Anti cycling school policy

antimatterx

My school used to take peoples coats off them if the wasn't the school coat, even if it was in the depts of winter. It's ridicuolous carry on. The coat was about €80, and no help was offered.

TheBoyConor

Wanderer19 wrote: »

Get the principal to source hi-vis waistcoats with the school crest, and distribute them to cyclists - kids can be seen and the school can be identified.

Why does a student need to be identified as being from a particular school while on their way to school? What is the actual purpose of that?

That principal needs to get a bit of perspective and cop on. Threatening suspension over the non wearing of a school jacket? Lol, they would make themselves look ridiculous if they tried to do that.

Peregrine

The longer I'm gone from school, the more I recognise some of their rules as just power tripping.

antimatterx wrote: »

My school used to take peoples coats off them if the wasn't the school coat, even if it was in the depts of winter. It's ridicuolous carry on. The coat was about €80, and no help was offered.

My school used to take coats off you even if it was the school coat. You weren't allowed to wear any other coat into school except the poor but expensive school coat. However, it wasn't part of the official school uniform so you couldn't wear it in class. Jumpers only. If you wore it in class, the teacher wouldn't start until you took it off. The radiators were broken one day and we still had to take them off.

I didn't cycle to school but I can definitely imagine OP's cousin's situation happening in my old school.

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!

The uniform is a horrid baby poo green colour.

Wearing a hi Vis over the uniform is still not really sufficient as it doesn't protect against rain and no-one wants to be wet and smelly after cycling 10k and sitting in the uniform.

punisher5112

magicbastarder wrote: »

change school a couple of months before going into sixth year? what a useful suggestion.

But the rules aren't new...

Very smart reply from you isn't it...

magicbastarder

if by 'smart' you mean '100% accurate', i would agree with you there.

mr spuckler

punisher5112 wrote: »

But the rules aren't new...

Very smart reply from you isn't it...

Quoting from the OP;

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »

They have introduced a new school rule.

cletus

mr spuckler wrote: »

Quoting from the OP;

According to the quoted message from the school, it was a rule already in place

punisher5112

magicbastarder wrote: »

if by 'smart' you mean '100% accurate', i would agree with you there.

But this school and many others have this policy.

I don't see how a smart arse reply to me is on to be honest especially from a mod.

Sure hell when I was in school they had this.

It may well be they're trying to enforce it or have noticed a drop in those that comply.

magicbastarder

i was responding to your utterly impractical suggestion that a different school may be in order.

anyway, regarding whether the rule was in place or not, it certainly seems like it was a rule written without cycling in mind, and rather than examine how they might be able to encompass cycling, or modify it to account for the situations mentioned, they've just decided 'rulez iz rulez' and have just made life much more difficult for cyclists. exceptionally short sighted of them.

Newbie20

As a teacher myself, I have to say that these kind of rules wreck my head. It is usually a principal on a power trip and the annoying thing is that it’s the teachers that have to enforce the rules, not them, so we get the flack. I’ve been asked a few times by students what is the point of a certain rule and sure I don’t have an answer. All I can say is it is the rule and just get on with it or take it up with the principal.

A good few of the rules really don’t have a purpose, at least not one that is obvious to me. Students in my school used to not be allowed drink water but we got rid of that one because there was a load of teachers saying that it was healthy for you and we should be encouraging it. I said in a meeting that I wouldn’t be able to get through the day myself without drinking my bottle of water so why I would expect the students to go without.

A lot of “uniform” issues are just petty little things that they should be allowed to wear anyway. If the teacher can’t see the purpose to the rule, you can be damn sure the student won’t see the point and it’s very irritating trying to enforce rules that you yourself think are stupid. Usually we try and bring some of these rules up for discussion at the end of the year and we normally are told we will try easing “Rule A” next year and see how we get on. Or “we will come back to them, we need to get through this policy” or something like that.

TheAnalyst_

That is ****ed. Irish schools are little fascist camps sometimes.

