Anti cycling school policy

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!

My cousin who's 18 is going into 6th year in September, hopefully. She usually cycles to school regardless of the weather and she'd remove her rain gear if she was wearing it and change out of her tracksuit in the toilets or if they were open, the PE changing rooms.

A few other people did this too who cycled from varying distances. About 10 or 15 in total. Not lots, but it's still good to see. The rest would be cycling from 1-2 km in their uniforms.

The school's principal sent out an annual news letter which they usually do every summer to recap the previous year's events, make announcements and clarify new rules etc and thank and acknowledge people who deserve it.

They have introduced a new school rule.

"It has been noted that pupils have been cycling to school in tracksuits or other cycling gear and wearing a coat other than the prescribed school coat and entering the school premises which must not be done as per the school rules.
Whilst we encourage cycling and keeping fit, we must insist on rigid adherence to the school's uniform policy going forward. As such, we must insist that all pupils are wearing full school uniform before they enter school grounds.
Failure to comply will result in detention and upto including suspension"

The above quote was manually type on a phone from a paper newsletter so there may be typos.

What a backwards step. If anything this'll discourage people from cycling and will probably introduce more cars from parents.
It'll probably impact the girls moreso.
There's no school bus and public transport is unreliable in the area.

endacl

Thanks for letting the internet know.

Hurrache

Don't mind the silly comment OP, some people have a requirement that the internet knows how cool they try to be.

It's a pretty dumb requirement to wear the uniform into the grounds itself when cycling in. I wonder if they apply it to those arriving to play a school team sport?

punisher5112

It's not an attack against cycling it's part of the norm across near all schools so children can be seen they are from the school and their safety too.


No big deal if there is an issue go to a school where there is no uniform.

Bubbaclaus

Best to just ignore it. She is 18 and the school will realise how ridiculous it is when everyone just ignores it.

Hurrache

punisher5112 wrote: »

It's not an attack against cycling it's part of the norm across near all schools so children can be seen they are from the school and their safety too.


No big deal if there is an issue go to a school where there is no uniform.

Very few schools I've dealt with have school coats, I can think of a handful of private ones and that's about it.

GinSoaked

Sounds like a private school and they can make up any rules they like.

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!

It's not a private school.
It's a public one btw.

My old secondary school (not the one in the OP) was a DEIS school and we had an €80 coat (I was in secondary from 2003-2008).

There was financial help for parents who couldn't afford the coat.

They had that same rule in my day in one of the girls schools (not private). It simply led to girls going to school without a coat at all rather than buy/wear the gaudy looking school ones.

magicbastarder

punisher5112 wrote: »

No big deal if there is an issue go to a school where there is no uniform.

change school a couple of months before going into sixth year? what a useful suggestion.

Seve OB

Cycle to school as normal.
Stop outside the gates.
Strip off the tracksuit/cycling gear.
Dress in the appropriate uniform before crossing the school boundary.

magicbastarder

Seve OB wrote: »

Cycle to school as normal.
Stop outside the gates.
Strip off the tracksuit/cycling gear.
Dress in the appropriate uniform before crossing the school boundary.

or else the parent of the child in question could ring the principal, and ask is this what the students cycling to school are expected to do.

or else ask 'are you preventing my child from cycling to school while wearing hi-vis, and are you willing to accept liability in case of any incidents?', might put it up to the principal.

Bubbaclaus

magicbastarder wrote: »

or else the parent of the child in question could ring the principal, and ask is this what the students cycling to school are expected to do.

or else ask 'are you preventing my child from cycling to school while wearing hi-vis, and are you willing to accept liability in case of any incidents?', might put it up to the principal.

The 'child' in this case is an 18 year old adult. No need for parent involvement.

Wanderer19

Get the principal to source hi-vis waistcoats with the school crest, and distribute them to cyclists - kids can be seen and the school can be identified.

jaxxx

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

The 'child' in this case is an 18 year old adult. No need for parent involvement.

Even if you're 50, you're still your parents child :pac:

magicbastarder

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

The 'child' in this case is an 18 year old adult. No need for parent involvement.

You mean the student speaking to the principal on this would carry as much clout as a parent doing so?

Breezer

Things appear to have moved on since my day, at least. We had to wear full uniform to and from school, not just in the grounds. There were teachers used to hand out punishments for seeing kids walking home wearing runners instead of formal shoes. Looking back it was ridiculous. This situation is also silly.

As your cousin is 18 and an adult, I would suggest she first attempt to raise this with the school principal via the proper channels. That may be some sort of student council, or by bringing it first to a class tutor or year head, or whatever the system in the school is.

However, as she is still a student, and there is a very one sided student/teacher power dynamic, she may not be listened to. In which case I would suggest a parent makes a polite call to the principal, and points out the likely negative consequences of this policy. There’s tons of stuff out there about teenage girls not exercising and how thats leads to obesity etc., which could be politely highlighted.

