime time last night,i seen enough of him....its not that his policies are competly wrong as such

    ,just i wont vote for and will oppose anything i view as british rethoric,those people offer nothing to the world,and why irish people want to ape them is beyond me

    He is just a small angry version of john burton to my eyes :pac:

    You keep repeating the British rhetoric line but fail to give examples. Cowardly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,335 ✭✭✭ tigger123


    coinop wrote: »
    Promoting a party online will only get you so far. Most National Party Youtube videos will garner a couple of thousand views at most.

    People will watch anything on YouTube, they really will. Cats playing the piano will get millions of views. It is the perfect platform for getting political idealogies out into the public domain.
    coinop wrote: »
    This is why I maintain that the majority of the electorate have not heard of them. It's extremely difficult to win against the mainstream media machine when they are giving you the cold shoulder. It's not a fair fight. SF voters will be able to empathise with this.

    It's not a great comparison really. Sinn Fein seem to be doing alright for themselves. I'd be very surprised if they're not in Government next time round. They have a message that people support at the ballot box.
    coinop wrote: »
    On top of this I have already explained the threat of violence that hangs over NP activists promoting the party on the streets. So with this in mind my two questions to you are:

    1. Do you understand why the average joe hasn't heard of the party?
    2. Is it right that political activists should be subject to violence attacks for their beliefs?

    1. Yes, I do. It's because they don't have any popular support.
    2. No, its never ok to use violence to advance a political ideology.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,407 ✭✭✭✭ Eric Cartman


    coinop wrote: »

    I wasn't aware you had to agree 100% with every policy to vote for a party. Election day must be a nightmare for you.

    You dont, but that particular issue turns off a load of voters, even FF decided to become pro choice, much to the anger of a lot of their supporters.

    The market for ‘pro life’ parties os dead in ireland, it hurts big parties, it will kill small ones. Most voters get creepy vibes about the iona institute or the catholic church pulling the strings when they see a pro life party and want nothing to do with it.
    If they dropped that issue completely out, replaced it with more tax cuts , they would garner a lot more support.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 315 ✭✭ coinop


    Blaaz_ wrote: »
    Im under no obligation to provide examples,but to me his rethoric is british and offers nothing to country (nor world)

    I wouldnt vote for sammy wilson,nor would i vote for barett,now your clearly a fangirl,and thats ok too.....but why do you want more british influence here,they arent fit to rule themselves??

    Um, ok? Not sure why you're on a discussion forum. Safe to disregard your opinion then.
    tigger123 wrote: »
    It's not a great comparison really. Sinn Fein seem to be doing alright for themselves. I'd be very surprised if they're not in Government next time round. They have a message that people support at the ballot box.

    I'm not sure you understood my point. SF were subject to state censorship for many years. The party was only allowed to flourish after the censorship was lifted. You can read more about Section 31 here. I predict the same for the NP. Put their ideas out there and let the people support or reject them on their own merit.

    Regarding the final part of your post:

    My Question: Do you understand why the average joe hasn't heard of the party?
    Your answer: Yes, I do. It's because they don't have any popular support.

    This makes no sense. Again, you don't understand. How can the people decide if they support them or not in the first place if they haven't heard of them?


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,363 ✭✭✭✭ pjohnson


    I thought they had somehow convinced an Independent TD to join them or something. Still just clattering along with soundbites and conspiracy. O'Doherty and Waters in Political Party form alongside the Freedom Party aiming for a market that simply doesn't exist in Ireland.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,323 ✭✭✭✭ Peregrinus


    I'm not sure that Justin Barrett being unfavourably criticised counts as the National Party "entering the mainstream". God knows he's been criticised often enough before.

    I think to be accepted as having entered the mainstream, a party has to built up a noticeable degree of support and regseter some successes. Not a lot of evidence that the National Party has done this.

    While Coinop may say that this is because the media denies them exposure, I think there are some more plausible reasons we could point to. Barrett announced the formation of the party in 2016 but did not get around to registering it until 2019. It did not participate in the local elections in 2019 or in the European elections in 2019, and the media section of its own website contains just one item that is dated less than "1 year ago". It doesn't come across as the most dynamic of organisations.

    Plus, the party's policy platform lines up to a striking degree with Barrett's own bugbears. If policy formation in the party is a collaborative process, it's a very well-concealed collaboration. Barrett himself has a history of falling out, sooner or later, with almost everyone he works with, so on past form you wouldn't finger him as the person most likely to lead this party into the mainstream.