I've had experience of European schools and its incredible the contrast. What is the point in uniforms as well? Letting kids where normal clothes causes zero issues in my direct experience.

Hurrache

Normal clothes can create such pressure on both kids and parents. A uniform, imo, is much better.

TheAnalyst_

Hurrache wrote: »

Normal clothes can create such pressure on both kids and parents. A uniform, imo, is much better.

I've heard that all my life and then actually experienced the reality.
It doesn't in any way. its never mentionedby parents. Irish people are just weird.

GinSoaked

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

I've heard that all my life and then actually experienced the reality.
It doesn't in any way. its never mentionedby parents. Irish people are just weird.

But it is mentioned by kids.

buffalo

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

I've heard that all my life and then actually experienced the reality.
It doesn't in any way. its never mentionedby parents. Irish people are just weird.

I experienced it as school kid. And we had a uniform, so I don't like to think how much worse it wasn't limited to just shoes and tracksuits for PE.

Hurrache

I've never experiences lots of things, doesn't mean they don't exist. What's weird is to think otherwise

Seve OB

Hurrache wrote: »

Normal clothes can create such pressure on both kids and parents. A uniform, imo, is much better.

i don't think that anyone is disputing that and it is clearly not the point here.

the point is that the uniform is not suitable attire for the means of transport so the student is wearing appropriate clothing and changing into the uniform on arrival to the school.

the school are being unreasonable in demanding the student wears what essentially is dangerous clothing while cycling their bike

smacl

Hurrache wrote: »

Normal clothes can create such pressure on both kids and parents. A uniform, imo, is much better.

Eldest went to a secondary school with a uniform, youngest is still going to one without a uniform but with a dress code. Both girls. Our experience is that no uniform is the far better option in terms being able dress for the weather, for cycling and for not being under pressure to get uniforms washed.

Flickerfusion

Hurrache wrote: »

Normal clothes can create such pressure on both kids and parents. A uniform, imo, is much better.

It’s funny how it doesn’t seem to create any such issues elsewhere in Europe or the US. It seems to be just a Victorian hangover, along with the endless justifications for single gender schools.

It probably made some logical sense when schools were basically training people to go into a rigid, keep your head down type workforce back in the industrial revolution. In the modern era, we have an economy that’s entirely based on creativity and ideas, yet we have schools that look like they’re inspired by Dickensian novels and are just obsessed with petty rules and removing as much autonomy as they can.

Then you’ve the single gender aspect and the deeply religious aspect.

It’s only normal to us because that’s how most of us experienced school.

And don’t get me started on the fact that we’ve one school from 12 to 18. Most countries have a second level split in two. So you’ve a Junior High / College (12-16) and 16 to 18 is in a high school / lycée, often with bigger scale and vastly better subject choice and facilites than good see here. You also her specialisms like lycées that focus on way science and tech or arts and have really amazing options. Here you’re treated like a child until you’re 18 and it’s a uniform wearing, rule bound patronising setup often with very limited subject options.

I remember being told if I wanted to do art, I would have to drop Higher Level Maths because “art is for non academic students and that’s how we timetable it.”

However, this is a cycling forum and I guess that’s another debate but it does cross over into cycling and policy on transport.

Because Irish schools seem to be quite separate from the community - they’re basically all state funded but privately operated, with the exception of ETB schools. The majority of them are operated by religious communities, except Educate Together.

So local government typically has no involvement in them and then because they’re more about satisfying the needs of sponsors than education you have the unusual situation where kids are going to schools all over cities for reasons of lack of places, religious ethos, gender and just plain snobbery in a lot of cases.

The end result is Ireland has a weird mess where the cities have tens of thousands of kids shuffling around in every direction, rather than just going to their local school district and families have to cope with girls going to one school, guys to another etc.

That makes public transport / schools transport extremely messy.

donspeekinglesh

Flickerfusion wrote: »

And don’t get me started on the fact that we’ve one school from 12 to 18. Most countries have a second level split in two. So you’ve a Junior High / College (12-16) and 16 to 18 is in a high school / lycée, often with bigger scale and vastly better subject choice and facilites than good see here.