Hurrache

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They had that same rule in my day in one of the girls schools (not private). It simply led to girls going to school without a coat at all rather than buy/wear the gaudy looking school ones.

I always wondered why you see them not wearing coats in all sorts of weather, never crossed my mind as an explanation.

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!

magicbastarder wrote: »

or else the parent of the child in question could ring the principal, and ask is this what the students cycling to school are expected to do.

or else ask 'are you preventing my child from cycling to school while wearing hi-vis, and are you willing to accept liability in case of any incidents?', might put it up to the principal.

It's an absurd rule alright and it reeks of "control".
It even sounds ridiculous that the parents of an adult woman have to ring up and essentially beg the principal to let her cycle.

Ignoring the rule isn't really an option as someone suggested. Detention and suspension will be given out for infringement. The latter being more serious in sixth year.

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!

Wanderer19 wrote: »

Get the principal to source hi-vis waistcoats with the school crest, and distribute them to cyclists - kids can be seen and the school can be identified.

It's also an issue that she and other pupils aren't allowed to cross the school boundary in a tracksuit to get changed.

Once in a blue moon the PE changing rooms are open in the morning because they weren't locked by the teacher the previous day, other than that she has to get changed in a toilet cubicle.

Wishbone Ash

GinSoaked wrote: »

Sounds like a private school and they can make up any rules they like.

Not so. It's the other way around. My daughter attends a private girl's school. Parents who pay large fees have a lot more clout regarding school rules than parents of pupils in public schools.

magicbastarder

What is the normal uniform anyway? Skirts, or are trousers allowed?

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!

magicbastarder wrote: »

What is the normal uniform anyway? Skirts, or are trousers allowed?

Girls: Flat black shoes (specific ones), school knee socks, blouse and jumper and tie. The female vice principal dies spot checks to make sure girls aren't wearing pyjama bottoms or extra leggings on cold days.

Boys: Specific shoes, trousers, shirt, tie and jumper.

You're not allowed to remove any item of clothing including the jumper even during a hot day but that's for a different thread.

Bubbaclaus

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »

Girls: Flat black shoes (specific ones), school knee socks, blouse and jumper and tie. The female vice principal dies spot checks to make sure girls aren't wearing pyjama bottoms or extra leggings on cold days.

Boys: Specific shoes, trousers, shirt, tie and jumper.

You're not allowed to remove any item of clothing including the jumper even during a hot day but that's for a different thread.

Sounds like a bunch of busy bodies running that school.

byhookorbycrook

If the student is 18, she doesn’t need a parent to ring , she is an adult as already pointed out . You didn’t mention a skirt /trousers ?

Breezer

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »

Girls: Flat black shoes (specific ones), school knee socks, blouse and jumper and tie. The female vice principal dies spot checks to make sure girls aren't wearing pyjama bottoms or extra leggings on cold days.

Boys: Specific shoes, trousers, shirt, tie and jumper.

You're not allowed to remove any item of clothing including the jumper even during a hot day but that's for a different thread.

I can’t believe this sh1te still goes on in 2020.

Sorry, I know I’m OT, but as someone who doesn’t have kids and hasn’t had to think about this for 15 years, I’m genuinely shocked. I can see the point in uniforms, but this is just power tripping.

Edit: And this is why parents may need to ring, I think. Schools are not normal places where reasonable concerns can be raised and dealt with adult to adult. Could you imagine this happening in a workplace? Something strange happens some otherwise reasonable people when they enter a staff room and are given power over a bunch of other, younger people. Being 18 won’t change that.

I had loads of excellent teachers, I’ve friends who are teachers and are passionate about their jobs, but the profession seems to attract (or create) head cases more than most others.

magicbastarder

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

If the student is 18, she doesn’t need a parent to ring , she is an adult as already pointed out . You didn’t mention a skirt /trousers ?

Sounds like she doesn't need parent teacher meetings either?
We all know that a parent ringing would have much chance of being given a fair hearing than a pupil objecting.

r93kaey5p2izun

That's a disappointing decision from the school. I think the girl should write down her thoughts as to why this is an unreasonable decision and email to the principal, asking him/her to reconsider. If there is a Student Council she should contact them too. If there is a Green Schools coordinator she should contact them too. If there is no joy with the principal then she should formally write to the BOM.

karlitob

punisher5112 wrote: »

It's not an attack against cycling it's part of the norm across near all schools so children can be seen they are from the school and their safety too.


No big deal if there is an issue go to a school where there is no uniform.

What a stupid comment. How about the organisation who are funded by my tax contribution respect my fellow citizens who are being responsible citizens.

Who cares whether anyone knows that they are students of that school? How does that contribute to safety??