    In short, thus far there is little evidence that this party is anything more than a personal vehicle for Barrett, and for those people who already agree with him about almost everything. It's unrealistic to expect a party so constituted to enter the mainstream; if that is what the party aspires to do then it needs to lift its organisational game, broaden its membership and its appeal, and avoid the impression that it is a one-man band. But, to be honest, I see no evidence that that is what the party aspires to do.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 98 ✭✭✭ Macytoby


    James Reynolds is known colloquially around Longford as “baba” because he still sucks his thumb. He has a very weird relationship with his mother, and they used old newspapers to wipe instead of toilet paper.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,335 ✭✭✭ tigger123


    coinop wrote: »
    Um, ok? Not sure why you're on a discussion forum. Safe to disregard your opinion then.



    I'm not sure you understood my point. SF were subject to state censorship for many years. The party was only allowed to flourish after the censorship was lifted. You can read more about Section 31 here. I predict the same for the NP. Put their ideas out there and let the people support or reject them on their own merit.

    Regarding the final part of your post:

    My Question: Do you understand why the average joe hasn't heard of the party?
    Your answer: Yes, I do. It's because they don't have any popular support.

    This makes no sense. Again, you don't understand. How can the people decide if they support them or not in the first place if they haven't heard of them?

    But they are putting their ideas out there, and people are rejecting them.

    If I want to start a Jedi Political Party, I can advertise online, hold street protests, hand out flyers and do whatever I can to get the message to people. I can even run in local and national elections and let people decide for themselves if I'm worth a vote.

    What I can't do is blame RTE for not putting me on the 6 o'clock news and having me debate against Leo on the tenants of my beliefs. That will only come if there's enough of a groundswell behind my party. And that's up to me and my supporters to organise.

    Nobody is entitled to coverage and exposure.

    It's like a young band saying 'if only we were on Jools Holland, everyone would buy our record'.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,267 ✭✭✭ DubInMeath


    Don't like Johnny foreigner, perhaps less if they happen to have the same skin colour, but only if their Catholic?

    Want to complain about people coming in and taking jobs that you wouldn't do in a heartbeat or because you are to fu*king thick to get the required qualifications to get the job?

    Don't like the fact that your life didn't turn out the way you thought it would and want to blame someone else?

    Don't like people having full health care?

    Want to see a Catholic dictatorship established while paying lip service to those that took part in the 1916 rising and war of independence, but who we would have informed on and who would most likely have taken a pot shot at us if we existed at the time?

    Want a party that spouts on about law and order but whose leadership are happy to be part of a group that assault the gardai?

    Then vote for the national party


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,546 ✭✭✭ Blaaz_


    coinop wrote: »
    Um, ok? Not sure why you're on a discussion forum. Safe to disregard your opinion then


    Im well able to discuss it,ive said their rethoric strikes me as british

    Old old sayings taught to people growing up is,burn everything british except their coal?



    Like you havnt given any reason why we should suddently trust people,who ape the british way of doing stuff???

    What if the national.party are a front for.mi5 (which i suspect they are,one main reasons i distrust them)we are letting british intelligence (lol misnomer) into ireland again,nothing is to be gained from incresed british influence in tge world


    Havnt the national.party,some links to.the orange order???


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,407 ✭✭✭✭ Eric Cartman


    DubInMeath wrote: »
    Don't like Johnny foreigner, perhaps less if they happen to have the same skin colour, but only if their Catholic?

    Want to complain about people coming in and taking jobs that you wouldn't do in a heartbeat or because you are to fu*king thick to get the required qualifications to get the job?

    Don't like the fact that your life didn't turn out the way you thought it would and want to blame someone else?

    Don't like people having full health care?

    Want to see a Catholic dictatorship established while paying lip service to those that took part in the 1916 rising and war of independence, but who we would have informed on and who would most likely have taken a pot shot at us if we existed at the time?

    Want a party that spouts on about law and order but whose leadership are happy to be part of a group that assault the gardai?

    Then vote for the national party

    If you remove the first 2 points its just a SF campaign ad also, very close to the NP in a lot of ways


  • Subscribers Posts: 35,997 ✭✭✭✭ sydthebeat


    The policies of Gemma O Doherty, the vile evil racist, have been readily rejected and rebuffed at the national and presidential elections.

    The same will be applied to the extreme far right fascist Justin barrett


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  • Registered Users Posts: 164 ✭✭ larva


    Ive never heard of the NP until reading this thread! Their website makes for some interesting reading. Not sure they are anything like UKIP. How impossibly hard it must be being a new party and trying to reach the electorate who are so ingrained with our current political institutions. Good luck to them


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