The Department refuse any opportunity to change this (because it hasn't been done before apparently), so Maynooth are getting two large, almost completely separate, 1st-6th year secondary schools on the same site. Instead of the junior cycle and senior cycle school the parents and local community wanted. It's stupid.

Hurrache

Seve OB wrote: »

i don't think that anyone is disputing that and it is clearly not the point here.

the point is that the uniform is not suitable attire for the means of transport so the student is wearing appropriate clothing and changing into the uniform on arrival to the school.

the school are being unreasonable in demanding the student wears what essentially is dangerous clothing while cycling their bike

I think you're picking up what I said wrong. We're in agreement that the uniform is not suitable for commuting, I said it was a dumb policy on the first page of the
thread.

The post you're quoting is in relation to not having uniforms at all in schools.

Flickerfusion wrote: »

It’s funny how it doesn’t seem to create any such issues elsewhere in Europe or the US. It seems to be just a Victorian hangover, along with the endless justifications for single gender schools.

Can't speak for Europe, but I've lived in America and it does put pressure on kids and families. Simple case being you're wearing the wrong trainers, probably the most expensive item of clothing a kid would wear to school.

Brush it off bizarrely as a Victorian throwback all you want, but it is an issue for kids to fit in with the 'right' crowd.

Treppen

Last thing this thread needs is a debate on the merits of school uniform versus non uniform.

Just ignore it OP.

Flickerfusion

It’s very hard to ignore when you’ve a principal or teachers who will make your kid’s life misery because of their choice or transport to school. Or, who will tell them not to wear safety equipment for rule bound aesthetic reasons.

I have absolutely no idea how girls in those Dublin schools with the skirts down to the ground could possibly cycle, for example.

Most schools don’t have changing facilities that are accessible to students who cycle either.

I would suspect many of them never even considered it.

I mean in my own school and it’s a quite few years ago now, but I remember struggling to even get them to stamp the form that was needed to get a student ticket for the bus.

I would suspect most schools in Ireland don’t have a transport policy at all and have never really considered their impact on traffic or the environment.

If you consider the way the traffic in the cities here becomes exponentially worse once the schools go back in September, it’s fairly obvious that they are one or the single biggest contributors to congestion and air pollution, yet we do nothing about it, which is nuts as they’re also one of the easiest to adapt and manage and address as they’re large populations of people all doing the same thing at the same time.

magicbastarder

Flickerfusion wrote: »

I have absolutely no idea how girls in those Dublin schools with the skirts down to the ground could possibly cycle, for example.

only 800 female secondary school students nationwide cycle to school.
there were just over 700 secondary schools in ireland in 2011, so an average of just over one student per school (there seem to be under one hundred boys only schools)

Seve OB

magicbastarder wrote: »

only 800 female secondary school students nationwide cycle to school.

a quick read of the first post in this thread is a prime example of why that is the case

Treppen

Flickerfusion wrote: »

It’s very hard to ignore when you’ve a principal or teachers who will make your kid’s life misery because of their choice or transport to school. Or, who will tell them not to wear safety equipment for rule bound aesthetic reasons.

I have absolutely no idea how girls in those Dublin schools with the skirts down to the ground could possibly cycle, for example.

Most schools don’t have changing facilities that are accessible to students who cycle either.

I would suspect many of them never even considered it.

I mean in my own school and it’s a quite few years ago now, but I remember struggling to even get them to stamp the form that was needed to get a student ticket for the bus.

I would suspect most schools in Ireland don’t have a transport policy at all and have never really considered their impact on traffic or the environment.

If you consider the way the traffic in the cities here becomes exponentially worse once the schools go back in September, it’s fairly obvious that they are one or the single biggest contributors to congestion and air pollution, yet we do nothing about it, which is nuts as they’re also one of the easiest to adapt and manage and address as they’re large populations of people all doing the same thing at the same time.