Mrs OBumble

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »

It's an absurd rule alright and it reeks of "control".
It even sounds ridiculous that the parents of an adult woman have to ring up and essentially beg the principal to let her cycle.

Ignoring the rule isn't really an option as someone suggested. Detention and suspension will be given out for infringement. The latter being more serious in sixth year.

Of course its about control: school is an institution for children and control is necessary.

And its not a new rule, simply enforcement of one which the young person and their parents knew about when they enrolled.

magicbastarder

What a bizarrely authoritarian point.

Breezer

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Of course its about control: school is an institution for children and control is necessary.

And its not a new rule, simply enforcement of one which the young person and their parents knew about when they enrolled.

School is also supposed to be a place where people are educated, including in how to look after their bodies, and in how to question authority in a reasonable way, and contribute and shape the society in which they live.

Of course there needs to be some control over children, but really this is nuts. We’re talking about a young woman wearing appropriate clothes for one situation, arriving at her destination, changing into clothes appropriate to the next situation, and wanting to not do so at the side of a road in all weathers. It’s not exactly free for all anarchy.

No harm in the student raising the issue. Although you’re right, there is a bit of an institutional mindset by the looks of things, so I think parents will more than likely need to get involved if it’s to go anywhere.

cletus

It's not anarchy, but it is about implementing rules across the board. It's very difficult in a school situation to make allowances in the rules for one student, or a specific group of students.

Kids at that age have a finely honed sense of right and wrong, and if this girl is allowed to l break rules that were, apparently, in place prior to this, you invite a host of other kids attempting the same because "she was allowed to, sir"

Uniforms are a constant battleground, and if kids see any opportunity to skirt the uniform rules they will.

It's one of these cases where a rule that is implemented for all students doesn't suit a very small group, but that's life, unfortunately.

magicbastarder

It's not rocket science to put in a clear cut exception for cyclists though.

cletus

magicbastarder wrote: »

It's not rocket science to put in a clear cut exception for cyclists though.

In my experience, regardless of how well worded and explicit the exemption would be, you'll have parents and students in arguing the odds that if so and so can do it, my Johnny can too.

It's not worth the hassle from an administrative standpoint, so the easiest thing is a blanket rule that everyone wears the full uniform all the time

Breezer

magicbastarder wrote: »

It's not rocket science to put in a clear cut exception for cyclists though.

The rule appears to be that uniforms must be worn on the grounds. Allow all students to arrive to school in good time and immediately change if necessary. It’s students’ responsibility to ensure they have enough time to do this before class. Done.

World gone mad! There’s a childhood obesity problem in western countries and this numb-nuts is worried about the clothes people are wearing when cycling- what a 24 carrot plonker.

saccades

This would piss me right off - proper go around and makes things worse.

As much as my kids school is a pisstake with the number of rules, they class the gym kit as school uniform.


My missus doesn't let me talk to the teachers though.

Wishbone Ash

Breezer wrote: »

..Allow all students to arrive to school in good time and immediately change if necessary...

But they ideally have to access a school building to change. Therefore they have already entered the school grounds. It wouldn't be appropriate to change at the school gates.

Bubbaclaus

magicbastarder wrote: »

Sounds like she doesn't need parent teacher meetings either?
We all know that a parent ringing would have much chance of being given a fair hearing than a pupil objecting.

In my school the parent teacher meetings stopped once the pupil turned 18. At that stage they were legally an adult themselves so what would there be a parent teacher meeting for?

I assumed that was the same everywhere.

Wishbone Ash

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

In my school the parent teacher meetings stopped once the pupil turned 18. At that stage they were legally an adult themselves so what would there be a parent teacher meeting for?

I assumed that was the same everywhere.

When I applied for my first real job, the application form had to be signed by a parent/guardian even though I was over 18. A girl who started with me was married with children and had to get hers signed too.

spurious

Go back to school when they are open.
In a calm manner, ask for an appointment with the Principal.
Discuss the issue like adults.

Flickerfusion

Sounds like the usual standard of petty ridiculousness that goes on in Irish schools.

We used to have a teacher standing there looking to see if anyone has a printed T-shirt that might be vaguely visible through your shirt.

I also remember being made take my socks off and spend a day with none on because they were striped and I got endless abuse over stubble, which I wasn’t able to help in 5th and 6th year. I’ve pale skin and dark hair and no matter how much I shaved one teacher kept giving me hell about it.

I wore suede black shoes to school because I couldn’t get anything else easily as I had big feet and the principal handed me shoe polish and made me coat the suede which wrecked my shoes and I only had those or runners as we didn’t have the budget and the aim was that I could use them for both school and casual wear.