From the experience of the school I teach in there's a few students who cycle to school in non uniform and nothing is said. The letters requesting uniform on the journey to and from school are par for the course and repeated regularly, but I suspect that is targeted at students walking in or jumping out of the car at the gates. They are the most visible.

Basically, ignore the request and cycle fast to where the bikes are kept. Rather than go head-to-head it should be dealt through the Student Council or Parents Association, although if you start to upset the apple cart this way the Principal may respond in kind and go on an all out offensive at the school gates targeting the cyclists.

You could also go the positive and seek to include demand proper concessions for cyclists through the Active Schools Flag or Green Schools Flag, although probably not a battle for a 6th year with other concerns.

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!

Treppen wrote: »

Principal may respond in kind and go on an all out offensive at the school gates targeting the cyclists.

So by your own admission there is a lot of teacher-to-student bullying and intimidation?

I was only thinking back to my time at school. It was a cesspit of needless and petty rules.
I got detention once for having the temerity to take a quick sip of water mid-class because it somehow "disrupted the lesson".

I remember being asked to remove a daffodil I got from the Irish cancer society one morning ... because it wasn't "part of uniform".

I remember nipping in the front door one morning when there was a downpour like you'd see in the old testament, I was stopped just inside, given a bollocking and told to go back around to the students' entrance at the back. The teacher who kicked me out followed me on the inside around the perimeter and I arrived in the back door drenched.

I remember a fracas that ensued when a classmate, then 18, had her painkillers seized despite having a doctor's note because her doctor's note apparently had to be backed up by a parent's note too.

A diabetic kid (whichever one is the one you're born with), type 1 I think. Had to leave the class to eat his snack (usually a banana) to comply with the no eating in classroom rule. If he missed out on anything important they'd probably blame him for "not paying attention". :rolleyes:

I remember being in my final year, I missed two days due to being ill. I asked the teachers for material I missed out on and a few of them said I'd need a note from my parents to request the work I missed, because it's not up to me to ask for it. Dafuq??

We're going way off topic now though.

Treppen

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »

So by your own admission there is a lot of teacher-to-student bullying and intimidation?

I was only thinking back to my time at school. It was a cesspit of needless and petty rules.
I got detention once for having the temerity to take a quick sip of water mid-class because it somehow "disrupted the lesson".

I remember being asked to remove a daffodil I got from the Irish cancer society one morning ... because it wasn't "part of uniform".

I remember nipping in the front door one morning when there was a downpour like you'd see in the old testament, I was stopped just inside, given a bollocking and told to go back around to the students' entrance at the back. The teacher who kicked me out followed me on the inside around the perimeter and I arrived in the back door drenched.

I remember a fracas that ensued when a classmate, then 18, had her painkillers seized despite having a doctor's note because her doctor's note apparently had to be backed up by a parent's note too.

A diabetic kid (whichever one is the one you're born with), type 1 I think. Had to leave the class to eat his snack (usually a banana) to comply with the no eating in classroom rule.

We're going way off topic now though.

I never admitted or promoted that there is "a lot of teacher to student bullying" !! dunno where you got that.

I'm talking about the Principal BTW!

I'm a teacher and I cycle to school and lock my bike the same place as students, doesn't bother me one bit if they cycle in lookin like Billy Eilish, and I'd never tell them to wear the correct uniform, I'd like to make cycling as easy as possible. different story once they're in class though but in saying that I can give leeway when it requires and pick my battles.

Please don't turn this into a general uniform vs non-uniform debate, or a trip down cruel-teacher memory lane, we all got stories.

We should just assume that next year, for that 6th year student, the school isn't going to be cancelling school uniforms.

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!

In saying all that, there's no reason why the PE changing rooms can't be left open for cyclists.
Schools should be doing everything they can to encourage people to keep fit and reduce congestion.
My local secondary school is impassable during the morning and afternoon. Many of the kids live within a 2km radius.

It'll be interesting too see what happens in September when she goes back. She's adamant to keep cycling.

Students in the past have been accosted for wearing different coats on the WAY to school or a scarf if they were seen by a teacher on the way to school. I won't hold my breath.