I also went to school on the continent too and frankly, Irish schools are run like prisons in comparison. OK they don’t hit you anymore but they certainly were a world of petty rules, lines and arbitrary, often grossly unfair enforcement. We seem to have never really gotten over the authoritarian approach to schooling.

Sorry Ireland but the schools here are very weird and most of you don’t realise it because you’ve never been to school anywhere else.

The cycling thing doesn’t surprise me at all. There are plenty in the education system here who would only care that the uniform is worn correctly. Health, the environment, personal safety, education etc is all secondary to that objective.

Welcome to boot camp!

magicbastarder

I was the first person in our school to wear a bike helmet. It once disappeared from my bag in German class and ended up in the head of the class joker and was confiscated. I went up at the end of the class to ask for it back and was refused because 'you know school policy is not too allow cycle helmets into class' . To be fair, me laughing at the teacher for saying that didn't help my cause.

Flickerfusion

And the lesson learnt from that: humour is banned? Rules will be enforced entirely arbitrarily and unfairly?

You’d wonder sometimes.

What gets me on the transport issues here is how dramatically bad the impact of schools going back is every year.

They flatly refuse to engage on issues like proper drop off points, school cycling schemes and school transit.

I mean if you look at the cluster of schools in the middle of Cork City, all of which are a short walk to public transit, why is there an hour long traffic jam through all the streets leading to them every week day morning 9 months a year?

There’s talk but nothing is ever done to address the situation, yet the same schools will be lauding all sorts of environmental policies like recycling.

karlitob

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Of course its about control: school is an institution for children and control is necessary.

And its not a new rule, simply enforcement of one which the young person and their parents knew about when they enrolled.

Crazy comment.

It’s a school. A place of learning, a place to enjoy, a place that you meet your friends, some for life perhaps.

Children aren’t a different species you know. If I can change into my uniform at work after I cycle, then why can’t this adult (or any child). My boss needs ‘control’ also.

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!

Flickerfusion wrote: »

Sounds like the usual standard of petty ridiculousness that goes on in Irish schools.

We used to have a teacher standing there looking to see if anyone has a printed T-shirt that might be vaguely visible through your shirt.

I also remember being made take my socks off and spend a day with none on because they were striped and I got endless abuse over stubble, which I wasn’t able to help in 5th and 6th year. I’ve pale skin and dark hair and no matter how much I shaved one teacher kept giving me hell about it.

I wore suede black shoes to school because I couldn’t get anything else easily as I had big feet and the principal handed me shoe polish and made me coat the suede which wrecked my shoes and I only had those or runners as we didn’t have the budget and the aim was that I could use them for both school and casual wear.

I also went to school on the continent too and frankly, Irish schools are run like prisons in comparison. OK they don’t hit you anymore but they certainly were a world of petty rules, lines and arbitrary, often grossly unfair enforcement. We seem to have never really gotten over the authoritarian approach to schooling.

Sorry Ireland but the schools here are very weird and most of you don’t realise it because you’ve never been to school anywhere else.

The cycling thing doesn’t surprise me at all. There are plenty in the education system here who would only care that the uniform is worn correctly. Health, the environment, personal safety, education etc is all secondary to that objective.

Welcome to boot camp!

May I ask which specific country?

I lived in the Netherlands. I knew people who attended their version of secondary school.
No uniforms and teachers were addressed on a first name basis. You could sip on a water bottle throughout class.

Chaos did not ensue.

The sky didn't fall down.

Sipping water would lead to confiscation of it in my school. Single use bottles were binned immediately and reusable ones were kept until a parent picked it up.

Over 18's still had to get parents permission for absence and notes sent home for missing homework.

Hurrache

karlitob wrote: »

Crazy comment.

It’s a school. A place of learning, a place to enjoy, a place that you meet your friends, some for life perhaps.

Children aren’t a different species you know. If I can change into my uniform at work after I cycle, then why can’t this adult (or any child). My boss needs ‘control’ also.

Formal wear in my office, those that cycle always get changed when arriving at and when leaving the building. Anarchists so we are.

Wishbone Ash

Flickerfusion wrote: »

...I also remember being made take my socks off and spend a day with none on because they were striped and I got endless abuse over stubble...

Proper order. Legs should be shaved daily. And your socks were probably the wrong height as well as being striped.

buffalo

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

But they ideally have to access a school building to change. Therefore they have already entered the school grounds. It wouldn't be appropriate to change at the school gates.

As I heard recently, 'be the change you want to ban in the world'. If this were my workplace, I'd stop right outside the gates, strip down as much as my dignity would allow and then change into the uniform, all the while taking my time about it. If anyone questioned it, I would say that my boss/principal said I had to change outside the gates.

Obviously this is not always be an appropriate form of protest, and anyway the next rule would probably be that uniform must be worn on the way to school.

P_1

Fostering car dependency based on an aesthetic. That is just so depressingly Irish and predictable